Ferdoosi Poor in GN/Zolfaghar Nasab/Haj Rezi Round Table

[yashar_fasihnia]

Agha Yashar,
You mention(quite rightly) that:
"-as if mr. ghalenoi himself didnt engage in destructive criticisms before"
"-as if enayati himseld didnt engage in terror shakhsi of his team mates (jenaze manam bud mitunest be portugal va mexic goal bezane)"
It's true. They did engage in counterproductive behaviour, however, this does not excuse this behavior, or allow others to emulate it. It's similar to the cliche, if your friend jumped off the cliff, would you jump too?

no my friend, im objecting to ghalenoi complaining to something he does himself and he picks enayati (the nagger) of all people as the victim???

i agree and never said ghalenoi or khatibi or enayati are at fault, but im saying im not gonna fall for ghalenoi's tricks and BS excuses. all of a sudden, ghalenoi remembers destructive criticisms?
how come he didnt talk about this earlier, when other coaches were in charge, rather even participate in such actions. now he is complaining? how come none of u guys even bothered mentioning this during the other coaches or players tenures?

about ferdosipour's actions, i consider it a reaction to ghalenois tone of talking, and his ridiculous accusations of TV3 being enemy of football.
the tapes of the games are there, where and when did in during the tournament any commentator of TV3 pick on or make fun of TM players/coaches/staff? but ghalenoi still insists!!!!
ghalenoi is not only BSing, he is also making false accusations which isnt easy to ignore.

like i said, imagine u support TM the whole time, and then when TM fails, i come and blame u and accuse of being the enemy of iranian football in front of 70 million fans. how would u feel?
u wanna temme u will remain calm and smile at me, specially if i ignore ur questions or try to dodge them by giving dodgy answers??

my problem is with ghalenoi BSing us...

i appreciate his courage to come infront of TV to answer the questions (something branko didnt do and i didnt like this action of his) but thats a different matter altogether, that is a problem in the root of our culture, its been there a long time now.

im talking about ghalenois arrogant attitude, his tone and his BS stories. these are 2 different issues and im not gonna fall for the ghalenoi-enayati victim drama.

[kaz]

-as if mr. ghalenoi himself didnt engage in destructive criticisms before,
-as if enayati himseld didnt engage in terror shakhsi of his team mates (jenaze manam bud mitunest be portugal va mexic goal bezane)
-and ferodsipour openly said, we have recorded all the games commentary, except for support, we havent done anything. we can review it ourselves, and ghalenoi nicely skips this part.
ferdosipour is right to not be happy with ghalenois treatment and style of talking. imagine ur national coach comes infront of the whole media and openly states that u are the biggest enemy of iranian football. how would u feel, specially when u are not?
dont u feel like defending urself as well?
on top of that, ferdosipour is reprensetive of the people, he might not represent u but he does represent me and many other people who have questions for mr. ghalenoi and we want answers from him, who should ask him these questions??? when does he have the time or opportunity to answer them??
in other words, ghalenoi wrongly accuses u of something totally absurd and destructive. ghalenoi is as destrcutive as anyone else in iran, so is enayati. so they shouldnt be complaining about others!
shabake 3 has been supportive of TM all along, they criticized after the asian cup, just like they criticized after the worldcup.
ghalenoi claims ferdosipour doesnt want a coach like gahelnoi "shekl begire" as if ferodsipour is ghalenois enemy or has some agenda against ghalenoi.
he did the same against branko, daei, firooz karimi, samad marfavi, parvin, and all other coaches in IPL and TM.
but shabake 3 never did anything but support TM during the worldcup or asian cup, only after when both campaigns failed.
like Dr. Zolfagharnasab said, mardome ma be andaze kafi football fahm hastan va nemitunim sareshuno kolah bezarim.

Then who is safe? Because GN is/was not and won't be the only expert asked about TM and will give his criticisms or not. The point is the HOST and the TV station. These two entities have no place for this kind of non-sense. One doesn't need an outright comment by Adel and co. to say they've been doing terrore shakhsi, all you have to do is listen to them commentate with their insinuative comments. As I said, RIGHT AFTER he says that no one said anything, he cracks a joke about Enayati.

A further attack on character, when GN has said he DIDN'T say "The game against S.Korea was our best ever", Adel doesn't accept his comment or disagree and move on, he continues to pummel into something that has nothing to do with our failures in the AC anyway. It is like me saying: "Yashar jan, you're a poor judge of character, didn't you like Branko?", and as a host .

