Successfull coaches in the history of Iran football ..

[Kavian]

This was thread started by one of our friends in the general forum, but I wanted to bring it over to get some F+ opinion.

Here is mine :

Thank you "news-breaker" for the list of managers you provided.

As far as I remember, a few coaches had a profound impact on our football, here is my list;

Frank O'Farrell (1974-1976) -- he established the foundation for what became the strongest team in Asia throughout the seventies. Brought the English style of football to TM. something very much desireable at that time.

Heshmat Mohajerani (1976-1978) -- probably one of most successful Iranian coaches in the history of Iran (and I am not saying this because he is related to me!). But he gained a lot of respect for Iranian football outside of our borders. His good run in the Asian Cups, WC of 78, are just a few to name! He also had to his advantage many factors such as, a good base from Frank O'Farrell days, Iranian booming economy, new and improved facilities, professional league, and money to spend.

Mohammad Mayeli Kohan (1995-1997) -- he put Iran's name on the football news once again after so many years. His successful run in the Asian cup of 1996, and the win of 6-2 over Korea made him a coach to be remembered. He also changed the style of Iranian TM football by making a very entertaining and attacking style.

Tomislav Ivić (1997-1998) -- He is the reason why we did well in 1998 WC. Ivic was the master mind of the our team's strategy in WC 98. Too bad that they didn't let him see the fruites of his efforts, otherwise he could have been another O'Farrel to our football.

Mansour Pourheidari (1998-2000) -- Inherited one of the strongest squads consisting of many star players in their primes. Iran enjoyed one of its strongest times during his coaching days. But he was also a very diciplined coach.

Branko Ivanković (2003-2006) -- A man with many friends and many enemies in Iran. Personally, I think Branko is probably the most successful foreign coach ever brought to Iran. He was successfull in terms of his ability to obtain good results. Some argue that was the only thing he was concerned with and that he ignored the development of new talent to replace the aging players. And there might be some truth to that, but let's not forget that, never in the recent history we won the Asian games, almost won the Asian Cup and qualified for the WC so easily.

[The-Red]

It is hard for me to see Pourheydari as a successful coach, same with Mayeli...I think we have had so much failures with Irooni coaches, our expectations have fallen...if winning the asian games is a success, then we should ad Ali parvin to that list!
I would only pick Mohajerani as far as the vatani ones.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Heshmat Mohajerani was more than a coach. He was a good manager and a team-psychologist in one person. Great understanding of the game and knew how to deal with all sort of characters. When he coached you saw friendship, harmony, and skills in TM!

[Hadi]

putting aside our football history before the revolution, Branko has been by far the best ever TM coach after the revolution.

I mean during the 80s we hardly had any football. It was the early 90s when coaches like Stanko and Mayeli gained some success at Asian level. But Iran always struggled against Asian sides, our team was unpredictable and so was the scoreline. Even people like Pourheydari, Blazevic and Shahrokhi could not change this (putting aside Ivic who in my eyes was the real reason why Iran did well in the 1998 WC).

But with Branko, TM started to become a true powerhouse, the team became organized and tactical who easily beat the teams which were weaker than Iran on paper. We no longer struggled against weaker Asian sides and qualified for the WC with ease and did well both in the Asian cup and the Asian Games. We also enjoyed our highest ever FIFA ranking during his time thanks to his great results (even though in the late stages his team played a more conservative football and internal problems during the WC had started to cause troubles and Branko was being a bit stubborn and selfish)

[Ali Chicago]

Branko's performance overall was averrage at best. What did he achieve?

Asian games Championship with our u23. We defended the whole time against Korea and won on PK in semi. In final against Japan, we won on two mistakes by Japanees.

Asian cup 2004 Iran came third a good result

WC qualification 2005. We came second in our group below Japan. had it been like the years before Iran wouldn't have qualified. Blaz team came second and had to go through palyoffs and eventually lost to Ireland.

WC 2006 Disasterous perofrmance by our team. Iran didnt' play well and came fourth in a group of four under Angola.

I am really surprised with this Mordeh Parasti farhang. Whatever we have is bad, When he/she is gone we worship him.

Shah when he was in Iran A dictator, X, Y whatever. When he left many people totally forgot his actions and talk about him as if during his reign Iran was a paradise.

Branko was here. Everybody was thirsty to his blood. Now that he is gone, a Hero.

Daei the same. What is wrong with us. Why these exterme reactions?

[BehzadB]

Parviz Dehdari! (RIP)

His introduction of players before and After 1979... the list is long. Some of his players went on to help us make it and win a game in WC 1998 (namely Abedzadeh and Zarincheh..) years after he had died!

I call that a Successful coach!

As far as wining championships.. I don't think anyone has been successful. We won 3 AC cup when most other teams sucked at Football, and we haven't won it for 30 years.

Asian games mean nothing! But even if we count those as success, Parvin won it with Dehdari's team and Branko won it because Japan brought it's Javanan team. Still, branko did manage to put a good team together.

