Team Melli - Syria game

[Ali Chicago]

Yashar Jaan

To be honest I am very disappointed with your posting. I guess I expected more from you. It sounds like you were just kind of itching for TM to not do well and you come here and claim " I told you so".

Let's don't forget Branko lost two games to Jordan and Maccedonia in Tehran (Azadi). No one made a big deal out of that at that time (not that they should have anyways).

First of all, as DD said, GN at least has the guts to take the blame. Read Iranian papere, he said, he is to blame. His players did what he wanted from them. This is someone who at least has integrity. Compare that with Branko, that blamed everything and everyone but himself. To him even the world cup fiasco wasnt' anythign to worry about and Iran did ok in WC.
Let's don't forget Branko's team lost in Azadi to Jordan and Maccedonia. No one made a huge deal out of that in that time which they shouldn't have anyways.

Secondly, Branko had 5 years, let's give GN 5 months. Iran didnt' play well yesterday, but this was against a team that played exactly like Angola in WC, packed defense. No team can play a beautiful game against a team that defends with like 9 players in their half. Iran scored two goals that were offside but very close. So game could have been easily 3-1 or even 5 -1 if you consider Kia's shot that the goalie barely saved and the shot that Nekoonam missed in 93-94th minutes in 6 yards. So if it comes to result only, this team isn't very different from the so called Branko's team.

Thrid, Branko wouldn't have dared to play without Rezai, Karimi, Dai, Zandi, Hashemian. These guys are doing Naaz for Iran and I respect GN for telling them to go to hell. If it was Branko he would have bent backward for them to play. GN has so much prinicipals to not doing it. Here I would like to thank Mahdavi Kia that seems to put the national interest above everythign else and probably despite not liking some issues with TM still like a soilder in war front reporting for each national duty.

And finally, one more time, assume GN sucks as you claim. Ok, at least after this experience he learn at least a few things. And that stays with an Iranian coach. It becomes part of the Iranian coaching experience and GN one day will use it during his coaching in Iran. Can we say the samething about Branko?
You see people like you have a not realistic view about foriegn coaches. Didn't Arie Haan experience teach us anything? Read what his assistant say now in Iranian papers. Young said that Arie haan told him, we are going to Iran to take over Iranian national team. When supposedly he came to coach Perspolice. Do you remember when Denizli left Tehran very close to important games for Paas. If it was an Iranian most probably he wouldnt' have done that. Lot of our players havent' been paid for months and still show up and play and all. That is the difference between an Iranian Vs. Non Iranian. Again, if we could bring lieks of Scolari to Iran it would have been a different story (and in this climiate of political and financial situation in Iran, we never can or will). If it is between a second class wanna be like Haan or Denizlie and GN, I rather loose with an Iranian, that way at least the guy learns something in the process.

Again, If " I told you so" was coming from a 18 year old in the general forum, I would not have been surprised. But I expected much more from you.

[Doctor DOOM]

Yashar jan,
I didn’t say I need 5 years for GN to show his efficiency for me to formulate my opinion on his efficiency as TM coach.
Neither do I need a whole year to do so.
ordinarily, under normal circumstances, I would say 4-5 months is a fair deal for an Iranian, who has played in Iran, knows our football and players , and has led a club at our league. ( such circumstances do NOT apply for foreign coaches who come to Iran, of course. So plz don’t misread the above ).

I said “ordinarily” , coz I know these are NOT ordinary circumstances.
He just got the appointment, and he faces 3 crucial games.
I guess life’s not fair, and GN just cant get a break!

Unfortunately he is in this situation, and I totally understand why for example Jalali didn’t accept the position ( or even the candidacy for the post ), as I’m sure he was aware of the difficult situation he’d be put in.

Anyway, GN has to get it right , and extraordinarily quick.
If he fails, does it mean he’s no good?
Never.
I don’t think had he ample time to work with the team, he’d have done so badly.
So do I accuse him of being incompetent?
I will not.



2- you keep comparing the two and I just, for the life of me, dont see even a miniscule of sense in comparing these two.
so I wont even address such comaprisons.

3- plz dont play with words.
democracy under branko?
heh !
that ought to be entered in the joke books.
I dont think you'd like my answer on this issue.



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majid jan, I wasn’t “surprised”.
I was extremely disgusted, though.
No matter how many times I see such behavior. It just never ceases to amaze me and remind me of how low our fan culture is in Iran !


