Last minute champions ?!

[zzgloo]

With last week of our league comeing this monday....and no one knows who is going to be the Champs .......one wonders if this is a good thing or bad ??
Saipa, Esteghlale Ahvaz,Esteghlale Tehran,and even perspolise, are all in the hunt.......and some may say, the best team may be sepahan !!! so go figure !,as who realy is the best team ??...
suppose next week comes and one of these teams become champion..will that mean they are the best ?!
With so many players playing in Europe, and even more in persian Gulf countries........and mediocrosy at the top of our league....where are we heading ?
It may be, that , with dranage of talent due to exportation of players, more and more, coaching and fan support will be detrimental...as that is the case with this year's league.....
the top teams, are at the top, either for thier fan support, or thier teams budgets, or better coaching...and not because of talent !

[Khodayar]

I cannot totally agree with you about the lack of talent in our football. Many teams introduced new young talents this season that will benefit TM.

In Saipa the obvious players to pick as talent are Ashtyany and Khalili, they truly impressed this season and made a place for themselves in the 11 eleven after being subs in the 1st half of the season. Jalal Hosseini was another player which can be seen as TM material. Although he was an established player from the start he contnued to impress throughout the season.

Denizli also introduced a couple of players taht although have a long way to go, showed great potential. I'm talking about Zare and Ashoubi. Denizli can also be credited with reviving Madanchi, Nikbakht and Kabi (as a striker).

Meisam Bao in esteghlal was impressive as well. He was a known face in Iranian football last season but he didn't get enough playing time. This season he showed what he can do in the abscence of some of last season's regulars.

There were other players that showed that under proper management and leadership can achieve alot. Saber Mirghorbani (Mes), Rezaei (Esteghlal A), Haghighi (Perspolis) and Amrayee (Zobahan) are among these players.

So I don't think our football is completely derained of talent.

[Ali Chicago]

With last week of our league comeing this monday....and no one knows who is going to be the Champs .......one wonders if this is a good thing or bad ??
Saipa, Esteghlale Ahvaz,Esteghlale Tehran,and even perspolise, are all in the hunt.......and some may say, the best team may be sepahan !!! so go figure !,as who realy is the best team ??...
suppose next week comes and one of these teams become champion..will that mean they are the best ?!
With so many players playing in Europe, and even more in persian Gulf countries........and mediocrosy at the top of our league....where are we heading ?
It may be, that , with dranage of talent due to exportation of players, more and more, coaching and fan support will be detrimental...as that is the case with this year's league.....
the top teams, are at the top, either for thier fan support, or thier teams budgets, or better coaching...and not because of talent !

ZZ, Champion never means the best. Champion is the team that was able to perform the best at the period of time. On the paper, Real Madrid is the best team since it has the best players. Does this mean they will be champion all the time? NO.
Another factore is who cohesive the whole team is. A team with an number of average players with better synergy usually wins against teams with higher caliber players.

And as far as people go to play abroad, it is a good thing overall. This simplay means more and more stars that maybe didnt' get a chance to shine in the leauge now will find time to shine. Plus our soccer gets name recognition. Furthermore, our players go outside and see how the real clubs are being run adn eventually this knowledge is being transfered inside Iran and things ever so slowly eventually change.

[Doctor DOOM]

ZZ jan , I dont think having players abroad is anything bad.
In fact, apart from what ali jan said, it makes way for the home-grown talent to take their place and show themselves.

if daei, azizi, bagheri, kia, Rezaei, ... never left Iran, we'd not discover the likes of kazemian, nekounam, .... in time, until they had been much older and their youth would have been wasted in Iran!


