Iran - Korea post-game discussion

[The-Red]

...too late,,,,








again!!!

[Kavian]

Where are those who should really be apologizing from the nation?

Poor Khatibi and GN .... I really feel bad for them. As incompetent as they might be, they were setup ... What a mess!

[mkbf2]

Hi guys,
I think I came up with the something to ease the pain ..
"Our football team is a reflection of what is transpiring in our country. Please adjust your expectations accordingly, and until the root cause is fixed."

One of the best posts I have seen in a looong time. Why expect something from our team when the players dont even get the right kind of support from their own federation?!

[BehzadB]

Quite horrible for me to admit , but I agree with every word Dr. Doom said.

Especially Kazemian for Khatibi was overdue.

On a different note (doesn't really fit here, but don't want to open a new thread on this): just imagine Daei played, wouldn't it all be his fault now? Sounds cheap on first glance, but think about it. Regardless of true reasons, wasn't Daei the scapegoat for everything in recent years?

When it's failure, it's called a scape goat, when it's success it's called a reason. they are very much the same, at least to the fans.

It was Daie then, it is Khatibi today and next time it might (WILL) be Kia.. at least Daie wasn't the scape goat until he passed 32 or 33. Now imagine if Khatibi or Kia played until they were 38? of course they will be the scape goat every time the team fails, until they quit TM. Then some other player will be the scape goat. or may be the coach!

We do the same thing when it comes to Success! For example you say It was Branko (or Daie's presence) that beat a strong Korea team in 2004, I agree to some extend, but someone else can argue that Karimi was just amazing that year and that's why we beat korea that year.. I think both are valid claims.

In my opinion (and as far as how it felt), There was absolutely no difference in how we lost today compared to how we lost in the previous 3 AC cup games...

1996
it was first Daie who kicked the ball out on the first PK and then we missed two more PKs (even though Abedzadeh saved two, we still lost to a KSA team which we had beaten 3-0 earlier in the same Tournament).

2000
It was daie who made a mental error in clearing the ball in our box area and created an easy scoring chance for south Korea at the end of the game to tie the game and send it to over time where they scored the winner. (and of course the whole off the field story!!)

2004
It was Branko who decided not to sub out a tired, pain killer injected Daie even though we were down a man with China fully on the attack and a speedy and in form Borhani was sitting on the bench.. instead he used his last sub at minute 119 of the game to send Mobali in, for karimi (I think ).. just to take a penalty shot... which he missed and then the reliable Gol mamad decides to be funny and gives away another PK and we are done!

2007
It was GN who decided to take Khatibi for 120 minutes over Kazemian and started thinking about Penalty kicks from minute 60 (as indicated by his subs and lack there of)! and when the PKs came, it was the same Khatibi and Kia, our captain and most reliable player, to miss PKs and say good bye to the Cup..

2011,
???????

[Doctor DOOM]

I dont really think kaabi's absence had much to do with the defeat.

In fact if we keep the "formation" aside ( which is debatable and has its pros and cons ) the selected players were the right ones.
- we needed wing play which was provided by madanchi and kia.
- we needed a speedy forward and a tough center forward : khatibi & VH

so GN started well.
and if we had kaabi, I doubt it'd have made any difference.

the problem is the koreans really didnt deserve to win, becoz after the 60th minute, they didnt show much and we could have won the game there & then.
it is true when some say koreans played for the penalties.
in extra time, they were almost nothing!

My bone of contention with GN is not the first 60 minutes of the game.
it is the second 60 minutes which he mismanaged.

I've gone over the subbings "I" thought would have fared better. but in general, I must say GN shd have recognized koreans were slowing down and didnt have much to offer.
AND HE SHD HAVE GONE FOR THE KILL after min 70 or so.
saving a sub for the dying minutes of the game is plainly WASTING TIME & OPPORTUNITIES !

when he shd have shown guts, GN buckled.
I put it on his in-experience mostly.

No matter how I look at it. we really shd have beaten the koreans today.
and I dare say not by a single goal !


====================================

[Hajagha]

I wonder If we were the winner in the penalty shoot out, what would you guys tell about Taleb-lou subbing.

In short, GN did a good job particularly in Korea game, his both first sub's were not tactical but physical. Both Hashemian and Madanchi ran their heart out.

It was a heavy match, and we were the unlucky one.

[faraz]

well, it took awile for the disapointment to set in - i really did have high hopes for this team, and a quarter final exit to SK's B-team is thoroughly unacceptable.

where to begin...

-well, for starters, I do not know why GN likes to make so many big changes one game to the next. this really kills the consistency of our team, and doesn't allow us to get comfortable with any formation - i don't know though, mb it was a tactical move to counter the 4-3-3 - how a 3-5-2 acheives that, i really am no knowledgable enough to comment

-starting nosrati was a mistake in my books. he hadn't played a second, and suddenly he's starting in a 3-man defense in the quarter finals against SK? this is exactly why Nosrati should have replaced Rezaei in the Malaysia match in order to gain match practice and become more comfortable. i'm not saying he played poorly, but he did give away some completely needless freekicks in very dangerous areas.

-even though ma'adanchi was lively, i think zandi deserved the role ahead of him. he's a much better football player, rather than a headless chicken who runs down the wing. i must say though, he's quite fast - if he learns to use this energy more wisely, he could be a great winger for us in the future. for now though, it seems like zandi is comfortable in the winger role, and had a very good game as soon as he entered.