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ali jan, I doubt anyone would want to come up with a "i told you so" argument, as nothing here backs such an argument.

like I said, if TM was in a normal situation and GN was given at least 5 months , and enough preparatory games & support ... THEN we could come up with such arguments, if he failed.

right now?
it's absurd to bring up "i told you so"s .

[faraz]

just finished watching the game...

i pretty much agree with all of your points dd...

a couple of extra things:

1 - the constant arguing and bickering from our 2 forwards is disgusting. every ball is expected to be played to them and one occasion (as dd has pointed out), khatibi does not notice he is in an offside position, intercepts a pass to the wing ,and then yells at Mobali!!! this is just ridiculous. i thought enayati had a pretty good game actually, but he didn't have any real chances to score...again, lack of a true playmaker or a number 10 really hurt us, especially before mobali came in, who i thought did well actually, and not as bad as some make it seem

2 - to sit kaebi on the bench is ludicrous. i couldn't believe he was on the sideline, and probably thinking to himself...WTF am i doing here...

3 - if anyone thought branko had no game plan, then i wonder what people say of this game. i have never seen such horrid co-ordination and touches ont he ball than this game. Mr. Shakouri doesn't even deserve to be on the reserve list and doesn't seem to realize that sometimes, controlling a football is like catching an egg - he is not tender and not completely reliable at the back. actually, the whole of our back line seemed out of synch sometimes. i don't know if we're an attacking side or a defending side. i don't exactly see if we play on the ground, or if we attack with long balls...i don't know whether we cross or try a through ball...it is as if we do everything at once and we do everything poorly


personally, i'd say another 3 games for Ghalenoie to instill his true philosophy (or w/e it is) and let the team settle down. it is still early to judge, but i really don't think he'll be the man controlling the team for much longer.

many of the "stubborn" attitudes that many of you said branko possessed, he possesses as well, not to mention his reliance on a bunch of esteghlal players who frankly shouldn't be on the team as well as the use of his 3-5-2 which does not suit modern football any longer.

i wish tm all the best in the future - it ain't gonna be pretty from the looks of it

[Doctor DOOM]

faraz jan, expecting coordination from this group is a bit too much and too early.

I agree, another 3 games, we shd be able to see ( or at least get strong enough indications ) the true potential of his leadership.


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shakouri did quite well against UAE, and was totally opposite of syria.
so I'll wait .
but I'd rather have kaabi

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actually most of the ss players did well in the game.
whom do you have in mind for ur criticism?
fekri was ok.
talebloo, acceptable
enayati, good
sadeghi pretty good
( kazemi came in too late. so no judgment on him )

so I dont see whom ur targetting as low performing.



====================

one major issue of the formation.

all those who go on talking about 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 , shd bear in mind a major, crucial factor.

we dont have time.

I repeat it, since I know many either dont acknowledge this very important fact, or just try not to accept it.

WE. DONT . HAVE. TIME.

which means we shd not behave as if we ought to "modernize" the team and instill this formation and that modern tactic in it ... when we have absolutely no time for these qualifiers.
( same thing applies to those who question the use of ss players , btw)

in such circumstances ( that many friends either omit or deny or forget ) a coach has to do what is more accepted among the players and general football of his region, and not try to devaite from what the players are used to and comfortable with.

this is not the time to "teach" or "revolutionize" or "inject modern thinking" or ... .

branko tried and tried , for 5 years and we still didnt have a reliable 4 back system.
I dont see any of you talk about that.

GN has had mere weeks, and I totally support his decision to go ahead with what the players are more comfortable with, rather than trying something new which throws everything into chaos.

come on ppl.
think a bit more before coming up with a series of numbers for this and that.




having said all that, I must say in many periods of the game, it did look like a 4-4-2 formation to me than 3-5-2.

shakouri and niki and right and left backs, with sadeghi and fekri in between.
so I dont see why ppl talk so much about 3-5-2 anyway.

yes, shakouri didnt have the offensive duties of kaabi, so we lacked in our attack on that side.
niki was also held back and kept as a defender more than anything else.
so this also reduced our peft side's capabilities.
( and niki and madanchi being out of form was "ghooz-e bala ghooz" !! )

[Ali Chicago]

A comment about fans

Everyone is critical of fans these days. As they dont' support the team and all.
Before I go any further I say it is wrong to jeer Nikki by the Blue fans cause he went to PP. But this is part of the football in everywhere in the world. It aint' logical, but football fans in most countries arent' among the most educated and intellectuals. They are amongst the poor and less fortunates and hence i am not surprised by some stuff I see.

