About Ghale-Noui and National Team Coach

[Hajagha]

I try to keep it short and in a bullet format:

- After watching 90 Program, I found it that I was right thinking the guy knows about football, however we can do better than him as his presence, logics and dialogs are not at international level.

- We still need an Iranian coach for our football; then we better look for a better one.

- We shouldn't push our coaches too much and drag them into unfair criticism and accusation as we all know, this is football and no one can guarantee victories.

- By unfair treatment of our coaches, we only end up with crooks since the decent and smart ones will not put them into this situation as they know they will lose at some point and will be treated the same way. Only crooks and showmen will jump into such a scenario as they are fake and don't care about long-term.

- I still hear some names such as Haan and Trousier, I insist again that we need a coach who knows our football, our language and culture, we certainly don’t need crooks such as mentioned names who only come to Iran to rip us off. I don’t claim we don’t need updated knowledge of football, if we need to inject good, updated coaches (who are coming to Iran with their families meaning "long-term"), we better do it in our league where such a knowledge can actually be transferred. Otherwise, a national team coach, get his players 3 days before a game and release them right after the game. Tell me when he can apply such knowledge into the player? About player selection and tactical strategy: Both of them need a coach that knows our players for decent amount of time and also able to transfer his strategy to the player based on our player capacities. To apply both, he needs to know the language, culture and players. Besides, don’t under estimate our coaches in Iran. The difference between Iran and rest of the world is not that much some people claim. We have some good coaches if we don’t push them away with unfair treatment.

That's it, thanks for reading it.

Cheers,

[Adesor Vafaseya]

That's it, thanks for reading it.

thanks for posting it

I am the same oppinion.
I favour at club levels good foreign coaches and for TM level good Iranian coaches for the reasons explained above.

Also as Nasser Hejazi said I think 7 or 8 years ago in an interview: At TM level there is nothing a coach has to teach to the players, since at that level the players are done. There an Iranian coach who understands the mentality of the players best can serve better; Where at club level a good foreign coach can learn the players what is to be done

Nonetheless, this topic is sensitive Hajagha and I expect many replies and disagreements to follow...
at least we are two on this side

[Ali Chicago]

Agreed. His performance in the program was very weak. I expected much more than him. Based on the result of AFC and his performance last night, I think we should be looking for replacement as well.

While I totally agree with what you are saying about good forigen coaches don't come to Iran or IFF is too disorganzied to be able to attract good coaches or Iran. I don't think we need to limit ourselves to Iranian only. Totally agree with most forginers we can get are just players, yet still I think we should keep an open mind and if there is an opportunity for a forgien guy who is geninuly help us take advantage of it. So chances of getting an Iranian is more, but we shouldn't totally write off a non- Iranian.

[zzgloo]

I try to keep it short and in a bullet format:
- After watching 90 Program, I found it that I was right thinking the guy knows about football, however we can do better than him as his presence, logics and dialogs are not at international level.
- We still need an Iranian coach for our football; then we better look for a better one.
- We shouldn't push our coaches too much and drag them into unfair criticism and accusation as we all know, this is football and no one can guarantee victories.
- By unfair treatment of our coaches, we only end up with crooks since the decent and smart ones will not put them into this situation as they know they will lose at some point and will be treated the same way. Only crooks and showmen will jump into such a scenario as they are fake and don't care about long-term.
- I still hear some names such as Haan and Trousier, I insist again that we need a coach who knows our football, our language and culture, we certainly don’t need crooks such as mentioned names who only come to Iran to rip us off. I don’t claim we don’t need updated knowledge of football, if we need to inject good, updated coaches (who are coming to Iran with their families meaning "long-term"), we better do it in our league where such a knowledge can actually be transferred. Otherwise, a national team coach, get his players 3 days before a game and release them right after the game. Tell me when he can apply such knowledge into the player? About player selection and tactical strategy: Both of them need a coach that knows our players for decent amount of time and also able to transfer his strategy to the player based on our player capacities. To apply both, he needs to know the language, culture and players. Besides, don’t under estimate our coaches in Iran. The difference between Iran and rest of the world is not that much some people claim. We have some good coaches if we don’t push them away with unfair treatment.
That's it, thanks for reading it.
Cheers,

Hajagha e aziz.....................you are one of better informed members in this site,and I always enjoy reading your comments.......
But, I fail to see your logic as why we need to have Iranian coach !!!
You say : "" We need a coach who knows our football,our language,and culture ,and we do not need crooks who come to iran to rip us off....etc etc, ""

I also, like you, want to Insist again, although to the opposite end , as we need a forign coach ...

