True State of Football in Iran Surfaces in Mexico

[leviathan]

I found this article on the front page under top stories -this was one of the best and most accurate articles i have read so far.

i can not tell you anything there i disagree with.....could you read it and post your comments?

(look under latest head lines)

[BehzadB]

....could you read it and post your comments?

(look under latest head lines)

Basheh, chashm!

[BehzadB]

the article is written very well. thanks to mansoor khan.

In a General sense I agree with everything that was said in that Article.

However, I would have liked the Article to refer to a very important fact that this group of players were playing for the very FIRST time ever, together..

Our roster list in the last 5 years shows that this roster was no where near anything that we have seen before and therefore cohesiveness would obviously be missing.. and playing against a team from a relatively top football country magnified that problem even more..

Ultimately , the root problems in our football are so grave that it seems that no amount of friendlies will take care of that lack of team play or "cohesiveness".. But still, it was their first game!! This wasn't even our IPL's A team.

[Doctor DOOM]

just as behzad said, we cannot comment on things like teamwork or cohesion when these players havent played together before and havent had even minimum required training for a game !
he is also very apt, as this team was missing many prominent IPL players from teams like sepahan & pp. so this cant be considered the "best of IPL" even !

perhaps factors such as the long flight and high altitude could contribute to ANY team's performance, let alone this team.
we could even add the bad timing of the game as the players from IPL had just finished their long and arduous season and havent had time to rest.

I say the above based on a general idea that ANY team to play as a TEAM, ought to have the least amount of training together. also the general understanding that long flights, games held too close to leagues' endings, high altitude do affect even the best teams in the world ... let alone a bunch of semi-pro ( at best ) collection from Iran .

I havent watched the game ( except the first few minutes ) so I cannot vouch for what Ali jan said. but he did say after a couple of days, with receding of emotions, he watched the game and did find some positives out of the game.

I dont want GN at TM's helm. that is obvious.
I highly doubt he'd mount any kind of challenge to the other asian teams' coaches in asia cup.
I also think even if we had our best players, coordinated and fit, against mexico IN MEXICO, 9 out of 10 times, we'd lose anyway.
but fair is fair.
THIS particular game cannot be any representative of our football's state.
definitely not.

maybe another day, when the very same players were rested and had enough training sessions together could ( and would ) perform better and display a more correct picture of IPL/uae to us.
I, personally, will not hold this recent game as an example of what IPL/uae collection can do.

my do zaari.

[faraz]

...

you know doctor doom...it's a little strange to see you presenting the exact same arguments we used to present when trying to defend branko, and in exactly the same manner!

team cohesion, altitudes, weather, not enough time to practice...these were all worries for our team even before Ghalenoie, except twice in my memory - once before the last asian cup (in which we did fairly well) and once before the world cup (which we did very poorly). at least we do agree on the point that ghalenoie is much too small for our national team

i waited a little while to post on the mexico game because to be frank, it was an embarassment to iran , and not only on a footballing level.

to get a red card, act violently, and show complete disrespect to the ref and to the mexicans on the field made me sick to my stomach, and to be fair, we deserved a lot harsher punishments than just one red

beyond these issues, we could not string 2 passes together, and i've said it once, but i'll say it again: mobali, enayati, kazemian, sadeghi and all of the other useless players should sit their asses on the bench and instead of joking around, talking, and having long unimpressed faces whenever the camera is on them, they should actually watch how our a-team constructs attack and functions as a unit.

one major talking point for me personally is the kind of player shojaei can become for iran. even though he made a couple of mistakes, he is incredibly impressive on the ball, shows good vision, and has precise passing. other than that, zandi showed he should be called up consistently, and doesn't seem to have lost any of his playing abilities...he's still a one touch kind of guy, still has great technique, and still has a great left foot

if it were up to me, i'd include shojaei as a surprise attacking midfielder, and move karimi to be hashemian's strike partner, with kia, teymourian and nekounam completing the 5 man midfield

[Doctor DOOM]

lol
faraz jan, before drawing undue comparisons, purely based on the "language", it'd be wiser to see the details or think a minute longer.

so ;
1- Squad & teamwork :

branko having more or less the same squad , with legioners playing most of the games, for more than 5 years.
is supposed to be equal to GN taking a bunch of IPL ( not even whole IPL, as regular players from pp and sepahan were missing ) player who havent played together more than 2-3 training sessions


2- altitude, weather :
so playing in MEXICO in your books is equal to playing in AZADI ( compare diff altitudes too ) !


