Why are people being SO stubborn?

[Doctor DOOM]

so it is amateurish and one-diemnsional to criticise/question bush over his iraq policy and non-existent WMD agenda ... coz we're just regular ppl and he is the prez !!

if football resembles something like nuclear science to X, it doesnt mean Y also sees it that way.
it really does NOT take a rocket scientist to see the defects in a football game and team.

and if these defects are REPEATED again and again, and then the coach comes and says there are no problems and we play very well .... then those who SUPPORT this dogmatic person, in DENIAL of truth, are the one-dimensional ones who just follow no matter what the issue .... , who accept whatever rubbish that is thrown in front of them .
just becoz they think football is nuclear physics and to understand it , it takes triple Phd's !!!!!

we have to settle for two players who CLEARLY are out of their correct roles ( zareh and nosrati ) , and accept repeated mistakes and weak performnaces by them .... but never ask why we dont put someone who actually plays in LB role in his club !!
we cannot question why amirabadi , who did very well during those measely few minutes he got, is not brought in for the next game, to at least change our views on branko's irrational and dogmatic lajbaaz attitude , who likes to play "names" and not correct players !

apparently, it takes a Phd in physical training to think : "I dont need to test ANY alternatives for a GK position, even against pisspoor oppositions like n korea, panama, lybia, .... , since just by looking at them I know who is fit to be my main keeper's alternative.
never mind the fact that I keep changing the keeper selection continuously !!"

and we , fans, since we dont have that Phd degree , are unnecessarily worried about a possible injury to mirza , and the prospects of bringing .... ummm.... X for him.
( Note : we cant even NAME the sub, since the GK's position has changed so many times, with so many names, without any serious trial, that even kaabi could be an alternative !!!!!!!!! )

[faraz]

MR jan - one other thing. It is extremely difficult to be "respectful and humble" when Iran gets beaten in Azadi stadium by Macedonia B. That is, at least for me, where I can no longer contain myself in being "respectful and humble" because there is something SERIOUSLY wrong, whether or not the players messed up, the coach should take responsibility as well.

[smanhoobi]

soheil jan, the lack of motivation is most apparent in many cases of first team players.
I agree any player will be motivated to "PLAY IN THE WC"... but that is NOT what we are saying.
we all are sure ANY player is hyped up and raring to go , but we are bothered about the complacency that has already set in, taken root and is creeping further inside, that has led to many main team players lose form, or get complacent.

Doki jaan;

Loss of form has nothing to do with TM. Players are with their clubs over 98% of the season. If they loose form, they loose it there.

TM is a place for 22 players. 22 Players who fit into number of factors. Those factors are determined by the coaching staff and their vision.

To the day that the camp starts before world cup, all our starters will give only 50% of their potentials. Even when the camp starts, they will increase that to 70% may be. Not more. Thats natural. Completely natural in a professional team and a professional player.

Physically, many legionaires are in top of their form. So TM does not do anything in that sense to them.Hence, the practices are taken very easy.The rest of IPL players may have lack of form. But bringing them to form is not TM's job or Branko's and it is absolutely unnecessary for TM to do that today. Waste of time.Complete waste.

So why they should even play now? Good question. But it has an answer. Cause right now, even their 50% potential brings about valuable information on them.And why legionnaires? First, many players have been tried so far. But even our legionnaires do make silly mistakes and those should be spotted.Playing in BM, Prugia, Hamburg, Hannover does not mean that you are an all around, flawless player. it means you are good, but you can still have numerous problems in the system that TM plays and in general.

Thanks
Soheil

[smanhoobi]

MR jan - one other thing. It is extremely difficult to be "respectful and humble" when Iran gets beaten in Azadi stadium by Macedonia B. That is, at least for me, where I can no longer contain myself in being "respectful and humble" because there is something SERIOUSLY wrong, whether or not the players messed up, the coach should take responsibility as well.

Agha Faraz:

We never played against Macedonia B team to win the game. Who said we did? Who?

Macedonia and Togo games were not WCQ games. They were warm up games. Games that we played with 50% of the potential of TM players and with the agenda to test a few things here an there. Noone would be disappointed if we would win. But, even winning, had no importance at all.