Why ?..............for the same reasons as you said, but other way around.

We do not need a domestic coach, who is in to our culture, as he not only is too
obligated to the system,but also his hireing was not neccessarly based on knowledge of football.

we do not need a domestic coach, as his knowledge of football is at our currant league level.

We do not need a domestic coach,because, as Denizeli said, our league is at a lower level than our TM,hence, we can achive more with TM ,than what our league can.

We do not need a domestic coach, because, in order to advance our league, we do not need to sacrifise TM, and say,only league needs to have forign coach....we also can have forign coach for TM as well.and TM forign coach will not hamper the advancement of our league.

We do not need a domestic coach,because,forign coaches ,if selected wisely, have more to lose than domesic ones.

We do not need a domestic coach, because, 16 out of 32 teams in the WC had forign coaches, even countries with more established football than ours.and even in this asian Cup, The ones who performed the best had forign coaches, and these countries did not seem to think ,language or culture was any problem, nor did they think they were being riped off.

.................................All in all, with the complexity of our country, not only, being a forign coach is not a handicap..., but also it may well be an advantage !!

[TM-Fan]

I see your point about the family issue, but I think it is not a good idea to hire an Iranian coach for TM again. It has not worked for us and not for other asian countries.

In regards to the family issue and long term commitments (which is a good point), how come you advocate a foreign coach for the clubs then? If your reasoning is based on the fact that a national team coach has the players for only a short period and cannot implement his technical ideas, then how come it works fine for other Asian national teams?

About knowing the culture, football and players etc., a good coach can adopt easily. Iraq in the 07 AC, Australia in the 06 WC, and Ivic in the 98 WC are a few examples.

[Doctor DOOM]

good post reza jan.

in a utopia world, we'd be having good foreign coaches in our clubs, who will teach and develop the players properly, systematically and scientifically.
so when they reach the TM, all the TM coach has to bother about is figure our coordination, tactics and formations .

he shdnt be bothered about why X cant shoot straight, or why Y cant pass correctly or why Z cant even trap the ball !
so then we can say a vatani coach could be the better option for TM.

but that is utopia.
and that doesnt exist!

so while we wait for this good day to arrive, we must have good coaches at TM, even if they are farangi, to minimize the shortages in development and training done at the clubs by lower standard of club coaches.

[zzgloo]

I have traveled to Mexico , may be for 100 times !! ,as I have many friends and business there..............My good mexican friends , there, tell me, that they are not happy with thier own culture, as they believe, ( codeing them ),mexicans are very lazy !!..............But I told them, on the contrary,we in USA,think mexicans are hard workers..........................,which also reminded me, of my own culture,in which, people in Iran do not realy want to work,and can not get anything done !!!!...................but then again, when I look at my fellow iranians here in USA, ...they are all very efficient,and work hard, and make good money....
.................So, I am puzzeled !!!! what gives ???
may be, just may be..........we work better, when we are under a better system !!!,and has nothing to do, with our Blood !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kaz]

Here's a novel idea: when we - players/fans, etc - learn what we should expect from a coach and how to treat them, then maybe having a good one will make a difference.

[The-Red]

Here's a novel idea: when we - players/fans, etc - learn what we should expect from a coach and how to treat them, then maybe having a good one will make a difference.

kaz jan, i actually don't think that's a big part of the problem at all...fans will always be fans, no matter where in the world you go, same with players, ya some are more pro than others, but it is a coach's job to know what he is getting into when he takes over a national team, it's a huuuuuuuug responsibility and whether he is up to it or not and should know in case of a failure, what will follow....

