Ferdoosi Poor in GN/Zolfaghar Nasab/Haj Rezi Round Table

[RaginG Inferno]

I think many of you have mistaken ferdosipoor's sensationalism for "cutting edge" journalism.

even when he was doing this to branko, I used to say he's overdoing it.
I can understand him trying to look very modern, interviewing like some of the western journalists who are frank and cutting and ... .
but he's got the essence of it wrong.

a proper comparison is BBC's "HARD TALK".
this is journalism that is frank and sometimes highly incisive, but at the same time, respectable and well mannered.... and devoid of sensationalism that you'd see in magazines like people or star or ... !

ferdosipoor, apparently, hasnt been able to differentiate between quality and yellow / trashy journalism !

-------------------------

and unlike ali who has nothing against adel, I DO.
I think he's very silly and his insistence on this kind of controversial journalism has led to many unrests in our football.
and if he's actually this well educated as zz says, it is even MORE TRAGIC to see such an educated fellow succumb to such dirty traits & behavior.
I think too much trashy and rubbish reality TV and yellow rags does this to a person!

Good summary. I liked the comparison with Hardtalk, it seems as if he is trying to emulate this style, yet he ignores many subtleties necessary for this to work. Instead, he comes across as more belligerent than inquiring...

[TM-Fan]

Sorry, but you can't simply include GN's response, without including what was said to him to provoke him. This is often referred to quoting him 'out of context'.

In general I agree with your "out of context" concept. In this specific case though, I was responding to Ali Chicago's quote: "GN sat there and took a lot of things and didn't say a word", which is incorrect.

I don't agree with you that GN was "provoked".

[BehzadB]

so far I have only watched first two hours of the show and I think Adel went too far with his wise ass remarks ............ I don't care how bad QN was, 90 went a little too far.. to the point of making people feel bad for QN..

Dr. Z was great in the beginning but he dissappointed me a little bit with his nagging questions about Kaabi.. he agreeed vividly that every coach has the right to chose his own players, but then he comes back and keeps asking QN why he didn't use Kaabi ... maybe he was too (Ehsasati).. Dr. Z still the best in my book..

but I gotta tell you, the best one of them all was the other dude.. he nailed it..

ADABIAT yad begir Aghaye Ghaleh Noei!

[yashar_fasihnia]

Sorry, but you can't simply include GN's response, without including what was said to him to provoke him. This is often referred to quoting him 'out of context'.

the whole point is ghalenoi started with the provoking during the tournament claiming TV3 is iran's biggest enemy. thats one hell of a major accusation for arguably the most popular and most watched TV station in iran!

In general I agree with your "out of context" concept. In this specific case though, I was responding to Ali Chicago's quote: "GN sat there and took a lot of things and didn't say a word", which is incorrect.
I don't agree with you that GN was "provoked".

exactly!

[kaz]

Sorry, but you can't simply include GN's response, without including what was said to him to provoke him. This is often referred to quoting him 'out of context'.

Yes, this is the point a lot of people miss. If Ali jan is saying he thought GN somewhat reasonable, you would assume he is talking about the relative hostility he was faced with. That's how I saw it and why I agree.

[Ali Chicago]

so far I have only watched first two hours of the show and I think Adel went too far with his wise ass remarks ............ I don't care how bad QN was, 90 went a little too far.. to the point of making people feel bad for QN..
Dr. Z was great in the beginning but he dissappointed me a little bit with his nagging questions about Kaabi.. he agreeed vividly that every coach has the right to chose his own players, but then he comes back and keeps asking QN why he didn't use Kaabi ... maybe he was too (Ehsasati).. Dr. Z still the best in my book..
but I gotta tell you, the best one of them all was the other dude.. he nailed it..
ADABIAT yad begir Aghaye Ghaleh Noei!

I agree Behzad Khan. The man is one of the most knowledgable guys in our football "Haj Rezai". He was the guest on IRIB2 for the first game (Uzbakistan) and he told his criticizems but without being denegrating. I wish I see more poeple like him, that criticize the specific action not the person as a whole. This is what you learn when you take management courses "Giving Feedback" in developed countries.

For all of the members, I strongly recommand to read an article in yesterday's Jahanefootball written by Dr. Mohammad Ehsani. It is on page 3 and the title is "Nakhooda na Keshtee ra meeshenasad va na Darya ra".
In that article he says it in a very concise way when he describes we don't know how to criticize and make the thing personal after a while.