So there are two issues. One is zelous short sighted fans (which btw is like 90% of fans in general in soccer). I attribute the Nikki's incident during the natioal game to this crowd.
Another issue is the progression of the fans due to internet and communication reveloution in 90s. As a result they want better product (soccer). I think it was Sharafi who supposedly said Iranian fans are way ahead of our football. People in this forum are a great example of this second phonomenon I am talking about.
I think our fans are seeign tons of games from the Channel 3 in Iran or abroad on tv. They see Bundesliga and La Liga and all and they have a baseline to compare, so when they see a sub par soccer (our Iranian Version) Vs. European soccer of course they don't get as enthusiastic.

Yashar mentioned early 90s 100k people waving Iranian flags and all. Our fans still fill the stadium for special occasion, Germany's national team game, BMunich game Vs. Perspolice or Iran Japan, and even Esteghlal final game that determined the championship, but not for every bloody game. Why? Because now there are so many venus for entertainment in Iran. At one time, there was soccer and nothing else. Now there is TV, internet, tons of other healthy and unhealthy entertainment, party thanks to Internet and Telecommunication reveloution.

I give you one example from USA. Los Angeles doesnt' have a NFL team. The team left LA and went to Saint Louis I think. It was LA RAMS and now it is Saint Louis Rams. Whereas GreenBay which is a little dinky town north of Wisconsin with like probably 300k people has a team in NFL (GreenBay Packers). Why? Cause people in LA never filled the stadium in LA. Whereas in Green Bay Wisconsion Green Bay Packers are the only game in town. Whereas in LA there are so many things to do, it is harder to get people to fill in all the stadium.
Now if you say this shouldnt' be that way that is a different story. I am merely tryign to see the reality and do something about the situation "the way it is" not the way "it is should/suppoed to be".

In a way, situation in Iran is the same, when I was a kid going to Amjadeieh was the biggest thing that could happen to me and I was stuck to watch Iranpock, Kalani, Mojdehi and Nayeb Agha, Like it or not.
Today my nephew in Iran who is only 10 (when I called him) was asking me "Uncle did you see B. Munich, ...... " game? "How Hargraves did such and such". Of course he is not satisfied with the Ali Asghari football and demands more. I think actually this is a very positive thing. Iranian soccer either has to improve to keep its fan base or it will eventually loose it.

[faraz]

dd jan,

as a central defender, i'd rather have nosrati to be honest, more so than sadeghi. also, i would have liked to see bakhtiarizadeh instead of fekri, who didn't perform BADLY, but what did they really have to do against Syria? not to mention, they weren't so good on the offside trap (letting the syrian forward in 1 on 1 with taleblou!)

taleblou did NOT perform well. if people were openly critical of mirza, then taleblou should face the same criticism for his display against syria. he really faced 3 shots, 1 he bundled but saved, the free kick he saved, and the corner (one of the few syrian corners) he was in NO MAN'S land...what makes this keeper different from Mirza?...on the contrary, he is young in the international stage and i hope he develops into a more calm and collected keeper...as for what i saw against syria, i'd probably rather have mirza in net against korea.

as far as the time issue goes, you are correct...we dont' have time.

but just b/c we dont' have time doesn't mean the core of the team should be esteghlal and we should play with esteghlal's formation! plus, if time is an issue, then we'll never go back to modern football...b/c we can keep saying there is no time right until the 2007 qualifiers...

what ghalenoie has done is COMPLETELY change TM before a crucial period of our football, rather than tweak certain areas that could have used tweaking...

now you tell me, which one would be a better choice (from the above) if we are SHORT on TIME?

and Ali jan,

nice points there about fans...

in the end though, it is our duty to put colours aside and focus on iran, and only iran when it comes to the national team. if our colours come first, what sort of iranians are we? i am a true blue, but i when it comes to TM, i love seeing a player like kazemian on the wing, lively and energetic..

