Olerum's issue & "Hired Gun" approach

[Doctor DOOM]

Ali jan, che shrewd-i ? che prude-i ?
expecting strikers to score goals is NOT over-expectation. ( I dont mix it w expecting to win asia cup or ... )
baradar, our strikers didnt do very well.
no matter how we try to justify enayati's and VH's lack of scoring by their constant running and hassling defenders, they didnt score.

and that is nothing new so we could just brush it aside.
this plague has hit us for quite some time now with low scoring games and lower number of goals by our designated strikers.

yes, some of it may be the defective systems employed or lack of support from the mid or ... . but the harsh truth is that in the past 2 - 2 & 1/2 years the state of our forward line up has been dysmal !

and worse, none of the coaches or clubs or ... have seriously tried to attend to this.
clubs either go on trading old strikers between each other. or just buy from outside !
in fact I'd add one more item to my list of "To do"s : IFF shd ban hiring of strikers and GK's from outside Iran . if it lowers our league standard ( as some may say ) so be it. at least it develops players for our nat'l team.

=========

I think Fekri was the coach after dehdari ... but I may be off a bit.
I know he was considered as a candidate after parvin screwed up in '94-WCQ's

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jan, che shrewd-i ? che prude-i ?
expecting strikers to score goals is NOT over-expectation. ( I dont mix it w expecting to win asia cup or ... )
baradar, our strikers didnt do very well.
no matter how we try to justify enayati's and VH's lack of scoring by their constant running and hassling defenders, they didnt score.
and that is nothing new so we could just brush it aside.
this plague has hit us for quite some time now with low scoring games and lower number of goals by our designated strikers.
yes, some of it may be the defective systems employed or lack of support from the mid or ... . but the harsh truth is that in the past 2 - 2 & 1/2 years the state of our forward line up has been dysmal !
and worse, none of the coaches or clubs or ... have seriously tried to attend to this.
clubs either go on trading old strikers between each other. or just buy from outside !
in fact I'd add one more item to my list of "To do"s : IFF shd ban hiring of strikers and GK's from outside Iran . if it lowers our league standard ( as some may say ) so be it. at least it develops players for our nat'l team.

Payman Jaan,
My post had nothing to do with the quality of strikers. Guess I need to improve my writing. My post was in most part or high level of unrealistic expectations by fans from our football. Our fans beleive we have to win every cup in asia from U17 to Senior level. I gave the example of Germany or England that although they are strong countries (football wise) in Europe, they haven't won European Championship for a while.

Football has become a much more defensive minded games. Goalies are bigger, taller in size and their average wing span is wider now. Lot of teams are playing 4-5-1 now or even 3-6-1. So I don't agree with your premises "drought of forwards in Iran". In Malaysia our forwards didn't fair well (that I agree), but overall a tons of quality forwards are on their way. I know you won't like what I say next but Ooladi, Akbarpoor, Saber Mir Ghorbanee, Amraiye, Shafie, Sayed Salehi, Hojjat Zad Mahmood, Gholamreza Rezai (EsEs Ahwaz). A bit older crowd, like Bayati Nia, Fazli, Samereh and even Faraz Fatemi in PP.

For a while our TM played with one tactic mostly, Centering the ball for Daie and on his hey days, he dominated in the air at the Asian level at least. Then came the Karimi, Mahdavi Kia (to a lesser degree add Kaabi) duo/trio. Our TM basically relied on them and corner kicks and free kicks.

With inevitable downhill of Karimi and Kia our team needs to find new leaders. That is what I hoped GN accompolish in AFC, but unfortunately, he didn't show the courage in AFC. Point is, there will be a transition period in TM I think and lack of goal scoring isn't just a forward line issue.

[Doctor DOOM]

altho' it's a bit off topic, but ali jan, I agree we shdnt have UNREALISTIC expectation.

but at the same time, I dont see why we shd not consider ourselves as a contender for any trophy in asia in seniors category. youth teams is a wholly different ball game ... unfortunately !

maybe the word "expect" is used rather loosely. but we certainly shd aim high and think of ourselves among the contenders for the top spot in asia. and there's nothing wrong with that.
the same germany and england you mentioned, always do so for euro champs and continental trophies.

and I do think some of their fans too, feel depressed after an early exit or bad showing. it's the nature of such popular sport. FANS feel more than mere spectators.

and no matter how defensive the game has become. strikers are there to score, essentially.
if they can help in build ups or creating chances and space, it's all very well.
but they are there to score too. and if they dont deliver this regularly & frequently, they are not deemed highly.

I'm sure you also are of the same opinion that our forwards in the past 2-3 years have been performing dysmally. dont deny it.


............ NO.
I said DONT.
stop it.
we are not hearing you.


=================

I didnt say we are absolutely hopeless. but we ARE in a very delicate & dangerous position where we are going to face some tough games in WCQ's and have no reliable , experienced poacher.
we do have some potentials and hopefuls ( see below ) but they are not in the team, dont have the required experience, and need time to gain that and gel with the rest of TM.
TIME that we can hardly afford ! and we MUST work very hard and be very stringent to get the most out of it in the time we have.

now as for the names u mentioned.

