Dear Mod............

[Ali Chicago]

Baba, If I came here and opened up a thread and said, QN used to be a bacheh Baz or an Executioner , wouldn't you or Ali chicago ask for proof?
is that thread worth leaving open here?



+ means we expect more.. (at least as far as I have understood it!)

There are pictures of him during the Galindoopool in Tehran back in late 80s. There was a piece on Radio Iran (that Ghaem Maghami ran in Los Angeles). A pasdar called and talked about other issues and in passing he talked about Lajevardi and Hajj Mojtaba Halwaii.

[Guru]

Membership of Afzali to underground secret military branch of Tudeh party is public knowledge, and your ignorant of such information public ally available does not constitute special privilege of me.

You know perfectly well that I didn't mean that part when I said you must have inside information; and by that I didn't mean you were a prisoner either. I meant this part in particular:

there were no need of any torture in his case , Once arrested he volunteered more than expected of a commie

Only someone with inside information would know that.

[Dubxl152]

Ali Jan i personally dont see why it was closed because you are correct it was football related, ie: direct relation to the upcoming IFF elections. But on the same token, dadash i say this with all due respect, shoma az man bozorgtari, have more experience and have seen done things i cant even dream of yet. so please dont take this in a negative way or as a personal attack. Dadash your post was very informative, it was an intresting read and it certainly made me think.... it fostered visions of a TM run like iraqs was under saddams "bastard i hope he rots in hell" son. Regardless of the emotions it stired within me and the duty i felt to inform all my fellow iranians. i had to keep my sense of civil duty in check because your post though informative lacked concrete evidence, Ali Jan my response to that thread was if you could please provide us with some concrete evidence i.e. picture comparison, article....etc. Without those things if i went and spread your information be it true or not without i would be no different than Ala, a conspiracy theorist which lack of evidence to back his claims.

The difference between your info and the conspiracy theorys that are constantly posted is that you Ali Jan as a member are respected for your qulaity posts, intellect and life experience people know that you wouldnt just post bs. I personally would like to hear more about this and see if we can either A find evidence to prove it or B find evidence to refute it and that is the basis of why i think the thread should have stayed open.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali Jan i personally dont see why it was closed because you are correct it was football related, ie: direct relation to the upcoming IFF elections. But on the same token, dadash i say this with all due respect, shoma az man bozorgtari, have more experience and have seen done things i cant even dream of yet. so please dont take this in a negative way or as a personal attack. Dadash your post was very informative, it was an intresting read and it certainly made me think.... it fostered visions of a TM run like iraqs was under saddams "bastard i hope he rots in hell" son. Regardless of the emotions it stired within me and the duty i felt to inform all my fellow iranians. i had to keep my sense of civil duty in check because your post though informative lacked concrete evidence, Ali Jan my response to that thread was if you could please provide us with some concrete evidence i.e. picture comparison, article....etc. Without those things if i went and spread your information be it true or not without i would be no different than Ala, a conspiracy theorist which lack of evidence to back my claims.
The difference between your info and the conspiracy theorys that are constantly posted is that you Ali Jan as a member are respected for your qulaity posts, intellect and life experience people know that you wouldnt just post bs. I personally would like to hear more about this and see if we can either A find evidence to prove it or B find evidence to refute it and that is the basis of why i think the thread should have stayed open.

Babak Jaan,


I didn't take your post in a bad way. You and Behzad khan are right to ask me to be responsible and take an allegation like this seriously. I did my best to verify this information before I post that thread. I am not god and even perfect, I had this information and was waiting for certain number of dobule checks before publishing it. I witness god, I realize this is not a childish play and signifcance of such an accusation. I am as humanly is possible sure though these are the same people. If I am wrong, I have no fear to come and appolgize and even pay penalties in any form to Mr. Ajoorloo for damages to him. But there are evidences, picutures of him during the Galindopol's visit in Evin even and his picture recently with Habib Kashani "current CEO of Perspolice".

It is no secret that many of the Evin tourtuerers have high posts in Iran. Another Example of Hossein Shariatmadri that now runs Kayhan. Shariatmadari even mentioned that with honor that he created "Tavab" in Evin. Tavab were former political prisoners who chanted side in prison ususallyu under pressure, duress and toruture. They were spying/reporting on other prisoners who were in prison. They even participated in intergation and Tazeer " Whipping of prisoners. Tavabs were sitting in the Sepah Patrols and drove randomly in the streets to see former politically active people and show them to Sepah and Dadsetani people, so they can arrest the formerly politically active person. Of course Sharyatmadari never mentioned the methods he used to make a political prisoner a "Tavab".

