How to incorporate Kia and Kaabi in a threeback system?

[BehzadB]

three back system is not gonna work. our defenders will leave plenty of space open in the corner areas and the faster Asian players will have a feast there. Very risky.

It worked well in the past because we had a young Kia on the right and a very solid Minavand on the left who could run back to defend. We don't have the players for a system like that and even if we did I think a four back system is the way of modern football... although I do think that even with a 4 back system we will have a personnel problem.

Our best defenders are all center backs. Rezaie, Nosrati, Jalali. We are hurting at left and right positions. I think Kia is our best right side defender, and we could use him there. so if everyone showed up and everyone was healthy, something like this could work:

----------Keeper--------
Kia - Jalali - Rezaie - (Nosrati ??)
Kaabi- Teymour- Nekou- Zandi
Hashemian - Karimi

(or Nosrati for Jalali and try some one else at the left spot).

If I had anything to do with it, I let some of the stars rest and would instead use a few new faces (Sepahan has a few). And I would also give Kazemian a chance at that position before Kaabi.

[police in helicopter]

[yashar_fasihnia]

neissan jan, i think nosratis aerial abilities are better than rezai's...

[Mansoor]

Couple of notes reading the posts.

One, I don't think Ghalenoei is playing traditional three-back defense. His formation relies on one of the wingers to act like a psudoe defenders or 3+1 in football terms. Whenever Kia is in the field, Vahedi stays more back than Kia. So, when Kia moves forward, then the 3 defenders shift to the right to fillin for Kia, and Vahedi stays close to the three defenders to have one player covering each wing, just like a four-back formation. If I find time, I'll post some pics of the game to see the shift.

With having both Nekunam and Teymourian, he also have one of them playing closer to the central defenders so when the three defenders shift to the right, Nekunam stays back to help filling the gap in central defense. With them, he actually plays with 6 defenders (3 central defenders, Vahedi to left, and two def. Midfielder with only Teymourian moving forward at times). With goalie included, he uses 7 players to defend the goal. Does it work? Check the stat. Iran's defense has improved drastically. And with his 3+1 trick, he covers the most known weakness of 3-back defense; the wings. Of course not heavily tested yet, but we will see if this is working during Asian Cup and in serious games against Asian power house teams.

And, if Vahedi moves forward the shift takes place to cover him and the right winger stays back. You rarely see both of Ghalenoei's wingers attacking at the same time. When Teymourian moves forward, Karimi shifts a bit to the left to fill in the gap and has a lot of space to move along side Enayati.

=======

Two, I think Kaabi's career is evolving. With Denizli's orthodox style, he has found a new life for Kaabi. Forget about Kia's speed, he has lost a step or two from his younger days, Kaabi is the best we've got in speed department. Just imagine having Kaabi next to Hashemian with his thundering runs to break the off-side. He doesn't have to be a target players (or scorer) to play in forward position. And of course, he is not tall enough. But with his speed and with the offensive system in Perspolis, I see a new possiblities. Nothing to celebrate and I am sure it is pre-mature to be sure about this, but it sure is worth trying the combo with Hashemian.

One more stat to take a note: Since Kaabi's move to forward for Perspolis, Perspolis has only tied one game. Guess what? He was absent in that game against Fajr. And he has scored or has been part of a score in each game. And now, he has moved Perspolis up in the standing behind Esteghlal (temporary but still quite improvement). If Kaabi had joined Perspolis three games sooner, Perspolis could have been in first place today.

The only time I have seen him ineffective in forward was against Australia in recent qualifier. But again, he didn't have the caliber of Nekunam, Teymourian, Karimi, and Kia to feed him, and he didn't have the caliber of Hashemian to open up space for him against the giants of Australia. And I am not sure what was he so pissed off about.

Again, I am not sold to the idea, but I sure think it is worth a try in preparations. Factors such as extra-ordinary speed or physique can change the outcome of a match even for the underdogs. We should take advantage of his speed to effect the outcome of the match. All he needs is couple of "incidents" in the match to run through defense, and win the game for us.