Stupid comment, wouldn't you say?

And for crying out loud, Enayati made 1 comment, after being pissed off. Okay, he's the devil. Let's move on. It's not like any other person/player has said similar things have they? Daei and co. have done it countless times, why didn't anyone grab their collar about it? Ey baba, aslan why condone it anyway?

And with that last statement about Dr. Z: unfortunately, mardome be andazi kaafi nemifahman chonke NEMIDOONAN chi migzare to een footballe dar be daremoon. Ke yek rooz ye nafar mishe Ali, yeki Omar, va rooze bad, een dota baraks mishe.

[zzgloo]

GhaleNoee, knew he was going to be interogated.......so, he tried to be prepared...........
He had his own paper work, and his own statistic, if you all recall.........as he anticipated all questions, ( he had read them on news papers ! )
part of his preparation was about, how to answer when he gets into corner,by two "KARSHENAS",and the Moderator..........
His prepared course of action was to , " AABO GELALOOD KARDAN "", as to change the subject,and cry wolf.............
His attempt to discredit questions,was to bring up Enayati case,and attcking "SHABAKE 3 "................
Ferdosipoor,fell in to the trap..............

[yashar_fasihnia]

Then who is safe? Because GN is/was not and won't be the only expert asked about TM and will give his criticisms or not. The point is the HOST and the TV station. These two entities have no place for this kind of non-sense. One doesn't need an outright comment by Adel and co. to say they've been doing terrore shakhsi, all you have to do is listen to them commentate with their insinuative comments. As I said, RIGHT AFTER he says that no one said anything, he cracks a joke about Enayati.

yes, u do need prove if u want to make such an accusation. TV3 never once did make any terror shakhsi against TM or make fun of them during the asian cup. ghalenoi is talking rubbish, inspite of all the tapes being available, he is not ready to accept it! how silly is that?
and the joke about enayati, ferodsipour didnt make fun of enayati.
if i remember correctly, ghalenoi saying something like, enayati worked hard for the team, and ran a high number of kilometers to which ferodsipour replied, so if thats the case, then why not bring a track runner meaning "running a high number of kilometers isnt the only meyar or duty of a player"!
i dont see as a terror shakhsi to enayati!

A further attack on character, when GN has said he DIDN'T say "The game against S.Korea was our best ever", Adel doesn't accept his comment or disagree and move on, he continues to pummel into something that has nothing to do with our failures in the AC anyway.

once again, ferodsipour said, its all recorded on tape, everyone saw it and media reported it. its there to be seen agian, yet again, ghalenoi refuses to accept it!

And for crying out loud, Enayati made 1 comment, after being pissed off. Okay, he's the devil. Let's move on. It's not like any other person/player has said similar things have they? Daei and co. have done it countless times, why didn't anyone grab their collar about it? Ey baba, aslan why condone it anyway?

so now that its about enayati, suddenly we should let it go so easily. wat if branko or daei had said such a thing, would u be so equally forgiving? i dont think so.
besides, isnt this a terror shaksi and an attack on ur team mate, that u r saying even my dead body could have scored in those games while u guys didnt!
if anything is terror shaksi, its this, insulting ur own team captain and ur team mate!

And with that last statement about Dr. Z: unfortunately, mardome be andazi kaafi nemifahman chonke NEMIDONAN chi migzare to een footballe dar be daremoon. Ke yek rooz ye nafar mishe Ali, yeki Omar, va rooze bad, een dota baraks mishe.

u do realize that u, me, and many others here from PFDC as well are part of the same mardom u talking about, dont u?
even if mardom nemifahman, there are many who mifahman and are involved in these fiasco, and i dont recall any of them supporting ghalenoi

add to that ghaelnois "reasons" for the substitutions and a lot of other things.

bottom line, any person gets aggigated and retaliates if he is accused of doing something wrong in front of the public, specially if its a wrong accusation, and even more specially if there are the video tapes to prove this accusation is wrong and mr ghalenoi still insisting on his own words and not accepting wat anyone is saying

[Ali Chicago]

