Ferdoosi Poor in GN/Zolfaghar Nasab/Haj Rezi Round Table

[yashar_fasihnia]

No one is saying it is poor GN. GN needs to be questioned Seriously too. Actually Adel failed to ask a few important questions or let GN dodge answwring them.

and if adel insisted on asking the same questions when ghalenoi was beating around teh bush and dodging the questions, people like u would be putting adel even more down in this thread!

All we are saying is how to ask the questions. Know your own level. Befarma, Besheen va Betamargh all mean the same thing. It is how you say it!!! Do you turn the argument into something personal (so the person gets defensive) or trying to question specific behavior and seperate the behavior from the person.

same can be said about ghalenoi, but i dont see u saying this about ghalenoi!
guess who "declared" war first??? it was ghalenoi!
and guess who had to turn defensive?? it was adel ferdosipour!
precisely, my point!

As for TV3 doing the same for all of the coaches is a bit of a stretch to say the least. Remember Yaare Davazdahoom before WC. Rember how that stupid Ahmaid Nezhad went to TM camp. A month to two before teh start of the wc attacks against head coach was reduced substanitally. No one at teh time said why Iranina team went to camp in Switzerland adn played a couple of small towns or villages. Very few attacked Branko for the disappointing loss to QPR (which was rigth btw).
As for your comment certain member were quite then and now are critical. If your were talking about me, I was quite and didn't say a single word against or for Branko. I read the whole thing between DD and the rest (Martin, Sman, toos,etc. etc.) and didn't say a word. After the Mexico game I started to criticize and afer portugal game I was furious. The way our team played with 11 man behind the ball and Hashemian for the most part was playing close to the center circle. That is how back our team was. Branko wasn't man or professional enough to come back and defend himself. Had he come, I would have beleived he should enjoy the same privilages I think the current TM head coach had to enjoy (no personal attacks, criticizem by expert not by the TV host, etc. etc.).

i wasnt talking about u in specific...
as for noone critcized branko?? u must be joking, ever since we qualified for the worldcup until the last day of the worldcup, many criticized him and even asked for his replacement 1 month before the tournament!
both on this site and in the media! denizli as usual making comments during times of crisis, fateh terim rumour coming to iran, from the other side, iranian coaches who were hoping the ivic scenario would be another deja vu!

if u mean TV3, they never said anything against ghalenoi throughout the tournament, only supported TM! yet ghalenoi comes and says in the tournament itself that TV3 is irans biggest football enemy??
I MEAN, HOW MUCH BULLSHIT COULD U BE SPREADING???

You and many guys see this as Adel vs. GN. This isn't the issue. You heard the story of one day an educated man goes to a village and tries to teach the villagers writing. So he write "Snake" and tells the villagers this is the snake (Maar). The akhoond of the village who think his position is in danger, comes and draw a snake instead of writing snake and asks teh villagers; "you tell me which one is snake, what I did or what the new guy wrote?". Of course everyone agrees with the akhoond. Now Adel is the one who draws the snake.

khoobe ke, u urself answered me earlier saying this isnt about ferdosipour when i clearly had mentioned: WAT MATTERS TO ME IS GHALENOIS ARROGANT ATTITUDE AND HIS RESPONSE AND EXCUSES WHICH HE THINKS PEOPLE WILL FALL FOR IT!
now u say i see this as adel vs ferodsipour?? make up ur mind first please!

Clearly, im the one making assumptions...
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...2&postcount=16

ghalenoi is not only BSing, he is also making false accusations which isnt easy to ignore.
like i said, imagine u support TM the whole time, and then when TM fails, i come and blame u and accuse of being the enemy of iranian football in front of 70 million fans. how would u feel?
u wanna temme u will remain calm and smile at me, specially if i ignore ur questions or try to dodge them by giving dodgy answers??
my problem is with ghalenoi BSing us...
i appreciate his courage to come infront of TV to answer the questions (something branko didnt do and i didnt like this action of his) but thats a different matter altogether, that is a problem in the root of our culture, its been there a long time now.
im talking about ghalenois arrogant attitude, his tone and his BS stories. these are 2 different issues and im not gonna fall for the ghalenoi-enayati victim drama.

hehehe,,,and look at the comparison, adel is the akhoond, ghalenoi is the educated man and adel is the one who feels threatened and endangered for his job because he has failed to deliver results right?? good example, but wrong comparison of characters!

