Counter Attack or Classic Pressing versus Elite Asian teams (KOR, JAP) in AC 2007!

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I come back again to the high "Play/Game Speed" of South Korea, Japan, and Australia versus our players.
I would have chosen a packed midfield, be it 3-6-1 or 3-5-2 to take speed away from such teams. But if we would have implemented such a formation, which tactic should we select?

Defend 'n' Counter-Attack
or
Classic Pressing

both have advantages and dis-advantages



Defend 'n' Counter Attack tactic:

Advantage = playing with a 3+1 defence, we will not risk to be over-runed in the defence by the speedy Japanese and Korean players.

Disadvantage = in the long run of the game we will be under enormous non-stop pressure by the opponent team that a single "concentration mistake" will harm us at the knock stages of the tournament!



Classic Pressing tactic:

Advantage = if implemented correctly, we will not allow the opponent to come into their game and take space and breath away from them.

Disadvantage = given the fact that defence line will move (parallel with midfield) more forward towards the half filed, if our pressing does not work and we lose the ball, we will be in danger of a counter attack. There the only hope would be to force an offside, which is very risky aganist the quirly and speedy Japanese, and Korean players.



Taking the above into consideration, which tactic shall we go for?


Based on the nature of our players, hence Teymoorian, Nekoonam, Mahdavilkia (and Kaabi) I would rather go for a "Classic Pressing" but make sure that the team would move harmonized forward, specially the space between defence line and midfield should be minimized to optimum.
The question is, if lose the ball can we manage an "on time" offside!


Please vote and explain why!?!

[Mr.Good]

I will go with pressing game also. Our tactic should be game control and not let the opponents play their style. Furthermore our pressing should start from the attack line which Hashemian is very good at. One problem I always see with our teams is that the distance between the defense and midfield is big and this caused us lots of problems previously. The other big problem we have is the slowness of our passing game. we need faster game speed to take control of the midfield.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

^^

yes the slowness of passing is an issue but I guess now with 3 main engines in midfield, hence Kia, Teymoorian, and Nekoonam all playing in Europe and nonetheless Karimi for the games he played we could hopefully overcome this issue.

The only problem I see is the space between the midfield and attack and also if we loose the ball whether we could make an "on time" offside! And here I hope Rahman Rezaei with his experience in Italy can take the lead of the defence line; both as far as the space in accordance to midfiled rotation is concerned and also the coordination of offside!
it might work...

[eshgheiran]

In General I am more supporter of Pressing game. I prefer my team pushing for score rather than waiting for the opponent's mistake to score.

Nonetheless having a good passer like Karimi and a speeds winger like Kaebi and an opportunist like Hashemian can be a good formula for a good counter attacking team.

[Ali Chicago]

I would have prefered classic pressing, but our players don't have the stamina, tactical discipline, or coordination for that matter, therefore I will vote for counter attack.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I would have prefered classic pressing, but our players don't have the stamina, tactical discipline, or coordination for that matter, therefore I will vote for counter attack.

thanks for your comment

I personally would have claimed that 3 years ago or so. But today with the European League experience of Nekoonam, Teymoorian, Karimi, and Kia in midfield I believe we have improved a lot in tactical discipline.

[yashar_fasihnia]

our players dont have the speed, both in transition and in "hamle toop" for counter attack either specially againt the likes of korea and japan

[Adesor Vafaseya]

^^

thats why I believe we must interfere in their game by pressing and not let them gain the control in midfield since too much of their pressure on our defence may result in mistakes by our side.

one thing to note is that teams like Korea and Japan get nervous and don't like or are not used to to get interferred in the midfield.. might be in our favour if we go by that system.

[khabalood]

Our team is not fast enough to implement a counter attack. Our players stay idle on the ball too long and continue to make wasteful passes. A counter attack just wouldn't work with our players.

[zereshk-ali]

Khabalood is right - we can't play counter attacking football since we're not incisive.

Look at the world cup...compare 1st half of Mexico game when we pressed and had them rattled to 2nd half and the whole of the Portugal game when we defended deep, saw little of the ball and whenever we did get it wasted possession. When our players don't see enough of the ball they get nervous, don't get a feel for it and give away possession.