Eyval.
The Shah example is well integrated, it's a good example of the culture of criticism in our country.
The nature of criticism in Iran largely centres around 'reductionism', where the causes of complex occurrences are reduced to one simple explanation.
This creates an atmosphere where groups attempt, with all their effort, to eradicate this ostensible cause. First it was Branko, many believed if we eliminated him, success would ensue. Now, it is Ghalenoei.
Before that, it was Dadkan. Now, his replacement has shown to be even worse.
The realistic answer to our criticism is, our entire footballing system needs a revolution. We cannot simply place Capello in charge and expect instant success. It's akin to putting a Ferrari engine into a common Ford, and expecting consistent performance...without an adequate chassis, drivetrain and other technology, the performance of this vehicle will never be complete. Our football is similar in this way, we cannot expect that reforming certain parts of our football will make us world class.
This is the fallacy which accompanies this irresponsibility in criticism surrounding our football. Perhaps when this is realized, we may see some improvement.
Thoughts?

Akh Ghorboone Dahanet. GN will be gone one day sooner or later, but as long as the tools used in Media are the same, next victim will be Capello (which will never come to Iran) or whoever.
The problem is people arent' ready to thi k about this issues (Ferdoosi Poor's behavior) beacuse right now the victim is GN. They dont' realize if this mehtodology is in place, who will be the next victim??????

It is like at teh begining of the revolotion, when they exectuted Shah's generals none of the liberal or leftist realized they have to defend the human rigths (having a public attorney, Jury, witnesses, etc. etc) for Shah's Generals. They probably thought Shah's generals are bad people anyways so doesn't matter if their rights are trampled. What happend next was, the same behavir, no court or summary courts, no defense attorney, judge being the same as prosecutor after a couple of years became the norm the Iran. Do you see the similarity???? We need to change the process, and dont' justify the process based on who is the accuser or accused.

[Ali Chicago]

Agha Yashar,
You mention(quite rightly) that:
"-as if mr. ghalenoi himself didnt engage in destructive criticisms before"
"-as if enayati himseld didnt engage in terror shakhsi of his team mates (jenaze manam bud mitunest be portugal va mexic goal bezane)"
It's true. They did engage in counterproductive behaviour, however, this does not excuse this behavior, or allow others to emulate it. It's similar to the cliche, if your friend jumped off the cliff, would you jump too?

Another great point.

[Ali Chicago]

...
im talking about ghalenois arrogant attitude, his tone and his BS stories. these are 2 different issues and im not gonna fall for the ghalenoi-enayati victim drama.

Yashar, this thread is Ferdoosi Poor's behavior why you keep saying since GN this and that, it si justified for Ferdoosi Poor to do the same?

GN sat there and took a lot of things and didn't say a word. Zolfaghar Nasab basically humilated him several times and GN didnt' say anything back. I wish Ferdoosi Poor had the same level of tolerance and listening. GN based on what Viva postd doesn't have high education or anything, Ferdoosi Poor is a PHD student. Who do you expect more?
BTW your claim about TV during the WC isn't right. Paprs and TV were "yaare Davazdahoom" remember? Even a camp in Switzerland and playing against Village team in Switzerland that cause Jaabarri's injury didn't raise any criticizems in Iran's Papers.

A few months before the WC, critics in papers toned down, almost went quite. Even in PFDC, DD was totally singled out for his criticizems by everyone. I am a member and read everything in PFDC. After the Mexico game it was a different story.

[kaz]

yes, u do need prove if u want to make such an accusation. TV3 never once did make any terror shakhsi against TM or make fun of them during the asian cup. ghalenoi is talking rubbish, inspite of all the tapes being available, he is not ready to accept it! how silly is that?
and the joke about enayati, ferodsipour didnt make fun of enayati.
if i remember correctly, ghalenoi saying something like, enayati worked hard for the team, and ran a high number of kilometers to which ferodsipour replied, so if thats the case, then why not bring a track runner meaning "running a high number of kilometers isnt the only meyar or duty of a player"!

i dont see as a terror shakhsi to enayati!

But it IS, because that isn't what GN was referring to at ALL and ADEL KNEW that. It should be proven, and I think they made an arrangement to go looking into it. But between us, you don't hear them throw 100 tike at the players? This is a slow denigration of a player's character my friend. It doesn't have to be blatant as you seem to suggest.

once again, ferodsipour said, its all recorded on tape, everyone saw it and media reported it. its there to be seen agian, yet again, ghalenoi refuses to accept it!