-starting khatibi...well, i just don't know what to say on this one. mb i'm completely lost when it comes to understanding football, but this guy...it pains me when has the ball at his feet. a lil credit to him, the refs were harsh in their first 2 offside calls

-i think the inclusion of kaebi would have really rejuvenated our side, even if he was played as a striker. unfortunately, GN preferred to hold a sub for a goalkeeper change, which I think to a certain degree is ridiculous. instead of finishing the game off (and honestly, we really could have - this korean team was one of the worst i had ever seen with their countless errors in trapping the ball, passing, etc.,), we play right into Korea's hands and aim for a penalty shoot out - something we are terrible at. how does any of this make sense?

-i believe on a soccer pitch, you need to FIND certain players more. you need to get them involved, pass to them often, and make sure they get plenty of touches on the ball. Karimi is one of those players. everytime he had the ball at his feet, SOMETHING would happen. to a certain extent, he does not seem as demanding of the ball as he should be for a player of his calibre, but GN should have told the players to LOOK for Karimi. Koreans are admittedly scared of Karimi, and he always has a mental edge. i don't think he had a bad game at all, and in fact, would have been a hero had nekounam simply side-slotted the ball home from just outside the 18. but the point is, they should have gotten him more involved.

-hosseini is just too good. by far the best iranian player in this tournament, followed by nekounam


final thoughts

-sucks to go home at this stage

-sucks that our strikers didn't score

-sucks that we chose too small a coach for too large a tournament

but life goes on

[Ali Chicago]

Just came back to States and heard the bad news. Man what a drag!!!! Talk about dissapointment. Still haven't seen the game.
Did they at least play well? Crappy? Heard Kia and Khatibi missed the penalty shots!!! I am really disappointed at GN for choosing Khatibi to take peanlty shots. Khatibi's poor performance in TM in big part is due to his low self esteem and low emotional strength. One can watch his and see how he rushes each pass or forces every dribble. Then despite that you let him take penalty shots?!!!!!!

Really poor choice by Coaching staff and GN in particular. God I am so pissed. Why did they allow it get to Penalty shots in the first place? I had higher expectations from GN. He knew how many people are lined up for his head, guess now he will see the consequences.

Altough haven't seen the game, but I assume TM didnt' play well and Leginoners one more time had a mediocer day. Guess that is end of an Era. Era of TM totally dependent on Europe based players. I hope the whole WC and AFC cup experience produces one positive thing : TM shouldn't rely fully on European based players, if they are not performing. Branko and GN both were victims of this mentality.

God, I am pissed. I came to the site and opend it hoping to see Iran beat Korea and this. Wish this was all a nightmare.

[Ali Chicago]

Quite horrible for me to admit , but I agree with every word Dr. Doom said.

Especially Kazemian for Khatibi was overdue.

On a different note (doesn't really fit here, but don't want to open a new thread on this): just imagine Daei played, wouldn't it all be his fault now? Sounds cheap on first glance, but think about it. Regardless of true reasons, wasn't Daei the scapegoat for everything in recent years?

No Worries, We had Khatibi, Enayati getting the blame for everything (filling in the Daei's role which was being blamed for everything).

[Ali Chicago]

Hi guys,
I think I came up with the something to ease the pain ..
"Our football team is a reflection of what is transpiring in our country. Please adjust your expectations accordingly, and until the root cause is fixed."

So True.

[Ali Chicago]

...
Daei just couldn't deliver anything attractive anymore, and that was equaled to not being able to deliver anything useful anymore.
.

Couldn't have said it better in a consice sentence. But you got to realize, masses always prefer the fancy player over an effective player. Every one knows Ronaldinio and worship him, but guys Molooda or Essien or Dennis Bergcamp never reached the same level of fame.

Actually the performance of our strikers in this tourney proved that Branko was right to rely on Daei.

I don't know how you got to this conclusion. I think GN made the same mistake that Branko did, he kept hoping the certian players eventually show up. He hoped Karimi, Kia, Teymoorian, X, Y eventually show themeselve again. Something never happened.

Had he trusted his guts and played Shojai, Sadeghi, Rajabzadeh, Mobali and cut the ineffective legioners, and we still got eliminated, he and Iran would gaind something.
He could have the alibi of I created a new TM.
Iran's next generation TM would have taken form.

And apart from Daei's footballing skills, his leadership was missed greatly.

Daie despite being (probably) the most intelligent and effective player in Iran's footballing history, has become a controversial figure. At least at the moment his presense will bring so many side issues that will nullify its leasdership skills.

[zzgloo]

The main issue was that , GN had a game plan , as if we were playing Brazil !!
The defense was TOO good, and little attention was paid to winning, and scoreing.
This is a sign of an inexperinced coaching...thats all !

[Doctor DOOM]

The main issue was that , GN had a game plan , as if we were playing Brazil !!
The defense was TOO good, and little attention was paid to winning, and scoreing.
This is a sign of an inexperinced coaching...thats all !

excellently put bahram jan.
Absolutely spot on.

[The-Red]

[Paradigm]

I guarantee you guys, the Iran-B lineup that won the West Asian Games just a few weeks before the AC would have beaten South Korea. This whole issue about the European-based players being the preferred ones needs to be re-evaluated. I approve of Nekounam and Zandi but the other ones should not be fixed players anymore.