Ferdoosi Poor in GN/Zolfaghar Nasab/Haj Rezi Round Table

[Ali Chicago]

I don't knwo if you guys see this show called "Jamme Chahardahoom" in which GN, Zolfaghar Nasab, Haj Rezai discussed Iran's performance in AFC cup and Ferdoosipoor was supposed to be host and supposedly neutral. If you haven't, please do,

Here is the link.
http://www.iranproleague.net/video/90.cfm

It was really interesting to watch Ferdoosi Poor. I have no enemity against the guy, but he was supposed to be the host and remain neutral in order to provide a good atmosphere (without conforntation and tension), in other words facilitate dialogue. For those who live in US, watch Charlie Rose on your local PBS stations. Charlie Rose interviews leftist, rightist, Liberal, Conservatists, movie actors, poets. I am sure he is pro or against some of them host, but he never attacks them so openly during his show.

Moral of the story is, in our society we don't know how to criticize. We love to destory, without realizign destroying everything doesn't mean the next thing that replaces it will be better. As soon as that next system comes to place, we have totally unrealistic expecations again and want to destory that as well. End Result? We are against things mostly, rather than for something.

A big part of this blame goes back to our governments that with their dicatorship style of government, didn't allow us to learn how to dialogue and critic, but we as people need to be aware of this, discuss it and finding solutions how to deal with this. This reminds me of a Cartoon personality back to the days I was a kid in Iran ("he was against everything").

I have no personal agenda against Ferdoosi Poor and respect the man. In a way Ferdoosi Poor himself is a victim as well. But it was amazing to watch, when a TV host, tells the TM head coach to resign. he doesn't realize this is a decision for IFF and its committes or the next IFF head who will be elected. Why many Iranians like to be expert in everything? No one tells Mr. Ferdoosi Poor how to do his job, why does he think or allows himself to tell so decidedly what GN must do next? I hope you realize I am not doing this to defend GN. I think GN should resign as well. It is not the person here, it is the behavior (in which a non expert allows himself/herself on National TV) to demand something that he/she isn't totally qualified about?

I like to see what you guys think?

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I watched it and agree with you. Journalists, hosts must remain neutral when reporting or performing a show. Surely, Ferdowsipoor jumped many times outside the scope of his work in my oppinion.

In fact I liked the scene, where GN says to Ferdowsipoor,
"You do your hosting let the experts ask the technical questions". Sounds harsh but Ferdowsipoor was equally harsh to him!

Overall, I agree with you, we are a first class bashers society!

[xoraster]

I don't knwo if you guys see this show called "Jamme Chahardahoom" in which GN, Zolfaghar Nasab, Haj Rezai discussed Iran's performance in AFC cup and Ferdoosipoor was supposed to be host and supposedly neutral. If you haven't, please do,
Here is the link.
http://www.iranproleague.net/video/90.cfm
It was really interesting to watch Ferdoosi Poor. I have no enemity against the guy, but he was supposed to be the host and remain neutral in order to provide a good atmosphere (without conforntation and tension), in other words facilitate dialogue. For those who live in US, watch Charlie Rose on your local PBS stations. Charlie Rose interviews leftist, rightist, Liberal, Conservatists, movie actors, poets. I am sure he is pro or against some of them host, but he never attacks them so openly during his show.
Moral of the story is, in our society we don't know how to criticize. We love to destory, without realizign destroying everything doesn't mean the next thing that replaces it will be better. As soon as that next system comes to place, we have totally unrealistic expecations again and want to destory that as well. End Result? We are against things mostly, rather than for something.
A big part of this blame goes back to our governments that with their dicatorship style of government, didn't allow us to learn how to dialogue and critic, but we as people need to be aware of this, discuss it and finding solutions how to deal with this. This reminds me of a Cartoon personality back to the days I was a kid in Iran ("he was against everything").
I have no personal agenda against Ferdoosi Poor and respect the man. In a way Ferdoosi Poor himself is a victim as well. But it was amazing to watch, when a TV host, tells the TM head coach to resign. he doesn't realize this is a decision for IFF and its committes or the next IFF head who will be elected. Why many Iranians like to be expert in everything? No one tells Mr. Ferdoosi Poor how to do his job, why does he think or allows himself to tell so decidedly what GN must do next? I hope you realize I am not doing this to defend GN. I think GN should resign as well. It is not the person here, it is the behavior (in which a non expert allows himself/herself on National TV) to demand something that he/she isn't totally qualified about?
I like to see what you guys think?

