<<Zidane Incident>> Some thing should be done by FIFA!!

[zzgloo]

Didn't read the whole thing but it seems this unfortunate incidence is getting a well deserved attention by FIFA. Mattazarri or whatever his name is denied that he called him a terrorist but I read in CNN that lip reading experts believe he did that among other things.
According the version I read, mattzaratzi grabbed his shirt before the incidence and Zidane tells him, If you want the shirt, I give it to you after the game. Then again according the Mattzaratzi, he insults Zidane. He doesn't say exactly what he said nevertheles. Zidance gave him a condecending look and then headbutts him.
Regarding Zidane's action, I don't think he did a good thing. But sometimes, a shockign event needs to occur (as unfortunate it is) to cause change. Remember tree huggers and initial gay pride parades, how shocking they were to most of us. Their action was not the solution but their shocking action in a way helped to create a debate and in an indirect way moved the cause forward.
So, here maybe this unfortunate event, will expedite and put the whole ugly face of racisem by some fans( specially in Italy and Spain (in these two coutries fans were openly making monkey signs when black players got the ball)) in front of the whole world.
In summary again, Zidan's action is not justified, but in a totally coincidental way, his action may result in some good things to happen. I read FIFA will investigate this and of course Zidance will get suspension, but Marco guy won't go without punishment either.

I totaly agree with you....dear ali chicago..........
more over, as I have said it here earlier on this thread......every body knows head-butting is bad, and worse than insulting.........but, there is an additional dimention to this,that all our fellow members here, not all, but some, keep missing it.....and that is a huge and rediculos situation of racial attacks in Europe,that has been going on for far too long,without being addressed.
although,FIFA has done some minimal prevention steps to remedy this, but it has extreemly deep roots in Europe...that ,as you said, may reguire something totaly out of ordinary and drastic , such as zidan's action,during the final of world cup...to make every body awaire of savirity of the situation.....Zidan,indeed has served as leggacy....one on the field, and one for the exploited !!!
and again as you also suggested in similar way..........The tony blair and Bush, in thier common press conference stated,that they had wrong forign policies toward middle east,and are no longer supporter of tyranic regims who expolit thier people and ,,,the two agreed to support democrecies instead, as a new world order !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ............But guess what ??, they did it after the world trade center 9-11 incident..

[smanhoobi]

zzglo jaan:

The reason we seem to be on different extremes of this spectrum on this issue (which I dont believe we really are) is based on how I see football may be.

To me , football is a sports. Thats all it is. It serves the purpose of a sport. I always disagreed with the notion that football can serve any other purpose. Not that in reality it doesnt. But that, it shouldn't.

Football is governed by the rules set for it. Although we promote it to be played fair and clean, that in football is not a defined "rule". And football does not exactly follow the rule of the world.

Fouls are commited in football. Intentional gets ejected. Unintentional gets cautioned without any other measures. But in real world, whether it is intentional or unintentional, it carries a certain amount of responsibility and consequence.

So in football, we use certain "freedoms" given by the rule of the game to get where we want to get. We use terms like "professional Fouls". Those professional fouls are still against fairness. But we use them and every team encourages the use of it when needed.

So, I like football with everything it offers. My only condition is that it serves just one goal. And that is sports and not sociopolitical purposes.

In this game, using psychological pressure is very normal. Not that I approve it, but this game comes with it. "F" word is and has become the normal language of this game. Noone ever cares either. Nothing can be done about it either. If the official does not hear it, its being used.

In case of Mterazzi and Zidane incident. I condemn what Materazzi said. But I also know that, since football is a sport, such comments should have no bearing on anyone. Including the offended player.

In that regards, I also condemn Zidane's action or rather reaction. Football is not the place for making political statements. Nor should it be the place for alerting the world of any wrong doings or creating an atmosphere where change is initiated.

Racism is a global problem. Its a cultural one. Football is not the only place it happens. It happens all around us and on daily basis. FIFA can be a tool to educate people. But its not up to players to enforce a change. That should happen at cultural level.

