Iran vs Mexico [Post Game Discussion]

[Martin-Reza]

MR jan,

1- dont worry. Shojaei took Mobaali's place in my books many months ago.
so he's my new #1 .
until jabbari proves me wrong.

2- Iman can be used against certain teams like most asian teams.
NOT against tough physical sides.
I still say he has class to deliver in asia at least.


3- right now, to me both GN & branko are the same; IDIOTS !
you gotta admit, though, that a first minute goal does a lot of damage in so many ways, than conceding after 15th minute.
ANY decent team will be in trouble. let alone a bunch of reserves from iran!

I really had so high hopes in Shojaei after the Bosnia game, but I was so much disappointed by him when I saw him in the stadium against Angola. His decision making was very slow and so often he picked out the wrong pass that I really wrote him off. Now he was good again, but he needs to be more effective to win my trust back.

And I never said Mobali sucks, I just think he is not good enough to earn a call-up instead of Karimi, Zandi, Jabbari, Shojaei, now Mohammad Nouri or an in-form Navidkia. If none of those players is available, I have no problem seeing Mobali play.

Of course a first minute goal is a huge blow, we saw that in the friendly against Korea Branko was bashed for, however, what I was referring to was how the team defended when they ran out of stamina in second half. It was a joke and we were lucky to just concede 2 more, while despite the players were totally exhausted at WC as well, they still were perfectly organized.

[The-Red]

only if I could read GN's mind in putting Rahmati in goal, Zareh in the starting lineup??? I guess he only can answer this!

[mkbf2]

We need to really work on set pieces. Iranians have for years been relatively good at these and it just looked like whenever there was a free kick, nobody knew their place and no one knew what to do.

[Guru]

...
anyway, I just watched the first couple of minutes of the game in IFO:
I got this to say:

1- AAARRGGHHHH! God how I suffer with "streaming videos" with all the buffering and starts & stops !
cant I dwnload it from somewhere?

DD jaan, to watch high quality streams you have to have high speed connection with OVER 1Mbps download speed. Otherwise, you'll be suffering from buffering. If your connection is not fast enough, you CAN download the game by following the download instructions on the TV page.

In the future, I suggest you get your facts right before publicly tarnishing the reputation of a respected web site.

[Doctor DOOM]

to guru:
1- guru jan, I think we all appreciate what IFO is doing.
2- I did NOT know about the "download" option.
3- what I wrote CERTAINLY & DEFINITELY was NOT THRASHING IFO OR ANYONE. I just expressed my dislike for "streaming vi's or audios or ..." due to buffering and ... ! so I'm sitting here wondering HOW did this comment translate to "thrashing" of a website.
let alone a website that is owned by my very good friend.
so ... .... my reply to the above is: dont be silly. I'm just too blind to notice the "download" option there.

in fact I thought here I am advertising to ppl that they can watch the game at IFO.
imagine my bloody surprise to see that has been misunderstood for this !!

-------------------------

2- MR jan:

1- whoaa whooaaaa, you are really pushing Mobaali down the chain, arent you?
we dont know how jabbari will be after his injury. remember navidkia?
and navidkia also has a lot to prove also, before being compared to Iman.
noori? come on. the kid is GOOD. but he, also, has a lot to prove before being compared to Iman.

2- shojaei was and is still young.
I put all those half-arsed displays as inexperience.
why, I remember cursing kia in 96 for being such an idiot and waster of chances, when all he was doing was running up and down the right side ... REAL FAST !
see how he turned up.

-----------------------

basically what GK jan said stands true.
and not only for this particular team. but for ALL TM following this too.

we MUST take care of the fitness and physical training of the players first and foremost, before attempting to instill various tactics and formations in them.

[Guru]

DD jan,

The word I used was "tarnishing" not "thrashing". The reason was that your comment implied that IFO's bandwidth was not enough to support smooth viewing of the video. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

[Doctor DOOM]

DD jan,

The word I used was "tarnishing" not "thrashing".

see?
I told you I'm going blind !
so ....

[Paradigm]

I really had so high hopes in Shojaei after the Bosnia game, but I was so much disappointed by him when I saw him in the stadium against Angola. His decision making was very slow and so often he picked out the wrong pass that I really wrote him off. Now he was good again, but he needs to be more effective to win my trust back.