First of all, sir, were you not a strong supporter of GN during this past year? In that case, i would say that you are biased against Ferdosipour and therefore your points are not that valid either.

Ferdisipour ( your name playing is not funny and goes against what you say about our culture) did not tell GN to resign outright. He said that since you, after the Korea game took resposibility ( something that he has back tracked on since), should you not resign since you have failed with your objctives?

Appointing GN was a mistake tou start with and the fact that there are so many frictions in IFF, I will tell you that Ferdosipour spoke on behalf of millions of Iranian football fans. IF we had a propper IFF who would take care of it, we would not having this conversation right now.
Also, the reason why Ferdosipour grew ever more frusrated is because GN was beeing arrogant, ignorant, treating us fans like idiots. Giving us hollow excuses that has, since been disected properly by knowledgeable and unbiased fans.
As far as I, and many many other Iranians are concerned, Ferdosipour is a hero. But the again, I can see why you have a beef with him, considering your extreme biased towards that amatuer coach with questionable personality.

[TM-Fan]

The TV show was not a court and Ferdosipoor was not the judge so that we expect him to be neutral. It was not also a debate between two different thoughts like socialism and capitalism.

It was a TV show to invite a football coach whose team has just underachieved in a major tournament and I believe the reporter's duty was to ask all the questions that the fans have had during the tournament and also make sure that the coach answers them and not let him go to "jaadde khaaki". Ferdosipoor did relatively a good job. He sometimes insisted on his questions a bit too much, but most of it was after GN attacked him by saying "you are just a mojri, and let the professionals talk about technical issues".

[BehzadB]

Moral of the story is, in our society we don't know how to criticize.

That's an understatement..

[Ali Chicago]

First of all, sir, were you not a strong supporter of GN during this past year? In that case, i would say that you are biased against Ferdosipour and therefore your points are not that valid either.
Ferdisipour ( your name playing is not funny and goes against what you say about our culture) did not tell GN to resign outright. He said that since you, after the Korea game took resposibility ( something that he has back tracked on since), should you not resign since you have failed with your objctives?
Appointing GN was a mistake tou start with and the fact that there are so many frictions in IFF, I will tell you that Ferdosipour spoke on behalf of millions of Iranian football fans. IF we had a propper IFF who would take care of it, we would not having this conversation right now.
Also, the reason why Ferdosipour grew ever more frusrated is because GN was beeing arrogant, ignorant, treating us fans like idiots. Giving us hollow excuses that has, since been disected properly by knowledgeable and unbiased fans.
As far as I, and many many other Iranians are concerned, Ferdosipour is a hero. But the again, I can see why you have a beef with him, considering your extreme biased towards that amatuer coach with questionable personality.

I think you missed the whole point. This wasn't a post about pro Anti GN. For your point about I being an GN supporter, all I asked was to give him time. I do the same if Ali Daie, X or Y become the coach. Many of you, yourself included claimed to have a crystal ball and knew it all. I disagree. The whole attitude most of us toward coaches in National team is wrong. The same way that Branko got blamed for everything, continues to blame the GN for everything. Different guys and different circumstances but same mentality.

Back to the topic, I ask a simple question and the question is in your opinion does the hoest and remember the host not a critic in a show can be biased and intervene for or against one of the debate.

I really appreciate if you focus on the post of the thread.

[Ali Chicago]

The TV show was not a court and Ferdosipoor was not the judge so that we expect him to be neutral. It was not also a debate between two different thoughts like socialism and capitalism.
It was a TV show to invite a football coach whose team has just underachieved in a major tournament and I believe the reporter's duty was to ask all the questions that the fans have had during the tournament and also make sure that the coach answers them and not let him go to "jaadde khaaki". Ferdosipoor did relatively a good job. He sometimes insisted on his questions a bit too much, but most of it was after GN attacked him by saying "you are just a mojri, and let the professionals talk about technical issues".