Hope I could elaborate.

[Hajagha]

To me , football is a sports. Thats all it is. It serves the purpose of a sport. I always disagreed with the notion that football can serve any other purpose. Not that in reality it doesnt. But that, it shouldn't..

You can be in this opinion for ever, however this is not the way world look at this sport. One billion (at least) looking at an event live, a total of 23 billions watched 64 games, having 207 members in FIFA while having only 190 members in UN show "this is not only a sport". It starts as a sport but has a lot to offer and can be the best tool to reach our goals.

For the rest of your post, FIFA rules are constantly changing, we just need to show our demands and ask for a better game. As you mentioned, both players are at fault and must be punished, how? "by asking for rules". We don't have such a rule for filthy mouth or if we have, it doesn't get too much attention. Needs to get the attention by the officials.

Cheers soheil joon.

[zzgloo]

zzglo jaan:
The reason we seem to be on different extremes of this spectrum on this issue (which I dont believe we really are) is based on how I see football may be.
To me , football is a sports. Thats all it is. It serves the purpose of a sport. I always disagreed with the notion that football can serve any other purpose. Not that in reality it doesnt. But that, it shouldn't.
Football is governed by the rules set for it. Although we promote it to be played fair and clean, that in football is not a defined "rule". And football does not exactly follow the rule of the world.
Fouls are commited in football. Intentional gets ejected. Unintentional gets cautioned without any other measures. But in real world, whether it is intentional or unintentional, it carries a certain amount of responsibility and consequence.
So in football, we use certain "freedoms" given by the rule of the game to get where we want to get. We use terms like "professional Fouls". Those professional fouls are still against fairness. But we use them and every team encourages the use of it when needed.
So, I like football with everything it offers. My only condition is that it serves just one goal. And that is sports and not sociopolitical purposes.
In this game, using psychological pressure is very normal. Not that I approve it, but this game comes with it. "F" word is and has become the normal language of this game. Noone ever cares either. Nothing can be done about it either. If the official does not hear it, its being used.
In case of Mterazzi and Zidane incident. I condemn what Materazzi said. But I also know that, since football is a sport, such comments should have no bearing on anyone. Including the offended player.
In that regards, I also condemn Zidane's action or rather reaction. Football is not the place for making political statements. Nor should it be the place for alerting the world of any wrong doings or creating an atmosphere where change is initiated.
Racism is a global problem. Its a cultural one. Football is not the only place it happens. It happens all around us and on daily basis. FIFA can be a tool to educate people. But its not up to players to enforce a change. That should happen at cultural level.
Hope I could elaborate.

Dear Smanhoobi,......I understand your point of view well,as not only you articulated it well,but also sounds very wise.......
But,in my opinion, even within your frame of defining football, things do not add up.....
Racism is indeed global,as you mentioned,but every body knows The European racism is far more savear than any place els,
The slogan for this world cup was " FAIR PLAY "........But is ,Crying by some African players of European clubs ,because of racial attacks of fans, and leaving the game, Fair ?
Is, statements, by, previouse captain of France,( Desaee ),and Thiery henry,that they can not play in france fair ?......
Does n't ,Racial atmospher,either by fans or by racist players,create an unfair psycological field for some players but not for others ?
As hajagha ,also mentioned, wheather we like it or not, football can not stay away from reality.........
In the world of poletics and global economy, one may say,The fair is to have free trade for all.......but one like , fidel castro, calls free trade ; " Free Foxes,among free chickens ".

[maij]

Anyone who embarks on an act such as what Zidane did to Materazzi is nothing but a vicious villain, such acts are only conducted by thugs. Does not matter if such act is carried out by Zidane , St Christopher or Bugs Bunny , it is an inexcusable act.

If I do the same thing in the street to another person , I get at least 3 night in Jail ( no question asked) before going in front of the judge. Spoilt brat millionaires like Zidane get applauses for defending the faith !!!!!!


What a hypocritical life we are living in ???