[Ali Chicago]

Thanks to everyone who contributed. I guess we had a good exchange. I was hoping to make a point about proper method of criticizing and not make the criticizem to a person but make it to a specific behavior ( Btw I am not making this up from myself, this is the concept that are thaught in USA to managers on how to criticize (actually it is not even called that, it is called giving feed back)).
For the most part I feel my point went mute though. But nevertheles thanks to everyone for his contribution.

[Ali Chicago]

......

Yashar Jaan,

Please read my post earlier to TM-FAN about the same issue. GN is uneducated, laat, everything. Let's open a thread (Ala has already 200 opened but let's make it 201) and bash him for that. If I defeneded his so called arrogance then you have a point. But this thread is about Ferdoosi Poor. How Ferdoosi Poor performed in that show? Was he able to remain objective or he led his personal feelings and ideas overshadown his performance?

Guess we have a different take on this and it is all right. No matter what I post, you keep saying GN did this, GN did that and Adel's reaction was in response to that. For sake of the discussion let say you are rigth and everything Adel did was in response to GN's behavior. Even that point itself (Adel was reacting to GN's behvior), doesn't show Adel lost to control the flow of the show and let GN's behavior determines the flow fo the show.

Anyhow, I hope if something is learned from this program is in the future, if there is an evealuation program broadcasted live on the TV, whoever the host is will be more objective and can stay focused and ask key questions (doesn't fall into the trap of sensationalisem).

[Ali Chicago]

If you like the neutral mojri, you can go watch GN's TV interview a few days before that show in the Varzesho Mardom show (with jahangir ***ari) when GN did his BSing for one hour and half without answering a single question. Why do you think that show was never even talked about and Ferdosipoor's show is all over the internet?
The role of everybody in Ferdosipoor show was to ask GN about his tactics. Ferdosipoor is a sports journalist, and was more familiar with the questions of the people and media. The other two professionals were also there to comment on the more technical issues.
About GN being questioned about his "Iran Korea's best ever match" quote, the advantage of questioning him is that at least the next time GN wants to say a crap and BS like that in front of a camera, he will think twice before opening his mouth.
About Daei and Branko, there is a difference between calling for resignation and asking someone whether he wants to resign or not. Daei at the time he was a TM player was asked many times by different journalists whether and when he was going to quit TM. There is nothing wrong with that. But when you say, goodbye Daei and goodbye Branko, that is different.

Thanks for your response. I didn't see the Jahangheer ***ari Show. But he is one of the most knowledgable sport writers in Iran and I respect him tremendously. So I can't say anything comparing that show with Adel's show. As for your comment about people talking about this show and not that one, (you might be right) but please just consider that maybe ( just maybe) this show was much more sensationalisem rather than hard fact journalisem. You live in US and know how Paris Hilton episodes gets much more attention by media and even ordinary people, comapred to serious issues. Does this mean Paris Hilton is more important?!!!! AGain I am not claiming Adel's show was that, since I didnt' see the other show (if you have a link I love to watch btw), but just would like to suggest you consider it from this angle as well.