Thanks for your input.

[yashar_fasihnia]

when ghalenoi openly claims SHABAKE 3 as an enemy of TM, ferdosipour has the right to be harsh on ghalenoi as well, thats if he was harsh in the first place.

and ferodsipour is right, ghalenoiis just giving shoar, "im responsible for the loss". then how come u dont accept or admit u made any mistakes??
its like saying sorry but not meaning it.

[zzgloo]

I think you missed the whole point. This wasn't a post about pro Anti GN. For your point about I being an GN supporter, all I asked was to give him time. I do the same if Ali Daie, X or Y become the coach. Many of you, yourself included claimed to have a crystal ball and knew it all. I disagree. The whole attitude most of us toward coaches in National team is wrong. The same way that Branko got blamed for everything, continues to blame the GN for everything. Different guys and different circumstances but same mentality.
Back to the topic, I ask a simple question and the question is in your opinion does the hoest and remember the host not a critic in a show can be biased and intervene for or against one of the debate.
I really appreciate if you focus on the post of the thread.

Ali jaan, you know, I am normaly one of your supporters.....but,it amazes me, how two,people can see the same thing,and come up with different and opposing views....................
I must say,I agree with xoraster.....and I should even add more to his point of view.........................
Please,do read on, and see what I have to say.............
To begin with, although,I understand your point, I must say, you pick a wrong guy to make your point,which otherwise is valid.
I like to start,be saying who Ferdosipoor is, and then, go to the " ASLE MATLAB ".............
Ferdosipoor, is very differenet than all other Moderators, and to this day,no one is sure, if he is ABIETE, or GHERMEZETE..........as he always say the intelegent thing about both teams, and always, speaks about what majority of fans like to know..............
ferdosipoor, Has master degree in Quantom machanic, and is a PHD student at Sharif University.............Although, it is a policy of SIMA to hire young educated individuals with good family background, yet....ferdosipoor, is the best of the bests............aside from this interview,which I get to it later, he always has been very intelectual, with a good command of high class farsi language.
.....................................
About this Interview, ...I must say, one of us,sees the " MOO ", and the other sees the " PICHESHE MOO "...............I realy do not claim to be either at this time.
GN, who has been under big time criticism, by all the country, ( NOT FERDOSIPOOR )comes to this interview, ( Supposedly prepared ! ),to answer,the critics.................The Zolfagharnasab, and his frind, are coworkers,and elders,and very much tried to speak conservatively........but, when , GHALENOEE, used the Ahmadinejad, technique, and ,by " HAZER JAVABI " brushed everything away, it was ferdosipoor's job, not to let him off hook !!!!! ( Please read this previouse sentence one more time ) !!
Ghalenooee, denied everything, when they said " NAREH " he said, " BEDOOSH ", when they said, karimi should have been freed, he said, he should be able to defend and attack.............when they said, Kia,was waisted , he said, Kia played great at the right back....when they said,your languge is not good for a TM head coach ( refering to denial ), he said I am polite. when they said why we lost all first halfs, he said, we won the secound halfs which is a coahces 's half ...when they said, why did we lose/, he said I take the resposibility,...when they asked what does responsibility takeing means, he said, It is up to a coach !......
It was, GHALE NOEE, who insulted ferdosipoor, by calling to be quaite,because he was not karshenas.........it was ghalenoee who insulted ferdosipoor, by ( useing amadinejad's technique )....changeing issues all the time,and never admited to anything, ( although he has said he takes resposibility ) and changeing subjetcs, by attacking ferdosipoor, for calling enayati ineffiecient......changeing the subject ,ahmadinejad style ,...
................the GN, is just a con-artist, and he is smart ( I give him that).......................
But, Ali Jaan, you answer me..............Who is going to ask the questions,that fans like me want to ask ? fans who like to kick his Bott ?...............
The answer is ::, ferdosipoor ....it is his job, not to be manipulated,by a hazer javab Hezbulahi like GN .
I was not fool,by his answers,nor was the other gusses and ferdosipoor........................GN,technique of playing victim ,is an old street iranian style.....it was not a style of PHD Quantom mechanique student................................as ferdosippor,may have bite the trap alittle, but I wouldn't have.

