My reasons why Ghale-noei is the best option!!!

[smanhoobi]

Behzad jaan;

I did not want to reply to this issue anymore. But some of your points, needs clarification. Some I agree. Some I dont or partially do.

1/ You did not get my point in the belief issue. I said the focus of some in this board and in Iranian media was on a couple of issues. When things are like this, some with a believe in the contrary will be obliged to reply to those issues constantly. Therefore, it seems like they have a strong view "only" in those issues. Branko, Daei and Dadkan were the main focus. Some of us attempted to tell those people that the problem is beyond that and certain criticisms are not valid cause it mainly stems from some other fundamental issues.

2/ I never mentioned of anyone saving themselves for their clubs in THIS particular world cup. I never mentioned a name even in previous world cups we attended. It happened in the road to world cup, especially in the past, but not world cup itself. Karimi in this world cup played a little safe. And that was understandable for his injury. Karimi's fault was not how crippled he was in this world cup in his foot. It was how crippled he was in his brain.

3/ Now individual players one by one as you mentioned names.

Kia:
At a point in the past and right after he joined bundesliga, he also played very very safe in a few games. Still, blame should not be put on him. Infact most of the players (except Daei as an example) who went to foreign leagues acted the exact same way.

They basically wanted to be with their club cause they thought their absence and missed practices and some games would threaten their place in their clubs. Well, to some extent that was true. But there was always a moral issue involved too. Also there was a realisation later on by those players that, bundesliga cares less for your dedication to the team especially if you are a foreigner. Basically, if you perform well, you will be there. Its based on performance and not your dedication if you are a foreigner.

Hashemian:
Despite Hashemian's good performance, in my opinion, Hashemian should have never been invited to TeamMelli the way it happened. the blame is not on Hashemian to come to TeamMelli at all. Its on people who brought him in the way we did.

Hashemisn or any other player for that matter should decide on their own. For a frikkin reason, they should decide if they want to be a part of it, or they want to stay out. Hashemian's invitation made the "atmosphere" calm a bit. But it ruined the future of our football in one way. When you do such a thing, you virtually create people like Mobali and karimi. The perfect "abuse" scenario.

Karimi:
A by product of a deficient culture and Hashemian. a rebel by all means. A person at a wrong time and a wrong place.

Karimi was injured. Thats true. But, if he was a patriot as many of you portray him, he should have excused himself from the team when he realized that he can not play well.

For Karimi this world cup meant nothing. Karimi is a sort of player who deos not give a damn about his football as a means of bringing excitement to the football lovers. He does what he does for himself. He has never been a "achiever" either. If it was not for his manager and his ambitions, he woukd have stayed in UAE for years. He was earning his money, and he dribbled them left and right.

Karimi knew that this world cup absolutely means nothing for his future prospects. His contract was extended and he knew that once you are in German market, your performance in that market determines your ultimate value.

Karimi, characteristically, does not give a shit about progress either. I bet you, he will be in bayern for as long as possible and then his carrier will end. He will not be competitive anymore.

4/ As for evidence. Football has two sides. There is a side that if one does not have enough knowledge about, you cant judge. One has to have inside knowledge about it. This side is the "reason" side of the football. It means, you see something, but you can not know the reason.

The other side of football is what is being seen by the expectators. Among them are "baghal", "chaghal", sport person, student, 12 year old , 90 yera old individuals.

So basically, when I watch a game of football, I can see, but i cant judge with confidence of why I see what I see.

Just by watching, one can easily compare football levels, football desire, fighting spirit of a team. Just by watching, you could see all of that at its highest in many teams in world cup 2006 (like Trinidad & Tobago for example as the most inexperienced ones), but you could not see it in TeamMelli.

Foreigners call this a teams "desire", "fighting spirit" or "stamina". In farsi we sum all up and call it "gheyrat". I do agree that this is not an exact translation that can be used. Gheyrat is a strong word in farsi. We should avaoid using it in football. But basically and for today, this is also among one the flaws that should be corrected.

Therefore, its ok to have an opinion in what you see. But when it comes to why's and one wants to religiously defend it, one needs evidence.

5/ Dadkan and Branko never attributed success to their name. There not a shred of evidence for that. I never recall any of them to use any other word than "we".