And I never said Mobali sucks, I just think he is not good enough to earn a call-up instead of Karimi, Zandi, Jabbari, Shojaei, now Mohammad Nouri or an in-form Navidkia. If none of those players is available, I have no problem seeing Mobali play.

Of course a first minute goal is a huge blow, we saw that in the friendly against Korea Branko was bashed for, however, what I was referring to was how the team defended when they ran out of stamina in second half. It was a joke and we were lucky to just concede 2 more, while despite the players were totally exhausted at WC as well, they still were perfectly organized.

Mobali exclusively for corner kicks and set pieces, but he did not deliver those during this game. He should stop playing in UAE and move back to IPL. Aside from that he is best used as a technical sub. Also, really, during the Mexico game, nobody was there in front to make a use of these Mobali crosses. In the old days we had Daie to pull two defenders so others could use the vacuum, but now, virtually nobody.

So to be precise, I don't see Mobali as a sub for Karimi, I see him functioning in a different role providing the long balls. But someone has to be there to use them. This game, I think only Hesseini had a header one time off of such a corner which was a missed opportunity. Hashemian being there would do some good but we need to find a tall center forward for the future. Can't sit there for him to just come along, have to actively look for one. Maybe Daie can donate a DNA sample? <hehe>

As for Shojaie, a few times he started a nice move from behind the center line, clearing a few players with his skills and ball control, but neither took a shot nor managed to correctly incense someone inside the box. So there were some bright moments by him that were never brought to bear fruit.

[zzgloo]

I also watched the game....and although i was very disappointed after the "Bott-kicking "...then,I told myself...'what did you expect?.....to beat Mexico in Mexico,with you B team who had one practice together,and coaching of GN ???
.................
And here is my two cents :

1-The team was absulotly under no coaching plan,that any one can notice.

2-The secound half,started by Mexican coach ( jugo sanchez) ,backing down,and thinking,the Iranian coach,is going to come up with some super avangard technique........but guess what ? he saw nothing, so he went back on scoring two more goals.

3-Our offense was totaly taking cared of.....not a single design attack in the entire game...the mexican defense just dominated.

4-Our gaol keeper !!?.....we need to just give up on the idea of haveing a good goal keeper.

..................................................
Conclusion :...
After a good old fashon " Bott kicking"......
We as a fan need to come down from our horses and see who we realy are .
We are a culture of IRIB2 starting the game after 25 minutes !
We have a football class,that players, when they want to pass from point A to point B...the player at point B has to wait till the ball rolls slowly to get to him, and should go toward the ball...... as in other footballs, ball gets to the player B fast .
We have a football,who without 4 or 5 legioners, is as good as bangaladesh !
we have a football,that some one like GN wins its league !
......It was not so much 4-0 that is the case.....it was because,we desereved worse !

[Ali Chicago]

Just back from Dixi land (Southern Part of USA) and watched the taped game on Telemundo in Spanish only (to not get influenced by the reporters etc.).

One needs to watch a game several times really to be able to analyze it, since the first time one is very emotional (specially for TM games). But based on only one watching my two cents:

Positives:

I was very proud of our players. They went to Mexico, get a shitty goal the first minute, but showed class and heart and played their game. In a day that luck angle was flying on Mexicans head, and totally against us, our players except the last 15 minutes of the game, played toe to teo against Mexican in their home field. Iran played a high calibers team in their home field and went down very early but they played soccer. They didn't get into these let's defend the box with 10 players.

At times there were flashes of good ball possesion in the midfield (specially when Nekonam was involved).

Iran showed spirit and played soccer, I know the whole 4-0 thing is embaressing, but this game wasn't a 4-0 game. It could have been easily a -4-2 0r 4-3 even. To be hoenst if it wasn't for exteremly lucky Mexican forward or maybe horrible mistakes by our defenders, Mexico couldn't have converted on more than 50% of their chances.

From what I recall (watched the game at 1 AM to 3 AM), Iran did have a plan, diagonal passes to the forwards and pass back, relying on the shots from Nekoonam, Mobali, Zandi. These seem to be the two tactics. To be honest Iran to some degree had limited sucess even.

Despite what I read, I think Enayati was BRILIANT. Please go and watch the game and try to put your bias away and watch Enayati again. Go laugh at me. He really tortured the Mexican defenders in the air, on the ground. The biggest mistake of GN IMHO is subbing him instead of Rajabzadeh. Rajabzadeh sounded very spirited and trying very hard, even chasing no hope balls, but his impact was none.

