What kind of mentality for our NEXT COACH ?

[Doctor DOOM]

what distinguished GN from branko, which was his guts and daring to trust in player forms rather than names, let us down in this game !

he reverted to "names-based" selection and strategy. he also suddenly got scared of the koreans ( where are those analysts and their analysis that shd have told him this korea is NOT that strong ???!! ) and changed the 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 !

in other words, he lost his guts when he came to the knock-out stage !
such a tragedy !


and I beleive this is just human nature.
those who gamble or play poker or black jack or ... know what I'm talking about.
so do those who compete in various matters with other individuals, or even those who play vid games as silly as "mine sweeper".
there comes a time when even the most ( not all, though ) aggressive person suddenly changes tact and shifts to caution.

most ppl usually start aggressively and very gung-ho , go at it head-on.
but the turning point is when they reach their primary goal.
for X it could be winning $10,000 .
for Y it could be reaching the score of 2500 points.
or ... .
a loss before such points, usually does not really scare them. that seems like a given amount of points or dollars or ... even before the start.
once they've gone past such a point, they suddenly think they shd proceed more cautiously, lest they lose what they have gained so far !

this is where we see many falter and fall.

so we must see who has what level of primary goal.
for GN, advancing from preliminary round and even group stage were "given". so he took risks and chances with line ups, players' selection, formation, ... etc. maybe the leeway of having an option or chance to redeem possible lost points gave him this daring.
I dont know.
It's just that his primary goal wasnt high enough, for he suddenly became cautious and conservative when we reached the knock-out stage.

this was his undoing.
for a coach who did take risks and tried different strategies and formation ( 4-4-2 is not his preferred one ) and subbing which all paid in good , he changed to a cautious man who second guessed himself, had doubts and tried to be conservative.
and he paid for it.

branko was also the same.
he took his chances at Busan and it paid off.
he also did reasonably well at AC04.
but once we reached the WCQ's which I presume was his primary goal ( to remain in a country which is famous for changing coaches rapidly ), he lost his nerve and became ultra-cautious ! .... progressively !!!

so, I'd say we need a coach with enough guts and daring, whose primary goal is not so low as to merely qualify for the WC.
it shd be someone who wants to make a lot of noise AT THE WC.
being a good poker player helps as well

[Ali Chicago]

so, I'd say we need a coach with enough guts and daring, whose primary goal is not so low as to merely qualify for the WC.
it shd be someone who wants to make a lot of noise AT THE WC.
being a good poker player helps as well

Excellent point and I have nothign to do with your dahan, no worries dadash

For the portion of your post I quoted though, I think media and fans have a huge role. When you get bombarded 24/7 with negativity, high expectations, getting critcized no matter what, even if you are the guttsiest man in the world, you turn to a chicken shit. I start to think the same process happend to Branko as well. The man realized if he looses he will be shredded to pieces even in a friendly, that is how we (media and fans) turned Branko to who he was toward the end. Ok Branko maybe was more receptive to that conservatisisem but you see my point. The same with GN. Point is the impact of mass media and unrealistic fan expectations ( I am not agreeing with that, i am just explaining how the process happens).

[The-Red]

get a 2nd class foriegn coach. some good candidates are someone like Bora for instance. or even the French guy who was coaching Qatar a fwe years back Trossie or whatever his name was... there are a lot of options, but it depends who is after what and which dalal has more influence in the IFF.

[yashar_fasihnia]

forget bora, in my opinion, even hiddink wont work in our country, simply because the media, fans and critiques/mafia will not allow them to work, are not patient enough to see some bitterness at the beginningt to taste the sweetness in the end and most importantly, most of them are not objective enough.

no matter which coach comes to iran, our results wont be much more or much less than this.

[Doctor DOOM]

forget bora, in my opinion, even hiddink wont work in our country, simply because the media, fans and critiques/mafia will not allow them to work, are not patient enough to see some bitterness at the beginning to taste the sweetness in the end and most importantly, most of them are not objective enough.
no matter which coach comes to iran, our results wont be much more or much less than this.