Branko was a pure gentelman. He ALWAYS defended his players. He NEVER talked a single thing against any of his players.

Dadkan however is also a victim of "jahl" in Iran. When "PEOPLE" see football only within the framework of "Certain Players" and fail to see a "TEAM", one has to come out and defend his rights. One has to tell people what has been done to "TRY" to create such a success. Ofcourse, in the end, success is Mellat e Iran's. But we need to learn that reaching it is an outcome of a very, very hard work by many, "including but not limitted to Players".

Since we have absolutely no understanding of a "Teamwork" accross our culture, we fail to mention it. When that happens, there is a need for someone to come up and say " Namak nashnasee ham haddi dareh".

Mer30
Soheil

[Doctor DOOM]

soheil jan,
what you wrote about karimi's lack of desire to progress and not being an achivment-oreited player brings me back to what I used to say 2-3 years back. while many friends here , who nowadays have propped him as "THE" culprit in our WC fiasco ( and quite wrongly ), vehemently denied and refused to acknowledge this attitude in him !!

I guess, it IS true: what goes around, will surely come around.



================

as for the claim that neither dadkan nor branko "attributed success to their names", my dear friend, regretabely I must say you are wrong.

on COUNTLESS occasions we have seen these two fools BOAST about bringing up Iran's ranking in fifa ( something so horribely out of sync with reality that needed changing. and change it did )
or how they supposedly were the most successful federation/coach ever ( I supposed based on some hollow and false "numbers" that meant nothing and didnt refer to any quality , and in some instances , no truth either ).

yes, my freind.
these two really MILKED it while they could.
milked it to the maximum ... and expected ppl & fans to be fools to not see the truth behind such hollow claims.
they treated the fans as clueless ( shows in their replies and comments on several press conf's ) ... never knwoing that fans WILL know.
sooner or later.



also the fact that despite his own claims that he will leave the IFF after the WC, dadkan has brought the matters to such a point that we risk sanctions by fifa by staying on and still fighting the will of people ( mardeh va harfesh , I guess. eh? )!

now, this S.O.B. refuses to move or go , even at the cost of all iranian football teams getting banned !!
laj baazi , ta in hadd?

is this selfish scum, dadkan, even defendable?
I refuse to think so.

[smanhoobi]

Ok Doki jaan:

I tried to explain this in my last post. "Namak Nashnasee" brings about "laj baazee". If one keeps degrading something, people defend themselves. This happens in this board too. I do it, you do it, everybody does this. We defend our positions and we tend to bring evidences for it.

No matter how ridiculous this FIFA ranking is/was , it was a very important feature. In an article I explained that when a team has a higher ranking, it brings with it higher chances of getting invited in tournaments and being in the position to invite good teams.

Yes, we did not use this opportunity. But I believe, the maximum that could be done, was done. What you see did not happen, could not happen.

When a person or entity is faced with a one sided approach to an issue, they tend to take the opposite side. And thats what has happened which is assumed by you as a selfish attribution of everything to them.

The people you mention had amply experience in these matters and specially in football. They know that whatever they may do, it always comes down to players performances. So any success is not their success alone. Players are one of the most important aspect of it. But they are NOT the only factor.

However, people disregarded this. So, there came a need to point this out when people totally disregarded things that has been done. But, in the end, people did not understand this. And the unsuccessful outcome of world cup came down on a few individuals.

No Doki jaan. Infact, we always and wrongfully attributed all success to players and all failures to "head of IFF" and the "coach". The flaw is here. Not the way you explained in my opinion.

Doki jaan:
FIFA has a rule. If our country is "khar too khar" others can not accept all of our BS's. For us to move towards accepting rules and regulations, we need a move.

Dadkan is defending his rights. He worked very hard in his term. You may all disagree, but, based on what he could do, he did everything that is right in his mind. And he did it genuinly. He also always applied all the rules and regulations set forward in our own league.

Een ghayeh ali abadi is disregarding an international rule. And it is Dadkan's every right to pursue his own rights based on the rules.

Again, we are sacrificing a short term success or a much bigger and proper future. We should not do that. If there is any "vazeefeyeh Melli", it is what Dadkan "might" do. I support him 100%.