----------------

and trust me, we have enough talent in our younger generation.
yes, it's not bursting at the seams, this time. but still we have quite a few talented ones who, if groomed properly, will replace the older gen'n quite well.

kolahkaj
zareh
amraei
makani
akbari
hamoudi
maydavoodi
nouri
montazeri
.... etc. are some of them.

plus guys like kazemian, mobali, shojaei, jabbari, teymoorian, nekounam, nosrati, ... are not old by any means and have plenty of experience to complement the youth.

dont worry bro. the future is safe.
as long as our officials and IFF use tact and their brains and prepare well in advance for the upcoming tourneys ( unlike the olympic Q's )

[zzgloo]

How is Mobali doing ?
What happened to kazemian ?
Is Enayati in form ?
is samereh TM material ?
" Anke Az dideh beraft, Az yad beraft ".......
We can not tell ourseleves, we will have more talents replaceing the exporting one.....the reality is, that our league would indeed lose standard,by loseing top players......
Why is it ,that even Brazil with abundance of players, still in each world cup, gathers its legioners for thier national team ?.....why can't they replace thier players........
I remember , kabei as saying.." I play my best when I play behind Mahdavikia ".......why did he say that ?....
Good players indeed rasie the playing standard of thier fellow team mates.
It is same as, many Iranian elite and intelectuals , by leaving Iran to western countries , have created a gap , and left the countries to some , .......!!!.
The reality is that, there are no out standing " TALENT " currantly playing in Iran....is there ? may be thats why, paykan can beat Saipa.....our four top teams, do not win games they are supposed to, and 5 teams at the top, only last minute will deciede who the champs would be....
Saipa and Esteghlal Ahvaz have the best chance to win it all......but, how many talented players do you know , TM material, playing in these two teams ?....

[Doctor DOOM]

zz jan, I ask you;

after export of kia, neku, ando, mobaali, vh, rezaei ..., what has happened to IPL?
has it regressed or progressed?

On a couple of specific matters like "striker", I think with khatibi & enayati leaving, the league has suffered.
but on the whole, IPL has improved. the standard has progressed too.
just compare the quality of football of present with 2-3 yrs past.
(do not compare it to europe.)

zz jan, top teams losing has no direct relation to "lack of talent".
in fact one may even argue there is abundance of talent, but SPREAD OUT in many teams, hence anyone can beat anyone
merely 2 teams having all the talent doesnt mean abundance of talent !
in fact that is an indication for otherwise

--------------------------
jalal hosseini
khalili
ashtyani
baoo
kazemi
sadeghi
talebloo

-------------------------

mobaali is doing very well.
so is kaz.
samereh is a bit immature & has allowed personal matters to dictate to him!
enayati? I assume he's what he was last yr. yashar is a better person to clue u in on these.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Saipa and Esteghlal Ahvaz have the best chance to win it all......but, how many talented players do you know , TM material, playing in these two teams ?....

esteghlal ahvaz has i think 5 U-23 TM players,,, u will hear more about them in the near future. they remind me of foolad a few years ago under begovich when 7 TM players were from foolad.
so they are pretty talented.

saipa also has talented players, they have a mixture of youth and experience, and headed by a very charismatic and ba gheyrat leader who has had vast experiences in europe in bundesliga and champions league.
jalal hosseini, dariush yazdani, ebrahim sadeghi, javad ashtiyani and mohsen khalili and all players who people didnt know about or had forgotten about (in the case of yazdani) until this last 2 seasons...

and esteghlal also has talented players like talebloo, sadeghi, yousefi, kazemi, bao. maybe if enayati and nikbakht hadnt left and jabbari wasnt injured, we wouldnt see the rise of the likes of bao, yousefi or even the critical role of kazemi would be overlooked because of the presence of players like jabbari and nikbakht in midfield.

[zzgloo]

DD jan....
I would answer your question........It has regressed !....
although, the game between saipa and Esteghlal-tehran was better class...yet, how many other games like that did you see through out the year......, why is it all of the sudden Sepahan is so dominant ?.....I tell you why........................Because, in absence of talent, coaching matters the most ! same reason for successes of abumoslem and saipa and esteghlale ahvaz........they can simply Rise to the top, because,there are no resistance, there are no power house teams remaining from the previouse year.
We do not have a top Gaol keeper in the whole league.
we do defenetly not have any top striker.
We do not have any midfield in same class as ando,neko,or kia.....do we ?
only , may be in defense we are more deep.
.........and you are telling me we have progressed. how could that happen ?
I know, with the loss of any one, the " show " must go on....but, with a lesser quality..........and now, I ask you a question......what would happen to the league, if , right now, we export another top 15 players to Persian Gulf countries ?
...........................
dear yashar.........
I know the up comeing talents for the youth are comeing, there is no doubt about that.......but what about now ?

