What kind of mentality for our NEXT COACH ?

[Ali Chicago]

I think we are making too much of the whole media thing. Part of this is to be a profeesional listen to the criticizems and try to somewhat contain that. Italain coach before WC was under the gun, Erikson in England the same. I play football with Croations and Serbians. You should see them talk about their coaches. I think Corations coaches son was in TM as well and he only played one game but you should see how they talk about him.

No matter who comes, papers have to sell papaers. So they come up with shit. Coach has to have a thick skin. Havin ga good PR person in chrage of the TM and try to control media to some level (wih PR of course no censor) would help.

In some of your posts I read TM coach has to do fundemental work, I am surprised. TM coach has nothing and I mean nothing to do with fundementals. He just needs to have a good eye do a great job at player selection and motivation and be a good game reader to be able to react real-time during the game.

[The-Red]

....

I somewhat disagree yashar jan. many coaches such as Bora or others at his level go to a country, with very silimar situation to ours, work for 2, 3 years, achieve some short term success such as qualification to wc or winning continental championship and leave...Iranian coaches simply don't have even that in them...we don't need a foriegn coach to come in and set up a system in place as we both agreed that it is impracticable in our country, however even 2nd class foriegn coaches have a lot more to offer than GN, Mayeli or similar names...

I agree with Doctor Doom about Denizli and that he can be a much better choice than the iroonis, I would also say the same thing about Luca.

[yashar_fasihnia]

2 things to doctor peyman and armin jan,

1)if denizli can withstand such pressure, he will have to do it how branko did it, like u said, "bend down". otherwise, he will have to leave, like how he did in pas. the guy left pas in the most critical situation because he wasnt paid on time or because of lack of organization, u think with this khar to khar in IFF and sazman tarbiyat badani, it will be better than pas management?
im sorry but i dont see a 3rd option for any coach in iran, they either have to "bend down" or quit. the harder they try to stand on their own, the more the media, the critques and the fans will try to crush him and accuse him of lajbazi, of having no dignity, etc.
this is wat i tried to say many times regarding branko but many dont accept it. branko wasnt lajbaz or dignityless from day 1, but as time passed by, as losses and poor games, poor performances, poor substitions, unpopular performances, unpopular substitutions (call them watever u want) became more, the pressure from the media, critiques and fans became more and for survival, he had to find other modes of survival, modes of survival which are common in iran, not only in football, not only with branko. modes of survival like party bazi, like bending down infront of certain people, like joining hands with certain people, like ignoring certain people. this is wat everyone in iran does to earn his bread. branko was no different, and neither are the other coaches.
denizli too will have to follow the same path, no matter wat he does, 1 man cant stand against a nation. thats the truth.

2)denizli brought no results no matter how well his teams played. remember, many iranian fans, results, critiques are looking for result and will definitely screw denizli if he doesnt bring results again. denizli had 3 years to prove himself with 2 top teams and among the best players. yea, perspolis might have had weak defense but then again, they had good attack line and decent midfield. no team had a complete squad anywayz, maybe saipa's squad was matchable but thats it.
if he doesnt get results with TM and all its stars, 70 million people will go against him!

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on the other hand, why i am so hopeful about daei is because i think he is like a "hybrid" between iranian and foreign coaches. he has the positives of the both. the professionalism and knowledge of the foreign coaches (more than many of the foreign coaches iran has had), and at the same time the love for the country, the understanding of iranian football and iranian mentality, the fans, the critiques, the media.
he also has charisma, leadership and is well respected by most of the younger players, except for maybe some of the younger players of this squad for some right or wrong reasons.

P.S. korea beat japan in penalty kicks with just 10 players from the 56th minute!
damn these koreans, last 3 games, they took the game to penalties!!

[The-Red]

yashar jan forget daie for at least 5 years. this generation of footballers must retire from TM first before Daie is considered, beside he has proven nothing at international stage, just like GN! he can be great someday, but let's not rush him and at least for the wc, as I said a 2nd class foriegn coach should do.

[zzgloo]

I believe,Denizeli, made a big mistake by, going to Perspolise......specialy, as far as his future in Iran is concerned.
In perspolise,he was nutralized, and was intreduced, with the complexity of Iran football mafia, with its core,Perspolise.
Had denizeli, like Luca, chosen a far away team,from the mafia....( perhaps,even Malavan )he would have shown himself better.
How ever, this experince,has thought him something, that any forign coach working in Iran,must know.
In another note, as to be true to the topic of this thread........
I do not know about the future head coach......but, as assistant coach.......we may have two of the bests....
1-afshin Ghotbi.
2-jalal talebi.
One,for technical and asian Experince,the other for WC experince with TM, and understanding football in Iran.