I, personally, put them in 2 categories:
1- useful and potential ones: mirghorbani, amraei, shafi'ee, ...
2- not so useful ones, who may have some issue striking against them:
- fatemi - too old
- samereh - bacheh naneh
- seyed salehi - absolutely inconsistent ( altho' I like him )
-

and there's a third category too:
OLAAGH's: olaadi. the guy just wont learn how to play football ... no matter how much coaches and others try to force ideas into his dense head !
and akbarpoor.

[Ali Chicago]

altho' it's a bit off topic, but ali jan, I agree we shdnt have UNREALISTIC expectation.
but at the same time, I dont see why we shd not consider ourselves as a contender for any trophy in asia in seniors category. youth teams is a wholly different ball game ... unfortunately !
maybe the word "expect" is used rather loosely. but we certainly shd aim high and think of ourselves among the contenders for the top spot in asia. and there's nothing wrong with that.
the same germany and england you mentioned, always do so for euro champs and continental trophies.
and I do think some of their fans too, feel depressed after an early exit or bad showing. it's the nature of such popular sport. FANS feel more than mere spectators.
and no matter how defensive the game has become. strikers are there to score, essentially.
if they can help in build ups or creating chances and space, it's all very well.
but they are there to score too. and if they dont deliver this regularly & frequently, they are not deemed highly.
I'm sure you also are of the same opinion that our forwards in the past 2-3 years have been performing dysmally. dont deny it.
............ NO.
I said DONT.
stop it.
we are not hearing you.
=================
I didnt say we are absolutely hopeless. but we ARE in a very delicate & dangerous position where we are going to face some tough games in WCQ's and have no reliable , experienced poacher.
we do have some potentials and hopefuls ( see below ) but they are not in the team, dont have the required experience, and need time to gain that and gel with the rest of TM.
TIME that we can hardly afford ! and we MUST work very hard and be very stringent to get the most out of it in the time we have.
now as for the names u mentioned.
I, personally, put them in 2 categories:
1- useful and potential ones: mirghorbani, amraei, shafi'ee, ...
2- not so useful ones, who may have some issue striking against them:
- fatemi - too old
- samereh - bacheh naneh
- seyed salehi - absolutely inconsistent ( altho' I like him )
-
and there's a third category too:
OLAAGH's: olaadi. the guy just wont learn how to play football ... no matter how much coaches and others try to force ideas into his dense head !
and akbarpoor.

Well, Payaman Jaan,

The operative word in my post was "Unrealistic Expection to win". I totally agree with your post about "REALISTIC EXPECTATION TO COMPETE AND BE A FAVORITE" though.

Beleive me, you are preaching to the preacher when you are talking about being aggressive and not settign the bar too low. But on the other hand, expectation to win every god damn tournament in Asia is unrealistic in today's football. Then we are setting ourselves for a failure.
Our team lost to Korea on a PK shoot out. Korea had maybe two or at most three half chances on our goal. so it is not like our football all of a sudden is going through a free fall. But look at our fans. It is as if, the most unthinkable has happened.

As for forwards, I think you are too unkind to say the least to a guy like Ooladi and companies. They are just kids who found themselves in a connundrum. On one hand all of sudden found themselves in a candy shop (money, girls, politic of football) and pressure (fans expecations, confilicting advises, ....). It is tough Doki. Went to somewhat of a similar period, of course in much much smaller scale and made stupid mistakes and now I know better. But I guess I have more sympathy for them (at least I feel I undrestand the situation they are in)>
I don't know how old are you Doki jaan (and not asking since this is usa and you can sue me later for age discrimiation or some shoody lawyer will talk you into it ). But kidding aside, you should remember how was it when you were 18 or 20 or 22.

As for your other comments, I post something later.

[Doctor DOOM]

ali jan
1- I am as old as I am. which is equal to my father's only son's age and my sister's sibling's years on earth.
that shd explain how old I am.
but even then, at 18 or 20 , I knew passing is more important than showing off.
especially when I was playing table tennis.

2- I still think when God was distributing brains to ppl standing in que for it, Oladi was in the toilet and missed the ... ahem ... ceremony.
But dont worry . he did have company.
akbarpoor was in the next stall peeing on the next fellows shoes.... trying to get into a fight.
karimi also ran in after getting his due of "skills" and snatching a couple of others' on the way while god was looking the other way. so karimi ended up with twice the amount of skills but no brains to use them !!
( and god said "equilibrium is thus maintained. now if Iranians dont like it ... they can go screw themselves" )

3- Iran and TM may not be in a free-fall.
but our strikers problem is becoming a considerable mountain gradually.

[zzgloo]

Jumping in with my bare feet !!
I think, it is not just Oladi, or Nikbakht,etc...................
In general, all our players are short on intellegence...............relateively !!
European players mostly have collage degree, had had numerouse girlfrinds, speak two to three languages, and had been exposed to media, and high life for so long,and lived in more civilized culture...................
We can only compaire ourseleves with may be Arabs...which even,they have exceeded us, because of our islamic regim............
latinos,too,are better than us,,,,,,,,,,,,,because of sextual freedom,and lesser restiction on thier activities.
In all, our players are releteively, less educated, and less experinced in life.
In that respect,I only like taimoorian.