Football in Iran may have a "tashkheese maslehat e nezaam". Football at international level does not "recognize" that as legitimate. It does not recognize it in Iran. They dont recognize it in Greece.

And anybody who does anything to change on that basis, is doing a fine job in my book. Although it may all seem odd and against a short term success.

Cheers
Soheil

[BehzadB]

..............................

Well I am glad my post made you write some more. It's always good to read your posts.


1. soeil jan in F+ at least, everyone knows that our problems go byond Daie/branko and Dadkan. But Daie/Branko /Dadkan were the THREE most important names in our football for 4 years untill the WC ended. What's more important to talk about in the WC year? Them three or the condition of our stadiums?

2. Soheil jan you didn't need to specifically name them. it was too obvious that you are talking about the likes of karimi, VH and Kia. You had used the term "Except Daie".

3. Let me make it short. As I said before, Palyers who are looking forward to the money in Europe might and perhaps will SAVE themselves in Asian games or friendly games. But in WC games? I don't believe that. And if they do they are not very smart. becuase Contracts are mostly 2 or 3 year terms. If you performe in a WC, your next contract will reflect that.


I don't agree with you about Hashemian. Hashemian is a GREAT lesson for ALL the young kids to learn from. We screwed up about him. He did nothing wrong.

If you want to realize his greatness consider this:

When did Hashemian come back? When did he say OK, I accept? After months and years of calling him. And after him rejecting us for that long. Why did he come back at the time that he did after rejecting us for so long? to get an offer from EU? Why did he say ok at that point? he could have waited to see if we beat Jordan and make it to the second round and then come back, but he didn't.

Was he stupid to take that kind of a risk? he didn't need the Team, the fame or the money. He already had achieved what ALL younger and OLDER Iranian palyers were dreaming about. So then what gives? What made him come back after all that. What happend to that Stubborn Iranian pride that makes all of us so rigid and inflexable?

The only reason he came back was because He knew that people would be gravely heartbroken and devastated if we were eleminated in the first round of WCQ. TM was in serious trouble and needed an emotional boost. he sets his "ghroor" aside, he eats his own words and he holds his head up and comes back. I say Bravo, VH.

I call that sacrifice. you call it a mistake! I call that greatness you call it a bad lesson.

He actually forgave US for what we did to him and asked nothing in retrun. he comes back and plays out of position so a 38 year old, usless player like Daie can have his spot and his minutes. He says nothing. he just shuts up and plays his game. You go find another player in the World in his position that would not blast the crap out of his coach for that decision. But he said NOTHING. that's just how he is.

I consider that a great story for others to learn from, And you consider his story to be "bad apple" (Karimi is a by product of Hashemian?)

I wish we were that lucky to have karimi as a by product of Hashemian. I wish he had 50 by products of hashemian.

But don't worry my friend. the Likes of Hashemian will leave us alone sooner than you can say Daie.

[smanhoobi]

Bebeen Behzad jaan:

In any given day, I put Hashemian way above Karimi.

I was in PFDC when there was a collective decision to bann Hashemian's news from PFDC. I was probably the only one who was against that. Because, I thought, it is everyone's right to step aside at a proper time. Unlike Karimi, he had problems with IFF or certain people. So he said, I cant attend teammelli and play for such an organization.

What we needed to do was to stay calm. Dont call him a traitor. Leave him alone and still love him and support him for what he still does for this country. At the same time, for each selection, invite him. INVITE him and not virtually beg him. Just let him know that we still love him, want him in teammelli and we leave it to him to decide on the purpose by which he would agree to play again.

But we did not do that. We virtually went after him with excessive request. THAT was the problem. Not that he was wrong for the team. BUT because he returned the way he returned. That set a bad example for others. It showed to all that a PLAYER has a last say. That their action will be disregarded and we always go back to them because we NEED them.

When I call Karimi as a by-product of Hashemian, I do not mean the person himself. But I mean the by-product of how powerful a player can be to do what he wants and when he wants.

Karimi does not have a tenth of Hashemian's class and education. If he did, when he was against this team's coaching staff, he would excuse himself from Teammelli at a proper time just like Hashemian. But Karimi chose to use his power to basically destroy the teams organization single handedly. Cause he saw Hashemian and realized how strong a player can be. It showed how badbakht we are that we do anything for a player like him. He learned from Hashemian's "incident" that he can go one step further and decide the faith of a team in his OWN way. Plus a few other mistakes here and there.

