Foreign or national coach ?!

[maij]

The discussion of foreign coach versus national in Iran will continue unabated for many years to come. As far as PFDC is concerned, I feel that a slight majority tend support the idea of appointing a well known foreign coach to lead Team Melli.

I have not been in favor of a foreign coach in Iran for many reasons. One reason is my firm belief that any country that aspires to progress in football , MUST establish and develop a good foundation of national coaches at club and national level.
Based on this factor alone, I am offering yet another proof that the foreign coaches are NOT necessarily the formula for assured success and national coaches can excel and exceed the performance and results achieved under foreigners. Looking at the Asian representative in FIFA World Cup 2010 and their coaches:

Japan : Takeshi OKADA
Korea Rep. : HUH Jung Moo
Australia : Pim VERBEEK (Dutch)
Korea DPR.: KIM Jong Hun

We find that three out of the 4 Asian teams are managed and coached by nationals. Australia, which has the least of the soccer foundations compared to the others, has historically relied on foreign coaches through the years out of necessity.

The surprise is that these national coaches have achieved a milestone that no foreign coaches have achieved with the Asian teams in the World Cup (exception of WC2002 at home). It is very evident that national coaches have the abilities, what they seriously lack in some countries, like Iran, is the support and support takes many forms.


I rest my case, but the debate is open.

[persianallstars]

simply because a foreign coach wants to implement his thoughts on football culture and his international experience to Iranian football. It's way better to have an experienced domestic coach (England is a good example --> Capello failed) rather than a foreigner who simply doesn't understand the culture and some qualities of the players.

Josef Hickersberger (former Austrian NT headcoach, champion with many clubs) was signed by Bahrain Football Federation because he is familiar with Arab soccer style and he has perfectly adapted himself to Arabian soccer and the players. Unfortunately we do not have such a coach, it was not Daei, it won't be Ghalenoie and Ghotbi...... well get an idea of him.

[xoraster]

Its no point comparing Japanese and Korean coaches to Iranian because

A: Through the years, many great foreign coaches such as Wenger, Hiddink, Advoocat, Zico have worked with Japanese\Korean players\coaches and shared their knowledge. Besides many of their top clubs are coached by foreign coaches.

B. Japan and Korea have extensive and high level coaching programs where they send their coaches abroad, they still use their connection with the likes of Wenger and Zico to send their coaches to different courses, classes around the word. Their plan is to be less dependent on foreign coaches on a long term basis.

c: The foundation of Korean and Japanese national teams have been built by foreign coaches, most of the current Japanese players were developed by Troussier during his time as technical director with their youth teams. K


So, in regard to Iran, what exactly do we have?
Do we professional programs and long term planing in order to educate our coaches?
When a guy like Mansourian walks in and takes over a IPL team without taking a single course.

Are our players at least working with good foreign coaches on club level where they are learning the ABC of football?

At some level, youth, club, Omid or TM level, players need to be exposed to some level of good, modern professional coaching, physio, dietist etc.

If Peyrovani is coaching OMid, Mazloumi Esteghlal and lets say GN Team Melli, then where and when are the players going to be exposed to modern coaching and training?

Also, if coaches such as Mazloumi, GN, MK, Peyrovani, Ghotbi are good enough, then why are Iranian players so behing when it comes to physics, tactics and even technique?
I mean, if the current coaches are good, at least our players should match Korea and Japan in terms of tactical and physical ability.

Right now, Iranian football is truly in the hands of Iranian coaches, from almost every club in IPL and Azadegan to all of our national teams and besides U16 team, we are not seeing and results or developmenst at ANY LEVEL, club or country.

So, the question is not that we need ONE foreign coach for TM but like Korea and Japan, we need over 50-100 foreign coaches at all level, youth, omid, physio, analyzer, goalkeeper coaxhes sperad acroos teams in IPL and Azadegan, their youth teams and Omid teams.