[Doctor DOOM]

each person can have his/her opinion.
I am of the opinion that denizli is nearly perfect for us at this time ( given our constraints, lacks, attitude, ... )

I also think he faced FAR BIGGER problems at PP and he persisted and remianed.
so bringing up the pass thing is not valid anymore as he bore 10 times more pressure at PP and made amends by not leaving ( as some of you keep bringing up ).

third, again, what he did and his impact on his teams has been discussed 10 times already and I dont want to go over them again. ( It's like someone brings a team up from 2 to 8 but is denied any credit coz he didnt get to 10. one might ask WHO has done it and how many ppl ? but then this Q also will be side stepped ! )

but lets say this: the moment you ppl can bring Lippi or Capello or Fergi or Wenger or .... and they WIN something , then I will take ur words.
until the moment these coaches havent come to Iran, I'll stay within REALISTIC expectations . ( I dont see you guys screaming in defense of GN who DID win a trophy. so this "either trophy or no credit" attitude doesnt exactly reek of sensibility & logic . na agha jan. the world is not "black & white". it has a HUGE gray region in between )

btw, "bending down" is NOT the only option for such situations....just becoz branko didnt have the guts or spine to go any other way.
why we shd keep what branko did as a measuring stick for what is right or do-able in Iran, is beyond me.
( going back to "either trophy or no credit" mentality: I just wonder how some of you go back on ur own words and credit branko when he also didnt win AC04, but still you come & defend him as a good coach and ..... etc etc etc. )

bottomline is each person will have their own opinions.
in MY restricted opinion, I dont see much chance of getting a lippi or fergussen for TM.
I also dont see any good future in having a spineless wimp as TM coach.
I dont see many expensive coaches coming either.

I believe even if we get a non-expensive great coach ( which is a very good deal ) he's still going to need some time to get to know us, our football, our attitudes and lacks ... and that, IN MY opinion, is time wasted.
so I say we go with those who already KNOW our football if not pretty well, at least reasonably well to avoid wasting time.

who do we have as options, I ask?
you all can surely name 2-3 each .
we'll short-list it and discuss in detail.

my list :
denizli
bonacic
macala
& If I have to push it , troussier

[yashar_fasihnia]

yashar jan forget daie for at least 5 years. this generation of footballers must retire from TM first before Daie is considered, beside he has proven nothing at international stage, just like GN! he can be great someday, but let's not rush him and at least for the wc, as I said a 2nd class foriegn coach should do.

i agree with all u said.
and maybe with the 2nd rated coach as well, but my point is, he wont do much for us, not him, not anyone else.. just filling those 5 years for us until daei comes.

infact, i think denizli is a good option, but for sure, i for one wont expect our football to improve much under him, not only denizli, any other coach.

[yashar_fasihnia]

each person can have his/her opinion.
I am of the opinion that denizli is nearly perfect for us at this time ( given our constraints, lacks, attitude, ... )

i actually dont mind denizli, read wat i said to armin, but i dont think we will see much development under him either. not only him, anyone else.
when i talk about change, im talking about a major change in our football, something close to a revolution, and i dont think any of these guys can bring it. i have my hopes on daei cos like i said, he is a hybrid of both iranian and foreign coaches and has the abilities to be better than all the iranian and foreign coaches we have had so far.

but until daei comes, we have to continue the same way we are doing so far and have been doing for years.

I also think he faced FAR BIGGER problems at PP and he persisted and remianed.
so bringing up the pass thing is not valid anymore as he bore 10 times more pressure at PP and made amends by not leaving ( as some of you keep bringing up ).

well, keep this in mind, in TM he will face EVEN FAR BIGGER PROBLEMS, 10 times more than wat he faced at PP.

third, again, what he did and his impact on his teams has been discussed 10 times already and I dont want to go over them again. ( It's like someone brings a team up from 2 to 8 but is denied any credit coz he didnt get to 10. one might ask WHO has done it and how many ppl ? but then this Q also will be side stepped ! )

funny enough, branko did the same but wat credit he got? he would have got a 10 only if iran wouldnt lose in any of the friendlies (Against weaker teams), would have played attractive football every game no matter wat form his players were or which players were available to him and he would qualify to second round of the worldcup.