[yashar_fasihnia]

To be honest I am very disappointed with your posting. I guess I expected more from you. It sounds like you were just kind of itching for TM to not do well and you come here and claim " I told you so".
Let's don't forget Branko lost two games to Jordan and Maccedonia in Tehran (Azadi). No one made a big deal out of that at that time (not that they should have anyways).
First of all, as DD said, GN at least has the guts to take the blame. Read Iranian papere, he said, he is to blame. His players did what he wanted from them. This is someone who at least has integrity. Compare that with Branko, that blamed everything and everyone but himself. To him even the world cup fiasco wasnt' anythign to worry about and Iran did ok in WC.
Let's don't forget Branko's team lost in Azadi to Jordan and Maccedonia. No one made a huge deal out of that in that time which they shouldn't have anyways.
Secondly, Branko had 5 years, let's give GN 5 months. Iran didnt' play well yesterday, but this was against a team that played exactly like Angola in WC, packed defense. No team can play a beautiful game against a team that defends with like 9 players in their half. Iran scored two goals that were offside but very close. So game could have been easily 3-1 or even 5 -1 if you consider Kia's shot that the goalie barely saved and the shot that Nekoonam missed in 93-94th minutes in 6 yards. So if it comes to result only, this team isn't very different from the so called Branko's team.
Thrid, Branko wouldn't have dared to play without Rezai, Karimi, Dai, Zandi, Hashemian. These guys are doing Naaz for Iran and I respect GN for telling them to go to hell. If it was Branko he would have bent backward for them to play. GN has so much prinicipals to not doing it. Here I would like to thank Mahdavi Kia that seems to put the national interest above everythign else and probably despite not liking some issues with TM still like a soilder in war front reporting for each national duty.
And finally, one more time, assume GN sucks as you claim. Ok, at least after this experience he learn at least a few things. And that stays with an Iranian coach. It becomes part of the Iranian coaching experience and GN one day will use it during his coaching in Iran. Can we say the samething about Branko?
You see people like you have a not realistic view about foriegn coaches. Didn't Arie Haan experience teach us anything? Read what his assistant say now in Iranian papers. Young said that Arie haan told him, we are going to Iran to take over Iranian national team. When supposedly he came to coach Perspolice. Do you remember when Denizli left Tehran very close to important games for Paas. If it was an Iranian most probably he wouldnt' have done that. Lot of our players havent' been paid for months and still show up and play and all. That is the difference between an Iranian Vs. Non Iranian. Again, if we could bring lieks of Scolari to Iran it would have been a different story (and in this climiate of political and financial situation in Iran, we never can or will). If it is between a second class wanna be like Haan or Denizlie and GN, I rather loose with an Iranian, that way at least the guy learns something in the process.
Again, If " I told you so" was coming from a 18 year old in the general forum, I would not have been surprised. But I expected much more from you.

ok, ali jan, first of all,sorry to disappoint u.

secondly, like i said myself, yes, with branko we lost to borh jordan and macedonia (both of whom can beat this syrian team) but people here said, dont just look at statistics and let the numbers fool and stuff. look at the game and u will know remember???
now how come nobody wants to look at the game but isntead is comparing statistics like branko lost to jordan and macedonia, ghalenoi did too.
the day we lost to jordan in azadi, not only jordan was much stronger and at its peak but we also created around 20 chances if i remember correctly. we were unlucky not one ball went in.
now wat about the syria game?? how many real chances did we create?
did u see our game? a stupid crossing the ball from anywhere on the field system for enayati and khatibi among the huge syrian defenders!
just look at the game, compare it with the jordan game and tell me if i disappointed u!
and while we are at it, lets see if ghalenoi can get the good results branko got like 2-2 against croatia or 5-2 against bosnia??
u really think ghalenoi WILL EVER after 5 years with TM will be able to get these 2 results with this current players, and knowledge of his???


no, ali jan, i was not hoping TM would lose so i would say "i told u so"
why would i wanna do that??? at the expense of my coutnry getting eliminated in the asian qualifiers!!!
people here "khodeshuno jer midadan" cos they were afraid iran would have a disaster performance in the worldcup?/
but guess wat, now iran is on the verge of having a disasterous performance in ASIAN QUALIFIERS!!!
when was the last time iran didnt qualify to asian cup!! more than 4 decades ago if im not mistaken.
hala begu hagh jer dadane khodamo nadaram!!!