[maij]

Its no point comparing Japanese and Korean coaches to Iranian because

A: Through the years, many great foreign coaches such as Wenger, Hiddink, Advoocat, Zico......................................

What I can summarize from your thoughts is that a country MUST have a systematic development for local coaches . is that right ?

If it is , then I agree 110%.

Now , let us look at some facts.

AFC and FIFA have regular coaches training seminars , workshops and camps. Many Iranian coaches have actually participated in them. The last one that was held in Tehran , was conducted by who became a coach in Team Melli at a later stage. Iran has been sending coaches for training since the seventies.

In these courses , the curriculum is standard for all nationalities. Although coaching certificate is essential , such courses does not prepare a coach for excellence or makes the attendee a distinguished coach. This is up to the individual's talent.


To have a productive foreign coach , who can achieve success , championship and deliver, the grounds must be set solid. A foreign TM coach , does not have the time , the capability or the resources to go to each club and teach/train the TM players on his tactics . Furthermore , a foreign TM coaches DOES NOT teach skills like how to dribble like Messi or be a goalkeeper like Buffon . His task is limited to tactics and that in itself is another long discussion.

Some foreign coaches succeed , some fail miserably. There is no set formula or text book for such. There are however , varying circumstances and as far as I am concerned, Iran at this stage , is not ready foe a foreign coach.
Regardless .....I can compare Iran to Korea , Japan , Maldives and anywhere you like when saying that a Local coach , who has been nourished and developed and most essentially , has the required skills , CAN match or exceed a foreign coach achievements.

[xoraster]

What I can summarize from your thoughts is that a country MUST have a systematic development for local coaches . is that right ?

If it is , then I agree 110%.

Now , let us look at some facts.

AFC and FIFA have regular coaches training seminars , workshops and camps. Many Iranian coaches have actually participated in them. The last one that was held in Tehran , was conducted by who became a coach in Team Melli at a later stage. Iran has been sending coaches for training since the seventies.

In these courses , the curriculum is standard for all nationalities. Although coaching certificate is essential , such courses does not prepare a coach for excellence or makes the attendee a distinguished coach. This is up to the individual's talent.


To have a productive foreign coach , who can achieve success , championship and deliver, the grounds must be set solid. A foreign TM coach , does not have the time , the capability or the resources to go to each club and teach/train the TM players on his tactics . Furthermore , a foreign TM coaches DOES NOT teach skills like how to dribble like Messi or be a goalkeeper like Buffon . His task is limited to tactics and that in itself is another long discussion.

Some foreign coaches succeed , some fail miserably. There is no set formula or text book for such. There are however , varying circumstances and as far as I am concerned, Iran at this stage , is not ready foe a foreign coach.
Regardless .....I can compare Iran to Korea , Japan , Maldives and anywhere you like when saying that a Local coach , who has been nourished and developed and most essentially , has the required skills , CAN match or exceed a foreign coach achievements.

I am not only talking about the AFC\FIFA workshops because most of the time, thats what they are, plain workshops.

Many countries have made coqaching similar to getting a university degree and even made it as a university course.


Its a little bit like saying well, Iran has coaching classes, so does Italy so I guess there is no diference.

Or it would be like Hungary saying, look at Germany, Holland and Spain, doing well with local coaches in the WC, I guess that means that we dont need foreign coaches.


I also support Iranian coaches and in order ti improve, it is imperative that Iranian coaches to improve because we cannot only rely on foreign coaches.

BUT:
as long as the system is 100% corrupt and peole such as MK (SAIPA) and Ahmadzadeh (Peykan) get their jobbs because they know the president and a un educated player like Mansourian just sits on an IPL bench, one cannot support this characters.

I support hard working Iranian coaches such as Alidoosti or even Ebrahimzadeh who has proven that he can get result even outside of Iran.

But I acannot support people such as Mansurian, Ziaei, MK because they are Iranian.

