Worst possible draw for Iran

[186forever]

Agha Soheil I also Understand what you are saying. But Pace is not our only problem. From what I read in ur post, u are basically saying that we have a better chance against Brazil rather than Portugal or Mexico since Brazil s pace is not as fast. You might be right interms of the pace issue but just please close your eyes for me for 1 min and picture Nosrati and Golmohammadi marking Ronaldo and Adriano. And I m not even going to bother with Ronaldinho. And then take a look at our left side, and what Roberto Carlos one of the best left wingers from the Left will do to us and nosrati. I mean you barely see this Brazil make an error pass. Brazilians are the favors of winning it again. They have not lost a single valuable piece from the 02 squad but gained a Super Striker like Adriano, One of the best freekick takers (Juninho) , Robinho......just watch Real's matches, and last but not least, the scorpion DIDA. This team has the full package Soheil Jan. I m telling as I was writing this, I almost wanted to cry because I was picturing Us and Brazil.
Let s take a look at other teams.
England
You say pace is an issue on our TM. Michael Owen is one of the fastest Strikers in the world. Now add Rooney's Power and shot accuracy to it. Just Imagine how these two would manhandle our Defense. And as Doctor Doom Mentioned, These English Players live on Crosses and they send the most beautiful and accurate crosses in today s football, and let s not forget Mr. Beckham in that category. Then take a look at their midfield. The two top 5 best Midfielders in today's football, Frank Lampard who just getts better and better and Steven Gerrard. Do you think these players will ever make mistakes and allow us to do anything in Midfield? They will control the most important part of the footballfield the whole match. And let s not forget their Speedy Joe Cole who will also kill our slow defenders. And their defenders, well what are Daei's and Hashemian's Advantages? mostly headers. England's defenders deal with perfect crosses every single day so I do not know how Sattar Zareh s right foot cross from the left can bother the likes of John Terry, Campbell, or Ferdinan. The only weakness in England s team is David James.
Argentina
This team is also a favor to win it this year. They have the skills and attack of Brazil, Plus a load of the greatest Defenders like Samuel, Ayala, and a player like Zanetti who is one of the best DMs in today s football. Can you imagine what The likes of Crespo, Saviola(speed), the raising star, Messi will do to our defense.
Italy
Well, they are no way a Pace team, but Common, up untill this day, they were known as the wall of China, and now, well They play 4-3-3 and they just score on will on teams. They have a world of young talented players who just finish and get the job done. Totti had a training day against us at that friendly of Iran and AS Roma.
I don t want to keep writing these, because I know you have way more knowledge in football than I do. But As much as you are right about the fact that we should not look at names and look and their style of game, You also have to look at the names. There are reasons why those players are BIG Names. Portugal and Mexico are not great teams, They are Solid teams. Sure they will give loads of problem to our defense and they are fast paste teams, but their Defense is beatable. you have to look at the other side also. We both know that our advantages are in the offensive side. For Mexico, Other than Marquez, they do not have an All-Star defender. Sure they have solid defenders but I don t see any of them edging Rezaie. Same with Portugal. Sure they have Carvalo and other good defenders, but a player like Karimi Has a better chance of breaking them rather than the likes of England or Argentina or Italy. Or Hashemian has a better chance of getting up and scoring over Mexico s Defense rather than England's.
again, I see your point and you are right about the pace, but I still believe we have a better chance of getting results over mexico and portugal rather than the likes of Brazil, England,Italy,Argentina,Holland,and even Spain.

[Hadi]

Soheil is right.

Playing teams like Ecuador, Costa Rica, Croatia, Poland, Ukraine would have been easier because They dont have the speed of Mexico and Portugal and Iran can always play better againts such teams.

Even in WC 98 when we had the best generation of our football, we played againts 3 slow teams: Serbia, Germany, and the (very weak) Usa at that time.

[human]

thanks Soheil jaan for the article. I praise your fighting spirit and I will remember one or two points for future.

[Doctor DOOM]

and I forgot to add another aspect of our TM:

we have become absolute SISSIES !!
I knew sticking to pisspoor teams and tests will have such repurcussions.
relying and actually touting "stats and records" of wins and ... when we rarely faced any decent teams was BOUND to come around and bite us in the arse one day.

and the day has arrived !!

sissy, coz whenever they are put under pressure and the opponents try a pressing game, our lads get stcuk in the mud !
they either lose the ball or make mistakes !

they have also become quite complacent.
( apart from killing of the competition in the team for starting line up, by branko )
we are rarely used to face off and attack decent and strong teams, so when we counter one, we look novince and head-less !
we cant press them and frankly dont know how to do it, coz we are used to teams that are barely capable to play the ball.
now, suddenly we have to deal with decent players and decent team tactics !!

watch TM's last 4-5 games and u'd know what I'm talking about.

this team has way too many defects, and with the non-existent efforts ( or shd I say "results", even if efforts have been made ? ) to rectify these issues, I'm afraid we are heading into disaster.

unless something gives.
either branko decides for a change of attitude.
or graciously stepd aside, so we can get another who would do the job.