As Human explained, TM is now in the second phase of their roadmap and first phase of their preparation to world cup.Any game that we play from last Japan game onwards was not meant to be a game that we HAD to absolutely win. Simple as that.In the second phase, we try to give players the least amount of tactics and instructions to gather information about their natural abilities and their ups and downs in different situations. If you listen to Human, he confirmed that too.

What you see is a systematic approach. Hell no. After all of this , we wont be world champions just because we approached things SYSTEMATICALLY.Neither we will have any gaurentee for even ONE win in World Cup. But who cares what will happen then. We need to do what is right at this very moment with the hope that things will work out as a result of this approach.

And you ask me? My fingers crossed that it will. Hope we have a bit of luck at our side too. Ozr meekham. Vali team hayeh tooyeh Jaame Jahaanee, HICHKODOOMESHOON, "peshgel" neestand bekhoda. They are as good as us to get there. Including Togo and Australia.My hats off to all of the teams who participates in World Cup. And whoever we gonna play against, I may not pee my pants, but I make sure I visit the bathroom frequently.

[faraz]

Soheil Jan, I'm with you on that one (the washroom...).

A note: We played with all of our main players. This was the full-fledged Iranian squad. NO ONE was missing. IT was our WC team. We can talk about 50% of our potential, but that should even be enough to beat the team. By the way, as soon as Paraguay won against Togo, it should have been Iran's priority to win the match (from what I saw, that's what we were after anyways - why else would we be using our TOP players, aside from increasing cohesion). To play Paraguay would have been much tougher than Togo. Just my personal opinion.

[Martin-Reza]

Faraz jan, I didn't mean we need to shut up no matter what. Just in short: every fan is entitled to say the team played like crap and much more - as long as it is directed on the performance, the clear output. But a fan turns to an idiot the moment he believes to know all about what needs to be done by people much more competent than himself.

I can no longer contain myself in being "respectful and humble" because there is something SERIOUSLY wrong

I think the important part that differs your critisizm here from the kind of critisizm I am really sick of, is the word right ahead of the one you put in capitals. You are angry and correctly note there was SOMETHING seriously wrong. That is your right to state that and it is your right to say the coach as responsible person for the sporting output can be blamed for that. But there are some funny people who believe this something is one and mostly very obvious thing they discovered but a pro coaching staff who is payed for analyzing that something doesn't see. Now that is just ridiculous. Of course we are here to discuss about that "something" and it's funny to do so, but often we shouldn't take ourselves and our analysis too seriously.

so it is amateurish and one-diemnsional to criticise/question bush over his iraq policy and non-existent WMD agenda ... coz we're just regular ppl and he is the prez !!

Now you once more try to simplify everything with a rather unsuiting comparison. Noone said you must not critisize, but you shouldn't talk about exact decisions which someone more competent than you should take. You have no clue what the more competent person has to worry about, yet you think some simple solution is due and the expert is an idiot for not knowing that.

The simplification is a pattern that is often spotted in your approaches in my opinion. I know you disagree, but there is one wrong player responsible for failure, there is the coach as one entitiy responsible for Iran not playing fine combinations, etc.

Just as small comment on the Bush/Iraq matter. On one hand the concerns mostly are of humanitarian kind - something Bush and his Staff surely isn't more expert than you and me, so it is not compareable with thinking to be cleverer than an expert. On the other their interests might interfere with those of others (while Branko's interest concerning TM at WC surely doesn't interfere with you interests).

But also, this war was well overthought by plenty of intelligent people and experts of all areas. They have much more knowledge on certain issues than you, they have much more information than you, they have totally different targets than you might have plus they gained a lot of advantages by this war economically, tactically even for US internal policy.

So it would be plainly naive to believe they didn't know about certain consequences you believe to have foreseen or simply made a mistake. That doesn't make the war right (if there is sth like wrong or right in this case at all), but it makes you unable to understand everything which lead to this war.

In the same way a bunch of much more knowledgeable people than you often come to conclusions you disagree with at TM. Yet, you with little knowledge, and insufficient information believe being able to judge things better than those people. This is simply not realistic.

[Hajagha]

it really does NOT take a rocket scientist to see the defects in a football game and team.

Very true.

