PP v.s. ESES Roles in Persian Football

[Ali Chicago]

The Red jan when i say partibazi and negative impact im referring to is the club mismanagement of fund, pocketing of players salaries and the incompetent individuals in charge (mostly due to IR), I look at the forces that ESES & PP exhort on TM staff to get their players into TM and raise a stink when foolad players who have outpreformed theirs get selected. I refer to the partybazi that occurs when a PP or SS player is suspended, lowered suspensions etc. I know that our whole football system is corrupt, but for some reason SS & PP are the figureheads of the corruption (IR of course the king of kings lol). I understand what you are saying about government intervention in PP & SS being detrimental to the teams and i can see it myself. The Azadi issue should be resolved with all these new stadiums being built (if they ever get finished. PP & SS are funded by the government like almost all the other clubs in the IPL.... but why are they so overfunded compared to the other teams? Perhaps im a conspiracy theorist Red jan or i have a poor grip on whats going on in Iran but when i look at PP & ESES, i dont just see two clubs that many people say "without them Iranian football would be nothing", i see that and i agree with it, but i also see the clubs as a barriar to the advancement of Iranian football, the favoritism will always be there because the fan base is there, and this favoritism be it in the form of additional income, referee love or stadium will always keep the smaller bashgahs in their place with no room for advancement at a disadvantage. from the information in this thread and our conversations i agree that ESES & PP are very important to the very institution of Iranian Club Football, when and if Iranian football is ever allowed to become privatized we will see the advancement of all our clubs and the eradication of gov corruption from our clubs (with the addition of corporate corruption). I belive the even though the gov is currently weakening PP & SS in the past they have been instrumental to their survival, the tide of gov support/ favor sways with the election of IR president.

ACtually PP and EsEs both are up to their neck in debt right now PP owes in around 7Billion tomans and EsEs heard somewhere between 3-5 Billion. So I dont' think there is money to be pocketed by the managers to be honest.

As for players not getting suspension and stuff it goes both ways. Look at Akbarpoor, getting banned for 7 games (supposedly insultiing blue fans). Point is when a club is popluar, game is broadcasted live and every player's move is under microscope. If Fajr was playing aboomoslem and Akbarpoor was doing the same move while playing in Fajr, his action was probably never noticed even. Plus a player when not playing in EsEs or PP isn't under that much media focus and attention. So dealing with that needs an extra level of professionalisem that most of our players lack.

Ali Dai got his head butting thing reduced as well. So, it is not just PP and EsES. If you are connected you make things happen your way. Look at Mr. Saket Chariman of Sepahan (many Isfahanies since the Islamic Reveloution were very influentials due to mostly religious culture that somewhat was established in Isfahan even during the Shah's regime). Saket is very influential and try to make things happen for Sepahan ( I don't blame him btw at tall). As a chairman that is his job. You live in US and must be familiar with the influencing. It is a well undrestood concept even within Corporate America. This is called Influencing which a rough defintion will be using the current system to change the outcome in your favor (hopefully using it legally too).

[Mansoor]

Babak jaan, sorry for late reply. I haven't had the time to read the posts and respond but duplicate threads in F+ and football forum are OK, as some in football forum may wish to contribute to same subjects discussed here. Thanks for the courtesy to ask.
Mokhlesim.

[Dubxl152]

Babak jaan, sorry for late reply. I haven't had the time to read the posts and respond but duplicate threads in F+ and football forum are OK, as some in football forum may wish to contribute to same subjects discussed here. Thanks for the courtesy to ask.
Mokhlesim.

Is there a way to duplicated this thread in the football forum with the posts that have been made? If a mod or admin could tell me how or assist me in doing so it would be greatly appriciated. Mansoor Khan, no worries. thank you for the reply i appriciate you taking the time to respond.

[Mansoor]

Babak jaan, if we duplicate the thread with contents and the posts, then we would carry the discussion "out of" F+ forum. That would pre-empt the discussion level here. If you wish to open a duplicate thread, please open a new one, and if you want, you can put a link to the posts here as well.

[Ali Chicago]

Dublx Khan,

Please read the interview of the Ghamkhar on page 12 of the Jahanefootball of Monday. I think the link is www.jahanefootball.net.

You will see how political turmoil and political instablity has led to a management instablity in PP and EsEs, which maybe wasn't intended by the Sazemene Tarbeeyat Badani, but nevertheles it is a reality.

I posted this to maybe shed a light on your earlier comments about Party Bazi for EsEs and PP.

[Dubxl152]

Dublx Khan,
Please read the interview of the Ghamkhar on page 12 of the Jahanefootball of Monday. I think the link is www.jahanefootball.net.
You will see how political turmoil and political instablity has led to a management instablity in PP and EsEs, which maybe wasn't intended by the Sazemene Tarbeeyat Badani, but nevertheles it is a reality.
I posted this to maybe shed a light on your earlier comments about Party Bazi for EsEs and PP.