[Ali Chicago]

Bahram and Yashar Jaan,
Thanks for your input. I request everyone not see this as Pro GN and Anti GN thing. The issue is something else. It is about how to criticize actions and not the person.

During the reveloustion people said "Marg Bar Shah", it was as if it was a personal matter against the person. Not against his policies. After a while, he was gone and same policies continued more or less in a different way.

Now with GN certain behviors and policies needed to be questioned, not a big part of the discussion being spent on whether GN allegedly said this was the greatest game of Iran vs. Korea (according to Ferdoosi Poor) or GN's version which was it was a good game.

Bahram Jaan,

I have nothing aginst Ferdoosipoor and even if I criticize him for this one time, it doesn't make him as abad guy or I should be against him from this point on. I think we should crticize the action not the man. The whole gist of the issue is this. Ferdoosi Poor as a host needs to make sure tough questions are being asked, but doesn't need to be confrontational. Creation of a the confrontational atmosphere will derail the show. In a way it did. How much time was spent about the so called quote by GN whether this game was the greatest game of history!!! GN denied he said that, but let's assume he did. Is that the main issue? What GN said or didn't say? Or asking a more important question that never was asked by any other three (Ferdoosi, Zolfaghar Nasab and Haaj Rezai). The main question that was never asked was this. While it is true that the head coach has the right to set his team the way he want, but we want to know based on what factors you came to these decisions. Basically GN's and his staff's thought processing. No one asked the right question in my view (unfortunately).

Instead of a mature conversation it turned to kid's fight between GN and Ferdoosi Poor.


Yashar Jaan,

You are totally right when say someone has to ask the hard questions. But Befarma besheen and Betamarg both mean teh same thing, One can ask the questions without being hostile. As soon as one side fo the discussion gets hostile, the whole discussion becomes futile. For the records, I am not saying everything Ferdoosi Poor said was wrong. Many of the things he said were right, but host's role is different. There were two critics there, if Ferdoosi Poor thought those two guys were not serious enough, he shouldn't have brought them, or even still they were tough enough, he could have posed leading questions and make sure discussion goes where it needs to go.

Once again I have nothing against Ferdoosi Poor and I hope he learns from this experience and next time he hosts a show, he realizes he needs to remain neutral and try to faciliate the discussion and make sure the discussions stays on topic rather then he himself create more side issues.

Bottom line is I wish we learn how to criticize without getting too confrontational. This is where we move toward dialgouge and not conforntation. This is how gradually evolution will occur.

[zzgloo]

Ali jaan, ............thanks for makeing time and pay attention to my point of view....................believe me, I did the same to your post.
as I said, in my previouse post,your point is valid.................and charactor essasination is of a low class, and specialy a moderator should never,ever use that kind of method....................
I understand, that you said,your point,is different............
But, so is mine ( and yashar,and xoraster )..................to understand to what I say, you need to remmember,the Ahmadinejad's interviews........which, with very deceptive,counterattack,counterblameing ,subject changing techniques, distracts, listeners, and finds himself an avenue,to deflect the criticisems...........................
In ahmadinejad interviews,and interviewers, one can see, that , a person such as " TED COPPLE "of ABC, would not have fallen victom to his trap.........
But, ferdosipoor, because of his youth did....................and the whole issue of under-qualification of a coach,and the whole criticism of loss of the best team in Asia.............was changed to ' Bi adabi,...or....Ba adabi '..........................
.......................
you may say, that is not the issue................and I say, Oh , yes, it was !!

[kaz]

when ghalenoi openly claims SHABAKE 3 as an enemy of TM, ferdosipour has the right to be harsh on ghalenoi as well, thats if he was harsh in the first place.
and ferodsipour is right, ghalenoiis just giving shoar, "im responsible for the loss". then how come u dont accept or admit u made any mistakes??
its like saying sorry but not meaning it.