i never said ghalenoi didnt take the blame.
but i have been following ghalenoi for 3 whole years cos he was my favortie clubs coach.
he always whined when he lost.
yes, this game, he blamed himself, but trust me, there is a difference when u accept the blame today when ur new and when u blame urself aftera year or so when u start getting bad results as well, the media gets pissed about u, critiques start stating their dis satisfication about u, etc.
i wanna see if ghalenoi will admit it was his fault a year from now or 2, if god forbid, we lose to a poor team. i can guarantee u 99% he wont!
besides, im definite 101% sure the reason ghalenoi even admitted himself was not because he was a professional or some ethical person, but only because he and haj agha maelli kohan always blamed branko of not accepting the blame, playing players out of position, choosing daei, etc.
if u noticed, ghalenoi has done everything the opposite of wat branko did.
people say he is not using kaabi because of lajbaazi with branko.
he didnt invite daei although u cant deny the fact that daei would have been more effective in todays game than that useless khatibi!
he didnt invite zandi while branko went all the way to germany and convicned him of it.
people here claim that ghalenoi is just trying to do wat branko didnt do.
SO i CLAIM, this too, is just one of those things which branko didnt do and so ghalenoi is making sure he does it, so that people will think, oh, he has integrity, he is not a wimp like branko!
YES SURE!! dream on amir khan!!

ur right that syria played a totally tight defensive game.
and yes, ghalenoi needs more time, and will be and should be given more time!
nobody said no, neither did i. i am supporting him, no matter wat and i have said it in the ghalenoi support therad as well.
however, remember, we are on the verge of getting knocked out in asian qualifiers, so we should keep an eye on this matter as well!
im not asking for ghalenoi's head, all im saying is, u people compare iran's game under branko with that of ghalenoi's and be ur own judge.
the next game is with korea anywayz. i just hope we dont lose with a goal difference of 3 or more!! seriously!!!

well, maybe branko was a wimp and didnt dare to paly without our legionnaires but atleast he made sure we don get disqualified in ASIAN QUALIFIERS!!

Next, so u dont mind giving ghalenoi experience at the cost of asian cup huh??/
i guess we have totally different views then!

hehehehhee, its interesting that ur telling me about ariee haan cos each and every thread about arie haan,
1)first i have stated my disgust for him cos his main intention for coming to iran was to take over TM. mikhast az abe gelalud mahi begire.
2)he is not a great coach. he was a great player but not a great coach specially when people were saying ariee haan should become the next TM coach.
U dont believe me, u can ask any perspolis about it. maybe ali_vigh or someone or just search for it.
i am not a vatan furush, im not a khareji parast, im an admirer of TM, and my understanding of iranian football and non-football issues states that branko was the best iran could have currently. Thats it. why is it so hard for people to understand this??

U know, the problem is not that u were expecting more from me, the problem is u dont know me. u are telling me haan this, haan that, while i was the one in the football forum going against him and claiming he came to iran just to go to the worldcup with iran. once the worldcup was over, why would he wanna leave other offers for irans??

and one more thing, i will take any coach who WILL ATLEAST GET US TO ASIAN CUP NOW!! iranian or non-iranian doesnt matter.
we should keep a balance between the present and the future. u say an iranian coach who can atleast gain some experience for our future good, i say ok, BUT AS LONG AS WE DONT SACRIFICE OUR PRESENT FOR HIM!!
there is a fine thin line somewhere which makes sure we know wat we are doing.

If an iranian coach cant avoid a disaster,make him an assistant coach to a coach who can atleast guarantee us a sport in asian cup 2007. this way, we dont face a disaster, and our coach gets his experience at the same time!!

im sorry to disappoint ur expectations but i think u need to know me better before u make sure u have the right expectations from me.

P.S. dont even start about the offside goals in syria or the chances nekounam ork hatibi missed cos its ridiculous. if u wanna talk about missed chances, maybe i should remind u about hashemian's missed chance against mexico, teymourian against portugal, zandi's 1 on 1 with angola and daei's header wide over the empty angola goal or even the numerous chances iran had against jordan and macedonia including the 1 on 1 karimi had against macedonia.

[yashar_fasihnia]

doctor jan, i understand wat ur trying to say, and u r right, and i know it too.
we shouldnt be expecting much from ghalenoi.

but then again doctor jan, at the expense of GETTING KNOCKED OUT IN THE ASIAN QUALIFIERS???

thats something i as an iranian cant buy!
a failure in the worldcup, i can live with,
but a failure in the ASIAN QUALIFIERS?? i dont think even u can live with!