Ok, I ran out of ink

[Doctor DOOM]

mansoor jan is absolutely correct on the fluid 3 +1 defense line.

ironically, with the introduction of sadeghi & aghili , and playing nosrati in the center where he belongs, our defense line looks solid or at least reliable.
we have great defenders like rezaei & shakouri, even hosseini to make up this line.

based on this, I think we can safely adopt a 4 man-ed back line.


-----------------------------

leaving 6 places.
forward line, I believe we SHOULD have 2 strikers.
yes, right now we have dearth of good, 6-dong goal scorers. but we have acceptable options in kazemian , khatibi and karimi to pair up w/ VH.
even kaabi could be an option, thanks to denizli.
single forward gets subdued far easier. also to win games, one must score goals. and one more option increases the odds that much more for us.

I also still say lets give enayati (or fazli ) one last opportunity to prove himself.
I wouldnt mind another tall & physical forward ( sub for VH ) given a trial at TM, like seyed salehi. if we dont try, we wont know or discover hidden talent .

--------------------


this leaves a 4 man midfield, where the captain can play where he's best & most efficient. ( I'm very excited about kia playing behind kazemian, btw ).

left, we have niki who seems to be peaking again. or madanchi. or maniei if he regains his last season's form.


I also am not very enthusiastic about having 2 def-mids. not against asian teams, at least. maybe against strong europeans where we need to pack the middle & hold them off near halfway line.
so one of neku or ando, unfortunately must sit out.
shame. I know. but TM is more important.
even more shame since we have kazemi & the under-rated kiyanoosh rahmati who can take the role of the "fighter" in the middle!


coz as the fourth man in mid, we need a play-MAKER.
and traditionally, we are good in this area.
just look at the names and be impressed;
shojaei
jabbari ( if he is fit )
mobaali
zandi
even badamaki if he regains form
or karimi, if we play kaz or ... next to VH.



one thing I'm very happy with our 40+ hopefuls is a lot of them are quite versatile and can be deployed in different posts.
Kaabi, Kia, Kaz , Karimi , ...( hhmmmm.... does the letter "k" have such monopoly in this matter ????) , niKi, ... can be assets elsewhere too.
( sorry fereydoon jan. since "zandi" doesnt have a "k", you wont be used on the left or .... . unless u're ready to change it to "zandik" !!!! )


so, GN will not be venturing "NEW" territories if he plays a 4-4-2 or even 4-3-3 formation, depending on the opposition or demands of the game. he HAS indeed tried such things before.

all will be revealed soon.

[yashar_fasihnia]

so mansoor khan, based on ur posts,,,,

1)the 2 ideal wingers of our team are nikbakht and kia because of their defensive abilities which will be needed in times of a 3+1 switch.
on the left, nikbakht clearly is superior in defensive duties to the likes of madanchi, asadi, yousefi, manei or anyone else.
on the right, an experienced and professional kia with a stronger physique is much better in defense than a hotheaded young and physically weaker kaabi.

2)with 4 defenders + 2 DMs and a GK, 7 players are totally out of any offensive participation (unless teymourian moves forward like u said sometimes) which leaves us with 4 players namely hashemian, his partner in offense line (usually enayati), karimi and one of the 2 wingers (usually kia).
this kinda explains why our offense isnt that potent simply since they get outnumbered.

so if we go with my suggestion of replacing zandi (or rajabzadeh) for teymourian, we will reduce our defensive numbers to 6 but increase our offensive players to 5 which can be more effective, dont u think?? in this case, karimi moves a bit behind and zandi plays a bit more forward since karimi has very good abilities of tackling and winning 1 on 1 challenges..

consider this formation:

---------------------------------GK-------------------------------
-------------------------------nosrati------------------------------
-------------------rezai----------------------sadeghi---------------
------------------------------nekounam-----------------------------
-----------kia---------------------------------------------nikki-------
----------------------karimi-----------------zandi---------------------
---------------------------kaabi---------hashemian-------------------

change to in times of attack from the right side:
-------------------------------------GK-------------------------------
-----------------------nosrati-----------sadeghi--------------
------------rezai-------------------nekounam--------------------nikki-----
-------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------karimi-------------------
-----------kia-----------------------------------zandi----------------
---------------------kaabi----------hashemian-----------------

or attack from left side as:
-------------------------------------GK-------------------------------
---------------------rezai-----------nosrati----------------------------
---------kia----------------------nekounam--------------sadeghi----------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------karimi-------------------------------------------
------------------------------------zandi------------nikki----
---------------------kaabi----------hashemian-----------------

when we attack from either side, the defender for that corresponding side (rezai and sadeghi in my example) will move a bit infront to reduce the gap between the defense line and the winger who has now moved in front.

in this way, we can have more attacking options, including a classic left footer like zandi who adds a different dimension to the team and can also take shots at the goal if the other forwards are shut down or take direct freekicks in the absence of daei.