Thanks again for a mature and respectfual dialouge.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Yashar Jaan,
Please read my post earlier to TM-FAN about the same issue. GN is uneducated, laat, everything. Let's open a thread (Ala has already 200 opened but let's make it 201) and bash him for that. If I defeneded his so called arrogance then you have a point. But this thread is about Ferdoosi Poor. How Ferdoosi Poor performed in that show. Was he able to remain objective or he led his personal feelings and ideas overshadown his performance.
Guess we have a different take on this and it is all right. No matter what I post, you keep saying GN did this, GN did that and Adel's reaction was in response to that. For sake of the discussion let say you are rigth and everything Adel did was in response to GN's behavior. Even that point itself, doesn't show Adel lost to control the flow of the show and let GN's behavior determines the flow fo the show.
Anyhow, I hope if anything is learned from this program is in the future, if there is an evealuation program broadcasted live on the TV, whoever the host is will be more objective and can stay focused and ask key questions (doesn't fall into the trap of sensationalisem).

ali jaan, thankyou for ur thread.

all im saying is, with ghalenois tone of talking and his accusations during the tournament (which were false), ferdosipour as a representative of TV3 has the right to retaliate and when ghalenoie dodges his questions, ofcourse it will agitate ferodsipour even more.

i personally like wat ferdosipour is doing, not only to ghalenoi even to others.
he said the same thing about daei regarding the daei-sheys rezai headbutting incident. when daei openly denied such an incident even though it was on TV, ferdosipour said it bluntly, aghaei daei sakht eshtebahate khodesho ghabool mikone and i personally appreciate this character of ferdosipour.
he questions them boldly and rok. he is very blunt which is needed for our country where everybody is bullshitting everybody else and 70 milion fans are left confused and betrayed!
u also have guys like khiyabani who sit and laugh with these guys and say ur right ghorban.

with so much of bs spreading in our papers, i really dont see any better way of getting a peek of wats happening behind the curtains from behind my TV.

ali jan, javabe haay, hooyast.
yes, u bring a respectable classy figure to TV3, for example guss hiddink to iran, and he produces the worst football results in iran, but u will not see the same ferdosipour that u saw with ghalenoi.

do u remember the maellikohan ghalenoi incident on navad?
just compare the tone of talking between maelli kohan and ghalenoi, ON PUBLIC TV!

unless we have more of people like ferdosipour, we shall continue to remain in the dark and im sure this isnt wat we want from our football and our country!

[TM-Fan]

ali jaan, thankyou for ur thread.
all im saying is, with ghalenois tone of talking and his accusations during the tournament (which were false), ferdosipour as a representative of TV3 has the right to retaliate and when ghalenoie dodges his questions, ofcourse it will agitate ferodsipour even more.
i personally like wat ferdosipour is doing, not only to ghalenoi even to others.
he said the same thing about daei regarding the daei-sheys rezai headbutting incident. when daei openly denied such an incident even though it was on TV, ferdosipour said it bluntly, aghaei daei sakht eshtebahate khodesho ghabool mikone and i personally appreciate this character of ferdosipour.
he questions them boldly and rok. he is very blunt which is needed for our country where everybody is bullshitting everybody else and 70 milion fans are left confused and betrayed!
u also have guys like khiyabani who sit and laugh with these guys and say ur right ghorban.
with so much of bs spreading in our papers, i really dont see any better way of getting a peek of wats happening behind the curtains from behind my TV.
ali jan, javabe haay, hooyast.
yes, u bring a respectable classy figure to TV3, for example guss hiddink to iran, and he produces the worst football results in iran, but u will not see the same ferdosipour that u saw with ghalenoi.
do u remember the maellikohan ghalenoi incident on navad?
just compare the tone of talking between maelli kohan and ghalenoi, ON PUBLIC TV!
unless we have more of people like ferdosipour, we shall continue to remain in the dark and im sure this isnt wat we want from our football and our country!

damet garm Yashar jan.