but lets say this: the moment you ppl can bring Lippi or Capello or Fergi or Wenger or .... and they WIN something , then I will take ur words.
until the moment these coaches havent come to Iran, I'll stay within REALISTIC expectations . ( I dont see you guys screaming in defense of GN who DID win a trophy. so this "either trophy or no credit" attitude doesnt exactly reek of sensibility & logic . na agha jan. the world is not "black & white". it has a HUGE gray region in between )

agian doctor jan, last time i remember, members asked u not to think in terms of black and white.
nobody here says lippi or capello will come to iran, forget even about winning something. and the reason I PERSONALLY think ghalenoi wasnt fit enough for this role was he had no accomplishments except 1 IPL with one of the biggest teams of iran and best squads and all the support which esteghlal and perspolis get from the fans, organizations and mafias.
add to that, he hardly has any coaching experience, has no foreign experience and we have more qualified coaches in iran.
so why should i defend his appointment for TM. he should have atleast stayed in esteghlal and played in ACL (if he wouldnt screw up that is) and get some international experience.
yet i supported him when he became our TM coach.

btw, "bending down" is NOT the only option for such situations....just becoz branko didnt have the guts or spine to go any other way.
why we shd keep what branko did as a measuring stick for what is right or do-able in Iran, is beyond me.
( going back to "either trophy or no credit" mentality: I just wonder how some of you go back on ur own words and credit branko when he also didnt win AC04, but still you come & defend him as a good coach and ..... etc etc etc. )

like i said, everything in iran is through bending down otherwise u wont survive. the brave ghalenoi also bends down to some higher authorities. so does ali abadi. and thats why these guys have reached here. then there are others who wont bend down but wont get anywhere because they will be shut down if they try to survive all alone by themselves.
nobody is using branko as a measuring stick. ur hatred towards this guy is so much that u automatically think whenever someone says something, its about branko and for defending branko.
like i said in my earlier post, this doesnt happen only in football but in all fields of football. people before branko did it, people after branko will do it, whoever wants to survive, HAS TO DO IT. THIS IS THE REALITY IN IRAN!
there is no 3rd alternative.
if denizli wants to survive in iran, he will have to bend down as well.

bottomline is each person will have their own opinions.
in MY restricted opinion, I dont see much chance of getting a lippi or fergussen for TM.
I also dont see any good future in having a spineless wimp as TM coach.
I dont see many expensive coaches coming either.

i agree, but i also dont see any good future for denizli or macala or bonacic in iran as TM coach.

I believe even if we get a non-expensive great coach ( which is a very good deal ) he's still going to need some time to get to know us, our football, our attitudes and lacks ... and that, IN MY opinion, is time wasted.
so I say we go with those who already KNOW our football if not pretty well, at least reasonably well to avoid wasting time.

yea, this is a good option, and denizli is a good option, but again i repeat, i wont be expecting much improvement under him either or under bonacic or under macala. maybe some better results here or there, but then again, they will eventually be crushed by fans/media/critiques/mafia because for sure, they are bound to lose in friendlies, they are bound to have bad days and bad games, they are bound to have different opinions from the majority and they are bound to get angry at the media/fans/critiques thereby creating more problems.

who do we have as options, I ask?
you all can surely name 2-3 each .
we'll short-list it and discuss in detail.

my list :
denizli
bonacic
macala
& If I have to push it , troussier

i agree with denizli, but i would definitely rule out bonacic cos he is a very demanding coach and for sure the professional situation in sepahan will not be met in TM and bonacic will not be able to do wat he can do.

macala is like a "slut", keeps rotating between gulf countries, everyone knows him inside out, and he doesnt have very high capabilities. i would rate him at best, something like branko.

my list would be:
denizli
inasio
zolfagharnasab
firooz karimi
jalali

this doctor jan, is my restricted opinion

[Doctor DOOM]

but agha yashar, no-1 is supposed to see "development" under a TM coach.
they need to see correct use of what we have at our disposal and making the BEST possible team possible.

"development" is more the duties of clubs and youth coaches.

obviously we wont see development. but what we may see is better use of players, a more fluid style of football, a more attacking style which suits our football, ... .
for me that is quite satisfactory.

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totally agree with you on Daei.
but it is too early , even for a guy like Daei, to take over TM seniors.

3 years down the line and with reasonable success, he will give the "revolution" we need.

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ONE of PP's main problem was horrible roster and player selection ( done by haan ).
lack of a striker, lack of enough defenders, ... etc.

yes, he will be under high scrutiny at TM. but at least in SOME areas he has the advantage at TM over PP.