[186forever]

Soheil is right.
Playing teams like Ecuador, Costa Rica, Croatia, Poland, Ukraine would have been easier because They dont have the speed of Mexico and Portugal and Iran can always play better againts such teams.
Even in WC 98 when we had the best generation of our football, we played againts 3 slow teams: Serbia, Germany, and the (very weak) Usa at that time.

So you prefer:
A: Germany, Ecuador B: England, Paraguay/Sweeden
C: Argentina, Holland/S & M E: Italy, Czech
F: Brazil, Croatia G: France, Switz
H: Spain, Ukrain
Rather than D: Portugal, Mexico?

[smanhoobi]

First of all, let me thank Human jaan for taking some time to review this article. He did that based on my request and I am thankful for that. Moreover, he has been so humble to mention one or two things that I had in my article. I must say, he has a true spirit of a professional giving some attention where it is not really desrved. I am not in a position to give anything more than what Human and Branko already know. That was only from his humbleness and it is appreciated immensely.

For this very reason, I ask everyone to show the same humbleness and do not misuse the opportunity. At least not in this article. Remember that this is a discussion between a few fans and its level is, and should never get beyond that.

186forever jaan:

One should be out of his mind not to agree with your reply word by word.But, our difference is in fundamentals. Basically, you have mentioned many names of players and single tactical approaches to the game of those teams. What I say is totally different way of approaching matters.

Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Robinho, this ho and that ho are individual players. Each, in theory, can be contained as players. The question of whether we can do that or not is not for today. But, we at least, in theory, have players who can be used exclusively for them. The rest of the team can then go about doing some magics as individual talents for us.

In the same token, crosses, individual fast players (Like Owen) can also be contained, theoretically speaking, by putting a few players to block them. Therefore all the above can be done by a team like Iran. And again, how successful we are to do that would be a wait and see thing.

But "Pace" is not related to individual players or techiques or single tactics. Pace belongs to a team "collectively". Therefore, when all players are involved, then all players in the opponent team should have a collective mentality of the game to counter it. And we know for sure, either based on our history, or the structure of our football, we have never been able to do that with any team. Hence, we have sometimes better games against many bigger names in football (Even when we loose) than teams like S.Korea who should be called as "Joojeh" in world football. I think this is un-deniable in football and many un-usual results that we see in the world of football are basically, partly, related to these "Tactical Conflicts" in match ups.

As for the groups you mentioned. I agree, Holland and Argentina are very difficult match up. I say, our chances against a Team like Argentina is close to zero, today. Not only they possess our weakest point and that is their pace, but technically, they are superior. But, with a lot of amount of caution, I would say Holland is not that bad for us. Yes, they are better in many aspects. But they do not possess a killer in the jugular for us as Argentina does.

As for the other groups. I think they are a much better choice for Iran as none possess the killer cut in jugular either. They are superior names and tactically many of them can beat us any day, but they dont have the ultimate killing punch for us.

Now portugal and Mexico are not that much of a big name for us. Apart from the pace of the game they possess, they probably are relatively easier teams on paper. They can basically punch us in the stomach a few times, but our stomach will be hard to contain those punches. But , especially for us and teams like us, they have "One" killer punch that many of the others dont have it. Others can punch us really hard, but not to the neck and "Kherkhereh". Mexico and Portugal, however, can punch us less, but they know the way to our "kherkhereh". No matter how weak it is, its a killer in that area.

Hope I could do better this time.

Peyman jaan:

Again, if all that you want was really doable, we should be expecting the World Cup trophy for our team, and not making million calculations of whether or not we can get "Just" to the next round. Yes, I know, you are asking for minimums that TM can offer. I strongly think, TM is offering its maximum right now and "Almost Noone" can make it run better than this. What you say is doable, but it needs much more than what we have in Iran.

We just need to discuss, bring realistical and doable suggestions, trust the knowledge of the staff, then cross our fingers real tight and then hope for the best. And when the best is finally achieved, we shall go one step further in development of our football.