3- opposition:
sitting in Iran for most of those friendly games ( against triple digit fifa ranked teams like panama, macedonia, lybia, azerbaijan, .... ) is the same as Mexico , fifa's TOP 10 team !... while we TRAVEL for allegedly 35 hours ( but I'd say a day ) to reach the venue of this game !


ok, dude.
whatever you say.
if you still think I am saying the SAME thing about the SAME issues, ... then I cant help you here.

I'd suggest a minute of pondering before replying immediately.
goes a long way

---------------------------

but I agree on shojaei as a serious prospect.

on ur line up; who is to man the left?
again zandi?
LEFT side ?
remember ?

[Ali Chicago]

I am glad you opened this thread. That article is well written and very informative and shows the depth of the knowledge of it writer Mansoor Khan. But with no disrespect to Mansoor Khan, it misses a few facts that makes the comparison between this game and WC game against Mexico as comparison between apples and oranges.

As DD jaan mentioned this team isn't even the full strenght IPL team. To name a few, PP and Sepahan players are missing (nikhbaskt, Madanchi, Kaabi, Benghar) plus injured players (Nosrati, Khatibi, ...).
Also, Iran's WC team players had played with each other for almost 3-4 years. This team that played in San Luis Posti on Saturday played together not a single game. Maybe they held one or two practice sessions. I am not going to even talk about long trip and time zone and all that.

At the end maybe the conclusions that the article got is still very valid. My only point is that, judging based on this one single game doesn't give us enough valid data points.

Game in the WC and this game was very very different. That game was a WC game and this game wasn't even a preparation game for IRAN (since we didnt' have 8-9 starters). This game was used by GN basically to identify the remaining 2-3 open spots and see who is who in the big games. Find subs that he can rely on during the big games. Furthermore, Iran until Enayati was pulled out actually was getting close to Mexico's goal. Rumors have it that Enayati blood pressure fallen down and that is why he was pulled out. After pulling Enayati out we didn't have real clsoe threats on Mexico's goal and had to settle for set pieces and long range shots from pass backs. Point is, this team on Saturday, didn't have a forward line. Rajabzadeh, tried very hard, but it just wasn't his day (since he didn't have enough support from midfield).

So comparing this game with Iran Mexico game in the WC to me isn't a ture equal comparison.

In the other thread I listed the high quality goal opportunities both Iran and Mexico had on the goal (for the first half at least). Mexico on total had 6-7 opportunities and scored 4. Iran had about 6-7 as well and scored none. So although the game was 4-0, the score didnt' reflected the true nature of the game that was played IMHO.

[faraz]

lol dd jan, you have ur way with words, that's for sure...ever try law?

so against all of those teams, you mean to tell me branko had the squad for 10 months? during his 5 year tenure, how long do you possibly think he had the team at his disposal in TOTAL? and funny, you talk about travelling, but the majority of our players had to "travel" to get to Iran, especially against those "triple digit" ranked teams, and basically WALK right on the field from the airport...and our B-team, those already in iran...well you all know where i stand on that issue

btw, the ONE REAL high profile friendly we had b4 the WC you failed to mention...i.e., the one against croatia where we were about to beat a team who hadn't lost at home in how long? it went quite well, wouldn't you say?

anyways, enough about the past

zandi?...no, he should not be on the left, no doubt about that one...if anything, he should be used as a sub for shojaei in that attacking mid. position...

in fact, now that i think about it, i didn't include a left-sided midfielder/winger in my last post, and to be honest, i don't think we have anyone fit for that position...i had earlier suggested either kaebi/kia constantly switching wings during the game, so we get our 2 speediest/best wingers against different opposition...if not, then kaebi should stay on the bench (although this bothers me) and one of the useless IPL wingers should take over, with attacks being concentrated obviously through the middle/right side...i don't think ghalenoie has even come close to finding a solution for this problem??