I am very sorry for some of our fellow here thinking they are unqualified to even evaluate a coach performance. The serious problem is "they even put more time on football than the coach himself". Look, they are always discuss/watch football 24/7 and still underestimate themselves.

Their logic of thinking = All coaches think the same way that Branko thinks because they are all professional and see the fact the same way.

That's why all of them using Daei/Mirza/Zare/... exactly the same way Branko uses.

Don't you believe me? Change Branko and bring another one, you will see.

P.S. for Soheil:

Can you explain why Macedonia was not 50%?

Cheers

[Doctor DOOM]

De nashod keeeeee !!

Soheil jan, where have you seen THIS TM being 22 ?
To me and many like me, THIS TM is only 10-11 …. With those poor sods who get those odd 20 minutes, and sometimes 2 minutes, as siahi lashkar who don’t figure in any of branko’s schemes , are immensely expendable and non-vital !!!!!

Why are you excusing lack of commitment on part of national team players ? aren’t they supposed to be honored to be there ?
Where is the notion of rewarding enthusiasm and hard work then?
Why even bother with such aspects of sports ?

Who is on top of his game?
To be fair, only kia and karimi are.
Vh hasn’t been what he was before.
Same with zandi.
Navidkia is only a shadow of his former self.

Why shd ”names” play such an important part , even in TEST games ?
What are we supposed to achieve in these TEST games, if we not only excuse lack of commitment by first team players, but also refuse to test any alternatives seriously ?
What is gained from this
Nothing !

In the end, we see a bunch of sogoli’s who wont do as they shd, and another bunch of depressed and DE-motivated & discouraged reserves who are marginalized even more, and this gap gets larger with each passing game that we apply this attitude !

No wonder when they come on for their odd 15 minutes of appearance, they find it so hard to do anything worthwhile, beczo they are lost, out of sync with everyone else & …. .
How can one blame them ?

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As for the legioners : pashazadeh, razzaghi, are also legioners. Shdnt this rule apply to them too?
So were khatibi , latifi, ….. and huge lot more.
“NAMES” shd not be the deciding factor in test games, when we are given the opportunity to find and correct the weaknesses and defects of the team.


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and soheil jan, we certainly DID play for the win.
Branko set the team to win, so it would reduce the pressure off him.

Otherwise why start with all the main players ?
What was being tested ?
Was the test to see how our main team would fair against a third rate euro nation’s B team at the WC ?

Na dadash …. Branko desperately needed the win, and he went for it with all his big guns.

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and very true, and I agree that the teams we’ll face at the WC are not peshgel.

So why rest on such “great” achievements as beating peshgel teams like laos, n korea, Bahrain, panama, Azerbaijan, lybia ….in the form of branko’s unbeaten record to force the issue that he is most successful and this and that ????

Why quote fifa ranking of 17 or 18, when it was BECOZ of such peshgel match-ups that we rose so high, so we are supposed to turn a blind eye to a drastic lack of many things in the team, just becoz we reached # 17 ??????!!!!!!!!


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martin jan,
it IS that simple.

When one sees X or Y repeating the same mistakes, or the same defects remaining after many games and opportunities, then it really doesn’t ( should NOT ) tax anyone’s brain to wonder why the hell these leaks are not getting plugged.

And when the coach comes and says “there is no problem” ( his own quote ) , then you wonder … even more … what the hell is going on?
Cant he see X making the very same mistakes he used to make 2 years ago ?

So it is not that me or anyone else here thinks we know more than branko.
No.
It is his specialty .
But you cannot expect us to not wonder why he isn’t doing anything about the numerous deficiencies we’ve had over the years .
We wonder why we bring in an expensive ( for our standard ) coach , when in the end, after 5 years we our GK still makes the same silly mistakes?
Why does he persist with the two GK-ing coaches when in about 4 years of being a part of the staff, as far as GK-ing is concerned, we are at the SAME POINT we were 5 years ago.
The only difference is we wasted un-imaginable amount of money !!

Now, you want us to keep quiet , just becoz he is the specialist?
If you have forfeited your rights to demand a proportionate result for the expenses , … all based on X or Y’s degree, then that is your prerogative.
But don’t expect everyone else to follow suit.