[Ali Chicago]

Dear:
Ali Chicago is nice guy but in this case is simply misinformed.



If it become between Basijis and white collars , Basijis will be elected.
If it become between Basijis Ajorlu and Katiraei, Katiraei will be elected.
Indeed if Katiraei is the candidate, consider him new IFF chief. Farahani is trying hard to squeeze in one or two worthless reformers as a candidate, he will fail.
P.S. nakhoda Afzali was spy for KGB and arrested red handed, there were no need of any torture in his case , Once arrested he volunteered more than expected of a commie He asked for forgiveness before execution..
May God forgive his sins and treachery?

I have respected you for your posts but with all the respect only a guy from Dadsetani or Sepah talked like this about political prisoners. But I don't want to turn this to a political back and forth. In this case I am really disappointed that you miss the main point.

First of all this post wasn't about certain political Party and certain prisoner. It was about a tortuerer who will potentially can lead aN Iranian NGO (non gevernemental Organization) in front of the whole world.. I don't see how from this you miss the main point and starting to redecule the victims not the murderers.
BTW, you youself suggested that you are young and weren't in Evin. So may I suggest that you don't beleive what you hear a prisoner (specailly a political one) supposedly confesses to. If you yourself are hung from your wrists for half an hour or take (Ghapooni), you will confess to "anything" and I mean "Anything", they tell you. Not to mention blindfolded for months or being put in Grave "Ghabr" in Ghoohar Dasht, or whipped so called "tazzeer".

Until when do we want to blame the victims of torture for being spy fo this or that country or being so called "khaen"?
Let me refresh your mind. Saeede Seerjani the famous writeran old man was brough on TV and confessed he has done Lavat. What about that cartoonist who was brought to TV and made confessions? Hashemi "Montazaeri's son in law" who uncoverd Mc Farlin's trip to Tehran was brought on TV and supposedly "confessed" to a lot of "things". Only in a god damn country like Iran the victim of the torture will be rediculed and will be labed spy and "fifth column".

Based on my own dealings with these bastards, they didn't have anything about me. Just my words that their spies had told them. The accused me of being Pro Shah, Mojahed, Paykar, Dookhtar Baaz, drug dealer and a lot fo things. They wanted to find the so called Madrak from my own confessions. Thank god I wasn't anyone famous, otherwise they would have insisted and I am sure, I would have confessed, to may of the same so called "Crimes" or even all of them, if I had to, to get away from whipping or Ghabr. After months one of the interogators saw me and asked me why I am still there. I realized I have been cleared by him, but the bastards kept me there to bother me more.

Since you say you are young and never been in Evin, Before coming here and insulting political prisoners (regardless of their political affiliation), I suggest you read the books written by former political prisoners. Radio Farda has an interveiw with this former Mojahedeen supporter at their site. Listen to it and (I hope) then you resepct political prisoners all of them from all stripes Teemsar Rahimi former Miliatry goverener of Tehran to Leftist or rightist, Bahai, Darveesh, whoever more. In Iran no one should be put in the jail for their beleif.

P.S. " Ghabr" Grave was one of the worst form of tortures, I personally haven't experienced that, but many of my people I know told me about it which was very customery specially against Mojahed political prisoners "their girls specially since girls typically are more afraid of the dark" in Ghohar Dasht. In Ghabr, they basically bury you in the ground like a grave, in a box, you can't move or anything, as if you are in your grave.

[Dubxl152]

Babak Jaan,
I didn't take your post in a bad way. You and Behzad khan are right to ask me to be responsible and take an allegation like this seriously. I did my best to verify this information before I post that thread. I am not god and even perfect, I had this information and was waiting for certain number of dobule checks before publishing it. I witness god, I realize this is not a childish play and signifcance of such an accusation. I am as humanly is possible sure though these are the same people. If I am wrong, I have no fear to come and appolgize and even pay penalties in any form to Mr. Ajoorloo for damages to him. But there are evidences, picutures of him during the Galindopol's visit in Evin even and his picture recently with Habib Kashani "current CEO of Perspolice".
It is no secret that many of the Evin tourtuerers have high posts in Iran. Another Example of Hossein Shariatmadri that now runs Kayhan. Shariatmadari even mentioned that with honor that he created "Tavab" in Evin. Tavab were former political prisoners who chanted side in prison ususallyu under pressure, duress and toruture. They were spying/reporting on other prisoners who were in prison. They even participated in intergation and Tazeer " Whipping of prisoners. Tavabs were sitting in the Sepah Patrols and drove randomly in the streets to see former politically active people and show them to Sepah and Dadsetani people, so they can arrest the formerly politically active person. Of course Sharyatmadari never mentioned the methods he used to make a political prisoner a "Tavab".