and ali jan, i completely disagree with your assessment that the "score of the friendly against mexico did not truly reflect the game"...i thought it was a clinic by mexico, who showed professionalism in their game as well as how far off IPL standards are from Mexican league standards! they had alot of fluidity and speed (recall that scene, where the mexican player flies down the right, beats 2 guys, comes square, beats another guy, plays a nifty give and go in order to be in a shooting position, and gets a good shot at goal!...we were left standing CLUELESS!), and were clearly a much better team...they deserved the 4-0 win...

[Mansoor]

Thanks Iraj jaan for posting this.

The focus of the article was not so much on comparing this game to any game, or the result. It was about players' understanding of the game and how poorly they were executing the basics of the game, with Ghalenoei or else.

The support, the runs, the plays w/o the ball, the usage of open spaces, and very basic aspects of a modern football was poorly executed. I don't think this team had a chance with any coach, Ghalenoei or else, for 7 days to repair fundamental problems that could be observed and were so obvious, especially in comparison to the opposite side that had "signs" of a world class team.

That is what I basically meant in the article. Yes, there were certain issues to consider such as the time zone and altitude, but to be honest, certain flaws don't have anything to do with tiredness. From physical condition of players such as Rajabzadeh and Enayati (which I had seen myself from close range last year) to their move with and without the ball, the display was simply embarrassing. In terms of scientific and technical aspect of the game, it looked like bunch of illiterate guys having scientific debate with college graduates.

The article mainly discussed that aspect of the game, and the true state of our footballers in Iran. Issues that are rooted in lack quality coaching from young age to learn playing modern football. And it also discussed where the root of coaching deficiency was; poor and corrupt management.

That aside, the coaching in the game also showed to be of concern. Due to issues that you all listed well, I didn't wanna go deep in the article about the coaching aspect of this game, but as much as the circumstances wouldn't allow most coaches to shine in this match, there were also issues in regard to "training flaws" that were obvious. This team lacks an international trainer, Iranian or not, and those in the staff will only hurt players by their out of date training style.

And as for the players and their time together, yes this team had not played together but most of them have been together in trainings and camps for a very long time. Let's take a second look at the starters:

Rahmati: Branko's second option for a long time, at least 3 years since Busan.
Sadeghi: Branko's reserve defender for Branko's last year.
Kameli: Branko's reserve defender for 3 years, but not for Branko's last year. Had many caps w/ the team.
Kazemian: Branko's reserve. Had many caps w/ the team.
Nekunam: Branko's starter for 5 years.
Zandi: Branko's starter for a over a year.
Mobali: Branko's reserve for over 3 years, but not for Branko's last year.
Zareh: Branko's starter.
Rajabzadeh: Branko's reserve. Had many caps w/ the team.
Enayati: Branko's reserve from time to time, had few caps w/ the team.

Only Hosseini that Branko considered too slow for 4-men defense in international stage, was a new face of the eleven, but even he has been with the team for the past year. So them being completely new team and all is "partially" incorrect. They weren't bunch of strangers to each other neither.

Cheers.

p.s. I don't know how in the world I forget to write about players behavior. It was suppose to be toward the end but some how I forgot. I had intended to mention that we even lost the game in that department.

[BehzadB]

And as for the players and their time together, yes this team had not played together but most of them have been together in trainings and camps for a very long time.

But even in Training camp these guys wouldn't line up as one team.. Training together as part of large group, is much different than playing on the same team in a competitive match...

I just don't know how the combination of Zareh, Jalali, Kameli was going to be holding up against Mexico's ofense..

I think there is a huge blame on the coaching staff in their player line up.... Sadeghi was playing midfield?? Zareh on the left side of defense in that stupid 3.5.2 formation?? Kazemian as a winger?? just those three moves alone was enough to turn even a good team, into a bad team.

by the way, I would have for sure made a reference about that Tarzan guy with his stupid hair style... (Kazemian!!)