I strongly recommand everyone to read that article please. At least let's learn something from this defeat which would be "how to criticize constructively?".

[RaginG Inferno]

the whole point is ghalenoi started with the provoking during the tournament claiming TV3 is iran's biggest enemy. thats one hell of a major accusation for arguably the most popular and most watched TV station in iran!
exactly!

I don't really care how popular TV3 is, popularity doesn't mean they are permitted to be unreasonable...

Adel Ferdowsipour has consistently been out of line, with comments like 'faghad Ali Daei mitoonest in shansh ro kharob koneh', and 'khoda hafez Ali Daei, khoda hafez Branko'.

Who is he to insult someone who has done infinitely more for Iranian soccer than he can imagine? Who is he to try to dismiss Daei and Branko, during a world cup game? Then, he tries to pressure GN on national television to resign...

Sorry, but Ferdowsipour has clearly crossed the boundary, demonstrating extreme bias, not to mention rudeness. Ferdowsipour is setting a dangerous example in criticism of Iran's football, which encourages others to emulate his manner of criticism...this is, in my opinion, a great hindrance to our football. I agree with GN on this point.

[RaginG Inferno]

"GN sat there and took a lot of things and didn't say a word", which is incorrect.

If you were humiliated and insulted(called to resign by a ping pong player!), not just face to face, but on national television, I think your response would perhaps even be more colorful than GN's.

[Ali Chicago]

I don't really care how popular TV3 is, popularity doesn't mean they are permitted to be unreasonable...
Adel Ferdowsipour has consistently been out of line, with comments like 'faghad Ali Daei mitoonest in shansh ro kharob koneh', and 'khoda hafez Ali Daei, khoda hafez Branko'.
Who is he to insult someone who has done infinitely more for Iranian soccer than he can imagine? Who is he to try to dismiss Daei and Branko, during a world cup game? Then, he tries to pressure GN on national television to resign...
Sorry, but Ferdowsipour has clearly crossed the boundary, demonstrating extreme bias, not to mention rudeness. Ferdowsipour is setting a dangerous example in criticism of Iran's football, which encourages others to emulate his manner of criticism...this is, in my opinion, a great hindrance to our football. I agree with GN on this point.

Thanks for brining this up. Adel used to make similar comments on national TV which at best are inflmatory. People keep seeing this as Adel vs. GN and these days being GN isn't fun. But the point is, as a host, there are certain lines you shouldn't cross. Or if you feel so strongly about an issue, don't come as a host, come as a critic and let Mazdak Mirzai or Paymon Yousefi be the host and Adel comes as a critic. In that case, he could have said the same thign or even harsher words.

[yashar_fasihnia]

If you were humiliated and insulted(called to resign by a ping pong player!), not just face to face, but on national television, I think your response would perhaps even be more colorful than GN's.

ghalenoi first said in malaysia itself that TV 3 is irans footballs biggest enemy.
how come u dont see this as the first action???
u dont expect TV3 and ferodispour to be defensive about this accusation?
besides, ghalenoi had earlier made some negative comments about navad program and ferdosipour.

Thanks for brining this up. Adel used to make similar comments on national TV which at best are inflmatory. People keep seeing this as Adel vs. GN and these days being GN isn't fun. But the point is, as a host, there are certain lines you shouldn't cross. Or if you feel so strongly about an issue, don't come as a host, come as a critic and let Mazdak Mirzai or Paymon Yousefi be the host and Adel comes as a critic. In that case, he could have said the same thign or even harsher words.

so does ghalenoi as the coach of the national team and reprsentative of 70 million iranians!

[yashar_fasihnia]

a person like ferdosipour is required in the country to be able to question the corrupt figures as much as possible.

imagine u had khiyabani there, he would only be saying chakerim amir khan, shoma dorost migin, etc!

in a country where everything goes wrong, we shouldnt come and point fingers at an individual who is questioning the wrong doings and the wrong doers, whether he is doing it the right or wrong way.
this is the only way we can "mocheshuno begirim va dasteshuno ru konim" but like everything else, it requires time because the foundations of this regime have been built over 30 years and it cant be revealed and burnt down into ashes in a 2 hour program.

also add the fact that ghalenoi started a kind of "war" between TV3 and himself by accusing TV3 of being irans football enemy!
wats even more funny is that adel and TV3 have been doing the same thing all along, to different coaches and players, and nobody complained that time, infact many participated in such things, now all of a sudden people wake up from their sleeps and poor ghalenoi is being crushed by the unjust cruel media...wat a joke!