[yashar_fasihnia]

today again proved our players dont have the stamina and fitness to play either of the 2 styles specially classical pressing, atleast not our noneuropean legionnaires.

as always, we have to rely on individual talents and miracles...

[Doctor DOOM]

saudi is also elite, whether we like it or not.
uzbeks arent that far either. so are aussies, now that they've joined.

so we can divide the top teams according to their strength.

korea & japan ( and maybe china, to a lesser extent ) are similar; pacy and very well organized.
against such teams, IMO we must play a patient game ( which slows the game in our favor and subdues their strength ), ball possession and hard pressing game.
at the same time speed in our LB & RB is very important.


against Aussies :
speedy counterattack is our best option.
play ball possession and move the ball around, which not only tires the better built aussies more than us, also look for openings for through balls and spaces behind the defense for the qiick forwards.

KSA and even Uzbeks:
play very similar to us.
so I'd say counterattack is our best option, plus a tough marking and pressing game plan.

---------------

therefore, each style will have its separate strategy and formation.
in counterattack, 4-4-2 or even 4-5-1 ( with 1 or 2 very speedy wingers on either side, to complement the lone striker ) would be fine.
games against aussies and ksa would fall in this category, IMO.
the games are going to be more physical than most.
tough, well built squad with at least 2 tall/big defender & 2-3 speedy strikers and midfielders is a must. only one technical playmaker.


korea and japan : 4-5-1 or 4-4-1(karimi or rajabzadeh or any mid/striker )-1 would do.
at least one or two technical players in the midfield is a must. they can slow down the game or control the ball in the middle to implement our plans patiently.


in games against uzbeks and even china, to some extent, 4-4-2 or 3-4-3 would do.
we can afford a bit more of our fancy/technical players, especially against such less imaginative and technical sides.


===================

the whole point of allowing 20+ squad is that a coach can pick & choose diff kinds of players for diff opponents & situations.
also, the successful team is one whose coach can change & vary tactics from game to game, or even within a game ( w subs or some repositioning or change of duties for players ).

so no team shd strictly stay as a counterattacking one or physical one or .... w only one formation.
such teams are doomed to fail.

[perspolees]

bar kargahe koozegari raftam doosh
dedam do hezar kooze saketo khamoosh
nagah yeki kooze bar avard khorosh
koo koozegaro koozekharo koozeforoosh!!

This is an excellent poem for the situation at large!
Our football as a whole from the players mentality to skills and stamina to coaching staff, discipline, etc. does not have the goodies to have a floating mentality and to change shapes and forms according to their opponent.

If I were to choose one and only one thing to bang on at this stage to help Iran get somewhere in AC would be to bang and bang and bang and bang on stamina and athletic capacity of te players to have a strong presence on te field for say 75 minutes!! I would hope that luck and personal creativity would add some more and that should help us get somewhere, therefore I do not care what strategy they use I want a team in top body shape as much as possible, the rest we could handle...

that said I rather go with te classic pressing in a totally eutopic world for oue tm where I would have to pick one option under a gun pushing against my temple

[Doctor DOOM]

this is an excerpt from GN's interview yesterday.
I can it is pertinent to the topic here.

محور تمرينات به چه شكلى خواهد بود؟
<ببينيد! ۳ محور اصلى را در دستور كار قرار داديم. هدف ما اين است كه بازيكنان را از نظر جسمانى به شرايط مطلوب برسانيم؛ محور بعدى بازى درگيرانه و پرتحرك است و در نهايت بايد سرعت بازيكنان را بالا ببريم. براى رسيدن به اين ۳ محور، تمرينات منظمى را در زمينه بدنسازى و كارهاى تاكتيكى تا اعزام به مالزى در برنامه داريم

he has the right idea (so he isnt totally awful and sh*t !)
now, how and with what quality of staff he's trying to achieve these objectives is the question ( and the problem ).

[Ali Chicago]

Our team is not fast enough to implement a counter attack. Our players stay idle on the ball too long and continue to make wasteful passes. A counter attack just wouldn't work with our players.

Not to make an argument here, but the combination of the Kaabi, Kia, Karimi in Asian cup 2004 was one of the fastest trio and our transition game on that side, was the main reason our team made it to its third place, speically during the crucial Iran South Korea game (4-3). As a matter of fact that is how we scored 2 of the karimi goals.