The status of TM today is not the result of a change in one night. Therefore, one can not expect a solution in one day. Yes, Branko has been there for 5 years now. But consider the fact that Iran is just like a "Heavy Lakposht (Turtle)". So , the distance we can go in a particular period of time is very very minimal. If this turtle would be fed properly from years and years ago, we could make it change to a lion and only THEN we could expect the pace of a Lion. But untill that day, we are a big fat turtle. Thats all.

Thanks
Soheil

PS: Amir jaan, zz jaan and others. Please refer to above for a brief defense of what I said.
wow. Looks like , one person actually agrees with me. And that is my good friend Hadi.

[Doctor DOOM]

soheil jan, thanks for the reply.

first I will adress ur replies to my points:



1- I must disagree on the statement: "TM is offering its maximum right now".

a- we have seen FAR better performances from this team a year and half back.
so we know THIS mess that we have seen in the past yr is NOT its best.

b- if this is the best we can be,.... my god, then even angola will be a daunting task and an impossible mountain to climb !!

-----------------

2- Physicality:
I truly think we CAN be far more than this, especially in departments like fitness and pace.

I dont know how much these points are stressed, but I can only judge things by what I see in matches.
and these games tell me we are NOT as fit and fast as we SHOULD be.

yes, we're enough for bahrain and laos.
but these teams shd NEVER, EVER be our measuring sticks and standards !
never.
so relying on our results against them and how we played them will only throw us into our dark coccoon, which will burst ( explode actually ) when we face teams like portugal and mexico !!!

that's why I always oppose ppl who tout games against bahrain and n korea and ... to make our case at the WC !

now, can we be more fit ?
hell yes.
shd the players be FORCED to do so?
hell yes, I think they shd be driven like mules to reach the required level.

important point : once again , I dont claim to know what goes on in the camp and training.
what I see during the game is what I base my opinions on.

-------------

3-changes:


I am sorry, but I will NEVER accept that.

for example :
4 yrs we have had two GK coahces.
in 4 yrs mirza has not been trained on how to first assess, and then to approach crosses at different heights?
are we to understand both these chaps have done what they could, and still mirza makes the SAME mistakes he used to make 4 yrs back?

then, if you want to save those two ( I believe inept ) coaches , you must agree branko is dead wrong to persist with mirza through-out, and NOT seriously try out an alternative.
agreed?
it IS either this or that.

and such examples for other areas which he has had MORE than plenty of time,..... and the saddest thing is we are not even at the level we were a yr ago !!!!!!!!!!


-------------------------
-------------------------

now to the matter of our defenders "covering" the speedy and technical players of opponents:


branko's favorite boy, nosrati, was UNABLE to take out and nullify qatari and gulf attackers, and got dribbled, run-past, out-maneuvered far too many times, by them.
now we are supposed to ask him to cover ronaldo ?
same with zareh !

lets see:
one hand qatari , the other hand ronaldo.
hmmm.... !


or are we askign yahya to even "keep up" with the speedy strikers ?
yahya?

the problem is, soheil joon, branko has been criminally rigid when it comes to the CHOICE of defenders.
he has not allowed anyone else into his favorite band.
and has never really tested anyone seriously.

and THIS, my friend, is imminently Do-able.

this is the same "do-able" that I was talking about earlier.

[leviathan]

Greetings to all of my fellow soccer experts whom i believe know more about our opponents in group D than me.

with due respect to soheil....i would like to say the following:

As an example germany has played against many teams where they had incompatible tactics but they always find a way to win.

i am pleased we are not in group F(with brazil and croatia)
and gruop H(spain , ukraine,tunasia) and gruop G(france and switzerland)

i think the only team whom we may have "tactical conflicts" is Angola.

The toughest team in this group and team to watch is portugal...portugal is not conservative and takes more chances, they have more speed than mexico ....they keep the ball low to ground....

mexico plays a much more patient and close game (kills me to watch them),they try to keep possesion of the ball with short passes......and not often they do what mahdavikia does.....(runs for a through pass from mid field!)..

in short i see no "tactical conflict" problems here.......
tactical conflict is what we saw against QPR in England....and we would probably see again against England and their wings ...cause we can't conatin their 200 crosses nor their left and right wing attacks.

angola will have much stronger stamina than any team in the group.....we will have to score 2 early goals in first half to survive them....they also play aerial long passes.....


Good luck to our team......we have a tough task ahead.

NO test or task is too hard to pass or overcome...A
test is only hard because you have not prepared for it .
certain tasks require years to prepare for.