[gol_kuchik]

I just can't believe Mayli Kohan can be listed as a top notch coach. Considering how
we almost did not qualify for 1998 due to his "management", how he destoryed foolad
this season. A 6-2 win is not my definition of success. Perhaps we have to first
define what we mean by successful and then list coaches who fit the category.

Since it is F+ forum, I would expect an analysis that covers:

The length of a coaches assignement
The condition under which a coach managed the team. For instance Nasser
Ebrahimi led us to a Semi-Final (4th place) in 1984 Asian cup, while the country
is at war with little resources, and very anti-football sentiment in the government.

This is fundamentally different than the conditon under which say Branko or
Mayeli took over.

To be answered also is what team a coach inherited, how they help build it up
or destroy it the coaches legacy and the system they used. How creative
were they? What new players did they discover. Chances they took and vision
they showed. So many question to be answered before we reach a conclusion.

[The-Red]

Hadi jan Branko was a man who cared for his own reputation and resume more than anything and never dared to come out of his conservative shell...he did not even have the balls to go back to Iran and take responsibility after the WC. Him insisting in using a few players over and over hurt our football and some other young playes very much and to this date we see the effects of that: example: not having a solid sub for Mirzapour by playing Mirza in almost every game that now we have to pray Roudbarian doesn't make a mistake in goal.

[Kavian]

Gentlemen,

Please state your opinions and if you have a point, please provide proof. Let's avoid to prove each other wrong.

Cheers!
K.

[Doctor DOOM]

I think we shd first DEFINE "successful in history" first.
are we merely talking about the "results" ; meaning trophies and rankings?

or are we talking about "contributions" which may be tangible as well as those intangible ones.

by intangible, I mean those deeds that didnt exactly result in any trophy. but made a positive impact on our team and history.

for example, MK may not have got much.
but let us be fair. his AC96 team is where most of us either re-united with "TEAM MELLI" or in case of younger fans, started their love with TM.
his AC96 team played very different from its previous avatars.
they had energy. they showed guts and aggressiveness.
they were exciting.
MK made the team younger.
....etc.
MK's '96 team is considered as a landmark in our recent football history.

so while many of you may discount MK as one useless idiot who has no tact and puts his foot in his mouth, ... even if his heart is in the right place ...., I say he was one of the most influential coaches we've had in a long long time.
yes. despite being tactically inferior and not a good manager of "star" players.

( btw, CIRO's selection is another "landmark" I consider in our history. not only for TM, but all of football in Iran , in general. when he refused to follow the tradition of picking 90% of TM from red & blue players. and showed guts in trusting no names like mirza or rahman .
what he did reverberated thru'out Iran and its clubs. as players who wanted TM, didnt have to join ss or pp to realize their dreams. clubs also didnt lose their stars for this reason, which made them stronger and more competitive.
this coincided with farahani's push for the PRO league, had MAJOR IMPACT in our history.
just wanted to mention this, since I spoke about "landmarks".)


================================

secondly, when we compare ( since this is about comparison ), we must keep a few parameters in mind.
one MAJOR factor is the DURATION of reign.
yes, branko had some good deeds and influence , especially in his first 2-3 years. we all must admit.
but the guy was in charge for 5 years. add to this , his tenure as ass coach to Ciro, which makes it more than 6 years.

which other coach has enjoyed such a long tenure to get some work done and implement his ideas or appear in different tourneys, which increases the chances of getting results?

if IVIC had enjoyed a quarter of what branko did, we'd have been waaayy superior today than where we are right now.
if Ciro had stayed after 2002WCQ's, we'd have been much stronger today than now.

how can I compare IVIC with branko?
or Ciro?
or .... ?


==========================

then there are other intangibles and factors to consider.

we all agree our present players ( meaning the past 4-5 years ) are steadily being exposed to TOP level int'l football. we have legioners who have worked or are working with great coaches in europe, playing along side great pro players, in great leagues ... .
so naturally, the TM coach will have such a talented and experienced lot to work with, which makes it far easier to get results.

now, compare this present situation with anytime before '98-'99.
did MK or Ivic or poor heidari or parvin, or ebrahimi or dehdari or ... have "legioners" with the above description ?
NO !
so whatever they achieved shd be far more valuable than those who DID have players coming from bayern, HSV, Messina, .... .


so, to sum it up, I'll just go with simple "results" as basis for evaluation.
my pick is HESHMAT MOHAJERAANI as the most successful coach in our history.

[perspolees]

contributions, beauty, defense, offense this or that has always been different in the eyes of the beholder...therefor by definition success means results. In that the following coaches have done best in the past 40 years:
therefor coaches that have not won jack are out, tho it is really hard to leave out ostad heshmat but rules are rules! in the world of football success is results.period!