Haji jan, ostad, I agree that a coach who knows our culture and our player's mentality will work better but I can't see how that alone should make us look for an Iranian coach when we clearly know our coaches our just tactically inferior to most foriegn coaches...I know most people will want to say that our new generation of coaches are this and that, but we are talking about now and not 20 years from now where one of these new guys can potentially take over....I honestly can't see a better option than Denizli or Luca...I can't see anyone more qualified than these two...but again, under the current system in Iran, there is really no set formula to choose a coach, it's mostly about who you know and how much the middle guy can make under the table, so that particular guy will come in...right now is GN's era, I hope it ends soon before we lose out in WC2010 as well and be back at where we are now.....

[Hajagha]

Thank you guys for your inputs.

To answer to the critics, zzgloo, TM-Fan, Doctor Doom and The Red, as I briefly mentioned in my original post:

I don't see football as a very sophisticated material which is involved with a lot of technical and tactical movements. Football has been in modern world for at least 50 years and widely broadcasted in every corner of the earth. There is not much one can add to it, there is no secrecy into it any more. You can copy a team tactic such as Barca, Man'United, Milan, Arsenal, Bayern,... by only watching a few videos of that particular team.

In details:

You can not do miracle with the keeper duties and abilities.

A 4 defenders line-up and duties are well known. The other formations such as 3 defenders, 2+2, 3+1, are also well described.

Same logic is true with different formation of midfielders and forwards. As much as it seems football is a very complex game, it's not. Or it's not as complex as brain surgery, software engineering, and so on, how come we and any other nation can come up with genius scientist, engineer, mangers, physicians and so one, but lack football knowledge?

Now, one can ask, then, what's the different between "millions-dollars successful coach" such as Lippi and a coach in an amateur team?

The answer is:

1, Management: Big managers in big companies are not necessary the most knowledgeable ones in that fields. The same thing can be applied in Football, how to handle the team, how to transfer your idea into the team, how to remove stress, how to motivate them, how to punish them, how to encourage, respect, replace, bench, ...them. This is the duties of the manager, otherwise for the technical materials, there are always some analysts, assistants with a lot of books, videos, … available to use.

To apply all of these you need some tools:
-Language: You need to talk to your player one on one.
-Culture: You need to know how he thinks.
- Background: You need to know the background of the player.

2, Intelligence: Like any other manger, you need to think ahead of your opponent which needs fast thinking and fast decision making.

3, Bravery: You need to take the risk and being brave to "call for the bank" in some points to win a game.

4, Luck: Like any other gambler, you need luck.

So, based on what I mentioned above, I think the best manger of a national team comes from the same country. That’s why we yet to see a country with foreign coach with big achievement in big tournaments such as World Cup, European Cup and such.

------------------------------

I enjoyed reading Adesor Vafaseya, Ali Chicago and kaz replies as well. I thank them for their support.

Cheers,

[kaz]

kaz jan, i actually don't think that's a big part of the problem at all...fans will always be fans, no matter where in the world you go, same with players, ya some are more pro than others, but it is a coach's job to know what he is getting into when he takes over a national team, it's a huuuuuuuug responsibility and whether he is up to it or not and should know in case of a failure, what will follow....
Haji jan, ostad, I agree that a coach who knows our culture and our player's mentality will work better but I can't see how that alone should make us look for an Iranian coach when we clearly know our coaches our just tactically inferior to most foriegn coaches...I know most people will want to say that our new generation of coaches are this and that, but we are talking about now and not 20 years from now where one of these new guys can potentially take over....I honestly can't see a better option than Denizli or Luca...I can't see anyone more qualified than these two...but again, under the current system in Iran, there is really no set formula to choose a coach, it's mostly about who you know and how much the middle guy can make under the table, so that particular guy will come in...right now is GN's era, I hope it ends soon before we lose out in WC2010 as well and be back at where we are now.....

Funny things happen when I watch football with Iranians. I gave an example before: I was watching the game with a mate and he happens to love Kia, so what does he say when Kia can't stop the ball properly and it goes under his foot? "Khak to sare een morabi ba een taktik".

Really, I don't say that we're all bad fans, but having lived a considerable life amongst Iranians, I know fairness and in-depth knowledge about things aren't our strong points. You meet an Aussie, if he doesn't know something about a certain subject, he doesn't pretend to know and is humble about it. An Iranian? Agha, he might even mention that he has a doctorate in it.