[perspolees]

wow.Looks like I am in deep trouble.
No azizan. Its probably because I look at football and its match-ups with a different view. Lets see if I can elaborate a little on this.
To me, stating that we got the wrost draw possible for us is not an exaggeration.
Again. In such stages, and even beyond that, I do not see teams by their names. I see, what is it that any team can offer, what are the elements towards their success, and how their opponents can contain those elements. Meaning, what is it that they can offer to "Contain" imprtant factors in the opponents style of play.
Lets look at Brasil. Brasil's important feature in football is not their pace. Brasil play a collective football, with a lot of patience in build up and an extremely high individual abilities. Brasil's weakest point is when they play against a team with a higher pace of game than what they posses or can contain. Look at Brail against Argentina for example. Argentina and Brasil are both big names in football. So, based on that alone , you do not expect an unbalance. But there should be a reason why in head to heads, Argentina has always a little edge over Brasil. As Mansoor jaan rightly pointed out, Argentina's pace takes over Brasil containment abilities.
When teams with no matching abilities face Brasil, they have no chance of survival. However, when "No Namers" like S.Korea play against them, they always have a chance. Its considered little, but they do have one(Meaning S.Korea of course). Thats only because of the pace with which S.Korea play their game.
Probably the most difficult task in football is determining the "pace" of the game. This is simply because, you dont need a collective element in your game to block the wings when needed (Traditional English Game) or concentrate in midfield when that is the element of success of the opponent team. However, when one talks about "the pace" of the opponent, overcoming it or rather containing it and forcing your own pace, needs a collective approach. All team members play a major role in doing that, hence a very difficult job for any coach to implement it. Iran , unfortunately, does not have that collective approach to football. Has never been there the way it should be.
When I look at all groups, and again regardless of their names, I do not see 2 teams in one group having a major factor in their success being their pace. Iran's group is the only group with that feature. The only. And when thats the case, and your teams' major struggle is a collective football and containing the pace of the opponent, Iran is in major trouble and , therefore, deep inside has got the worst draw possible. In this regards, I have no idea what Angola is all about, but if their major ability is their pace, then we have a bigger trouble in hand.
So basically, thats the difference between me and you on this issue. I dont look at names, I always look at tactical match-ups and what can be done to "contain" certain superior elements of the opponent for determinig the level of chances a team has against the other one.
If we played England ( their pace is a factor but not their major factor), I would say that Iran could possibly contain them from the wings and yet be able to risk a bit and play our own game too. But this is not true against Portugal and Mexico.
Hope I could explain a bit.
Thanks and looking forward for your inputs
Soheil

Soheiljan
I am really sorry but "pace" is one of the factors of the game. Therem are plnty of other factors.
Please try to think PROPORTIONAL!!

If we all agree that goal here is to go thru to second round then the talk could be a little more constructive.
If you disagree with that then we got no talk. If u agre that the goal is to go thru then think of all of the groups and show me which group we could have had a better chance.

Again it is the WHOLE aspect of the teams that are grouped with their records etc...in that except for France's group I see no better draw for Iran.

In the relativeness of things and the groups given and thinking in the RELATIVE CHANCE of going to second round we have 8 groups out there that in my opinion we are in second best...

That said even if we were in France's group I will never ever bet my money on Iran going thru to second round in any of the groups mentioned..It is kind of embaressing but the truth is that I will never bet my money on Iran to go thru for many obvious reasons...I just hope that I one day eat my words

[Doctor DOOM]

iraj jan, very good and valid points.

I agree completely with what u say.

excpet the part that says "we are experts and you know less".
no, dadash.
none of us are experts.
just die hard TM fans and football afecionados.

and everying is in the same boat here.
shekasteh nafsi nafarma'eed.


============

[186forever]

Soheil jan I completely understand your view. I guess both of us have valid points, but you favor other groups rather than our current and I am the opposite.
But I still do not understand how Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard, all offensive threats, can be Contained.
Or which team in the world Can Contain Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Adriano, Carlos, and Kaka all playing at the same time let alone our TM. But I guess you believe it is possible but I have to say I still rather take my chances against Mexico and Portugal.
Also note that it also all depends on which TM is showing up to play. If we really play up to our Potential, then we can manage 4 points from that group, and if we don't, then "Pace" and other factors that u mention are irrelevant and we will walk out with 0 or 1 point regardless of which group we are in.

[zereshk-ali]

First of all, I’d like to stress that I can't logically see how people claim our group is easier than France's or Spain's.

I’d agree that both France and Portugal are declining forces, but you only have to look at their performances in qualifying to figure which is the stronger side and who will go further in this tournament.