[Ali Chicago]

ali jaan, thankyou for ur thread.
all im saying is, with ghalenois tone of talking and his accusations during the tournament (which were false), ferdosipour as a representative of TV3 has the right to retaliate and when ghalenoie dodges his questions, ofcourse it will agitate ferodsipour even more.
i personally like wat ferdosipour is doing, not only to ghalenoi even to others.
he said the same thing about daei regarding the daei-sheys rezai headbutting incident. when daei openly denied such an incident even though it was on TV, ferdosipour said it bluntly, aghaei daei sakht eshtebahate khodesho ghabool mikone and i personally appreciate this character of ferdosipour.
he questions them boldly and rok. he is very blunt which is needed for our country where everybody is bullshitting everybody else and 70 milion fans are left confused and betrayed!
u also have guys like khiyabani who sit and laugh with these guys and say ur right ghorban.
with so much of bs spreading in our papers, i really dont see any better way of getting a peek of wats happening behind the curtains from behind my TV.
ali jan, javabe haay, hooyast.
yes, u bring a respectable classy figure to TV3, for example guss hiddink to iran, and he produces the worst football results in iran, but u will not see the same ferdosipour that u saw with ghalenoi.
do u remember the maellikohan ghalenoi incident on navad?
just compare the tone of talking between maelli kohan and ghalenoi, ON PUBLIC TV!
unless we have more of people like ferdosipour, we shall continue to remain in the dark and im sure this isnt wat we want from our football and our country!

Agha Yashar,

Your point about his frank and candid journalisem/meida work is totally right. You see every human has a mixed bag of good and weak points. So Adel, I am sure has a lot of good traits (which you listed one). Man has risen to the platoo of Sport media in Iran for a reason I am sure. I totally agree with that side of his work. My criticizem wasn't to make an evil out of Adel and make another Haydari Namati war over him. If I made a criticizem it is because of higher expectation I have from Adel. For the very point you mentioned (his farily candid approach compared to all the BS in our media).

Again, If there was a criticizem to him was in order to improve his work not to undermine his good points. Why I don't have higer expectations from GN? Because I know his level (which on this say another controversial thing, I think GN is a fast learner and is learning fast, compared to that Navad show and his thing with Mayli Kohan he has improved a lot I think) and GN's level is pretty much what we saw. Again thanks for your contirbution.

[Doctor DOOM]

TM-fan jan.
u brought up a good point on comparison of 2 shows where one is talked about and the other, not.

well, the truth is controversy and basically a good dirty fight "sells" these days ! and that is a shame.
the moral of the society is totally changed and in recent years, the more a subject creates controversy the more famous and popular it will be ... totally irrespective of its true principle, use, ... !!!

just becoz in the west such underhanded, ill mannered, dirty media is popualr ( a clear example is that show they have in US with that geraldo or some other name fellow, creating fights and .. between ppl ). a total sh*tty "fear factor" or other trashy reality shows where ppl cut into each other, bit*ch and back-stab, get more bums on the seat than a "surviver-man" or an educational program in discovery! we know that.

yes, unfortunately, a serious, clean discussion ( even when incisive and probing ... but within limits of decency ) does not get much attention or popularity. but that does not make this any less valuable for MIND or that sh*t , more useful for it. does it?

so ferdosipoor is trying to emulate or imitate the trashy, crap we see in the west, just to be controversial & popular. that does not make him a "GOOD" journalist.
to me, ferdosipoor represent those low, trashy reality shows where kids and teenagers falsely make him a hero or credible journalist or ... .

[Ali Chicago]

Missed you Agha Payman. Where were you these days?

[kaz]

I'm sorry, but I can't believe some of you are still arguing that Adel's role was not host-like or an intermediary. If it wasn't, what was it? Every inquisitive show has a host, regardless of how unbiased or biased they are.

We had Dr. Zolfagharnasab and Mr. Haj-Rezaei, along with Ardeshir Laroudi and many other newspaper journalists asking questions. If Adel was also another one of these questioners, where was the host? Where was the guy in charge of the show making it run smoothly? It's simple, it was Adel and Adel crossed over a line. It matters not if GN was the devil or he was a murderer, Adel's role is the same. He has to make the proceedings fruitful. Just like a Judge in a court room must at least give the visage of a fair duel, so does the host. Instead we had a gang-up. And what is worse, people seem to say that GN was insinuating with his words and Adel was frank with his questions.