If a person takes the law into his own hand , then we live in the “Law of the Jungle “ ( or cowboy country , if you wish) where only the strongest survive ….tough luck if you are petit or under-nourished. To hell with the law , courts , judges and police….

Materazzi uttered racial remark ? Well , I would not be too surprised…Racialism is rife in the world. 10 out of 10 to FIFA for attempting to fight it on the football pitches , but FIFA is not a country , it is not a religion and it certainly is not “The Security Council.” For God sake, it is just a football organization …It cannot overturned a person who has been raised into racialism and hatred into a saint overnight or in a month of football competition!!! I fully support punishing alleged racial remarks by any player or coach…but where is the proof ?


Do I support victims of racial slurs or religious discrimination ? Like hell I would except for Zidane, because he displayed the ugly face of the Muslim ….brutal , physical , revenge seeking and full of vengeance. When we , the Muslims , desperately need to send a different message to the World….that we are not bad people….


Take your pick.

[VivaItalia]

Ahsant Majid jan.

However, Materazzi's insult was not even racial! as Zidan announced it today too.

[BehzadB]

Anyone who embarks on an act such as what Zidane did to Materazzi is nothing but a vicious villain, such acts are only conducted by thugs. Does not matter if such act is carried out by Zidane , St Christopher or Bugs Bunny , it is an inexcusable act.


What a hypocritical life we are living in ???



........except for Zidane, because he displayed the ugly face of the Muslim brutal , physical , revenge seeking and full of vengeance. When we , the Muslims , desperately need to send a different message to the World….that we are not bad people….

I just wonder if St. Christopher had done that, would you have said St. Chrisotpher had shown "ugly of face of " his religion?

I don't think so.

Hundreds of such actions take place in the sports world and 99.999999999% of them are cuased by Non-Muslims (Italian league, English League, Spanish League .e.tc) but in those cases it has NOTHING to do with their religion. ONLY in the case of a muslim it MUST have something to do with the ugly face of Islam. RIIIIIIIGHT!!!!

Hypocricy, Ha?

[maij]

I just wonder if St. Christopher had done that, would you have said St. Chrisotpher had shown "ugly of face of " his religion?

?

Except St. Christopher did not fly into 2 buildings killing thousands of innocent people , Did he ?


But....then again.....many would not understand the significance of such acts.........ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AFFECTED BY IT.

[ShahHouman]

ooh good point, well anyways u guys r making a bigger deal out of this then it really is and are making posts too long to even read so im not sure how much more i'll continue to participate in this....but he said it today, the comments were about his mom n sis, we duno that his mom's dying, he jus said she's in the hospital, words about a player's mom n sis r in every match so no biggie there, zidane simply lost his cool and reacted in a manner he shouldnt hav in the position he was in, and that's that, u can talk about conspiracies, hypocricies and wutever cies u wanna talk about, he still lost his cool and did somethin he shouldnt hav, case closed

[smanhoobi]

http://www.zidane.fr/homepage.html

anyone can give a summary of what zidane says here?

Appreciate it. And appreciate your french language knowledge.

[VivaItalia]

http://www.zidane.fr/homepage.html

anyone can give a summary of what zidane says here?

Appreciate it. And appreciate your french language knowledge.

Summary: Goh Khordam!

[smanhoobi]

Maij jaan:

Tons of wisdom put in a few sentences. As usual, you are the man. Thanks.

Haji jaan:

I think we are mixing apples and oranges again. I think we should avoid using everything for a single purpose.

FIFA is FIFA. UN is UN. They serve different purposes. And we should stick by what they serve.

FIFA has more members than UN simply because it is a popular "sport". Its a sport that brings drama as well as joy to people.

When I listen to a singer, I focus on his song. Whether he does drugs, he has an attitude is irrelevant to me. His job is to sing a song. And mine is to listen to it, and possibly enjoy it. Same goes for football and players. I am not looking at what statement other than football a player has to offer. I look at the joy he brings with his hard work and passion for the game. I look at how solid he is in the pitch. Thats all about football to me. Technique, tactic and psychological greatness.