Portugal have lost a lot of the creativity and flair they used to have in the days of Rui Costa, Figo, Joao Pinto and Paulo Sousa’s pomp, but nowadays they have a stronger defensive line (led by the outstanding pairing of Carvalho and Andrade) and in having an in-form Pedro Pauleta they have laid to rest that perennial problem of old of lacking a proven goalscorer to put away the numerous chances they used to create and waste. France have been lucky with the draw as I could have seen another embarrassing first round exit had they been given Italy or Argentina's group. Their star players are past their prime and at the end of another grueling season it will be asking a lot of the ageing spine of their team in Thuram, Makelele, Vieira and Zidane to spark them into the life that was missing in qualifying.

I personally believe that in drawing Portugal, Czech Rep or Holland you have a stronger team in your group than the seeds of France, Mexico and Germany.

But it is not the seeds who we should have been worried about or which makes the group hard....it is the European side. Switzerland and Ukraine are not strong sides and I still believe that the best chance we had was to draw one of the weaker Europeans teams. Switzerland, Ukraine and Poland are not by any stretch of the imagination stronger than Mexico or Portugal and I personally don't believe Croatia and Serbia are either.

As for styles of football, I believe Soheil jaan is right in that we should avoid teams that could expose our defensive vulnerability to pace. But I don't believe that Mexico and Portugal are teams that rely on pace as their greatest asset. Sure they have quick players, but for both their forte is their technical, short pass and move game. And it is for this reason that I think we have a particularly tough group.

I have noticed in many instances that when team melli plays against a team that plays this style of football we can often be found out. If you watch our play when we are not in possession of the ball, on many occasions our midfield players do not track the run of the man who has released the ball and often a couple of simple one-two combinations opens up our defence. Several times against Bahrain in Manama this was the case and had it not been for the sheer numbers we had defending that day I believe we would have been defeated. And this was against an inferior team that plays the technical pass and move game.

If we had been drawn with Switzerland, Ukraine or Poland then not only would we not have to worry too much about their pace, but I also believe that their technical ability is actually below ours. Their passing is not as accurate and they would have struggled to open us up in the same way. In fact, we could have had a chance of actually taking the game to them.

Against these teams we would have seen more of the ball than against Mexico or Portugal, and I think it is particularly important for nervous world cup debutees to get a feel of the ball as soon as possible in the world cup. In our first two matches I fear that this won't be the case. We will be starved of the ball, and furthermore I don't think our players are suited to a defensive game, particularly against such highly technical players.

Finally I think it is imperative to remember that this is the world cup. We are here to face strong sides and we mustn't shirk away just because we have drawn two very good sides. We have to rise to the challenge and play our own game. I believe that means taking the game to Mexico in game one. Not giving them the respect or time on the ball and making them work very hard to win it back. If we show them what we are capable in terms of technical attacking play in the first 20 minutes then we can get them rattled and this will be important in both our confidence and the confidence of the other teams in the group in facing us.

[Hajagha]

That was the best options for Mexic and Portugal. They have an easy path comparing to the other groups.

As Iran concerned, we had no chance, and still have no chance. Well, let's put a number on that. Before the draw our chance was 1%, now after the draw is 2%. Lucky draw for us.

[kasai]

I would say that we got one of the better draws possible with the exception of the order of our matches. I would have much preferred to play Mexico last as I feel they are the best side in the group.

I do see Portugal as a threat, but I feel their success in Euro 2004 does not necessarily translate into success at the WC. Angola is one of the bottom 5 sides at this WC.

All in all the negative aspects of playing a physically fit and quick team such as Mexico means the Branko will probably implement the Talebi defensive style and look to mostly counterattack. I think he will look for a tie even though I see TM as matching up pretty well against Mexico. The key is for us to use our speed on the right and to have Karimi play a major role.

Mexico has a similar build to TM.

Daei = Borgetti --- Except Borgetti is in his prime
Karimi = Blanco --- Except La Valope has not committed to including Blanco on the team
Nekounam --- Rafa Marquez --- Advantage Mexico, but Javad is up and coming

Goalkeeping is one of our weaknesses and Mexico is solid there.

[bozghaleh]

Kasai, I disagree,

Branco needs to go for a win in the first game. We need one win vs Portugal or Mexico to even think about going to round two. The first game will dictate the strategy for the next games (based on the results). Thus, the most important game and the one we can make a strategy which we can stick to and prepare is the first game. A win against Mexico would take a lot of pressure off the Portugal game, if we lose or tie Mexico, that is not the case.
Mexico, from the few recent games I have seen, is a tough, physical, sometimes dirty team. They do not always have the speed everyone is talking about but it is there. The Mexico game should be a shootout, attacking football, like the S.Korea game in China, not the US-Iran of 1998, if we want to have any hopes of progressing.
I would like to see Human's ideas about how we should approach the Mexico game (win or tie) and how he sums up the Mexicans.