It's not like the first time people have blamed the media for being a propaganda machine. Parvin did it, even Daei had a big thing with Adel.

What I find funny is that after Adel said we were not doing 'terror shakhsi' he makes a joke about Enayati needing to be in the athletics squad.

By the way, Ali jan. I fully agree with what you're saying.

In everything, there has to be a process. If the process is correct, the outcome will be consistent, and better if we prepare well. Just as there should be a process with picking a coach, picking a player, picking a formation; there should be a process in how to INTERVIEW a guest. We have no neutralism in our media. When our commentators make fun of foreign names and make fun of our players on national TV, with 1000ta tike endakhtan, then there is something wrong. No foreign sports/news programs behaves in this way. If they did, the act ITSELF would make news: ' X & Y had fight on TV'. But Iran it seems to be a daily and accepted thing.

[yashar_fasihnia]

-as if mr. ghalenoi himself didnt engage in destructive criticisms before,
-as if enayati himseld didnt engage in terror shakhsi of his team mates (jenaze manam bud mitunest be portugal va mexic goal bezane)
-and ferodsipour openly said, we have recorded all the games commentary, except for support, we havent done anything. we can review it ourselves, and ghalenoi nicely skips this part.

ferdosipour is right to not be happy with ghalenois treatment and style of talking. imagine ur national coach comes infront of the whole media and openly states that u are the biggest enemy of iranian football. how would u feel, specially when u are not?
dont u feel like defending urself as well?
on top of that, ferdosipour is reprensetive of the people, he might not represent u but he does represent me and many other people who have questions for mr. ghalenoi and we want answers from him, who should ask him these questions??? when does he have the time or opportunity to answer them??
in other words, ghalenoi wrongly accuses u of something totally absurd and destructive. ghalenoi is as destrcutive as anyone else in iran, so is enayati. so they shouldnt be complaining about others!

shabake 3 has been supportive of TM all along, they criticized after the asian cup, just like they criticized after the worldcup.
ghalenoi claims ferdosipour doesnt want a coach like gahelnoi "shekl begire" as if ferodsipour is ghalenois enemy or has some agenda against ghalenoi.
he did the same against branko, daei, firooz karimi, samad marfavi, parvin, and all other coaches in IPL and TM.

but shabake 3 never did anything but support TM during the worldcup or asian cup, only after when both campaigns failed.

like Dr. Zolfagharnasab said, mardome ma be andaze kafi football fahm hastan va nemitunim sareshuno kolah bezarim.

[RaginG Inferno]

Bahram and Yashar Jaan,
Thanks for your input. I request everyone not see this as Pro GN and Anti GN thing. The issue is something else. It is about how to criticize actions and not the person.
During the reveloustion people said "Marg Bar Shah", it was as if it was a personal matter against the person. Not against his policies. After a while, he was gone and same policies continued more or less in a different way.
Now with GN certain behviors and policies needed to be questioned, not a big part of the discussion being spent on whether GN allegedly said this was the greatest game of Iran vs. Korea (according to Ferdoosi Poor) or GN's version which was it was a good game.
Bahram Jaan,
I have nothing aginst Ferdoosipoor and even if I criticize him for this one time, it doesn't make him as abad guy or I should be against him from this point on. I think we should crticize the action not the man. The whole gist of the issue is this. Ferdoosi Poor as a host needs to make sure tough questions are being asked, but doesn't need to be confrontational. Creation of a the confrontational atmosphere will derail the show. In a way it did. How much time was spent about the so called quote by GN whether this game was the greatest game of history!!! GN denied he said that, but let's assume he did. Is that the main issue? What GN said or didn't say? Or asking a more important question that never was asked by any other three (Ferdoosi, Zolfaghar Nasab and Haaj Rezai). The main question that was never asked was this. While it is true that the head coach has the right to set his team the way he want, but we want to know based on what factors you came to these decisions. Basically GN's and his staff's thought processing. No one asked the right question in my view (unfortunately).
Instead of a mature conversation it turned to kid's fight between GN and Ferdoosi Poor.
Yashar Jaan,
You are totally right when say someone has to ask the hard questions. But Befarma besheen and Betamarg both mean teh same thing, One can ask the questions without being hostile. As soon as one side fo the discussion gets hostile, the whole discussion becomes futile. For the records, I am not saying everything Ferdoosi Poor said was wrong. Many of the things he said were right, but host's role is different. There were two critics there, if Ferdoosi Poor thought those two guys were not serious enough, he shouldn't have brought them, or even still they were tough enough, he could have posed leading questions and make sure discussion goes where it needs to go.
Once again I have nothing against Ferdoosi Poor and I hope he learns from this experience and next time he hosts a show, he realizes he needs to remain neutral and try to faciliate the discussion and make sure the discussions stays on topic rather then he himself create more side issues.
Bottom line is I wish we learn how to criticize without getting too confrontational. This is where we move toward dialgouge and not conforntation. This is how gradually evolution will occur.