Nokaretam dadash, i will look up some of these names you have provided and see if i can compile some pictures .......thanks for the intel. this topic is the kind of topic which makes you nauseous, i want to ignore it and think about something else but i cant............ Evin is the longest standing monmument to torture which bridges revoulution & government, i hope and pray that i see it burnt to thr ground within my lifetime.

[Ali Chicago]

Nokaretam dadash, i will look up some of these names you have provided and see if i can compile some pictures .......thanks for the intel. this topic is the kind of topic which makes you nauseous, i want to ignore it and think about something else but i cant............ Evin is the longest standing monmument to torture which bridges revoulution & government, i hope and pray that i see it burnt to thr ground within my lifetime.

Makes two of us.

[St_Mark]

I have respected you for your posts but with all the respect only a guy from Dadsetani or Sepah talked like this about political prisoners. But I don't want to turn this to a political back and forth. In this case I am really disappointed that you miss the main point.

First of all this post wasn't about certain political Party and certain prisoner. It was about a tortuerer who will potentially can lead aN Iranian NGO (non gevernemental Organization) in front of the whole world.. I don't see how from this you miss the main point and starting to redecule the victims not the murderers.
BTW, you youself suggested that you are young and weren't in Evin. So may I suggest that you don't beleive what you hear a prisoner (specailly a political one) supposedly confesses to. If you yourself are hung from your wrists for half an hour or take (Ghapooni), you will confess to "anything" and I mean "Anything", they tell you. Not to mention blindfolded for months or being put in Grave "Ghabr" in Ghoohar Dasht, or whipped so called "tazzeer".

Until when do we want to blame the victims of torture for being spy fo this or that country or being so called "khaen"?
Let me refresh your mind. Saeede Seerjani the famous writeran old man was brough on TV and confessed he has done Lavat. What about that cartoonist who was brought to TV and made confessions? Hashemi "Montazaeri's son in law" who uncoverd Mc Farlin's trip to Tehran was brought on TV and supposedly "confessed" to a lot of "things". Only in a god damn country like Iran the victim of the torture will be rediculed and will be labed spy and "fifth column".

Based on my own dealings with these bastards, they didn't have anything about me. Just my words that their spies had told them. The accused me of being Pro Shah, Mojahed, Paykar, Dookhtar Baaz, drug dealer and a lot fo things. They wanted to find the so called Madrak from my own confessions. Thank god I wasn't anyone famous, otherwise they would have insisted and I am sure, I would have confessed, to may of the same so called "Crimes" or even all of them, if I had to, to get away from whipping or Ghabr. After months one of the interogators saw me and asked me why I am still there. I realized I have been cleared by him, but the bastards kept me there to bother me more.

Since you say you are young and never been in Evin, Before coming here and insulting political prisoners (regardless of their political affiliation), I suggest you read the books written by former political prisoners. Radio Farda has an interveiw with this former Mojahedeen supporter at their site. Listen to it and (I hope) then you resepct political prisoners all of them from all stripes Teemsar Rahimi former Miliatry goverener of Tehran to Leftist or rightist, Bahai, Darveesh, whoever more. In Iran no one should be put in the jail for their beleif.

P.S. " Ghabr" Grave was one of the worst form of tortures, I personally haven't experienced that, but many of my people I know told me about it which was very customery specially against Mojahed political prisoners "their girls specially since girls typically are more afraid of the dark" in Ghohar Dasht. In Ghabr, they basically bury you in the ground like a grave, in a box, you can't move or anything, as if you are in your grave.

[Ali Chicago]

I am not sure how you say I used your age. I am sorry if my post came across as disrespectful, which wasn't my purpose. I didn't write that to win or loose. I just shared what I knew with you.

Lot of calims you here about this political prisoners aren't just true. I am not god and don't know if X or Y did what. If Afazli was good or bad or Khaen or as you call them "Monafegh". What I know (based on my persoanl experience) is that they toruture you and if they do, you (the prisoner) confess to anything they want.

