<<Zidane Incident>> Some thing should be done by FIFA!!

[VivaItalia]

" You are a son of a terrorist whore !!! "

ZZgloo jan,

So you say Zidane is lying too? Did you read what he said? Zidane said Materazzi insulted his mother and sister. in that sentense I don't see the word "sister".

and Materazzi says that he didn't insult Zidane's mother. So he indirectly accepts that he insulted Zidane's sister!

I think you should not trust a British lip reader...after all, she or he is british!

[BehzadB]

I think you should not trust a British lip reader...after all, she or he is british!

don't you think BBC might have brought in Italian lip readers?

[zzgloo]

I have been in Europe, lived there and I must say you are absolutely right about your comments there. May be, when I compared USA with Europe, I did a little injustice.
But how one feels is relative to the environment they are in. I felt more when I was in Europe. I feel less of it in USA. Bottomline is that it exists and I feel it.
As you rightly mentioned it, this is F+ forum. And thats why I love it. I love the fact that sometimes we go beyond football and discuss real life issues.
I guess, real life issues in this era is so heartbreaking and depressing that as a football fan, i would want to keep it away from football. And as a football fan, I feel that I need to fight for it and keep it "real life"-less.
Thats why, I do support eradications of such acts at cultural level, but not at the level of football, which is probably the only thing in this whole universe that I still watch and feel safe. This is because, at least in theory, it has simple rules and gives liberty to be a human being. One with emotions, aggression, kindness and skills.
It also shows how volnurable human being is. How a human being can make mistakes even at its peak. And how those mistakes can be seen by everyone and yet we still love the guilty party and cheer for our purposes again and again.
Thats my take on this whole issue zzglo jaan. But, you are the man and I understand every word that you say.
Mokhlesetam.
Soheil

smanhoobi jan....Thanks for your responce.....
it is such a shame that we are all bounch of sentences to each other, as I wished I could have met people like you......You are a wise man, and not emotional as I am. ( This is not a ' hendevaneh ' )
I go to Europe every year,and stay for two days on my way to Iran...mostly germany and switzerland.( because of my job )....there has not been a single time,that I did not encounter an insult from germans,...not even once...
I do not know, how other Iranians take it. I know,there are so many good and wise and cultured europeans...yet....It is amazing,that after so much contributions by Europeans ,in History, in Art,in litreature,in sience,etc...how could this be the result of such a rich culture ?...........
Well, who are we iranians to blame them ,with our ahmadinejad ??!!

[zzgloo]

ZZgloo jan,

So you say Zidane is lying too? Did you read what he said? Zidane said Materazzi insulted his mother and sister. in that sentense I don't see the word "sister".

and Materazzi says that he didn't insult Zidane's mother. So he indirectly accepts that he insulted Zidane's sister!

I think you should not trust a British lip reader...after all, she or he is british!

vivaItalia jan,......may be you are right !.....It seemed a little strange,as even zidan was not willing to elaborate much on the issue,and was a little ambigoues.........With as much money as he has, he probebly was coached by his lawyers ,as to the extend of elaboration....what zedan has said and what materrazi has said, and what the lip readers have are all different,and not complete.The world may have been " Kasehe daghtar az aash "...and I defenetly ride my own horse, do n't I
On another note......Whom did you realy judged to have out played the other ?...France , or italia ?

[Hajagha]

After checking FIFA rules, it seems they already have a rule for this incidence and only need to apply it more serious. Telling that, my gut feeling says next world cup will be "abusive language" to be highlighted for officials, like this WC 06 was elbowing, WC 02 was diving,...

Sending-Off Offences
A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
1. is guilty of serious foul play
2. is guilty of violent conduct
3. spits at an opponent or any other person
4. denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity
by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a
goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving
towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick
or a penalty kick
6. uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
7. receives a second caution in the same match
A player who has been sent off must leave the vicinity of the field of play and the technical area.
__________________

[VivaItalia]

don't you think BBC might have brought in Italian lip readers?

Possible! but not neccesarily though!

[VivaItalia]

vivaItalia jan,......may be you are right !.....It seemed a little strange,as even zidan was not willing to elaborate much on the issue,and was a little ambigoues.........With as much money as he has, he probebly was coached by his lawyers ,as to the extend of elaboration....what zedan has said and what materrazi has said, and what the lip readers have are all different,and not complete.The world may have been " Kasehe daghtar az aash "...and I defenetly ride my own horse, do n't I
On another note......Whom did you realy judged to have out played the other ?...France , or italia ?

I am confused too. But you know, if FIFA doesn't punish both badly, it'll become a bad example. 1) Players must learn to not to be verbally abusive. 2) players must learn to not to execute "justice" by themselves!

We shall wait and see what happens.

PS. I don't wanna change the subject, but to answer your last question, None of them. I think it was an almost equal game, a little more credit to France. I watched the game again and noticed that except for the first 7 minutes and the 1st OT, Italy played a good game. Not as good as against Germany, but still good. France had some more accidental chances (like the one Ibbery had) and some very nice ones (like the Zidane's header), So did Italy (the offside goal which was suspicious, and also Toni heating the bar). Do you have the game? Let's talk about the game in other threads, if you wish.