I agree yashar jan.
MOST coaches, no matter how proficient they may be in their job, will not have much chance to succeed, becoz of what u said: media and mafia and illogical fans and IFF/officials' intrusions and interferences and .... etc.

now we can either just give up and say all we can do is at least not waste the money on foreigners and opt for GN and GN-like ppl .

or try for a foreign coach. but who?

we've had great coaches like Ivic and Ciro come and go because they either were ill-treated by media & some certain players and personalities ( ciro ) or were victims of iranian mafia ( Ivic ). or those who were so bloody sissy and a pus*y , like aari haan, who fled as soon as they encounter the FIRST problem !

we also have had ppl who would bend backwards just to remain on the bench and say yes to each and everything dictated to them, like branko.

none of these coaches would HELP further IRAN's goals.

or we can try to minimize the risks and try to find those coaches , while being experienced enough and with enough knowledge ( who may not be class A international ones ) but also :
are adaptive and have a thick skin ,
who can work around most problems but not give in to them,
who can make something out of so much shortcoming and lacks in our football,
who are patient and resilient but dont act like servants of X or Y,
at the same time, shd be principled enough and be a capable MANAGER of people and players
who have a strong personality, even if soft ... but firm
who ....

you all get my drift.
if not, look below

now, do you see why I have the same signature for more than a year ?

[yashar_fasihnia]

I agree yashar jan.
MOST coaches, no matter how proficient they may be in their job, will not have much chance to succeed, becoz of what u said: media and mafia and illogical fans and IFF/officials' intrusions and interferences and .... etc.

now we can either just give up and say all we can do is at least not waste the money on foreigners and opt for GN and GN-like ppl .

or try for a foreign coach. but who?

we've had great coaches like Ivic and Ciro come and go because they either were ill-treated by media & some certain players and personalities ( ciro ) or were victims of iranian mafia ( Ivic ). or those who were so bloody sissy and a pus*y , like aari haan, who fled as soon as they encounter the FIRST problem !

we also have had ppl who would bend backwards just to remain on the bench and say yes to each and everything dictated to them, like branko.

none of these coaches would HELP further IRAN's goals.

or we can try to minimize the risks and try to find those coaches , while being experienced enough and with enough knowledge ( who may not be class A international ones ) but also :
are adaptive and have a thick skin ,
who can work around most problems but not give in to them,
who can make something out of so much shortcoming and lacks in our football,
who are patient and resilient but dont act like servants of X or Y,
at the same time, shd be principled enough and be a capable MANAGER of people and players
who have a strong personality, even if soft ... but firm
who ....

you all get my drift.
if not, look below

now, do you see why I have the same signature for more than a year ?

doctor jan, wat makes u think denizli can produce results? IMMEDIATE RESULTS.
remember, we agreed our media and fans are not patient enough to see some bitter losses first.

wat makes u think denizli wont have a lot of mafia critiques against him?? and they wont eventually wear him down (live ivic) or force him to bend down (like branko as u say) to be able to continue working?
there is no 3rd alternative. His results werent were convincing at club level (which is wat people will first look at if Denizli ever becomes TM coach.) He has and will also develop a lot of enemies because he is khareji and because there are mafia bands in iran. and frankly, i think he is just as much as a ***** as arie haan, to leave the team if things dont go his way. we saw wat he did with pas when pas was in the most heated competition with esteghlal for the trophy and agha raft tu baghale mamanesh, sorry, i dont consider this dedicated and professional. in my opinion, denizli wont be any different from ciro, branko, ariee haan of ivic. and when he fails, he will probably be replaced by an iranian coach like the usual routine goes after "proving" that foreign coaches are not successful in iranian football and then we move back the 1 step we had take forward with denizli (just like branko).

we cant bring about any change or development in our football as long as WE ARE READY FOR IT. our country is not ready for a change, it has not been for a long time, and i doubt it will be ready any time soon. we will be ready when the media becomes objective, when the fans become patient and understand wat are the coaches objectives of trying different teams and players and even losing bitterly against weaker teams by huge margins.
from wat i see, none of this is gonna happen anytime soon.

my real hope is ali daei taking over TM coaching in a few years now, he has a lot of features most of our coaches havent had, experience of highest level, professionalism, education, charisma, attitude, understanding of football. but he too will face a lot of similar problems, keeping in mind the "respect" many of our iranian football "fans" have for him, imagine wat will happen if he becomes the coach. the enemies he has among the critiques, the media, the fans.
so im worried there as well, but i see that as one of my only hopes for seeing any improvement in iranian football.