And yet, Adel here, who doesn't prove it is to be believed? Do you think someone like Adel, who has premeditated his questions is NOT going to prepare that tape? He didn't show anything. By the same standard, that you're holding GN to, Adel should have shown proof too.

so now that its about enayati, suddenly we should let it go so easily. wat if branko or daei had said such a thing, would u be so equally forgiving? i dont think so.
besides, isnt this a terror shaksi and an attack on ur team mate, that u r saying even my dead body could have scored in those games while u guys didnt!
if anything is terror shaksi, its this, insulting ur own team captain and ur team mate!

Yashar jan, aslan, what are you talking about? Are you saying I did say such things about Daei? I didn't. I don't condone it either, whether it is him or Branko. So there, I follow the same rule. The point is YOU shouldn't condone it. It is a precedent that will keep being followed. Today the villain is X, tomorrow it will be Y.

u do realize that u, me, and many others here from PFDC as well are part of the same mardom u talking about, dont u?
even if mardom nemifahman, there are many who mifahman and are involved in these fiasco, and i dont recall any of them supporting ghalenoi
add to that ghaelnois "reasons" for the substitutions and a lot of other things.
bottom line, any person gets aggigated and retaliates if he is accused of doing something wrong in front of the public, specially if its a wrong accusation, and even more specially if there are the video tapes to prove this accusation is wrong and mr ghalenoi still insisting on his own words and not accepting wat anyone is saying

But you know perfectly well I am not referring to you or those 'other' members of PFDC. There is a clear group I am talking about here. It is the same group that follows Ala's lead; the same group that for the sake of 1 player crap on the team; that know little about Iran's history and feed into the bandwagon supporting now, not knowing how destructive it is. I don't think Football+ members are apart of this group .

[kaz]

Yashar, this thread is Ferdoosi Poor's behavior why you keep saying since GN this and that, it si justified for Ferdoosi Poor to do the same?
GN sat there and took a lot of things and didn't say a word. Zolfaghar Nasab basically humilated him several times and GN didnt' say anything back. I wish Ferdoosi Poor had the same level of tolerance and listening. GN based on what Viva postd doesn't have high education or anything, Ferdoosi Poor is a PHD student. Who do you expect more?
BTW your claim about TV during the WC isn't right. Paprs and TV were "yaare Davazdahoom" remember? Even a camp in Switzerland and playing against Village team in Switzerland that cause Jaabarri's injury didn't raise any criticizems in Iran's Papers.
A few months before the WC, critics in papers toned down, almost went quite. Even in PFDC, DD was totally singled out for his criticizems by everyone. I am a member and read everything in PFDC. After the Mexico game it was a different story.

Great point. Let's think about it, if Branko was sitting on the seat would it have still been acceptable? I really can't believe there is debate regarding the behaviour of Ferdosipour. I am not on some crusade to make the guy look bad. Often, he is inquisitive and flirts with a certain line, but in this interview he stepped over that line.

[Doctor DOOM]

I think many of you have mistaken ferdosipoor's sensationalism for "cutting edge" journalism.

even when he was doing this to branko, I used to say he's overdoing it.
I can understand him trying to look very modern, interviewing like some of the western journalists who are frank and cutting and ... .
but he's got the essence of it wrong.

a proper comparison is BBC's "HARD TALK".
this is journalism that is frank and sometimes highly incisive, but at the same time, respectable and well mannered.... and devoid of sensationalism that you'd see in magazines like people or star or ... !

ferdosipoor, apparently, hasnt been able to differentiate between quality and yellow / trashy journalism !

-------------------------

and unlike ali who has nothing against adel, I DO.
I think he's very silly and his insistence on this kind of controversial journalism has led to many unrests in our football.
and if he's actually this well educated as zz says, it is even MORE TRAGIC to see such an educated fellow succumb to such dirty traits & behavior.
I think too much trashy and rubbish reality TV and yellow rags does this to a person!

[TM-Fan]

GN sat there and took a lot of things and didn't say a word.
.

hmm.. let's see. So who said "you are just a mojri, so let the professionals talk". Who said "you don't want a coach like Amir GN shekl begire", engaar ke Amir GN che pokhi hast. Who said to Dr. Zol that "your predictions in the AC was wrong?"

About the expectation thing, I expect my national football team coach to be able to conduct a civilized and logical conversation, while I don't care a lot about a TV reporter.

[zzgloo]

There are realy three points here:

1- Ferdosipoor,is not a very skilled moderator.

2-Ghalenoee,was victemized.

3-Should we,as listeners,let Ghalenooe off the hook, by his two techiques of " hazer javabi, and "playing victom" ?