[khabalood]

Much has been said about moving Kaebi into the box, however Mahdavikia is the far more potent threat, and experienced in that role from his younger days with tm. He is stronger, his accuracy in crossing and shooting is far better as well. As a winger Kaebis speed is vital to our defense. He can get back faster than Mahdavikia and has shown that he is able to defend against the worlds best players.

Kaebi and Mahdavikia complement each other, but if one is to be chosen for a more offensive role it should be Mahdavikia.

Many have also advocated playing Teymourian and Nekounam at the same time. I do not see the need for both unless we are playing the top teams in Asia. We limit our offensive potential by fielding both players unnecessarily against weaker opposition.

Karimi is a great asset to tm and should be used in the position in which he is the most lethal to the opposition. It is clear that that position is offensive midfielder. Karimi is not a classic finisher and suffers from poor shot selection and a tendency to hold the ball to long in the box. This makes for a poor forward (although arguably better than some of our weaker options.) On the left Manie has the ball control and the pace needed to adequately fill the role of lw. He should be given a real opportunity to make the squad.

[zzgloo]

It is good to have F+ back...........thanks to mansoor and co.
Regarding the issue...........

It seems we currantly have surpluse of someplayers at some positions,and shortage of players at some other positions..............

For defence, which has always been our streangth..we should have " Libero ", and mopping up behind the three set back. perhaps, Rezaee.

Why kabie has never been offered a job in European leagues, has so much to do with his hight.....we should not use him at forward any way.yet,he plays well with Kia.

We have shortage of hight,and talent at the stricker/ forward position...thats why, Ali daei should be invited, at least for sub-capacity position at the end of the game, ( as was also suggested by mansoor jan ).

Zandi, madanchi, taimoorian, nekoonam,mahdavikia,even Nikbakht, etc....are too many at midfield position.....and which to be starter, and sub or eliminated , is matter of taste,and coaching preference....I personaly, eliminate zandi, and keep Madanchi and nikbakht as subs.

Goalkeeper,is still an unsolved position, may be we should invite ( forgot his name),the youngester playing in Holland secound league.

The three possible forign additions, could help TM, specialy, dejagah,at forward.

..............my Ideal team:
--------------------------------------------------------


..................The Dutch goalkeeper !..................

.........................Rezaee................... ..............

.......kabei.........Sadeghee..........Nosrati.... ........

.........Kia.........Nekoonam........taimoorian... ........

...............Dejagah............karimi.......... .............

.....................Hashemian.................... ............

[Doctor DOOM]

zz jan, with due respect & love I shd say your post has so many flaws that can hang a comp suited with core-2-duo processor
no hard feelings, but.


1- I dont know where to start.
maybe I'll start w the fact that it is IRAN's TM we're talking about. so bringing that german hasan kachal's name is somewhat .... ummm... obscure & strange !

2- teymoorian on the left?
niki w one leg (doing ley-ley) wld be more effective.
let alone the likes of maniee.


3- I dont know what happened to you during the last 2-3 months before the WC, that u made a 180 on .... .
but again , nosrati on the LEFT?
when he is great as a centerback or even on the right?


4- the dutch keeper?
has he been noticed by IFF / GN?
has he been invited by them?
has he agreed to play 4 iran?
is he truly TM-SENIORS material and all the hype is NOT merely becoz he lives & plays in europe? ( in a lower division team of second rated european league , I must add )
is he better than mirza, talebloo, makani, ........... ?