[TM-Fan]

If you were humiliated and insulted(called to resign by a ping pong player!), not just face to face, but on national television, I think your response would perhaps even be more colorful than GN's.

RaginG jan, good that you mentioned about the Ping Pong thing, which was told a few years back by GN when he was in Esteghlal to discredit and humilate Ferdosipoor,

Now about the show and the resignation question, first we need to think what we expected from the show itself. Some say Ferdosipoor should have remained neutral. I totally disagree with this sentence. It was not really a discussion between leftists vs rightists, or creationism vs evolutionism.

Our team had a bad performance in a tournament and the coach had come there to explain his tactics to the people. The host was actually there as the mouth of the 70 million people, and his duty was to ask the common questions that have been asked by the people and the media during the past few months and make sure to get the answers from the coach.

Now about the resignation question, I can find the link in this forum that this exact question was asked by many people and also some newspapers before it was asked in the show and after GN's post-match interview with Korea, in which he accepted all the responsibilities for the loss. And Ferdosipoor didnt call for GN to resign, he asked whether GN wants to resign or not, and when GN told him why he is asking this question, Ferdosipoor replied that it is common practice after someone accepts all the responsibilities for a loss.

About Daei and Branco thing, I totally agree with you, he should not have said that. His performance in the recent show with GN was not flawless either. But again people make mistakes and need feedbacks to correct their behaviors. But if you compare Ferdosipoor overall performance with our other reporters, I would say Ferdosipoor is much better than all of them. Just look how popular is the Navad show and compare it to the other sprots shows in TV.

[Ali Chicago]

a person like ferdosipour is required in the country to be able to question the corrupt figures as much as possible.
imagine u had khiyabani there, he would only be saying chakerim amir khan, shoma dorost migin, etc!
in a country where everything goes wrong, we shouldnt come and point fingers at an individual who is questioning the wrong doings and the wrong doers, whether he is doing it the right or wrong way.
this is the only way we can "mocheshuno begirim va dasteshuno ru konim" but like everything else, it requires time because the foundations of this regime have been built over 30 years and it cant be revealed and burnt down into ashes in a 2 hour program.
also add the fact that ghalenoi started a kind of "war" between TV3 and himself by accusing TV3 of being irans football enemy!
wats even more funny is that adel and TV3 have been doing the same thing all along, to different coaches and players, and nobody complained that time, infact many participated in such things, now all of a sudden people wake up from their sleeps and poor ghalenoi is being crushed by the unjust cruel media...wat a joke!

I am sorry to see that you have your pre assumptions instead of what a few members write.

No one is saying it is poor GN. GN needs to be questioned Seriously too. Actually Adel failed to ask a few important questions or let GN dodge answwring them.

All we are saying is how to ask the questions. Know your own level. Befarma, Besheen va Betamargh all mean the same thing. It is how you say it!!! Do you turn the argument into something personal (so the person gets defensive) or trying to question specific behavior and seperate the behavior from the person.

As for TV3 doing the same for all of the coaches is a bit of a stretch to say the least. Remember Yaare Davazdahoom before WC. Rember how that stupid Ahmaid Nezhad went to TM camp. A month to two before teh start of the wc attacks against head coach was reduced substanitally. No one at teh time said why Iranina team went to camp in Switzerland adn played a couple of small towns or villages. Very few attacked Branko for the disappointing loss to QPR (which was rigth btw).

As for your comment certain member were quite then and now are critical. If your were talking about me, I was quite and didn't say a single word against or for Branko. I read the whole thing between DD and the rest (Martin, Sman, toos,etc. etc.) and didn't say a word. After the Mexico game I started to criticize and afer portugal game I was furious. The way our team played with 11 man behind the ball and Hashemian for the most part was playing close to the center circle. That is how back our team was. Branko wasn't man or professional enough to come back and defend himself. Had he come, I would have beleived he should enjoy the same privilages I think the current TM head coach had to enjoy (no personal attacks, criticizem by expert not by the TV host, etc. etc.).

You and many guys see this as Adel vs. GN. This isn't the issue. You heard the story of one day an educated man goes to a village and tries to teach the villagers writing. So he write "Snake" and tells the villagers this is the snake (Maar). The akhoond of the village who think his position is in danger, comes and draw a snake instead of writing snake and asks teh villagers; "you tell me which one is snake, what I did or what the new guy wrote?". Of course everyone agrees with the akhoond. Now Adel is the one who draws the snake.