The problem I see is: there are a set of things you can criticise a coach for and there are a set of things you can't. But Iranians are so heated, that if you called GN the devil, just after the AC, they'd believe you and join in.

Or Branko and the WC, you could say anything you want: Branko is X, Branko is Y, he was a crap coach because of it, and you would not meet someone who'll disagree - even when they know better. It's unfortunate.

[zzgloo]

So, Haji jaan,........................You are saying, Managers in Iran are better !!?
Am I understanding you well ?..........................
And your reason,is because,they speak farsi,and know our culture ?
................................
Do n't you think,there is more to management than that ?!!!
I am on a belive,that management,is the last think our culture will learn.

[Ali Chicago]

I see your point about the family issue, but I think it is not a good idea to hire an Iranian coach for TM again. It has not worked for us and not for other asian countries.
In regards to the family issue and long term commitments (which is a good point), how come you advocate a foreign coach for the clubs then? If your reasoning is based on the fact that a national team coach has the players for only a short period and cannot implement his technical ideas, then how come it works fine for other Asian national teams?
About knowing the culture, football and players etc., a good coach can adopt easily. Iraq in the 07 AC, Australia in the 06 WC, and Ivic in the 98 WC are a few examples.

Your question is aimed at haji I assuem, but here is my two cents (taht I assume is Haji's point as well is )Club coaching and TM coaching are two different things.

In Club coaching you have the whole year, pre season training, weeks to correct mistakes, remember how Saipa was in a slump for weeks, but they got time to make up for it (thanks in big part to screw up by Esteghlal but nevertheles you see my point).

TM coaching is totally different since the camps are short (except WC or AFC for example). So as TM coach you need to have really good selection eyes, don't have time to teach complex tactical stuff and need to react very fast (real-time) during the game, because in a tournament you have three games to get thorugh round robin or two games (home and away) for qualification. And the most important piece of puzzle is motivation of players. Club level coachins is totally different.

Hope you see what I am gettting at.

[Ali Chicago]

I have traveled to Mexico , may be for 100 times !! ,as I have many friends and business there..............My good mexican friends , there, tell me, that they are not happy with thier own culture, as they believe, ( codeing them ),mexicans are very lazy !!..............But I told them, on the contrary,we in USA,think mexicans are hard workers..........................,which also reminded me, of my own culture,in which, people in Iran do not realy want to work,and can not get anything done !!!!...................but then again, when I look at my fellow iranians here in USA, ...they are all very efficient,and work hard, and make good money....
.................So, I am puzzeled !!!! what gives ???
may be, just may be..........we work better, when we are under a better system !!!,and has nothing to do, with our Blood !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The key word is the system here. Until there si a good system in place, a good foriegn coach won't come in the first place and if we are totally lucky and he comes, he won't be effectivfe. Having a good forigen coach wont' creat a system (despite what smanhoobi suggests).

I am coming more and more to this belief that Iran's football or for that matter is going through its evolution which for most part isn't as fast as we like. But that is the reality. You can't expect a kid to become 18 from a 4 year old. Kid has to go through 6-8-12,... make mistakes and eventually become a mature adult.
We are living outside Iran and seen a different system and at times I think forget the fact that one can't take leaps over progress and evolution is a slow and non-linear process.

[Ali Chicago]

Interesting take enjoyed reading it. I think the word System comes to mind. In Iran at least when I was in Iran, there wasn't a so called system in place, but the football Mahallat "Goal Kocheeks" was filling the void.

I think progress is happening in our football, compare this last camp that was run by all Iranina personnels compare to past ones. Not ideal but much better. GN in that progream said, he has requested all the so called FIFA day until 2010 be identified and we start negotaiting with other teams who no higher than 20th ranking to have friendlies against them. I know there are tiny steps but the whole trend is progressing. We just want to leap frog from a third world country and have organizations like Holland or Germany which is just impossbile. Those organizations came up along 20-40 years. So in our case will take time too. Now, it happens that we are Iraninas but live in these countries we see these organizations and think to oursleves "why we can't have the same". It will take time. We can take a few short cuts here and there, but in big scheme still we need time and maturity to get there.