[yashar_fasihnia]

dear yashar.........
I know the up comeing talents for the youth are comeing, there is no doubt about that.......but what about now ?

the youth is mainly from esteghlal ahvaz as they consitute a huge portiong of the U-23 TM..
peykan too.

right now, we have jabbari and navidkia coming back hopefully, i think milad nouri deserves a call atleast to TM camp as well atleast as long as javidkia and jabbari dont return to their form, along with kolahkaj and hossein kazemi. they are pretty decent substitutes for our legionnaires.

sadeghi, aghilli and jala hosseini can all play for TM right now inspite of their age (aghilli is not as young as hosseini and sadeghi though)

in GK, talebloo is doing pretty fine and will be one of TM's GKs. Rahmati, vaezi, are also TM caliber and are quite young, specially rahmati and talebloo.

in forward line, amraei, kaabi, rajabzadeh can all be tested and im sure atleast one of them will give us a positive reply if not more than 1.


in my opinion, kaabi, navidkia, jabbari, nouri, amraei, ashtiyani, talebloo, kolahkaj are all outstanding talent right now in IPL. however, by outstanding talents, if u mean someone like a young daei or karimi, then yea, i agree we dont have any right now, but i can accept it because such talents are rare and dont come around so often.
but 2 things:
1) its not talent alone which makes one team beat the rest. talent without coaching isnt any different than coaching without talent.
2)the outstanding talents are spread out across different teams, and so again, u cant really say which team will beat which team. but talent along with coaching is not the same in every team and thats wat makes the difference.

foolad is one of irans most talented teams, but look at their position now, its because of poor coaching of mayeli kohan (whom some even preferred over branko )

sepahan is dominant because it has a good coach as well as good talent. milad nouri and jalal akbari are running the midfield very well backed up by abolhail in DM position. 2 big hefty defenders like aghilli and bengar and an experienced GK like armenak also adds a lot to the team.

u can clearly see this because sepahan is also dominant in ACL! when was the last time an iranian team did so well in ACL? pas2 or 3 years back when it had nekounam, borhani, nosrati, roudbarian all on peak form. after that, again iranian teams failed, until this year, sepahan did well against its oppositions which we must admit werent easy opponents!
this itself shows improvement compared to previous years.
u cant say there is no talent in other asian countries and teams either, now, can u?

also, we should realize one thing, many of these talented players never got a chance to show themselves because of branko's persistence to use the same TM starters in almost all the games we got (which werent much btw)
and on top of that, our TM is quite young, and so these guys will be playing for sometime now and hence, their substitutes will not be playing anytime soon unless they prove themselves better than our starters which is again hard to do, considering most of them are legionnaires.
So there is a chance some of our currently talented players end their career without getting the necessary attention and chance in TM.
for example, johan micoud although impressed well in werder bremen never really got much of a chance to play for france cos zidane was always starting for sure and these 2 players are more or less of the same age, so one of them has to be sacrificed, unfortunately.
another example can be navidkia and jabbari and even mobali, all are more or less of the same age and belong to the same generation but there wont be room for all of them, so some of them will never get much of a chance to play in TM

maybe if mirzapour hadnt started all the games during these 4 years, we had a much better talebloo or roudbarian or rahmati. maybe they could have become another abedzadeh or hejazi. maybe then we would have a complete GK in the league.
jabbari and navidkia are of the same class as teymourian, but they were injured unfortunately.
only our striking department lacks real talent right now in my opinion, and maybe thats because we are comparing our forwards to the earlier days of daei and azizi who were very talented, complemented each other and came around at the same era. salas-zamorano, romario-bebeto, cole-yorke, raul-morientes,,, etc., such things dont always happen and come around once in a while.