In case of Tudeh Party specifically, they arrested them not for the so called spying for Soviet Union, but their accusation was a Coup against IRI. Mnay of these guys were arrested in Ahwaz and I happen to be there at that time. Funy enough that many of these people were supporting the IRI. This was their accusation ( a coup against IRI). Of course there were no coup and when that was obvious they brought up other accusations. Of course there were no Coup, it was just an excuse by Hezzbollais to get rid of all the non-maktabis.

Again, I am sorry if I offended you which wasn't my intenetion. The younger generation of Iranians are being fed the history the way isn't the truth. I felt I should share it with you and give you a different version. It is up to you whether to beleive the pure Regim's propaganda. Howayda was Feramasoon, Sayedee SeerJani was Lavat Kar, Hashemi was Monafegh, Mojahedeen were such and such, Afzali was spy. Everybody was bad except these guys who destroyed the biggest reveloution in the 20th century.

Younger generation of Iranians should learn about event how it happened not how it is being described by the regime.

[zzgloo]

Dear:
Ali Chicago is nice guy but in this case is simply misinformed.



If it become between Basijis and white collars , Basijis will be elected.
If it become between Basijis Ajorlu and Katiraei, Katiraei will be elected.
Indeed if Katiraei is the candidate, consider him new IFF chief. Farahani is trying hard to squeeze in one or two worthless reformers as a candidate, he will fail.
P.S. nakhoda Afzali was spy for KGB and arrested red handed, there were no need of any torture in his case , Once arrested he volunteered more than expected of a commie He asked for forgiveness before execution..
May God forgive his sins and treachery?

Dear ST_Mark.............

I am realy puzzeled about you...........
The words you use,are of high importance......" Monafeghin"," crooks "," treachery", "sins "," SPY ","worthless reformers ","red handed"," commie ",..etc,etc.....which all these words,you used against people whom have been either killed or tourtured by ..... forces of Evil.....
I ask God,to forgive sins and treacheries of the different kind of people, than you have in mind.

[Guru]

Younger generation of Iranians should learn about event how it happened not how it is being described by the regime.

Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of our current younger generation have a good idea of what's really going on in Iran, and don't have any illusions about the Islamic Republic and its now corny TV shows containing Political prisoners' confessions.

There is only a small minority who either by ignorance, personal gains, or both, re-iterate regime's propaganda.

[BehzadB]

I just came back from another business tripand see that the thread I opened is closed. I am sorry to say the least. I opened that thread not to use it as a propaganda pro or against anyone. Ajoorloo is being supported to run as teh next head of IFF. I am not clear about what Behzad Khan says as my "accusation without a shred of evidance".
As for Hajj Mojtab Halwaii I have proof. Many friends of mine and to some degree I myself have felt the cosequences of behabvior this "Shekanjeh Chee". If he wants I can provide proof. As for the fact that Ajoorloo is the same Hajj Mojtaba Halwaii I have proof too. As for he is being supported to become next head of IFF I cant' give you proof in the form of paper signed by Ahmadi Nezhad and his croonies. But there are sufficient circumstancial eveidences to support my claim.
Part of this is to prevent murderers like him to represent IFF as an NGO. If this isnt' football related, either I am missing something or someone please tell me how Ajoorloo being the next head of IFF isn't football related?

Ali jan, I am glad you are back..

Let me try again as to what my objection to your thread was..

No one said you have something against Ajorloo and no one said you are doing this for propaganda .. none of that stuff.. no one said that a man running for IFF should not be discussed here.. of course he should..

the problem was that you start a thread with "there is a strong possibility that ajorloo is the same Evin torturer..." , and make a big claim. but, you don't put up any proof and when someone asks for proof, you say ask me and I will provide it. why didn't you provide it with your initial post? You don't expect people to just believe things just like that, do you?

and then you say there are enough 'circumstantial evidence' to support your claim.. I don't know what you mean by that, but circumstantial evidences are ignored by courts and not acceptable.. that's why they are called circumstantial..


Still, I am not saying I don't believe you .. but at least when you open up a thread like that put some of your evidence in your initial post.. for example put a picture of Ajorloo and that picture from the 80's (Halvaee) and then ask us to compare ... As Essi said, he could reopen it if there are proof or something that would substantiate your claim.. but look at your first post and tell me if there is anything in there that is substantial to the claim..

so that was the problem and that's why I said there was no shred of evidence in your initial post..

About Ajorloo not being football related:

Of course Ajorloo running for IFF is football related.. but a discussion (thread) on whether he is the former Evin Torturer (Halvaee) or discussing if he is the man in that 80's picture or not, or arguing if the Pasdar that Called that LA show was real or not, are not football related .. .. and that was my point about the subject not being football related.. of course if the evidence is presented then it would be different.. but you have to understand Ali jan, your experience , or your word alone is not going to be enough to make a public accusation in F+.. In General forum it would not be a problem... but the problem was mostly with lack of proof and evidence..