[Ali Chicago]

hmm.. let's see. So who said "you are just a mojri, so let the professionals talk". Who said "you don't want a coach like Amir GN shekl begire", engaar ke Amir GN che pokhi hast. Who said to Dr. Zol that "your predictions in the AC was wrong?"
About the expectation thing, I expect my national football team coach to be able to conduct a civilized and logical conversation, while I don't care a lot about a TV reporter.

Again and again, you bring the whole GN thing to this. Baba GN is nothing, is Zilch, is the wrost creature in the world, caused Global Warming, all the ills in the world. Happy now. Did we get over that? Please listen now. This thread is about Ferdoosi Poor's behavior. Even if GN was the exhibited the most Outragous behvaiour, Ferdoosi Poor as the host is supposed to keep the discsussion in line. Doesn't let it get out of the freamework. Did he do that? Or he himself get into I said this you said that discussion with GN. Please this wasn't a show about if GN is a good coach or bad coach, so because Adel stood up to GN, Adel must be good.

Ask yourself this question, was there any serious questions answered by GN? You may say GN is evasive and all. Ok fine. But Adel's role as the host is to ask the important questions is a very stright forward yet respective manner. The most important question to me was to say," we know it is the coache's decision to choose X player over Y Player or Z formation, but all the football fans would like to know your resoning for choosing X vs. Y or selction of formation Z vs. W". Don't you think that is the guts of the matter? Adel failed to do this IMHO.

Again this is not to defend GN and his behavior. This is to put in place a better system of criticing in the future.

As for GN's comment, I persoanlly think, his reply that you are the host and shouldn't get involved in technical, tactical aspects was appropriate and somewhat polite. If I was in GN's shoes, I would have added certain level of Matalak as well to Ferdoosi Poor.

Let me put this in a different way maybe you see my point better. Just imgine, if GN in that show, constantly would have told to Adel to do this or that, or why you didn't do this? Or why you said something this way or that way, or looked at certian cameras? Or why you asked this question or not that question? These are the deatils that are within the job definition of the host and not the guest of the show. Do you see the analogy.

[TM-Fan]

Again and again, you bring the whole GN thing to this. Baba GN is nothing, is Zilch, is the wrost creature in the world, caused Global Warming, all the ills in the world. Happy now. Did we get over that? Please listen now. This thread is about Ferdoosi Poor's behavior. Even if GN was the exhibited the most Outragous behvaiour, Ferdoosi Poor as the host is supposed to keep the discsussion in line. Doesn't let it get out of the freamework. Did he do that? Or he himself get into I said this you said that discussion with GN. Please this wasn't a show about if GN is a good coach or bad coach, so because Adel stood up to GN, Adel must be good.
Ask yourself this question, was there any serious questions answered by GN? You may say GN is evasive and all. Ok fine. But Adel's role as the host is to ask the important questions is a very stright forward yet respective manner. The most important question to me was to say," we know it is the coache's decision to choose X player over Y Player or Z formation, but all the football fans would like to know your resoning for choosing X vs. Y or selction of formation Z vs. W". Don't you think that is the guts of the matter? Adel failed to do this IMHO.
Again this is not to defend GN and his behavior. This is to put in place a better system of criticing in the future.
As for GN's comment, I persoanlly think, his reply that you are the host and shouldn't get involved in technical, tactical aspects was appropriate and somewhat polite. If I was in GN's shoes, I would have added certain level of Matalak as well to Ferdoosi Poor.
Let me put this in a different way maybe you see my point better. Just imgine, if GN in that show, constantly would have told to Adel to do this or that, or why you didn't do this? Or why you said something this way or that way, or looked at certian cameras? Or why you asked this question or not that question? These are the deatils that are within the job definition of the host and not the guest of the show. Do you see the analogy.

Relax dadash, I just repied to your own post. If the thread is not about GN, then don't discuss it yourself.

[RaginG Inferno]

hmm.. let's see. So who said "you are just a mojri, so let the professionals talk". Who said "you don't want a coach like Amir GN shekl begire", engaar ke Amir GN che pokhi hast. Who said to Dr. Zol that "your predictions in the AC was wrong?"
About the expectation thing, I expect my national football team coach to be able to conduct a civilized and logical conversation, while I don't care a lot about a TV reporter.

Sorry, but you can't simply include GN's response, without including what was said to him to provoke him. This is often referred to quoting him 'out of context'.