O farrell ( won asian cup)
Soltan ( won asian games)
Branko ( won asian games)

[Hadi]

Branko's performance overall was averrage at best. What did he achieve?
Asian games Championship with our u23. We defended the whole time against Korea and won on PK in semi. In final against Japan, we won on two mistakes by Japanees.
Asian cup 2004 Iran came third a good result
WC qualification 2005. We came second in our group below Japan. had it been like the years before Iran wouldn't have qualified. Blaz team came second and had to go through palyoffs and eventually lost to Ireland.
WC 2006 Disasterous perofrmance by our team. Iran didnt' play well and came fourth in a group of four under Angola.
I am really surprised with this Mordeh Parasti farhang. Whatever we have is bad, When he/she is gone we worship him.
Shah when he was in Iran A dictator, X, Y whatever. When he left many people totally forgot his actions and talk about him as if during his reign Iran was a paradise.
Branko was here. Everybody was thirsty to his blood. Now that he is gone, a Hero.
Daei the same. What is wrong with us. Why these exterme reactions?

wait a second.

Lets get one thing clear here. Statistics don't lie, and as far as the results go, Branko has been the most successful. you call winning the Asian Games with a U-23 side, third place in the Asian Cup and a direct qualification to the world cup a "no success"?

This is not morde parasti. Kavian simply asked us to choose the best ever TM coach, now surely we will have to choose an x-TM coach right?

btw, Branko want just one man. He was a product of Dadkan and the way he ran IFF. When Ali Abadi and his gang took over, of course they were not going to tolerate Dadkan and his coach (Branko) so in Branko's last year in Iran, the atmosphere was againts him. He became too defensive and conservative, and I agree with The-Red, I had the feeling that he cared too much about his own resume.

[Doctor DOOM]

hadi jan, we must go with ONE philosophy ( or criteria, if u like ) .
we either go with "numbers & stats" or with quality.

1- since you want to base it on stats, I think GN's stats are far better than branko's.
didnt lose in asia cup qualifiers. topped the group inqualifiers. in asia cup, itself, won 2 games and topped the group ( as opposed to branko's loss in qualifiers and 2 draws in group stage & coming second).
( or talebi's team got 3 points at WC. branko got 1 point !! )
so why do you choose branko?


2- if we are to consider the quality of the opposition before we look at stats, again branko's opponents ( guam, panama, lybia, azerbaijan, macedonia, .... ) are worth sh*t.
so , again, why do u choose branko?


3- if it's based on asia's third and WCQ's, then MK has done the same things:
came 3rd in asia cup and came second in his WCQ's group ( both with far LESS experienced players and an amateurish team ) ... just like branko.
so why do you choose branko, once again?



I'm just sticking to facts here.
no conjecture or opinion or assumption or .... .

[Ali Chicago]

wait a second.
Lets get one thing clear here. Statistics don't lie, and as far as the results go, Branko has been the most successful. you call winning the Asian Games with a U-23 side, third place in the Asian Cup and a direct qualification to the world cup a "no success"?
.

Dadash read my post. I called coming third in AFC cup a good success. U 23 in Asian games championship we won but our team really didn't play well ( I gave him a mixed-success nevertheles) and WC qualification average since our team came second below Japan and our easy qualification was in big part the result of change in FIFA qualification rules. WC 2006 I call it a failure. That is why I gave him an average from result point of view.

To be honest from there are a lot of other aspect of coaching and I don't want to get into it. One of them is long term development of players for different post. In that department Branko was really really poor. He killed a whole host of generation of footballers with his line up (Mirza, Daie, Golmohammadi, always play). When they are not there today we feel the void. Compare the long term development of Branko with Erikson in England wc2006 squad. Do you remember how he took a 17 year old kid over big name?

I am not a sucker for Aliabadi and company, but look at the preparation for AFC CUP vs. preparation for WC. We entered into WC with basically a friendly against Croatia. Even FIFA ban in part was due to inaction of Dadkan federation as well. FIFA warned Iran several times. Although current administration had its share in it as well.

I totally appreciate your genuine desire for our football to progress and you are right to ask for a forigner coach since they have a better know how than most Iranian counterparts. Red share the same point of view as well. However, I think it is much more complex than this. Bringing a forigen coach when our federation even doesn't have a long term plan, doesn't know how to interview the coach, how to evaluate his work (this is the role of the technical director of the national teams) and lot of other restricitions wont' probably help much. Best ones are taken for the most part, the average ones come to Iran and interview with IFF and realize what a sheer to sheer is and if they have integrity they won't work in such an unprofessional environment. So what remains are charlatans who come to pocket our money and give us BS.


In order to improve I would do the followings:

IFF needs to plan a 5 year and a 2 year plan which will eye toward WC 2010 and 2014
We need good foriegn coaches for our youth teams from u16 to u21. These coaches need to be willing to work under the natiaonal team coach.
Form a technical director committee to oversee all national teams. There must be a variety of skills in this comittee. People with management skills all the way to good technical soccer related knowledge.
Improve IPL organization.

[RaginG Inferno]

Probably Ciro, as the Doc said.

He introduced so many great new names to Team Melli, with Branko of course. The treasure of players in Khuzestan saw National Team action, which was a landmark.