[Doctor DOOM]

lol faraz jan.
"law" ? look, I'm already hated by a lot of people who KNOW me.
a few of them my patients !!
I dont need the WHOLE BLOODY WORLD to despise me and ridicule me with every party joke !


2- no. but I AM saying branko's team was more or less the same for almost 3-4 years and they had indeed played as a team many times before those games.
there IS a difference here.

3- LOL again.
you just made things even more easy.
yes, all those "triple digit ranked" team ALSO TRAVELED TO IRAN! I didnt work on this part !
so us beating them shd be taken with even bigger pinch of salt.
and those losses ?
I believe you DONT want me to expound on this part ( the picture wouldnt be very pleasant and not a sight for ppl with heart or kidney problems )
we'll just give you a "skip jail, go free" card this time
( next time, I may not be in such a good mood , btw )


================

mansoor jan, if the artcile was aimed to show the poor state of football in Iran as a general observation and not taking this game as a point of proof, then you are absolutely right.
corruption, poor training methods, poorer facilities, no pro mentality, ... all were evident and are always evident in our club as well as TM games.

this game, per se is NOT the only proof for all that.
in fact we dont have ANY game to say "OTHERWISE", be it now or 2 years back or 10 years back.


===============

behzad jan ;
1- that MIDFIELD player is EBRAHIM sadeghi of saipa ( captain ).

2- I agree. calling up kameli and zareh can be equivalent to shooting oneself in the head .
especially since these two havent been called up ever since that bum left.
actually even before that auspicious occasion.
kameli was dropped months before the WC and zareh got injured before the WC.

[BehzadB]

behzad jan ;
1- that MIDFIELD player is EBRAHIM sadeghi of saipa ( captain ).

No, I was talking about Sadeghi of EsEs..
Zareh was playing the left back spot, which made it seem that Sadeghi was in the midfield (he was the fifth midfielder, playing a defensive role)..

Once he took zareh out, then Sadeghi moved to the left defense position.

[Ali Chicago]

No, I was talking about Sadeghi of EsEs..
Zareh was playing the left back spot, which made it seem that Sadeghi was in the midfield (he was the fifth midfielder, playing a defensive role)..
Once he took zareh out, then Sadeghi moved to the left defense position.

Seeing from TV it is very difficult to exactly find out the line up at least for me, but I think we were playing pseduo 3-5-2. With Zare playing Outside left mid (what they call Peestoon) and A.H. Sadeghi being the left back (I think they call it Defaee yarkoob in Iran now). Zare went out and Shojai took his place. A.H. Sadeghi wasn't as busy in the first half, because Gurdado on Mexico's left was the point of attack. In the second half Castillo got more active you exposed Sadeghi's lack of speed more.

Point is A.H. Sadeghi was never a mid-fielder.

[Mansoor]

^ Here is the line up and formation through out the game:

---------Enayati-----Rajabzaeh
---------------Mobali
-----------Zandi---Nekunam---Kazemian
Zareh
--------HSadeghi------Hosseini
----------------Kameli-----------
--------------Rahmati----------------

In defensive transition, the back line would look like this:
Zareh-Hsadeghi-Kameli-Hosseini with Kameli playing step back to sweep

===================================

---------Kazemian-----Rajabzaeh
---------------Mobali
-----------Zandi - Nekunam
Zareh -----------------------ESadeghi
--------HSadeghi---Hosseini
--------------Kameli-----------
--------------Rahmati----------------

For about 5 minute, Iran put Esadeghi in right and while Zareh was suppose to move forward, he couldn't do well.

===================================

---------Kazemian-----Rajabzaeh
---------------Mobali
Zandi-----Shojaei--Nekunam
----------------------------ESadeghi
--------HSadeghi--Hosseini
--------------Kameli-----------
--------------Rahmati----------------

Now, Zandi was the more offensive left piston while Esadeghi was staying back. So, in defensive tranistion, they would shift as follows:
Hsadeghi-Kameli-Hosseini-Esadeghi, with Kameli staying one step back to sweep.

=================

[BehzadB]

man.. I still can't figure out what was going on with our formation against Mexico.. No wonder everyone seemed so confused specially on the defensive line...

Or was it just me??