I know, I will be accused of being biased, but to me, this team played better than our first team in WC2006 against Mexico (despite in WC we had better result). Again we were playing in their homefield.

Negatives:

Mobali, Rajabzadeh were the least effective players. Midfield didn't support the forwards on the long diagonal passes and as a result we were outnumbered on our attacks.

GN huge mistake to pull Enayati out. Bringing Ebrahim Sadeghi in was good, Sadeghi showed amazing guts to play in his first big time match and effectively slow down and to some degree controled Gudardo (btw Gudardo was chosen as the MVP of the game by fans). No wonders he has a high impact on Saipa's game. Rajabzadeh should have been pulled out not Enayati.

Sadeghi (Left Back) was under a lot of perssure, in part because in the second half, Zandi played in front of him mostly and Zandi isn't much of a defensive player.


GN kept both Kazemian and Rajabzadeh in the field. To me it was a huge mistake. I am not sure who else he had on the bench as forwards, but these two definitly were done passed 60th minutes.

Kameli tried hard, but he simply was outplayed. He wasn' t fast enough on both first and second goals. We were really suseptable in the center of defense.

This is a genearl problem in Iranian football, that our players don't participate in the game (as much as they should) when they dont' have the ball (Bazi bedoon toop). Our players aren't good in the (baazi bedoone toop) defensively (supporting pressuring defender) or offensively (making the supporting run, running in width to make yourself available to receive a pass, runs on flank).
In one of the coaching courses, the trainer mentioned that a superstar like Zidan might have the ball for a total of 2 minutes. He went to showed us how he came to that number (how long ball in is the air (goal kicks, free throws, crosses), how long ball is kicked out of the field, etc. etc.). So if you subract these times from 90 minutes and then divide the remaing 60 minutes among 22 players (you get to almost 2 minutes for the superstar (an average player even less).
So back to my point about "bazi bedoone toop" , when Mexico had the ball and attacking us, a lot of ball watching happened (specially on corners and free kicks). DD mentioned one very prominent case on the Mexico's first goal.

Conclusion
========
To me these are the main pionts:
Despite the really poor result, overall I am happy with the performance. 5-6 of these players showed the have the spirital, technical, tactical capacity to play against big teams.

Our team showed its fighting spirit.

Team need to work on offensive transition. Specilly midfielders need to add more often and faster provide the second wave of attack and win the returned ball by the opponent in front of the opponents 18 yard.

Center of defense was very weak. I am not that worried though, because, Rezai will be playing there and he hopefully is much better than Kameli. Or at least, this was Kameli's worst day (a.ka. He isn't great, but he is this bad!!!).

Left side showed very susepect.
Stamina again was an issue toward the end of the game.

A few of our players (Sadeghi and Kazemian to mention a few) really need to work on their temper management. A stupid red card or stupid retaliation (remmber Zare aganist Chineese player in AFC championship (2004)), can totally change the outcome of the game.

GN is a smart man, I hope when he watches the game, he identify his mistakes in subs. GN wasn't able to use the Subs effectively today.

[Dubxl152]

Just back from Dixi land (Southern Part of USA) and watched the taped game on Telemundo in Spanish only (to not get influenced by the reporters etc.)
.

Thank you for the indepth analysis Ali jan, many good points that i agree with and a few i would like to discuss further. unfortunatly im at work so it will have to wait until tonight. have a great day my friend and thanks again for the well thought out, indepth analysis.

Ali Jan:

This is a genearl problem in Iranian football, that our players don't participate in the game (as much as they should) when they dont' have the ball (Bazi bedoon toop). Our players aren't good in the (baazi bedoone toop) defensively (supporting pressuring defender) or offensively (making the supporting run, running in width to make yourself available to receive a pass, runs on flank).
In one of the coaching courses, the trainer mentioned that a superstar like Zidan might have the ball for a total of 2 minutes. He went to showed us how he came to that number (how long ball in is the air (goal kicks, free throws, crosses), how long ball is kicked out of the field, etc. etc.). So if you subract these times from 90 minutes and then divide the remaing 60 minutes among 22 players (you get to almost 2 minutes for the superstar (an average player even less).
So back to my point about "bazi bedoone toop" , when Mexico had the ball and attacking us, a lot of ball watching happened (specially on corners and free kicks). DD mentioned one very prominent case on the Mexico's first goal..

Beautifull said.