I'll have to refer to Ali jan's example with the Befarma, beshin and betarmak bit. Adel wasn't innocent at all asking that question. It seemed more like an order. When GN replied Metsu and others didn't, he was still pestered on.

If he wants to stick to his guns, get GN to admit something, there was a better way. To verbally attack your guest on the show is shameless. And I read that in the stage where we are, such things are necessary. Just as, once again Ali jan had said, we hung all the Shah's officials, because at the time we thought we 'needed' it. The process is the most important aspect of this whole thing. Unless there is due process, there is nothing.

To add: it's convenient to say GN who attacked TV3 first, deserved Adel's response. What if you opine that Adel and his shows were undermining GN first? Then who replied? You make it seem like the most unbelievable thing in the world that TV3 or newspapers would purposely undermine figures. Does anyone remember Daei? Remember how he was saying the same things about the media like GN? Saying that because he wasn't paying newspaper people they were attacking him? Come on, there's not even a question about it. Our media is crap, and to hear someone question it is hardly a talking point. I'm acquainted with many of the media personnel through my dad and some of them are shocking people. They turn on a dime. I can't believe we're crying Judas over this one.

[Ali Chicago]

The process is the most important aspect of this whole thing. Unless there is due process, there is nothing.
.

As I said earlier I don't want to belabour the whole discussion again. But reading Kaz's post, I couldn't help it. This one sentence needs to be written in gold all over Iran, if Iran one day needs to make real progress.

I am so proud of seeing the next generation of Iranians (guys like Kaz or Yashar and a few others in PFDC) young men/women in their late teens or early twenties are so wise. I am so proud of you guys. Hopefully your generation do better than mine.

[zzgloo]

Dear Kaz,............Very strong argument you are makeing, which is hard to understimate...............
It may be true,adel steped out of line,But,I like to add, We should not just look at it from civilized western view......one,should consider the atmospher in Iran...............What happened to TM in Iran, has been ,and will be a hot argumentative topic in whole Iran..................and iranian fan,are pretty strong in thier opinions,and expectations...................a civilized exchange of ideas,and due process, is not much thier number one concern.

[RaginG Inferno]

ghalenoi first said in malaysia itself that TV 3 is irans footballs biggest enemy.
how come u dont see this as the first action???
u dont expect TV3 and ferodispour to be defensive about this accusation?
besides, ghalenoi had earlier made some negative comments about navad program and ferdosipour.
so does ghalenoi as the coach of the national team and reprsentative of 70 million iranians!

Ghalenoi absolutely has the right to express his opinion that TV3 is Iran's greatest enemy of football. This is his personal opinion(whether or not his opinion is valid, or supported by facts is a separate discussion).

However, conversely, Adel Ferdowsipour, as a host of a discussion, has no professional role to ask the head coach of a national team to retire. He has no right to declare, in an insulting manner, 'Goodbye Ali Daei, Goodbye Branko
. He has no right to insult Reza Enayati. As a host, he is crossing the line.

[RaginG Inferno]

Dear Kaz,............Very strong argument you are makeing, which is hard to understimate...............
It may be true,adel steped out of line,But,I like to add, We should not just look at it from civilized western view......one,should consider the atmospher in Iran...............What happened to TM in Iran, has been ,and will be a hot argumentative topic in whole Iran..................and iranian fan,are pretty strong in thier opinions,and expectations...................a civilized exchange of ideas,and due process, is not much thier number one concern.

If a civilized exchange of thoughts and perspectives is not their concern, I suggest they turn off the T.V.

[Doctor DOOM]

Missed you Agha Payman. Where were you these days?

oh, I've been on a sabatical ( gone to L.A. ).
nothing much.