And Behzad jaan. Before Hashemian can ever leave us, Ali Daei already did. Not from the football field. But almost from our lives. A leader will always be a leader.

[Doctor DOOM]

soheil jan, just a note on dadkan and his supposed "good intentions and meaning" !

they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

this may be true in dadkan's case.
although his final laj baazis and disregard of all the vivid signs on TM's quality leaves me wondering if that is true at all.

so whatever "good intentions" he may have had, they all come to naught, becoz his deeds and words damaged us far more.





and btw, he didnt achieve much.
-at youth level his fed'n showed incompetence beyond what we have seen in the recent past fed'ns

-in asian club level, he was the absolute WORST performer as the head of IFF, with his lack of support, snubbing clubs representing iran at asia, ...etc.

-at national level, he and branko GOT PLAIN LUCKY to get such an easy group with even easier qualifying odds.
so what does he have to back his tenure?
close to nothing

[VivaItalia]

Who else still think that he is the best?

huuuuum

[ird28]

Who else still think that he is the best?

huuuuum

I do!


what are you trying to reach with that comment anyway?

[maij]

[Paradigm]

Well so far GN has been getting the results... All else aside, I am very happy he is constantly trying out new players. It's not like Branko era that we only had a fixed 11, plus 3 usual subs!

[Hajagha]

Haji Joon...

This is quite amazing coming from you.......It is as close as possible to a one sided biased point of view collected in favor of an individual...as close as possible to a political propaganda during an election , I would say!!!!!

I do not necessary disagree with all of it , despite some irrelevant facts/views....If this to be believed , then Iran has a perfect coach !!!! the reality is otherwise , though.

Today , a bunch of highly paid professional struggled to beat a fourth or fifth tier Asian team (Taiwan) mostly amateurs. Under GN , the only match that I was impressed was the win against Iraq…that is it!

I , on the other hand , think that the man is not up to standard of Team Melli's aspiration.....If defeating the like of mediocre Asian teams , is all what Iran is aiming at , then you might be right , he is good enough .

Let's see it another way,

Do you think those highly paid professional players, who struggled, doing good in their clubs too?

Our weakest link is not the national team coach. That's why by bringing a coach who has nothing but a resume and has no idea about Iranian football, our performance won't improve over night.

What I see from Qalenoei is the constant testing new formations for our weaknesses, he showed he has no grudge for any player and let them perform. I haven’t seen yesterday's game yet but from what I read, I concluded If we can't score against the minor teams with what we have, we may need a dozen players from Brazil instead of a coach.

Reality my friend, reality.

Cheers,

[Ali Chicago]

Let's see it another way,
Do you think those highly paid professional players, who struggled, doing good in their clubs too?
Our weakest link is not the national team coach. That's why by bringing a coach who has nothing but a resume and has no idea about Iranian football, our performance won't improve over night.
What I see from Qalenoei is the constant testing new formations for our weaknesses, he showed he has no grudge for any player and let them perform. I haven’t seen yesterday's game yet but from what I read, I concluded If we can't score against the minor teams with what we have, we may need a dozen players from Brazil instead of a coach.
Reality my friend, reality.
Cheers,

I was somewhat dissappointed with him getting all the legioners to Taiwan and not taking a chance on a new breed of players, but then realized he didn't have much a choice because, the team list 3/4 of it was sent to AFC on Nov 2005 and he didn't have much of choice for the most part.

Korea last year with a forgin coach I think tied Maldeeve in Maldeeve. Maldive is the team that we beat 17 goals in one game. What does thsi mean? Korea's coach needs to be fired or he isn't good? No, one needs to look at the trend of the team. If it is improving then we need to keep the coach and if not get rid of him. But a trend doesn't start with one game and ends there. A trend at least needs 6 months baba.

One thing I am amazed with, that how a single game with poor result is judged totally against the Coach. GN isn't my family or anything, but whoever will be the coach of the TM needs to be judged at least on a 6 month to 1 year bases. The way, many people have already made their mind toward him at best is unfair in my opinion.