If Ajorloo is a former Torturer , I am all for it to expose him.. but I need to see some evidence first..

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jan, I am glad you are back..

Let me try again as to what my objection to your thread was..

No one said you have something against Ajorloo and no one said you are doing this for propaganda .. none of that stuff.. no one said that a man running for IFF should not be discussed here.. of course he should..

the problem was that you start a thread with "there is a strong possibility that ajorloo is the same Evin torturer..." , and make a big claim. but, you don't put up any proof and when someone asks for proof, you say ask me and I will provide it. why didn't you provide it with your initial post? You don't expect people to just believe things just like that, do you?

and then you say there are enough 'circumstantial evidence' to support your claim.. I don't know what you mean by that, but circumstantial evidences are ignored by courts and not acceptable.. that's why they are called circumstantial..


Still, I am not saying I don't believe you .. but at least when you open up a thread like that put some of your evidence in your initial post.. for example put a picture of Ajorloo and that picture from the 80's (Halvaee) and then ask us to compare ... As Essi said, he could reopen it if there are proof or something that would substantiate your claim.. but look at your first post and tell me if there is anything in there that is substantial to the claim..

so that was the problem and that's why I said there was no shred of evidence in your initial post..

About Ajorloo not being football related:

Of course Ajorloo running for IFF is football related.. but a discussion (thread) on whether he is the former Evin Torturer (Halvaee) or discussing if he is the man in that 80's picture or not, or arguing if the Pasdar that Called that LA show was real or not, are not football related .. .. and that was my point about the subject not being football related.. of course if the evidence is presented then it would be different.. but you have to understand Ali jan, your experience , or your word alone is not going to be enough to make a public accusation in F+.. In General forum it would not be a problem... but the problem was mostly with lack of proof and evidence..

If Ajorloo is a former Torturer , I am all for it to expose him.. but I need to see some evidence first..

Well, I have picutre of Halwaii in Ewin during the Galindoopool's visist and picture of Ajoorloo (was taken recently). Is that good enough? The thread was closed, otherwise I can post the pictures and you and other people be the judge. I am not sure how to prove Majiid Halwayee tortures in Ewin though, unless the person was there and was subject of his acts or had freinds and family who were his victims. The murderous regime executed a large number of political prisoners who were in its jail back in 1988, so those poor political prisoners took their stroeis to grave with themselves.

The main reason for opening that thread was to use the so called "crowd sourcing". If you live in US you must be familiar with that term. I wanted to gather more information thorugh other memebers as well. The thread was closed unfortunately. It is amazing that there are threads about persoanl lives of people (recently, there was a thread about a woman who claimed to be Ali Daie's misteress) and it wasn't closed, but a thread like this was closed. I like to beleive in good of the people. Maybe it is a coincidence.

[BehzadB]

Well, I have picutre of Halwaii in Ewin during the Galindoopool's visist and picture of Ajoorloo (was taken recently). Is that good enough? The thread was closed, otherwise I can post the pictures and you and other people be the judge.

no I didn't say that would be good enough.. but it would be a start.

yes the other thread was closed but two more are open about the same subject and we have had 45 Posts in this one about the same exact topic of your initial thread.. meaning, You don't need to have that thread open for you to put up your pictures.. you can use one of the two open threads to put up whatever Evidence you have, for everyone to see..

I think whatever you wanted to say in the other thread has already been said in this thread, which makes closing the other thread kind of pointless..

[St_Mark]

no I didn't say that would be good enough.. but it would be a start.

yes the other thread was closed but two more are open about the same subject and we have had 45 Posts in this one about the same exact topic of your initial thread.. meaning, You don't need to have that thread open for you to put up your pictures.. you can use one of the two open threads to put up whatever Evidence you have, for everyone to see..

I think whatever you wanted to say in the other thread has already been said in this thread, which makes closing the other thread kind of pointless..

Dear : These allegations are not new , its product of defamed traitorous mind of Tudeh party members. What else they can say? How else they had to justify criminal activities of their party in behave of Iranian enemies.
Unable to face reality they resort to what they do the best fabrication, lies, character assassination
Tudeh party leaders were convicted criminals . Their ideologue and leaders confess, wrote books about their criminal traitorous history of betray.

راه توده