5- and the "biggie":
"...defense, which has always been our strength..."????????????
defense?
as in "defending"?

zz jan, ghorboonet, when was the last period that defense was our "strength"?
(ed: my comp crashed .... twice , after quoting that line ! Had to yank out the battery and ..... !! )

6- daei will NOT rejoin the TM .... EVER (unless as a coach )!
we can take that to the bank.


you are correct on matters of kaabi, kia, .... however.
ghorboonet.

[police in helicopter]

Teymourian started two games on the left flank with Bolton and he did quiet good.

I think he is a valuable option on the left.

[zzgloo]

zz jan, with due respect & love I shd say your post has so many flaws that can hang a comp suited with core-2-duo processor
no hard feelings, but.


1- I dont know where to start.
maybe I'll start w the fact that it is IRAN's TM we're talking about. so bringing that german hasan kachal's name is somewhat .... ummm... obscure & strange !

2- teymoorian on the left?
niki w one leg (doing ley-ley) wld be more effective.
let alone the likes of maniee.


3- I dont know what happened to you during the last 2-3 months before the WC, that u made a 180 on .... .
but again , nosrati on the LEFT?
when he is great as a centerback or even on the right?


4- the dutch keeper?
has he been noticed by IFF / GN?
has he been invited by them?
has he agreed to play 4 iran?
is he truly TM-SENIORS material and all the hype is NOT merely becoz he lives & plays in europe? ( in a lower division team of second rated european league , I must add )
is he better than mirza, talebloo, makani, ........... ?


5- and the "biggie":
"...defense, which has always been our strength..."????????????
defense?
as in "defending"?

zz jan, ghorboonet, when was the last period that defense was our "strength"?
(ed: my comp crashed .... twice , after quoting that line ! Had to yank out the battery and ..... !! )

6- daei will NOT rejoin the TM .... EVER (unless as a coach )!
we can take that to the bank.


you are correct on matters of kaabi, kia, .... however.
ghorboonet.

DD jan..........it seems like F+ has realy come back.. ,and we are argueing again !! ......any way, it is good to hear from you....,yet......I agree to disagree with you here !!!

1-Why is it , bringing dejagah strange to you ?.....
..........he has been talked to, and was interested...
..........his high-lights ,and records,were very impresive,and interesting...
.........he is in a position we are so thin........
.........we have done it before, with Zandi.....
........we have so much time, and not just for asian cup....

2-Who says, left midfield player has to be left footed ?....taimoorian and nekoonam's experince will make it work,far better than left footed mediocare.

3-for left back, you sound like you have a better idea...where is it ?, nosrati, has played left back in the Wc, with passing grade.and he is one of our better backs.During the WC, 2 to 3 mouths before and after, I always was with the side of practicality .

4-the PFDC just last week had an interview with him, as he was chosen for youth national team of holland.........the talebloo,and co, are just too Goofy.,as this young dutch is tall, young, and experinced in Europe, and member of dutch youth national team.

5-Deffence !!, we have been haveing the number one goofy offense, in the whole world,,,,we miss goals, and mis-fire more than 10 year old teams...,we have no, killer instinct, and no finisher......you thought, our offence has been our streangth ?

6-The forward position is so deperate,that not only we can use Dejagah,but also daei can help at last 20 minutes.

At the end.............I had missed you !!

[Mansoor]

so mansoor khan, based on ur posts ...

I really think Teymourian is gonna surprise everyone with his improvement during Asian Cup. Maybe a year ago, I would agree that Teymourian/Nekunam would be too much against teams like Malaysia, but we are talking about one of the most improved players. Teymourian in his last game for TM showed signs of good offensive work, and I am pretty sure he is ready to run the midfield next to Nekunam. His technique is improving drastically, and his vision and passing is gone beyound likes of Jabbari and Navidkia. A very hard working player like Ando will have a guaranteed spot in TM. Coaches love these kind of players that just go in to play hard and effective, put 110%, and play with heart for 90 min.

Knowing Ghalenoei and his approach, I doubt he would take a chance on using 6 instead of 7 to protect the back. Rest assured Ando and Nekunam will run the midfield next to Kia, Karimi. Vahedi will be there too.

The only question would be if he still goes with Enayati, most likely, or Kaabi in forward next to Hashemian, and if he would go with Sadeghi or Aghili or Shakouri or Hosseini next to Rezaei and Nosrati. I have a feeling we will see Kaabi up front, especially if he continues to shine in Perspolis for the remain of the season and Hazfi cup.