In regard to enayati i have the following to say: the man had a decent day overall, much of the extreme criticism is due to 2 main factors:
A: he miss a sitter of a goal, he lacks composure and obviously finishing skill at the TM level.
B: he said "My dead body can score on Mexico"........ big words from a man who has score 6 Goals against Asian competition.

He failed to do what he claimed his dead body could he embaressed himself with that god awful 1v1 with the goalie i mean come on i understand if the shots on goal and the GK gets to it but it was a complete miss (reminiscent to baggio in 94). That kinda miss & talk deserves criticism.

I know, I will be accused of being biased, but to me, this team played better than our first team in WC2006 against Mexico (despite in WC we had better result). Again we were playing in their homefield.

I see where your coming from, but also keep in mind that this team didnt have Zinha,Rafael Marquez or Oswaldo Sanchez. Their WC team was excellent, they lost to Argentina in an amazing game where they played world class football. We played World Class football for the first 45mins, the team from the other day never came close to matching the first 45 of that game. In my opinion the friendly from the other day was like watching the second half of of Iran vs Mex @WC for 90 minutes. halam behamkord dadash, bazimoon eftezah bood. Over all a Great analysis, I really enjoyed knowing that it came from a coach that has a clearly different perspective than that of your average TM fan.

[zzgloo]

Ali jan.....

.....The question is,we as fans, how best could help our TM ?.........
The fifa said : "" Iran,preparing for next mouth's asian Cup,were reduced to trying to get back into game with shots from distance "".
All other analysises talk about, waisted chance,or ambarrsement, or total domination......yet, you are saying, we should look at positive,that GN did not play negative,......ok, I understand,yet still not agree, I like to ask you to compaire this game, with the game in WC, between Brazil and GHANA.....do you recall ?...
in that game, Ghana, lost 3-0...and yet did not play negative football.....but these two games were totaly diferent.....ghana, although loseing big time, yet, did present talent, style,and class of football.......
But, what did we show ?

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jan.....
.....The question is,we as fans, how best could help our TM ?.........
The fifa said : "" Iran,preparing for next mouth's asian Cup,were reduced to trying to get back into game with shots from distance "".

Well, I haven't seen the article, so don't knwo the context, but I dont' expect the article in main fifa site, goes to detailed technical analysis of the game. They just do a very high level analysis.

Plus, in my opinion when GN pulled Enayati, he made his biggest mistake. Our forward line didnt' exist that day. Kazemeeyan and Rajabzadeh despite trying very hard were ineffective. Hence Iran had to settle for long distance shots and corner or free kicks.

All other analysises talk about, waisted chance,or ambarrsement, or total domination......yet, you are saying, we should look at positive,that GN did not play negative,......ok, I understand,yet still not agree,

Well, I dont' dare to compare myself with other analysts, but only time will show. This was our reserve team against mexico's best team. Dublx mentioned Zinha and Marquez not being there, but this new senstaional kid Nigir was there and few others, so pretty much it is safe to say our B team played against the Best current Mexico team. We had a bad result, but we played ok considering we had our weaker team, it was their home game and our B team had only a few proactices to gether.

I like to ask you to compaire this game, with the game in WC, between Brazil and GHANA.....do you recall ?...

To be honest, I don't think our football is still at the level of first class African teams. Iran in my opinion is at the level of second tier african teams. Africans will dominate in the future, they have the power soccer abilities of European and technical abilities of the South American, all they are lacking is organization and tactical maturity. With a lot of their players, play in Europe, the tactical maturity will come soon. Point is I don't comapre Iran Vs. Ghana. They are a head and shoulder above us. Having said that, I think (and maybe I am biased here), but our team player toe to toe against Mexican.

Actually, your comparison is very relevant. If someone hadn't seen that game Ghana Brazil and only hear the result (3-0) for Brazail. He/she would think Ghana was awful. Which it wasn't the case. Iran's B team wasn't as good as Ghana in that game and for most part it was a 50-50 game, but definitly 4-0 didnt' represent the through status of the game on the pitch.

in that game, Ghana, lost 3-0...and yet did not play negative football.....but these two games were totaly diferent.....ghana, although loseing big time, yet, did present talent, style,and class of football.......
But, what did we show ?

I don't think we played negative football. At times Mexican pushed us back due to their sheer power. That is totally different from playing a 3-6-1 and holding back, that was very customary in the past in our TM.