[perspolees]

Our first 11 are less motivated now. Its nothing extraordinary about it.And has nothing to do with their gaurenteed place in TM.Playing in World Cup is still a dream for every player, no matter how many times they played in World Cup.
When the occasion comes to put more into it, or the most, they will do that.This for now is just aramesh ghabl az toofan.
Listen to what Human jaan said.He confirms this. Listen to people who are next to TM, in just a few feet.Dont judge what you see from thousands of miles distance.

Agha soheil avvalanke koodoom goori hasty ma nemeebeeneemet..chakerzeem...sanyan bikhyal dadash!!
the closest one to tm is branko and dadkan and if you leave it to them we got no problems!! and the players are motivated etc...
Human and all of the rest are biased because they work for that entity!!
As hard as it is to get a solid yet bitaraf expert to comment on tm but at least we could trust our own eyes on the way our team is playing with the third tier teams of the world!! dige ino ke meebeeneem!!i

I am against a whole war on this subject because it will not be fruitfull for tm but please do not be living in a pink peachy keen dream of all is well and sheerhaye khofte beedar meeshavand nonesense...branko's team is as is...fix it now or be ashamed of your team comes 06...

I have spent beaucoup mulla to be there and cheer for our lions in Germany but I am worried and ritefully so!
To be honest with you I dislike spineless conservative people ( you read Branko) that accept no logic and offer no answer ( in their professor!!! minds ) to our tm's cowardly games!

[Dr.shark]

Well said... I agree. Guys c'mon, Branko is doing his best to make his final eleven... and who said he does not check younger players... check the 2nd half of every match..he brings in younger players and pulls out his main players.. Even Japan and Korea r using their 1st eleven in almost every friendly match.
They r less motivated as Smanhoobi jan said.... they just dont play as aggressive as they r supposed to be like the qualification rounds + maybe trying to avoid injuries... I personally and on behalf of those people who agree with me and my points can say that... Iran will play its full potential in world cup and Branko is the right man to bring us the success we have lacked to achieve so far...
My advice to people who dont agree: Please dont try to destroy the team that was built by Branko and has brought us joy with their unpredicted glories in recent years.. TM's success is not only in Branko's hands.. Its in our hands .. If u want to destroy it.. then go search for a job in 'Keyhan Varzeshi' they may need ur valuable points to fill their blank stupid useless pages...

I don't see how when branko brings in a players as he has done in the 90 min as testing the player or in the last 10-15 miin of a game win we are behind by 1-2 goals?

[khabalood]

Agha Faraz:
We never played against Macedonia B team to win the game. Who said we did? Who?
Macedonia and Togo games were not WCQ games. They were warm up games. Games that we played with 50% of the potential of TM players and with the agenda to test a few things here an there. Noone would be disappointed if we would win. But, even winning, had no importance at all.
As Human explained, TM is now in the second phase of their roadmap and first phase of their preparation to world cup.

Smanoobi jaan, prior to the game Branko told the media that he gaurantees Iran will win the LG Cup. This was right before he insulted us by saying this cup with these teams is the greatest football honour ever to grace Iran.

I'm sure that the official story changed, after the fact...how convenient for Branko, and how sad that the majority of tm fans just eat up whatever is served to them.

[toos]

I fully agree with the title of this thread. Why are people SO stubborn and keep going on with this time wasting exercise of pretending that they are Dadkan and can control Branko's future. And then write page after page of meaningless pro and anti Branko gazavat.
My 2 cents: branko good or bad, sacked or kept in place, will NEVER be affected by what we chit chat over here. Let's stay put and keep our asaab unhurt, and hope for the best of our beloved team melli.

[Doctor DOOM]

Smanoobi jaan, prior to the game Branko told the media that he gaurantees Iran will win the LG Cup. This was right before he insulted us by saying this cup with these teams is the greatest football honour ever to grace Iran.
I'm sure that the official story changed, after the fact...how convenient for Branko, and how sad that the majority of tm fans just eat up whatever is served to them.

I had totally forgotten about this one !
this shd clarify branko's intentions in going into the cup.

[Soaz...(Stoned)]

In any other country, Branko would've been GONE by now. So why not Iran. We are always complaining on how far behind Europe we are. And MR jaan, what do you mean by normal people aren't allowed to critizise the coach?

South Korea, Saudi, Japan ALL changed there coaches due to bad results, why shouldn't we?