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excuse me if I dont credit branko for attempting to change the NATURE of our football from an offensive one to a defensive one.
he never got the defensive nature in place and we were at best, unreliable at defense.
but we lost what we had in our offensive style also and becoz of branko's mis-judgement, we fell between the stools.
we ended up a team that lost its teeth and never got a good shield also !
give credit for this?
noway.

his other contribution is this foolish insistence on having 2 def mids in the team !
baba ... we are not AC Milan or .. to have a pair of fighters in the middle who can add to the offensive game of the team as well in terms of playmaking. why force a square peg into a round hole ?
give credit for this?
uh uh !

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aaaahhaa!
now u r side-stepping the issue:
did GN 'WIN" a trophy?
yes.
then according to some of you, he IS a successful coach and shd be accepted.

no need for explanation of best team , one time, bigegst this or highest that.
"win trophy = great coach"
remember ?


another GREAT COACH you all shd agree is : Jalali or Kazemi.
2 trophies = even GREATER coach
will you agree to have him as TM head coach?
( see me dangling this : TWWWOOOO trophiieesss, TWWWOOOO trophiieesss,..... )

and btw, why did you choose firooz karimi?
I dont recall him "WINNING ANY TROPHIES".
so he's a terrible and UN-successful coach. no? ... NO?

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then , if you dont see an acceptable future under denizli, macala, ... and you also agree with the first things I said about not getting lippi or ... , THEN BE HAPPY WITH GN AND THE LIKE AND STOP CRITICIZING AND BASHING HIM... coz that's all you're left with and all you'll get .

now say "VIVA GN" 3 times.

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one man's slut may be another's "good book".
dont you have friends passing around a good book they've read too?
why such a view for a respected coach?

I have more or less followed him from 96. and he's done much good wherever he's been .
club or nat'l team.
.... far more than we give him credit.

[Martin-Reza]

As a general comment to the first post, I don't think "guts" are a major aspect of a good coach. It sounds well to demand "balls" and "courage", but the main job of a coach is selecting the best available players, bringing them is best possible shape (physically and mentally) and using them in the best possible formation depending on strength and weaknesses of the team and maybe the opposition in order to achieve the best possible results.

That might have sth to do with "daring" sometimes, but mostly it doesn't.

[Doctor DOOM]

if guts and balls is not needed we'd see :

1- the coach bends down to officials who want to force certain players into the team.
2- the coach will not select the players correctly and will not plan the right strategy and ...

example:

a gutsy coach would have gone with a more offensive line up again st korea . and even more offensive formation as korea wasnt all that strong.

a gutsy coach would have tried to finish the job in regular time against korea, rather than doing exactly what the weak opposition wanted : drag it to the penalties.

a gutsy coach would take chance and put in players like shojayi or kaz instead of underperforming karimi or ando or ...

a gutsy coach would stand up to officials and iff and media and fans for taking the above decisions , if for example he picks a lesser known player like rezaei or mirza, over established stars like nakisa or rahbarifard or ansarian.

a gutsy coach would WANT MORE and will not be satisfied with mediocrity and lukewarm results .

a gutsy .... etc.

hope you get my drift Martin jan.
the coach NEEDS to be gutsy and have balls just as much as have intelligence and knowledge.

[Martin-Reza]

I don't think you need any guts to line up the best players in most cases. No guts are needed to line up Kazemian. For me it's not a matter of guts, but primarily a matter of brain.

[Doctor DOOM]

I don't think you need any guts to line up the best players in most cases. No guts are needed to line up Kazemian. For me it's not a matter of guts, but primarily a matter of brain.

LOL. makes perfect sense.


but I'm talking about those other situations where it is , more than being a matter of brains, is a matter of CHOICE.

[zzgloo]

each person can have his/her opinion.
I am of the opinion that denizli is nearly perfect for us at this time ( given our constraints, lacks, attitude, ... )

my list :
denizli
bonacic
macala
& If I have to push it , troussier

How about Afshin Ghotbi ?.........If Branko, an assistant ,can get the Job, why not another assistant,with even better record ?

[Nokhodi]

Quite briefly, despite sounding very crazy; I think we need a coach who will shut up any players and discipline any one who thinks he is bigger than the team.
For the past 2 major tournaments we have read that there are major problems between players in TM. If it truly is like this, then we need someone like Mayeli Kohan or Parvin to smack the player in the mouth like some animal or to be shouted at like a disobedient student.
Of course we would all like top-class coaches to be leading Iran, but that is never going to happen because none of them will truly understand the complicated and ineffective structure of Iranian football or they simply won't tolerate it and leave.