As I said, if you look at football in Korea, Japan and Saudi, you see that there are over 50-100 foreign coaches (assistants, physios, goalkepper coaches), from U16 teams of clubs such as Al Hilal, to main clubs, Omid teams etc, youth developers, advisors to FA, technical directors etc.

In Iran, maybe we have 5-6 foreign coaches over all, in all categories. And people STILL make a bid deal out of it, as if every single category in Iran is dominated by foreign coaches.

Again, the issue is not about having ONE foreign coach but rather importing over 50-100 good coaches, youth coaches, talent developers, asst coaches, physios, dietists, analyzers and having them work next to 300-400 Iranian coaches.

At the same time, implementing good courses for young coaches while getting rid of the same old boring names such az Yavari, korkebandi, MK, Ahmadzadeh, Karimi.

For now, these coaches have never either played or coaches in a fully professional environment and thus one cannot expect professional end result from them.

[Doctor DOOM]

personally, I'd love to see an iranian coach gain glory and trophies for us. but what's important is the PERFORMANCE only. as many say, it is not about the nationality of the coach, so much as his competence & capabilities.

the only thing that goes against vatani guys is that we have so few vatani coaches who satisfy the above criteria, so chances of you getting that criteria with the foreign ones are higher.

I agree with xoroaster's first post.
the reason foriegners ( the few capable ones, not all of them) dont fare well is that we want success too quick, too cheap, with little effort and as little infrastructure as possible.
that's making it almost impossible for anyone to succeed!
so the problem is OUR OWN outlook and culture, before anything else. as they say, "calibremoon balast" or in other words "kheili goshadim"

[zzgloo]

After watching the recent world cup........I am convinced, the single most important short coming in our football........is not IFF,nor is it IR,nor is etc,etc...

The single most important deficiency is " The Domestic/Local coaching ".!!!

The real job of any coach, is " TEACHING " !!!!

the player who changes three to four teams, should normaly get experinced from different style teachings .



...................................

1-Why our players , from youth to adults,do not develope to a better player?

2-Why our players can not shoot ? ( In general)

3-Why our players can not head the ball ?( In general )

4-Why our players can not control the ball ?

5-Why our players,seem to be hard to coach ? and seem to repeat thier past mistakes ?

6-Why our player's physic do not improve ?

7-why our players have no composure ?

8-Why our players' football psycology do not improve ?

9-why so many talents get waisted before giving fruits ?

10-Why is so hard to stablish playing organized, ( like japaneas or South Koreans ) ?

11-Why our players make so many wrong decisions on the field ?

Why ?, Why ? why ?..............................The answer to these questions do not corespond to the IFF,or IR, or system......
.................................................. ..................................................

The answer, is not with uneducated,academic or football,coaching ,,The answer, is with a new generation, of Educated individuals, such as : vahid Hashemian., whom have had coacing Aspiration, and desire to take coaching classes, and come to coach in IRAN, with a back ground of proffesional playing in Europe,and working under different styles of proffesional coachings ! .......

.................................................. .................................................. .

Untill that time.....we have no choice, but to hire forign coaches who can adapt to our system,....( Eastern Europeans perhaps )!,as our currant coaching system of a carocel of changing musical chaires among small number of domestic coaches,will not add any knowledge to thier uneducated back ground.




.

[Keshwardoost]

Agreed with Majii,

An idea:Why not a combination

Our Iranian Coaches would benefit of it and it would be easier for the foregin one to blend in and communicate..

Problem is that Iranian coaches (except Daei) (Ghotbi?)refuses to work with foregin coaches as assistants to themselves, and most foregin coaches that wants to be head coach brings their own assistant and so on..

But theoretically I would like the idea of a Iranian Headcoach/Foregin assistant or Foregin Headcoach/Iranian assistant..
They should offcource have to know eachother before they do teamwork though or else it will be alot of problems.. So really the only ones that know anybody outside iran/arabestan is Daei and Ghotbi (?)