Thank you dadash im looking forward to reading it, ill have my mom translate for me asap, unfortunatly dadash i cant read farsi anymore

[perspolees]

Taj in the former regime was supported by the government by PP and EsEs right now are both under TB and I don't think EsEs has any favor compared to PP at least.
As for the general question of why pp and EsEs are loved. I said it earlier, it is tradition. In our country football isn't as old as other countries like England and stuff in which each town had a team and as a results local fans supported the local team. In Iran before Jaam Takhte Jamshid, football was played in each local league (for example there was Tehran Championship, Ahwaz, Masjed Soleyman, Abadan etc. championship). Therefore whereever there was a strong football traditions locals were supporting the local teams and EsEs and PP don't have a huge base. For example in Abadan there was Jaam Abadan and I think Shaheen and in Abadan still (even during Takhte Jamsheed league era) Sanat Naft was the favorite team (EsEs and PP didn't have as many fans as sanat naft). Same was in Ahwaz, where Taj Ahwaz was very popular in Ahwaz (although they never made it to Takhte Jamsheed). EsEs Ahwaz is basically Taj Ahwaz. Same was in Tabriz for example , when Teraktor Sazi and to some degree Machine Sazi were the favorites.
But in the cities where football wasn't as strong, locals had no one to kind of get loyal too. So EsEs and PP were able to attract fans.
As for why other Tehrani clubs, like Homa, Banke Melli, Paas, Oghab never became as popular, it is just winning record. Other clubs except Paas at times never able to win. Paas was branded with Shaherbani and shahrebani didn't have any populairty among football fans. Specially the way (Ajans) were treating youngsters in Amjadeeyeh (very rough, the slighest sense of decent was met with buttons and clubs).

I beg to disagree!
first of all after the revolution it was persepolis fans who were beaten just for calling the team persepolis and not peeroozi. esteghlal fans were just fine in the corner where they always sat! even tho that just a couple years back they were chanting for the shahs team..
Many persepolis fans were arrested from the stands just for chanting persepolis....
Persepolis was training on davoodieh hills!! when esteghlal had Azadi stadium, and butt load of government favors..I

n the war days football as a general was side pushed so everything went sort of down hill but at all times persepolis was bounced around every year from this guy to that where esteghlal after was reinstated from third division relegation ( again with the support of government) came back to life and all of the support and help thru the akhoonds raised them up again.

in figure of speaking on proportions, It has not been until recently were esteghlal has had some monetary problems!! were persepolis has not had anything but monetary problems from the get go...

overall persepolis has been bounced around much more than esteghlal and it is evident in number of heads they have rolled so far and change they have had every year!! where as esteghlal has had much more support and stability.l Just look at the ceo's they have each changed...

I have not heard any top official ever claiming anything in favor of persepolis, nothing like aliabadi clearly saying it out loud that he will do his best for esteghlal to win it all...


Thruout even the first ipl season who was the owner of persepolis was not known, from bonyad, to sazman, to tarbiyat badani to abedini, to ....all the way to ghamkhat and then immediately after him khateeb...so it is for te past 2.5-3 years that for the first time we actually know at least tarbiyate badani is the to go organization but no body knows what is actually spent on the teams...

Esteghlal until recently ( last season) that for a brief period went under vezarat refah and got somewhat destabilized but for the rest of the times again relatively speaking has enjoyed the upper hand.

Please understand that in Iran there is no privatization. Even foolad, or Zob, or Sepahan have hands of government in them but because they have an oil industry related factory attached to it they have a budget for teams that is considered within their overhead, something that persepolis and esteghlal do not have. For these two teams government has to pay from somewhere, the difference is that within the government there is still plenty of differneces for instances teh money that rolls into oil industry related ministries is much different than the one that for instance comes into refah, health, etc...
esteghlal within the government has enjoyed stability of a semi budget up until recently something that persepolis has not had..

In the south where we had more arab hamvatans..and there was lots of oil money spent on the locals and the local teams taj and taj extensions back in the day and today esteghal and esteghlal extensions have been stronger(they have more government penetration) but in

The rest of the country back in the shahs term and now Persepolis has had and does have the majority of fans. but years have changed and our population has busted out of control many other issues are in this that I do not have the time to write about but if tomorrow persepolis plays tractor you dont doubt that we will still be the one with the biggest fan base but more of the traktor fans will get to get in the stadiums and will have a better showing. Same with esfehan , shiraz and mashhad . The same applies to Tehran as well. Back then tehran had 70k persepolisi and tajis were about 30k at the most. Tehran was 2-3 million and could produce that many fans that would go to derby. Coming from outside of tehran was not as popular as it is today...Now tehran is 15 mil and the persepolis fans in Azadi are still more but the esteghlalis get to have a better showing..somewhere in the 60-40 ratio but teh diff in fan base is still there, obviously a better showing in the stadiums have helped esteghlals image to collect more fans...but they are still no where near persepolis...

back on the topic:
fans and fan support is a must for any sport to advance. It is great that there is passion and love among people for theses teams. we need to build up on it rather than bang on it!
I truly believe that this will not happen without Persepolis's shiny presence in privatization of our football. Something that under iri will never happen.