ur example about peykan is a special case. there are not many teams like peykan in IPL. peykan as far as i remember, even when it was under the name of bahman was always a "gorbeh siah" for the championship contenders.
peykan has a decent amount of U-23 players, some of whom are part of TM. they also have good opportunistic goal scorers like bayatinia and tahmasebi.
and another factor is peykan is a counter attacking team and "khorakesh aslan teamhaye bozorge va ghavitar az khodeshe". teams like peykan or on international scale, mexico and poland are teams who play a style which has a higher chance of beating stronger teams than weaker teams. this is because they play a very compact, highly disciplined defensive game and who spread like the flu virus in all directions and open up very nicely in counter attacks.

notice peykans 2 goals against esteghlal or 4 goals on perspolis, all of them were on counter attacks!! they hardly created any chance during the game itself, only in counters! against both esteghlal and perspolis, they had no real chance, hardly any. all the chances they created were on counter attacks!

my point is, peykan is an exceptional case. how come no other team can do wat peykan is doing??? there are a lot of other teams, who even have better players than peykan, like foolad, or mes kerman or saba battery or zobahan, but they couldnt do wat peykan did, simply because they didnt play peykans style which is quite unique in IPL. this system works quite well, as it has happened many times around the world as well, both on national as well as international levels.

[zzgloo]

Yashar jan......very concise post....and I read it all, with admiration for your info on currant events...
yes, there are many talents availeble and many youth ready for chance to show thier stuffs.......but, some how, the notion that we have not been negatively effected by loss of so many top players, does not sound logical,nor honest.

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DD jan.......you say, " There is abundance of talent but they are spread out around the league ,hence any one can beat any one "....
one can also say, there are many in iran against the government,but they are spread out......but we know, only if they get together there will be a change !!!.....we have had a loss of talent,of the huge magnetude,( for our limited football ),we can not shrug it off as easy as brazil can......if we pretend ,there is no problem, we can not find a solution for it.

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Ali chicago jan...... you say " It is a good thing overal to lose players to abroad ".............yes, I agree, but my quetion is , to what extend ?,..and who is it that loseing them, and to where ?.......the devil is in the details...
Neither, we are that deep,
Nor, are we loseing them in a " normal ", rate.
Nor , are we loseing them to better places.

.................................................. .................................................

We are loseing far too many,players , compair to what we can hanndle, to places, where the players only gain money .....hence they get waisted,instead of helping to advance our football.

[Doctor DOOM]

ando i?
kia?
neku?
while they were playing in iran?
(unless you expect to compare a player in IPL, with those in europe, which is NOT relevant to the topic here )

easy;
K rahmati, kazemi, zareh,...
kaabi, hamoudi, ...
meydavoodi, nouri, kolahkaj,, ...




and yes, I still say we have progressed.
becoz the quality of football shown by some teams ( a few teams more regularly than others, like PP, saipa, sepahan, ... ) is better than what they were displaying in previous years.
if we compare the overall quality to say 3-4 years back, we'd easily see the progress.

you are confusing the "close-race" with lowering of standards.
as I said, closeness of the race has NO bearing whatsoever on the quality of football.
a league may be packed with 14 crappy teams and still have a close race.
just as easily as a league with great standards ( la liga , for example ) and still have a close race.
the two issues are separate.

however, you have to admit, the fact that our league is NO MORE a two-horse race and we have had 5 different champs in the last 5 years , and each year, there are more contenders to the crown, as an indication for this spread of quality among more teams than just the traditional 2. at least the self belief among the teams.
as well as the gradual investment & infrastructure ( painfully slow, yes. but improving nevertheless. again I ask u to compare to previous years ).

[yashar_fasihnia]

Yashar jan......very concise post....and I read it all, with admiration for your info on currant events...
yes, there are many talents availeble and many youth ready for chance to show thier stuffs.......but, some how, the notion that we have not been negatively effected by loss of so many top players, does not sound logical,nor honest.

mokhlesim zzgloo jan(sorry, dont know ur real name yet )