[Doctor DOOM]

zz jan,
1- that kachal has already ruled out the choice of playing for Iran.
I guess you may have missed the news.

2- I never said he shd be LEFT footed.
but the player who is put on the left has certain specific requirements that do NOT compare with those of a def-mid, where ando is far more useful and effective.
it's not just about running.
skills like ball control, crossing ability, be it on the run or ... .

3-yes. sadeghi, aghili, ... are better and more used to this area than nosrati, whose performance on the left is so inferior to his central role that it'd be a shame to deny the center of his skills and ruin the left with his inabilities.

4-again the first 3-4 question ought to be asked first , before we reach the comparison one.

5- till our team was "neutered" by branko's ultra-cautious wimpy tactics and formation, IRAN was famous for its offensive capabilities in asia.
every team FEARED our offense and frankly, wasnt even bothered about our weak defense.

now, if you are just refering to the present time that our offense is suffering, then that is a different thing, which I agree.
but we certainly cannot say "defense always being our strength".
NO.

6- well. I guess if we are inclined to use a german. I say why not use Eto'o , or Henry or Sheva?
the guy doesnt have to be german. he can be from cameroon or ukraine or france too.

cheers

==================

mansoor jan, I agree ando has improved by leaps ands bounds.
and it IS a shame that we have to choose between our two most competent mids; neku & ando.
but TM's offense has to be strengthened and it cannot be done by adding def-mids !

I also doubt that ando's passing has gone beyong the likes of navidkia or jabbari.
THAT is quite a tall order, even for the much improved ando.

ando is more like a tough hard-woker , those guys are the craftsmen.

[zzgloo]

DD , e, aziz..........

Regarding Dejaghah,As you guessed, I did not know,he rejected the Idea,joining TM....in that case, you are right to call him " Kachal "

I realy believe, we should not keep either nekoonam or taimoorian on the bench.

Nosrati, toward the WC,had realy improved, and does have an experince hard to come by....I also heard,by Mokala, Branko is after him to go to Dinamo !!

I am just not content with Talebloo...he is weak on the crosses.

On our offense, I realy would like to put your objective hat on.....have you not seen too many missed goal chances, by Iranian football.....as if, they just have no clue what to do when they have chance to score....did you see the game between saipa and Esteghlal....the game should have been 10 t0 9........this is a major,major handicap !!!...if a japaneas team needs to create 4 chances to make two goals, the Iranian team, needs to make 20 chances to make two goals.........this ,is true for our famouse players too...even karimi,and khatibi......the only one I kind of trust at this moment is hashemian....and that is just not enough.,....our goals in the WC were scored by our defence, as you recall also.

[faraz]

My suggestion would be to put Kaabi next to Hashemian...

This is definitely a viable option, especially after Kaabi's displays this season. I for one would like to see Karimi become Hashemian's strike partner, with a brand new talent, a brand new surprise package by the name of Shojaei as the attacking midfielder behind the front 2. Everytime I have seen this guy play, I've been impressed.

As for the 3-back system Ghalenoie so dearly holds to his heart, I truly hope it is changed to a 3 + 1. Obviously I'm hoping for a little too much, so my preferred line-up would look something like this, which incorporates both Kaebi and Kia:

--------------------Taleblou/Mirza---------------------

----------Sadeghi----Rezaei-----Nosrati----------------

---------------Teymourian----Nekounam----------------

------Kaebi-------------shojaei------------Kia-------

--------------Karimi--------------Hashemian----------

I think Kia is enough of a proffesional to play as an effective left winger, and if anything, it would be him who would need the least amount of time to readjust to the position. This formation also puts Tey and Nekou on the field in their natural positions to provide the support needed for the defence, and also allows for kaebi and kia to run havoc and use their speed on the wing - where there is most space on the field.

I also believe Karimi is a fine finisher these days, and rarely screws up a chance to score, plus he is most effective in and around the 18, so pairing him with Hashemian, with whom he has a good understanding already would really clean up our attacking woes nicely, especially given the raw playmaking talent of shojaie, and playmaking skills of kia/kaebi.