Italy's coach lost a couple of games adn they aren't doing well right now in their UEFA qualification and Donadoni probably doesn't get that much criticizem as GN is getting.

Also I really don't undrestand this obsession with Coach only. A soccer program is much much more than just coach. From Sarparast to the Federation to the soccer infrastructure to the players,..... . Why we are so obsessed with coach only. I wish people were spending only 10% of the energy they put on GN or even Branko to focus on other problems of our soccer. Out national team player Fekri who is supposedly is Capitan of the EsEs, doesn't know the basic of how to deal with the ref and he himself is a constant cause of contention and poisning of the stadium atmosphere. Or EsEs and PP players haven't been paid their last year salary, and still somehow player's contract are in 300 million. Isn't that funny? Maybe IPL needs Salary Cap!!! PP hasnt' paid their player's salary and still goes to the camp in Austria and goes more in red. These are the problems of our football too and if anyone thinks by just bringing a forigen coach these all will be solved it is just a daydream.

It is funny the so called supporters of forigen coache at any price, see the recent examples of Haan in PP , Lorant in Saipa, Gadeh in Shaheed Ghandi, Branko's step brother in Barghe Shiraz, Beghovitch in Pegah and PP and still all they want is a forgine coach.

I am not against a forgien coach by any means, but in this current climate, finding a decent first class coach isn't possible. So, all I am saying we need to do with what we have and support him and criticize him but in a positve way. In the mean time we can still look around and try to find a really first class coach. Not anyone who happen to be a coach and he must be better because he wasn't born in Iran.

[xoraster]

Korea last year with a forgin coach I think tied Maldeeve in Maldeeve. Maldive is the team that we beat 17 goals in one game. What does thsi mean? Korea's coach needs to be fired or he isn't good? .

Actually, their coach got fired shortly after that, the press and the public were all over him since such a result is unacceptable so yes, he did get fired!

[Ali Chicago]

Actually, their coach got fired shortly after that, the press and the public were all over him since such a result is unacceptable so yes, he did get fired!

Even if that was the case that firign was just on that one game? I am sure no. See Korean Federation right now is pressuring Pim Verbeek to recall under 23 team players for the game against Iran and Verbeek is not quite happy with that, because he is worried about the short term and worried if team doesn't do well, his neck is on the line.
This is type of approach they Korean Federation take a long term view with undrestanding that in short term there is a price to pay. I am sure Korean IFF doesn't expect Korean team win every game.

Korea just lost to Ghana 3-1 in Korea. Do you see Pim Verbeek's head on the chopping block!!!!! I am not saying we shouldn't be firing any coaches and keep them forever. All I am sayign is we have to judge them based on a period of time and not one or two games.

Even Arab countries that were infamous for firing the coach after one bad loss are learning and they don't do that as much. Remember who Ivitch got fired after the TM loss to Roma on 98. What a gem we lost, why, because unfortunatly, in Iran federation most fans and people in general don't think long term and simply react to their emotions.

[VivaItalia]

Italy's coach lost a couple of games adn they aren't doing well right now in their UEFA qualification and Donadoni probably doesn't get that much criticizem as GN is getting.

.

Believe me brother, he was almost executed, here is the proof:


Italy's players have dedicated their 2-0 victory against Ukraine to coach Roberto Donadoni, who finally ended his four-match wait for a win in Rome on Saturday.
Managerial 'scapegoat'
Juventus goalkeeper Buffon led the tributes to the under-fire coach following the UEFA EURO 2008™ Group B success. "Donadoni has faced unfair criticism after our recent performances and we dedicate this result to him," said Buffon. "He was unfairly used as a scapegoat and we won for him." ACF Fiorentina striker Luca Toni, who scored the second goal, added: "I was pleased for Donadoni, who has been going through a tough period, like all of us."
'Great group'
Donadoni took over from Marcello Lippi after the Azzurri's FIFA World Cup triumph, beginning his reign with a 2-0 friendly defeat by Croatia. Their UEFA EURO 2008™ qualifying campaign continued in similar fashion, a 1-1 home draw against Lithuania being closely followed by a 3-1 loss in France. Donadoni, though, commended his side's spirit. "I'd like to thank my players for their kind words," he said. "I like their attitude, and I especially like the spirit that exists among them. They are a great group."
Georgia in mind