[Ali Chicago]

......
About Daei and Branco thing, I totally agree with you, he should not have said that. His performance in the recent show with GN was not flawless either. But again people make mistakes and need feedbacks to correct their behaviors. But if you compare Ferdosipoor overall performance with our other reporters, I would say Ferdosipoor is much better than all of them. Just look how popular is the Navad show and compare it to the other sprots shows in TV.

For the first part of your comments about Adel and GN:

You seem to miss one important factor when you say Ferdoosi poor was there to ask people's question (or at least not with that tone that he asked).

There were two football expert critics (Karshenas) there. What was their role? Wasn't their role to question football decisions of GN during the AFC? What was Adel's role? To make sure show remains within that framework. What happened instead? Several times Adel and GN went back and forth wether GN said this was the greatest game of Iran against Korea? Was this the point of show? Roo kam ***** of GN or discussiong footballing decisions of GN. Even if GN is trying to dodge the football related questions and be evasisve.

As for your comments about Adel and Daie and Branko:
That I think is the whole gist of the thing. When a reporter or a host, using the tribune he has to overstep his boundries. He did it with Daie and Branko and you seem to mind that, but when he repeated the same behvioru (over stepping as a host in a show that had two football criticis).
Don't you see a duality and discrepnecy in your position when you say he was wrong when he overstepped his boundry by saying those things about the Daie but he pressure the head coach of the TM to annouce his resignation? Country has a federation, and an organization which will decide, I hope the future of no natioal Team coach will be decided in a TV show in the future (being GN or anyone else). After the WC in that tense and irrational atmosphere and due to AFC qualification, GN was selected in a very questionable manner. This time there is no pressure, let's don't do things out of emotions. I think GN should resign, but this hoo va janjal about him isn't construcitve and will put a bad precedence for the next TM coach.

[TM-Fan]

For the first part of your comments about Adel and GN:
You seem to miss one important factor when you say Ferdoosi poor was there to ask people's question (or at least not with that tone that he asked).
There were two football expert critics (Karshenas) there. What was their role? Wasn't their role to question football decisions of GN during the AFC? What was Adel's role? To make sure show remains within that framework. What happened instead? Several times Adel and GN went back and forth wether GN said this was the greatest game of Iran against Korea? Was this the point of show? Roo kam ***** of GN or discussiong footballing decisions of GN. Even if GN is trying to dodge the football related questions and be evasisve.
As for your comments about Adel and Daie and Branko:
That I think is the whole gist of the thing. When a reporter or a host, using the tribune he has to overstep his boundries. He did it with Daie and Branko and you seem to mind that, but when he repeated the same behvioru (over stepping as a host in a show that had two football criticis).
Don't you see a duality and discrepnecy in your position when you say he was wrong when he overstepped his boundry by saying those things about the Daie but he pressure the head coach of the TM to annouce his resignation? Country has a federation, and an organization which will decide, I hope the future of no natioal Team coach will be decided in a TV show in the future (being GN or anyone else). After the WC in that tense and irrational atmosphere and due to AFC qualification, GN was selected in a very questionable manner. This time there is no pressure, let's don't do things out of emotions. I think GN should resign, but this hoo va janjal about him isn't construcitve and will put a bad precedence for the next TM coach.

If you like the neutral mojri, you can go watch GN's TV interview a few days before that show in the Varzesho Mardom show (with jahangir ***ari) when GN did his BSing for one hour and half without answering a single question. Why do you think that show was never even talked about and Ferdosipoor's show is all over the internet?

The role of everybody in Ferdosipoor show was to ask GN about his tactics. Ferdosipoor is a sports journalist, and was more familiar with the questions of the people and media. The other two professionals were also there to comment on the more technical issues.

About GN being questioned about his "Iran Korea's best ever match" quote, the advantage of questioning him is that at least the next time GN wants to say a crap and BS like that in front of a camera, he will think twice before opening his mouth.

About Daei and Branko, there is a difference between calling for resignation and asking someone whether he wants to resign or not. Daei at the time he was a TM player was asked many times by different journalists whether and when he was going to quit TM. There is nothing wrong with that. But when you say, goodbye Daei and goodbye Branko, that is different.