[Ali Chicago]

I agree with Yashar's assertion for most part, but I am not pessimistic as he is. I think the new geneation of our coaches, from Daie, Azizi, Estili, Afshin Payroovani, Peeyoos, Jalali, ...... will fill this void.

As far as media, although I am one of their most vocal critics, we have to remember it is like that everywhere in the world. All the natioanl coaches or for that matter famous club coaches are under that kind of scruntiny and fair/unfair or pure BS criticisem. So maybe we just need to accept this media thing as part of the reality, not a pleasent one mind you but nevertheles a reality that we need to accept and move on. Media is driven by sensationalisem to sell paper. No one can mandate against that. We just need to understand this accept it thicker our skin and at times, listen to the fair or unfair criticisems and just smile.

[zzgloo]

There are several kinds of coaches...
.................................................. .......................................
1-A coach with big name, but no motivation.......Ary Hann.

2-A coach with lot of experince ,but burned out .......our previuose coach,the boss of Branko.

3-A coach,with lots of abilities,and motivations, but unable or unwilling to coach in Iran.

4-A coach with lots of motivation but limited abilities.........The coach of Sepahan,and Branko.

5-A coach with motivation a ability ,and williong to work in iran, but either too expensive, or not in plans of IFF thrifty mentality.

.................................................. .................................

first, IFF needs to be convinced, that, " HARCHI POOL BEDI,ASH MIKHORI",
and then select a pannel that would study the prospects,regardless of budget,if it is in international norm. and no thrifty ideas, or, we find the dimond in the rough,ideas !!...................
The pannel will look for, Abilities,Motivations, proffesionalties,and experince.
.................only, then, if they come up with 3 or 4 names, then, decied based on thier knowledge of Asia, WC,and Iran,as well as thier own proposals,and thier portfolio,and plan of action for next five years, so IFF could offer a long term contract ,and job security for fundemental planning.

[khabalood]

even hiddink wont work in our country, simply because the media, fans and critiques/mafia will not allow them to work, are not patient enough to see some bitterness at the beginningt to taste the sweetness in the end and most importantly, most of them are not objective enough.

Yashar jaan, Hiddink goes where the money is. If he can work in Russia he can work in Iran. In fact Iran is better for him since the players won't show up to the pitch drunk.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Yashar jaan, Hiddink goes where the money is. If he can work in Russia he can work in Iran. In fact Iran is better for him since the players won't show up to the pitch drunk.

yea, thats true ofcourse, but my point was even if iran and hiddink do reach an agreement, i dont think he will be much more successful than the previous coaches.

[The-Red]

so yashar why is Bora no good again? he seems to be successful for short term goals, and of course forget long term goals in Iran under any coach, but to make sure we qualify to the WC, or win the next AC, or any short term goal, I am sure he can help us out a lot...

[yashar_fasihnia]

im not saying bora milatunovich is not good, im saying he wont be able to help our football just like most other foreign coaches.
the problem is not him, the problem is us.

[The-Red]

im not saying bora milatunovich is not good, im saying he wont be able to help our football just like most other foreign coaches.
the problem is not him, the problem is us.

then if he can't, who has work under similiar conditions in 3rd world countries, no foreign coach can! the problem is untill our domestic coaches learn and gain enough experience enough to qualify for TM job, we have no choice but to trust coaches like Bora for our short term goals.

[yashar_fasihnia]

then if he can't, who has work under similiar conditions in 3rd world countries, no foreign coach can! .

precisely my point.

the problem is untill our domestic coaches learn and gain enough experience enough to qualify for TM job, we have no choice but to trust coaches like Bora for our short term goals

when u say short term goals, it means limited time. and limited time and foreign coaches dont go hand in hand, specially in iran.
maybe someone like denizli or bonacic or inasio who has already lived in iran and is used to iranian football, mentality, media, fans, critiques, band bazi, etc can be of better use than someone like bora who will need to settle down and learn a lot, the most important of which is the media/fans/critiques/mafia bazi. and if he loses one game specially against a weaker opponent or has one bad performance, he will be screwed.