[Ali Chicago]

Post Zidan Incident

Recovering from the world cup shock, so trying to read posts more than post (specially I tend to post long postings).
Anyhow, I am not going into get into this Heydari Nemati of Pro Zidan Anti Zidan thing. I just have two comments: One comment for Sohail Jaan and another one about use of foul language on the pitch

First to Sohail Jaan, with all the due respect, I totally disagree with your coment about soccer is jsut soccer. Soccer is not just soccer, as much as we try to hide our head in the sand like the Giraff and pretend we don't see it, soccer like any other thing is impacted by other issues (profit, advertisment, blah blah and yes racisem).
Not trying to act too wise and stuff Sohai Jaan, but one can't make a judegment about an event without the context. I remember at the time of Sep2001 I was dating a girl from Wisconsin and she was totally shocked and all (and so was I of course). However, I mentioned maybe it will be wise to look for what drives bunch of people to act like that. Sit in a plane and kill themselves and hudreds of others. I think people missing a major point here. Just for a second think about depth of the despair, depth of the feeling of helplessness,depth of teh feeling of lack of repesentation those lunatics must have felt. They felt in order to make an statement they have to pay with their lives and lives of so many other innocent people. We can say and type all we want in here, reality is soccer is part of this world, with all its problems, and it is being imapcted by it.

BTW, my earlier comment about Sep 11th is by no mean to justify what they did, what they did was horrible and it is not justified.

On a second note, FIFA is the rule making body of the Football and can set up frame work and rules and to make the game clean. I was very happy to see refrees are more sensetive toward violance and careless tackling. Everyone was complaining about too many yellow cards, but I think it is matter of time, before players will be forced to adapt their game to avoid careless tackling and all that grabbing and shirt pulling during the corner or free kicks.
Lot of guys keep saying everyone uses foul language in the game and all that, so if the Italian dude did it, it is jsut normal. Using foul language is already punishable by FIFA rules. So, I am surprised that people say using F word is so common and widespread on the field. I am old and don't play high level soccer now, but even 10-12 years ago, F word was punishable by a red card (at least in Canada and US). Maybe we in North America are too Soo SOOL or following the law too closely.
Furthermore, I totally agree with what Hajagha mentioned about we as fans need to make a demand for harsher treatment for those players who use foul language in racial context and make sure it is not tolerated.

Getting a Red card for using F word is even part of the rules already and been there for at least more than 12 years (back in the days I played in Canada). If a player says the F word in the field in the US or Canada, I know ref will give him a red card. This was at high level games I played, not just some kiddy soccer at Youth Soccer level. I played primier level soccer in Winnipeg and Ottawa and then in Major league in Chicago. Never at the pro level but right below that in these cities.

Let me share with you a personal story. Yours truly got ejected (which I am not proud of it btw) in final game of a tournament for saying the F word not aimed at opposition player, I used it in a sentence to criticize my team mate (defender). It was just a way to experss my frustration.

Story was I was playing center midfield, and this forward beat our defense line and heading one on one toward our goal. The goddamn last defender who had filled the offside stood and stopped chasing. I didn't give up and chased him and thank god he was not too fast, so I caught up with him ( and saved a one on one tackled him and all). That won a cheer from crowd and at that moment of ****yness I was like too proud of myself and screamed at that last defneder (used the F word not to insult him, I said why the F*** you stoped chasig?). To my totall surprise, I got a red card, and yes I got the blame for the eventual loss (just like Zizo) LOL.
Moral of the story, using foul language is punishable by the FIFA rules, the same way headbutting which a violant act is and must be punishable.

[VivaItalia]

Moral of the story, using foul language is punishable by the FIFA rules, the same way headbutting which a violant act is and must be punishable.

You are absolutely right. However, there is an IF in the equation: "IF the referee hears or sees it. or it's too obvious on TV."

but what if you whisper the F word or any other provokative words? No one but the opposition player will hear it. right? then he gets mad and out of control and butthead you!!

That's why we say that it's absolutely out of control, so the subject player needs to be educated to not to get emotional and not to show reaction.

[zzgloo]

I also like to give my last word on this issue....it will be short !!
..........................
The reason FIFA has the position of, " Football is seperate from poletics ".....is not because fifa believes ,sportmanship, is naive and incapeble of understanding poletics !!!!
The real reason for such position is............Football and sportmanships are above and fairer than poletics...!!!!!
therefore, FIFA , does have obligation toward being fair !!,in a non-poletical way.

[EKBATAN]

Zidane will always be a joke from now on

CASE CLOSED!

[zereshk-ali]

Zidane will always be a joke from now on
CASE CLOSED!

You guys make me laugh.

If you put your pro-Italian bias behind you for 5 minutes surely you can admit that this was one of the great players of all time.

Pele put a player in hospital with one of his deliberate elbows and yet Zidane will always be a joke. :bs:

[EKBATAN]

You guys make me laugh.
If you put your pro-Italian bias behind you for 5 minutes surely you can admit that this was one of the great players of all time.
Pele put a player in hospital with one of his deliberate elbows and yet Zidane will always be a joke. :bs:

I didnt say he wasnt great

im just saying the truth....what he did will ALWAYS be remembered more than what he did as a football player.

[zereshk-ali]

I have to say that I disagree - I for one will always remember him for his football.

In my experience it's only people who aren't real football fans who at the time of the world cup all of a sudden get sucked into the media hype around the finals and forward all the jokes, the clips of Zidane and Materazzi and will be the ones who only remember the headbutt since they saw it on the news 1000 times.

How many times around world cup finals do you get forwarded really bad football related e-mails or jokes by people in your office who didn't give a sh*t about football for 4 years?

The real football fans will remember what Zidane did for France and for good football.

[RaginG Inferno]

I have to say that I disagree - I for one will always remember him for his football.
In my experience it's only people who aren't real football fans who at the time of the world cup all of a sudden get sucked into the media hype around the finals and forward all the jokes, the clips of Zidane and Materazzi and will be the ones who only remember the headbutt since they saw it on the news 1000 times.
How many times around world cup finals do you get forwarded really bad football related e-mails or jokes by people in your office who didn't give a sh*t about football for 4 years?
The real football fans will remember what Zidane did for France and for good football.

Great post!