# Our single and only problem is: SOLID DEFENCE OVER 90 MINUTES + ADDED TIME
- Today its to much "Hawaii - soccer on the beech Defence" in almost every game..

[toofan]

wont differ much.the system is wrong.

[Nokhodi]

South Korea and Japan both had coaches who had already been the head coach at some other time and fired. Do you think any of us, or our fans, media and players would accept a failed coach to come and head the national team? Do you know what would happen in 10 years if Daei became head coach again, or GN, or MK?

Also sort of off topic, but does anyone else see the massive similarities in football culture between Iran and England? Impatient fans, Poor showings in important games, over hyped national teams...

[Hadi]

at this point it doesnt really matter who is Iran's coach.

[maij]

I am not only talking about the AFC\FIFA workshops because most of the time, thats what they are, plain workshops.

Many countries have made coqaching similar to getting a university degree and even made it as a university course. .

Give me a real life example of the Soccer universities. All my life , I have never heard of such thing as Soccer University Degree , I am not saying it does not exist. But since you know about it , then let us know.

Its a little bit like saying well, Iran has coaching classes, so does Italy so I guess there is no diference.

Or it would be like Hungary saying, look at Germany, Holland and Spain, doing well with local coaches in the WC, I guess that means that we dont need foreign coaches.

I don't think I have said anything like that, but regardless....

Football is performing art. Singers , Artists , footballers , athletes need basic training , but talents CANNOT BE TAUGHT. You can have a thousand university in the world , it does not guarantee producing mass players like Messi or Christiano Ronaldo are produce coaches such as Wenger or Mourinho. If you do not understand this concept or believe in it , there is not much point in taking this discussion any further.

But just one point to disprove your argument about the foreign element. How did Iraq , a warn torn country which has not played a single match in its own soil for decades , managed to win the Asian Cup 2007 while the Might and the billionaires of Saudi Arabia, Korea, Japan and Australia failed to do that ?


Have you been to Africa ? Have you seen the way they organize football there ? it is so chaotic to a degree which makes Iran looks pretty civilized and good in organization....And yet the Africans produce world class players at a remarkable rate !

I also support Iranian coaches and in order ti improve, it is imperative that Iranian coaches to improve because we cannot only rely on foreign coaches.

BUT:
as long as the system is 100% corrupt and peole such as MK (SAIPA) and Ahmadzadeh (Peykan) get their jobbs because they know the president and a un educated player like Mansourian just sits on an IPL bench, one cannot support this characters.

I support hard working Iranian coaches such as Alidoosti or even Ebrahimzadeh who has proven that he can get result even outside of Iran.

But I acannot support people such as Mansurian, Ziaei, MK because they are Iranian.

In one hand , you are telling me that the system in Iran is 100% corrupt ( which I think is a bit excessive and don't agree with you) , however , you expect foreign coaches to work in this corrupt system and deliver results !!!

How can that be ?

Isn't that a contradictory remark? or do you think that we must ONLY have special breed of foreign coaches who can gel well with a corrupt system to be brought to the country and expect them to deliver?

As I said, if you look at football in Korea, Japan and Saudi, you see that there are over 50-100 foreign coaches (assistants, physios, goalkepper coaches), from U16 teams of clubs such as Al Hilal, to main clubs, Omid teams etc, youth developers, advisors to FA, technical directors etc.

In Iran, maybe we have 5-6 foreign coaches over all, in all categories. And people STILL make a bid deal out of it, as if every single category in Iran is dominated by foreign coaches.

Again, the issue is not about having ONE foreign coach but rather importing over 50-100 good coaches, youth coaches, talent developers, asst coaches, physios, dietists, analyzers and having them work next to 300-400 Iranian coaches.

At the same time, implementing good courses for young coaches while getting rid of the same old boring names such az Yavari, korkebandi, MK, Ahmadzadeh, Karimi.

For now, these coaches have never either played or coaches in a fully professional environment and thus one cannot expect professional end result from them.