consiering our countries political, economic and social factors, the coaches who will coach iran, whether foreigners or iranians wont make much of a difference. differences will be very minimal, but there wont be any real improvement in our football.
to put in an easy way, in my opinion, u put any of maelli kohan, ghalenoi, jalali, bora, denizli, terim, scolari, hiddink, mourinho, hitzfeld, the differences wont be much, mainly because iranian coaches have some advantages foreign coaches dont and vice versa and these 2 nullify each other when comparing iranian coaches with foreign ones. we might get some better results here and there, but overall, our football wont improve, it will remain at the same level, maybe improve or "deprove" by a small margin, but generally, our football will be the same as we see today. it has been this way for some time, and it will continue to remain this way, until we bring about some major changes, and to bring about major changes, the first step is to prepare ourselves and be ready to accept changes, which isnt very easy.

[Doctor DOOM]

Yashar jan, I think ANYONE accepting the reigns of TM WILL be criticizes and vilified by one sect or another of our media, one sect or another of our fans and football personalities.

After all these years, we shd know by now, that no matter who comes, they will face it from one side or another … simply becoz we are a divided people in the core !
While some will back a vatani coach, other will back a farangi one.
While some will want basic and fundamental work done, others want immediate results.
While some want famous players and star to be the center point of the team, others want otherwise.
While one set of officials will back Mr. X, another set will go all out to bash him.
While some … etc.
You get the drift.

You bring Lippi, he’ll have his own set of backers and antagonists.
He’ll have his own set of media praising him and another set undermining him.
Same thing with fans & officials.

So will Denizli get vilified or antagonized by some?
Hell yes. We are Iranians and we ought to prove this, every time !!!
That is a given.
But my POINT is he is one of those coaches who CAN withstand such diabolical atmosphere and has proven to be adept in compromising and adjusting his attitude and methods according to what little he is given to work with.
And , IMO, he has produced good results. Even if he hasn’t won any trophies, he has had great impact on the teams ( paas & pp ) he held in the way they played football. And given their lacks, to get that kind of quality football out of them is admirable.

He has also the advantage of KNOWING & UNDERSTANDING our football. He knows what kind of ppl we are, What we want, What we’re capable of, …. etc.

I also understand his leaving paas was due to dual policy exercised by the paas management . and if I remember correctly, he was antagonized by the management and his fees which were repeatedly delayed, were denied. While I dont commend his actions of leaving, I still say as per the contract, paas management were bound to satisfy the agreement and they were refusing to do so. that gives a person enough reason to leave.
again, I dont commend it but then again, he isnt Iranian for us to expect undying love or unconditional loyalty from him. just as NONE of the farangi coaches will have. so if we're talking farangi coaches ... we shdnt expect vatani-like love.


I’ve said it many times and I know , just as I explained above, some will not agree. But we shd NOT compare Denizli of PP ( remember all the shortages and lacks in terms of players, strikers, support from fans, ….. ) to the Denizli at TM ( where he has the best of the best we have at his disposal ). There is a world of difference here. Give Shumy a beat up ford and then give him a porche. You WILL get different results.

-------------------

Even if Daei comes in a few years ( hopefully ), you think he wont have his own set of antagonists and enemies in football personalities, media, fans, .... ?
you think he wont get undermined & criticized for every move he'd make?

amoo, we are IRANIANS. we ARE like that !!


============================



we shd also remember the situation.
before the WC, I did say we can get HUGE names to coach us as well, coz we had qualified for the WC and there'd be MANY coaches who would be ready to either reduce their fees or expectations or ... just to be able to coach at the WC.
so BIG NAMES were a possibility.
but we didnt change and we .... rest is history.

NOW? it's a different matter.
now, we are NOT sure of qualifying and that doesnt make coaching IRAN a desirable matter for great coaches ! we are NOT a hot commodity right now !

so what we're left with is coaches with good enough experience and proficiency. but also willing to bear the conditions in Iran. low salaries, low standards, low infrastrctr , ... .
so while luxemburgo or Gunes were possibilities for our WC squad, I doubt they'd even consider us at this moment !

so we are left with guys like denizli, macala ( not a bad option either ), bonacic, ... .
( am not too sure about Inacio as he wasnt here long enough for me to assess him. altho' he did well to get foolad going and get some points near the end ).