Comparing Afshin Ghotbi with Ali Daei

[smanhoobi]

Hi all,
In an era when football in Iran does not deserve any attention, there are still things that may make us think.

I started to track coaching performances since Daei took over. The following two graphs explains quite a bit in terms of differences ( ofcourse so far) between our last two coaches.

Ali Daei:


Afshin Ghotbi:


While Ali Daei struggled getting results in the seond half, in the first 7 games, Afshin Ghotbi seems to be doing much better.

What does that indicate?
Perhaps, it indicates "experience" in reading the game. Usually experienced coahes do much better in the seond half of the games.

Dont get me wrong though. I dont say Afshin Ghotbi is a better coach. His results so far are not satisfatory. But what is apparent so far is what we need to consider when discussing coaches and often times bashing them.

I at least say, Afshin Ghotbi knows football. Only time will tell how he can use this with our lazy players to improve his overall performance.

What do you think?

[yashar_fasihnia]

avalan ke salam soheil jan!
long time, good to see u still remember us

in general, its always good to look at matters from different perspective and not always just go with the tide. i myself am one of those people who doesnt like to just follow the direction of the wind...


while i totally agree with u that experienced coaches usually get better results in the 2nd half, we must also not forget Daei's team consisted majorly of a group of youngsters who will be wearing our TM jerseys for the coming few years. so the role of experience in the players also should not be forgotten. and the more experienced players a team has, the more mature the team plays in the 2nd half and can control the game. the ability to dictate the rythm of a game on the opponent is easier with experienced players, specially in the second half when the coach has to make decisions based on the circumstances of the game and the score.

another way to look at things is that 1st half, ghotbi seems to have been poor. this can indicate that ghotbi's analysis of the opponent and his team arrangement has been inferior to daei's? and if this is true, one would expect more from ghotbi who has been analysing opponents for years with the most updated softwares and under the most famous coaches?

another thing i feel about these 2 coaches is that they are on 2 extreme ends.
one is or rather was relying on our youth way to much and was trying to make too fast a transition from our current TM generation to the next.
the other relying too much on popular players from popular teams and a lot of oldies or hyped up players and in essence, not considering much of a generation change in the team.


now do u mind labelling ur graphs a bit, so i can atleast understand wat i myself am talking about?
u have drawn a graph of wat exactly? the minute in which we have scored against the number of games coached by each TM coach? if that is the case, then shouldnt the graph dive steep down to 0 in the middle as well when TM failed to score in some games? why does the 1st half for daei and 2nd half for ghotbi start from minute 35 (or watever y-axis represents)?? i dont understand the y-axis and how it relates to the graph of the 2 halves...

overall at the moment,...i really dont feel we have made any improvement from daei to ghotbi. in other words, ghotbi knows football as much as daei knows, if not less.
some might argue that daei got 6 points in 5 games and ghotbi got 5 points in 3 games but we can also argue ghotbi didnt get to play saudi arabia at all and who knows if he would have done any better against them?. he played 2 koreas which he had years of experience with and UAE while daei played them + 2 times saudi arabia. or another argument can be that ghotbi got 5 points in the 3 games he played, while daei also got 5 games in the first 3 games as well. daei beat a stronger north korea(compared to UAE) at home while drawing away to saudi arabia and south korea at home. ghotbi beat the weakest team - UAE and drew with the 2 koreas away.

however, in 5 to 6 years form now if daei continues coaching and gaining experience, i feel he will be better than ghotbi. daei has been through a very rough phase the past few years when it comes to popularity among iranian fans and he needs to redeem himself and this needs time plus his committment to coach at club level and work his way up. i dont think ghotbi will last very long in our football. if he wins the asian cup in 2011 like he promised, then we might seem him in iran and our football but if he doesnt (Which i think will be the case), then i dont think he will remain in iran or get any coaching job in iran anymore...

[maij]

Soheil Agha Gol , ba araz salam va Khair Maghdam.


In term of statistics , which I am a firm believer in , the results indicator shows similar pattern on both sides. Both the coaches did not start very well and needed time to settle down.

My take on this issue is that neither Daei nor Ghotbi were ready to take the coaching job. Daei , due to his experience and exposure in Europe was a better candidate from the credential side , not necessarily on the competence point.

Ghotbi's short managerial stint and lack of footballing pedigree made him even worse choice for Team Melli , but I guess the passionate and highly emotional Iranians hailed his appointment due to reasons that has little to do with logic and sanity.

In general , one mistake led to another and we are in a situation , which youy rightly put as NOT deserving any attention.

The more serious concern though is .........There is no bright light at the end of the tunnel.

[El Piebe De Oro]

i am sorry to interfer, it is nice to read you talking football and stats, but let's be real does this man with nice phrases and smooth talkings deserves really to sit on the bench of a National team , Iran ot other?
this guy 2 years ago was like just a camera holder, good things happens, just look at Morinho carrer, but this guy is just nothing, really nothing.

[El Piebe De Oro]

at least with Ali Daei we have some prouds with us, people knew us, even were scared of us, now we do not have team, players, proud just nothing, just bunch of loosers that do not deserve to wear this jersey.
we are overreacting and overranking players like Heydari and stuff, look just at him he is like 40 kilos, look at Khalatbari, Kaebi, off course you can find small players, quick ones, technical ones, but these guys they are too weak , you cannot have 3-4 players like that in a team, the football with 10 tinny guys is over, we cannot compete anymore, this is why these guys are just to weak not good enough when they go on tests in Europe, they are immediatlt send back..
I am soory there is really nothing to talk about so graphs and stuff....

[Adesor Vafaseya]

in direct comparison, as coaches:

Ghotbi > Daei by miles.

[Keshwardoost]

Id say Daei is the one that has far better potential as a coach then Ghotbi whom already is at his peak.
But, as for the moment, Ghotbi may be the better one on his experience with handlting media and other surrounding factors and so on. (not by much though)




Those believes aside, id still go with Daei as TM coach everyday over Ghotbi, think his style of play was pretty good, would like to se it develope over some years and let him continue his buildup of the team, it had much more potential in my opinion.

[teammelli1]

too early to compare the two coaches. Ali Daei was a coach for nearly a year. it hasnt been 8 months since Ghotbi took over. Plus, under Daei Iran played multiple games. But under Ghotbi I think it has been around 15 total maybe. So it is too early to judge the coaches. I say we wait till after AFC 2011.

[KamyarM]

i just like Ghotbi more.

[persepolisfan]

i like daei a lot more