I look at FIFA as "footballing governing body". If they change rules, its meant to bring more action and joy to the game. "Fairness" is the slogan that makes the game more enjoyable. But without education in cultural levels, FIFA cant do much about it. And as I said before, football does not exactly follow the real world rules and regulations. Its because, its not politics. Its just a game.

zzglo jaan:

Do you really think that this world is not aware of racisms involved in Europe? Do you really think, racism is not felt in USA?

Its all over the place my friend. And its getting worse on a daily basis.

This world is deviding rapidly. The problem is that it is deviding and merging in its divisions. Small groups have realized that to have a stronger voice, they need to merge behind a certain idea. So, whereas in the past we had many small groups with diversion of views, we have only a few now behind one view. That has made the ideas to be heard stronger and clashes to get bigger.

Any ways guys. I would like to bring you 2 quotes from two french players regarding this incident of Zidane. Please just read them and see the wisdom behind each quote. Its not only for this incident, it also is very relevant to us too. It explains a lot about us as iranians and problems we face in our football due to it.

"You can take the man out of the rough neighborhood, but you can't take the rough neighborhood out of the man,"
by Thierry Henry

"For all that Zidane has done for the national team, you have to say 'Thank you and well done,"'
by David Trezeguet, the only player to miss his penalty kick in the shootout.

[BehzadB]

Except St. Christopher did not fly into 2 buildings killing thousands of innocent people , Did he ?


But....then again.....many would not understand the significance of such acts.........ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AFFECTED BY IT.

Neither did Zidan.

And Neither did 1.3 Billion Muslims that live on this planet.

You don't blame All the Christians for what that Oklahoma Bomber did, now do you? Did you know he was a very strong believer and an otherwise nice guy. One that went to church and had no criminal history?

If you want to face the realities of the world we live in you MUST set aside your Generalization and stereotyping of People, cultures, nationalities, religions. Otherwise you will fall in that Hypocritical Trap that you so very much complain about.

Would you have written a SINGLE word about Zidan's religion IF he had won this cup and IF he had not lost his temper in that moment? NO you would not. But now you say it was the ugly face of Islam and Muslims that Zidan showed with that act? Did you mention Zidan's Religion when he toyed with Brazil and all it's superstars in 1998 or just a couple of weeks ago? I don't think so.

did you ever say oh wow what a great muslim football palyer? Or did you just say what a great football player? Then why is it that now you say , look what a ugly thing this muslim football player did?

[zzgloo]

As smanhoobi e aziz, said..we are mixing apples and oranges....
What smanhoobi and maij and vivaitalia are saying ,is very logical , and may be more correct, as they are talking and judging from football point of view.
And that is the apple they are talking about......
I along,hajagha,ali-chicago and others are talking about the Orange !
And the Orange is ,Life,and hard realities ,and unfair enviroments,and racism.
.........................
you might say,this is a football forum......but we say, it is a football plus ! forum !!!
.........................
No, matter what every body says here, this issue is the talk of the town all over the world now.........and the reason for that,is that football is no longer football when 34 billion watch it, it is football PLUS !!
...................
smanhoobi jan....
No matter how you slice it, the racisem in Europe, is far more advanced than any where els.....
although,there is racisem in USA,but no way close to Europe....you can ask others....
The possibility of fans in stediums makeing monkey noices in USA is Zero, even in worst places.
The possibility of clubs in USA not allowing people in based on race is Zero .
The possibility of Not finding a job because of your race in USA is Zero.
You can take any body to a court and make him pay dearly because of race, even some times without evidence !!
There is reason, Iranians in USA make more money than Iranian in Europe !
There is reason, Iranians in Europe are more poletical than the ones in USA.
And....
there is a reason, Iranians in Europe are more tolerant to racisem than the ones in USA.
and there is a reason ,most iranians in Europe have resigned to racisem ,and prefer to call it fact of life,and global.
.....................Such arrogance seen in europe ,does not exit in USA, does not exit in Mexico,does not exit in Brazil,does not exit in japan,does not exit in Eygept,does not exit in uganda,does not exit in iran, does not exit in
China....may be a milder kind of racisem, but defenetly nothing like the European magnitude.
....................
As an iranian who also feels for the under dogs of the world, and can not take all that shit any more, the zidan incident is an uppertunity to exploit,and to let this mother.f...kers know, what they are.....so they would not hide behind the slogan of, THIS IS JUST FOOTBALL..............
...................
viva italia jan.....it realy even does not matter what has been said, as this story has found its own rout,regardless of even the truth !!...yet, BBC lip analyses have stated....this as the exact conversation ...
" You are a son of a terrorist whore !!! "