Toward 60-70 th minutes look at the combination passes on our left flank. Look at the diagonal passess to Kazemina and Rajabzadeh. Please watch the game again and u see what i am talking about. Iran's football never was that great in slow build ups (with a large number of consecutive passes in the middle, that is Arabic countries style). We at least in Asia, combined technical ability of our players with somewhat fast transitions (at the asian level) and a strong, big, hard nose defenders to dominate asia. All of these elements (except our tough big strong defense) was there. However against a stronger team (Mexico).

Anyhow this is how I see it. Time will show.

[Ali Chicago]

Thank you for the indepth analysis Ali jan, many good points that i agree with and a few i would like to discuss further. unfortunatly im at work so it will have to wait until tonight. have a great day my friend and thanks again for the well thought out, indepth analysis.
Ali Jan:
Beautifull said.
In regard to enayati i have the following to say: the man had a decent day overall, much of the extreme criticism is due to 2 main factors:
A: he miss a sitter of a goal, he lacks composure and obviously finishing skill at the TM level.
B: he said "My dead body can score on Mexico"........ big words from a man who has score 6 Goals against Asian competition.
He failed to do what he claimed his dead body could he embaressed himself with that god awful 1v1 with the goalie i mean come on i understand if the shots on goal and the GK gets to it but it was a complete miss (reminiscent to baggio in 94). That kinda miss & talk deserves criticism.
I see where your coming from, but also keep in mind that this team didnt have Zinha,Rafael Marquez or Oswaldo Sanchez. Their WC team was excellent, they lost to Argentina in an amazing game where they played world class football. We played World Class football for the first 45mins, the team from the other day never came close to matching the first 45 of that game. In my opinion the friendly from the other day was like watching the second half of of Iran vs Mex @WC for 90 minutes. halam behamkord dadash, bazimoon eftezah bood. Over all a Great analysis, I really enjoyed knowing that it came from a coach that has a clearly different perspective than that of your average TM fan.

Dublx jaan,

Thanks for the kind words. I tried to clairfy some of the points in my other post. As for Enayati please watch him how many times he has the ball in the 37 minutes that he was in and each time, he did well. For a forward at the Asian level, a conversion rate of three to one is good. It means 3 chances one goal. Enayati had once chance and he couldn't finish. I won't ask for impossible from him.

Thank god Iranian papers aren't published for two days (due to 14 and 15 khordad), I bet they will be full of GLOOM and DOOM (not pun intended DD Jaan), specially Jahanefootball and Ardeshir Laroudi (despite all the respect I have for the man as an old sport reporter and analyst). Rummors have it that game wasnt' broadcasted until 30-35th minutes in Iranian tv, but despite that, I am sure there will whole series of GLOOM and DOOM I bet you.

We all say things that later we might regret. The guy has been in our soccer for like 8-10 years and just remembering that one sentence (that probably is exagerated) isn't fair I guess. You know how many times Hashemian said he won't play for TM and stuff. If we keep judging Hashemian in lights of those comments, i think we will develope a critical attitude toward him.

As for Mexico team not having Marquez, Zinha and others, I think no team will remain exactly the same. They had this senseational kid Gudardo, and Nigri, that were really good and torutured our defense well. So overall I think this is fair to say, Mexico had its full strength team. We will see how many of these mexican players will play in Copa America in end of the June. I am confident you will see 90% of the players who played against Iran as starter or subs.

[Martin-Reza]

2- MR jan:

1- whoaa whooaaaa, you are really pushing Mobaali down the chain, arent you?
we dont know how jabbari will be after his injury. remember navidkia?
and navidkia also has a lot to prove also, before being compared to Iman.
noori? come on. the kid is GOOD. but he, also, has a lot to prove before being compared to Iman.

Of course Mohammad Nouri has still much to prove, but from what I saw from him so far I have no doubts he will deliver any proof in the coming years.

And yes, Mobali is better than an out-of-shape Navidkia or Jabbari, but we don't need more (or rather there is no space for more than) than 2 playmaking options in a 23-men roster, and Mobali simply is not better than Karimi and Zandi.

And Paradigm jan, the Mobali-argumentation also works the other way round: Rajabzadeh, Enayati and Kazemian scored plenty of goals and played plenty of good matches on different levels - with other players providing better balls. I think not they but Mobali was the problem (of course only a part of the problem in Mexico). His 1 goal and 2 assists in 32 TM caps support my point.