Eyval.

The Shah example is well integrated, it's a good example of the culture of criticism in our country.

The nature of criticism in Iran largely centres around 'reductionism', where the causes of complex occurrences are reduced to one simple explanation.

This creates an atmosphere where groups attempt, with all their effort, to eradicate this ostensible cause. First it was Branko, many believed if we eliminated him, success would ensue. Now, it is Ghalenoei.

Before that, it was Dadkan. Now, his replacement has shown to be even worse.

The realistic answer to our criticism is, our entire footballing system needs a revolution. We cannot simply place Capello in charge and expect instant success. It's akin to putting a Ferrari engine into a common Ford, and expecting consistent performance...without an adequate chassis, drivetrain and other technology, the performance of this vehicle will never be complete. Our football is similar in this way, we cannot expect that reforming certain parts of our football will make us world class.

This is the fallacy which accompanies this irresponsibility in criticism surrounding our football. Perhaps when this is realized, we may see some improvement.

Thoughts?

[RaginG Inferno]

-as if mr. ghalenoi himself didnt engage in destructive criticisms before,
-as if enayati himseld didnt engage in terror shakhsi of his team mates (jenaze manam bud mitunest be portugal va mexic goal bezane)
-and ferodsipour openly said, we have recorded all the games commentary, except for support, we havent done anything. we can review it ourselves, and ghalenoi nicely skips this part.
ferdosipour is right to not be happy with ghalenois treatment and style of talking. imagine ur national coach comes infront of the whole media and openly states that u are the biggest enemy of iranian football. how would u feel, specially when u are not?
dont u feel like defending urself as well?
on top of that, ferdosipour is reprensetive of the people, he might not represent u but he does represent me and many other people who have questions for mr. ghalenoi and we want answers from him, who should ask him these questions??? when does he have the time or opportunity to answer them??
in other words, ghalenoi wrongly accuses u of something totally absurd and destructive. ghalenoi is as destrcutive as anyone else in iran, so is enayati. so they shouldnt be complaining about others!
shabake 3 has been supportive of TM all along, they criticized after the asian cup, just like they criticized after the worldcup.
ghalenoi claims ferdosipour doesnt want a coach like gahelnoi "shekl begire" as if ferodsipour is ghalenois enemy or has some agenda against ghalenoi.
he did the same against branko, daei, firooz karimi, samad marfavi, parvin, and all other coaches in IPL and TM.
but shabake 3 never did anything but support TM during the worldcup or asian cup, only after when both campaigns failed.
like Dr. Zolfagharnasab said, mardome ma be andaze kafi football fahm hastan va nemitunim sareshuno kolah bezarim.

Agha Yashar,

You mention(quite rightly) that:

"-as if mr. ghalenoi himself didnt engage in destructive criticisms before"
"-as if enayati himseld didnt engage in terror shakhsi of his team mates (jenaze manam bud mitunest be portugal va mexic goal bezane)"

It's true. They did engage in counterproductive behaviour, however, this does not excuse this behavior, or allow others to emulate it. It's similar to the cliche, if your friend jumped off the cliff, would you jump too?