[smanhoobi]

As smanhoobi e aziz, said..we are mixing apples and oranges....
What smanhoobi and maij and vivaitalia are saying ,is very logical , and may be more correct, as they are talking and judging from football point of view.
And that is the apple they are talking about......
I along,hajagha,ali-chicago and others are talking about the Orange !
And the Orange is ,Life,and hard realities ,and unfair enviroments,and racism.
.........................
you might say,this is a football forum......but we say, it is a football plus ! forum !!!
.........................
No, matter what every body says here, this issue is the talk of the town all over the world now.........and the reason for that,is that football is no longer football when 34 billion watch it, it is football PLUS !!
...................
smanhoobi jan....
No matter how you slice it, the racisem in Europe, is far more advanced than any where els.....
although,there is racisem in USA,but no way close to Europe....you can ask others....
The possibility of fans in stediums makeing monkey noices in USA is Zero, even in worst places.
The possibility of clubs in USA not allowing people in based on race is Zero .
The possibility of Not finding a job because of your race in USA is Zero.
You can take any body to a court and make him pay dearly because of race, even some times without evidence !!
There is reason, Iranians in USA make more money than Iranian in Europe !
There is reason, Iranians in Europe are more poletical than the ones in USA.
And....
there is a reason, Iranians in Europe are more tolerant to racisem than the ones in USA.
and there is a reason ,most iranians in Europe have resigned to racisem ,and prefer to call it fact of life,and global.
.....................Such arrogance seen in europe ,does not exit in USA, does not exit in Mexico,does not exit in Brazil,does not exit in japan,does not exit in Eygept,does not exit in uganda,does not exit in iran, does not exit in
China....may be a milder kind of racisem, but defenetly nothing like the European magnitude.
....................
As an iranian who also feels for the under dogs of the world, and can not take all that shit any more, the zidan incident is an uppertunity to exploit,and to let this mother.f...kers know, what they are.....so they would not hide behind the slogan of, THIS IS JUST FOOTBALL..............
...................
viva italia jan.....it realy even does not matter what has been said, as this story has found its own rout,regardless of even the truth !!...yet, BBC lip analyses have stated....this as the exact conversation ...
" You are a son of a terrorist whore !!! "

I have been in Europe, lived there and I must say you are absolutely right about your comments there. May be, when I compared USA with Europe, I did a little injustice.

But how one feels is relative to the environment they are in. I felt more when I was in Europe. I feel less of it in USA. Bottomline is that it exists and I feel it.

As you rightly mentioned it, this is F+ forum. And thats why I love it. I love the fact that sometimes we go beyond football and discuss real life issues.

I guess, real life issues in this era is so heartbreaking and depressing that as a football fan, i would want to keep it away from football. And as a football fan, I feel that I need to fight for it and keep it "real life"-less.

Thats why, I do support eradications of such acts at cultural level, but not at the level of football, which is probably the only thing in this whole universe that I still watch and feel safe. This is because, at least in theory, it has simple rules and gives liberty to be a human being. One with emotions, aggression, kindness and skills.

It also shows how volnurable human being is. How a human being can make mistakes even at its peak. And how those mistakes can be seen by everyone and yet we still love the guilty party and cheer for our purposes again and again.

Thats my take on this whole issue zzglo jaan. But, you are the man and I understand every word that you say.

Mokhlesetam.
Soheil