In your previous post , you did not want to compare Iran with Korea, but now you are comparing them. ..OK

In Korea and Japan , there is a great wealth from private enterprise that supports sport and football. Giant industries that rule the world are behind them as none of these clubs are supported by tax payers money.

In Saudi Arabia a large chunk of the huge wealth from oil goes into the coffers of kings and princes who in turn channel some of it towards football. It is excessive wealth and it is also corrupt. Same thing applies to most of the Persian Gulf countries.

You cannot expect the government in Iran which own 99% of the sport clubs to channel the much needed money for the country and the economy so that people like you and me sit in front of the TV to say Bah ..bah..bah whenever Karimi dribbles a few Arab players !!!!

The bigger question remains.....

Why should Iran , under huge economical and political isolation , spend million on foreign coaches?

People do not live and die for football....there are other priorities in life ......

[maij]

South Korea and Japan both had coaches who had already been the head coach at some other time and fired. Do you think any of us, or our fans, media and players would accept a failed coach to come and head the national team? Do you know what would happen in 10 years if Daei became head coach again, or GN, or MK?

Also sort of off topic, but does anyone else see the massive similarities in football culture between Iran and England? Impatient fans, Poor showings in important games, over hyped national teams...

Right on ....... and your comparison of England and Iran is NOT off topic at all, I believe culture it is the root of the problem. The English , when it comes to football , are full of self-belief and over - confidence to a degree of arrogance for their national team.

With all those so World Class players , a league that is exemplary and arguably the best in the world , and the riches of Capello , apparently did not reap its fruit....surprise ..surprise.

Is it something to do with the culture ??? maybe ...

Compare that to our situation , I think that the current Persian culture is NOT very helpful towards the progress of football because of :

1- Over expectation.
2- Arrogance in feeling of supremacy against the others.
3- Detachment from reality.
4- Self endearing and claims of supreme knowledge.
5- Ruthless criticism.
6- Poor work ethics (lack of true professionalism).

Iran's football has got nothing special compared to the rest. All this hype about talented footballers and the right to be there at the top ( as if it was a divine right from birth) is nothing but a myth. In football ., you need to excel to reach the top. In fact that applies to any sport. Iranians are as talented as the system they are brought up with and CAN become a power in football World if they organize , apply themselves , work hard and excel. It is NOT a birth right , however.

Look at Basketball , wrestling , Taekwando and other Martial Arts . Yes , it is possible to reach such level.....but not by dreaming and talk alone.

BTW: Is anyone is as puzzled as me why Iranians excel in sports that beat up people ?

[zzgloo]

Also sort of off topic, but does anyone else see the massive similarities in football culture between Iran and England? Impatient fans, Poor showings in important games, over hyped national teams...

Another similarity, is the what " Beckenbauer,called on his criticism of English football ", The Kick & Rush ,.....the style of football based on , rushing from the sides, and crosses toward the goal...., which is way out of date, compare to , today's, Triangular/ Dimond, short/fast ,passing advancements.











.

[maij]

This is where culture makes such a huge difference in success of football. Read the following.


After an unsuccessful spell with Espanyol in 2009, Nakamura returned to hometown J-League side Yokohama F Marinos ahead of the 2010 season and Takeshi Okada took the difficult pre-World Cup decision to relegate Nakamura to Japan's bench, with the attack instead built around emerging star Keisuke Honda.


When asked by Japanese media about his next match for the Blue Samurai, Nakamura said: "There won't be one for me. I'm through."
Nakamura made one substitute appearance at the World Cup, in Japan's 1-0 loss to the Netherlands in the group stage. Of his demotion from the first XI, he told reporters earlier this week: "I didn't really want to talk about it up until now because I knew that's all people would ask me about. I felt bad about not speaking all this time, but it wasn't easy for me.



"It's a shame I couldn't do anything on the pitch, but I learned a lot. I have to accept the fact that I wasn't good enough. But I don't think my time has been wasted. This is life in soccer."