[Doctor DOOM]

bahram jan, I detect a common thread in ur post.
and the word "sex" is written all over it.
do you mean the more sex a player has, the more intelligent he gets?

[Ali Chicago]

ali jan
1- I am as old as I am. which is equal to my father's only son's age and my sister's sibling's years on earth.
that shd explain how old I am.
but even then, at 18 or 20 , I knew passing is more important than showing off.
especially when I was playing table tennis.
2- I still think when God was distributing brains to ppl standing in que for it, Oladi was in the toilet and missed the ... ahem ... ceremony.
But dont worry . he did have company.
akbarpoor was in the next stall peeing on the next fellows shoes.... trying to get into a fight.
karimi also ran in after getting his due of "skills" and snatching a couple of others' on the way while god was looking the other way. so karimi ended up with twice the amount of skills but no brains to use them !!
( and god said "equilibrium is thus maintained. now if Iranians dont like it ... they can go screw themselves" )
3- Iran and TM may not be in a free-fall.
but our strikers problem is becoming a considerable mountain gradually.

Well the mere fact that you knew then (at 18 passing is more important) can be attributed or explained by two factores.
1-Either you are an exteremly mature and intelligent 18 year old (no wonder you a Doctor neverheles a Doomed one!!)
2- Or you were brought up and learend football outside Iran.

OK there is a thrid possiblity, which would be your a very mature guy for your age.

I think you are too harsh on Ooladi and Akbarpoor. Hopefully time will help them be more mature. Ahga Payam, it is not easy to be a pro footballer in a very younge age, all these conflicting messages, girls, fame, hormons, pride, being in the bulls eyes of the media. It is Very and I mean Very difficult.

[Ali Chicago]

bahram jan, I detect a common thread in ur post.
and the word "sex" is written all over it.
do you mean the more sex a player has, the more intelligent he gets?

Kaafer hameh ra be keeyshe khood pendarad!!!! Ok kidding aside, Payman is very Jonoob, so all that hot sun of the Khoramshahr makes you go Ummmmmm....

[Doctor DOOM]

chi chi o "ummmm" ya " hot weather" ?
amoo read bahram's post: it's all about sex . LOL

[Nokhodi]

Jumping in with my bare feet !!
I think, it is not just Oladi, or Nikbakht,etc...................
In general, all our players are short on intellegence...............relateively !!
European players mostly have collage degree, had had numerouse girlfrinds, speak two to three languages, and had been exposed to media, and high life for so long,and lived in more civilized culture...................
We can only compaire ourseleves with may be Arabs...which even,they have exceeded us, because of our islamic regim............
latinos,too,are better than us,,,,,,,,,,,,,because of sextual freedom,and lesser restiction on thier activities.
In all, our players are releteively, less educated, and less experinced in life.
In that respect,I only like taimoorian.

I have to say that is very rare actually. I mean look at some of the best European and South American footballers over the past 2 decades.
Zidane, Figo, Stoichkov, Romario,... most of these guys don't even have a high school diploma!

[Ali Chicago]

As Nokhoodi pointed out most soccer players even in Europe aren't educated and stuff. But the key issue is the system. In Europe there are clubs and in order to come up to the first team, they have to go through the system. Now if you are a bone head and not a team player and stuff like that they don't make it (unless they have are an extra ordinary player). Even those extra ordinaries who aren't team players they can't fully fullfil their potentials. Remember Stoichkov the Bulgarian forward. So it is not just Oolaid or Akbarpoor.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i dont like the idea of seeing olerum playing for TM simply because i dont think he has much to offer on an international scale.

he has been successful in IPL but we all know the huge gap between our league specially our defense lines and international defense lines, even on asian level.

we have had much more successful strikers than olerum in IPL like enayati, khatibi even rajabzadeh but when they play in asia, they really cant contribute much to the team.

i think olerum will also have a similar fate.. so its better for us not to use him for TM, and atleast for the time being, keep the image of playing only iranian players with iranian bloods in them only...
if a better opportunity (for example if someone like yasser ghahtani was half iranian or even not iranian buthad similar situations as olerum) comes knocking on the door, then we can give it a thought...

[zzgloo]

bahram jan, I detect a common thread in ur post.
and the word "sex" is written all over it.
do you mean the more sex a player has, the more intelligent he gets?

yes, BIG yes.................but not more intelegent, more balanced !!!!
as lack of sex, and lack of relation with the opposite sex, creates,psycological problems.,and unrealistic view of the world.............

[zzgloo]

I have to say that is very rare actually. I mean look at some of the best European and South American footballers over the past 2 decades.
Zidane, Figo, Stoichkov, Romario,... most of these guys don't even have a high school diploma!

Nokhodi jaan............
What is there to do in Iran, for a youth ?
The Iranian players,the best they can do, is to do drugs !!.........
They do not finish school, as they know there will not be a chance to use it.
they have no fun.
they have no beach to go to.
they have no freedom to be free with thier girlfirnd ,if they had any.
there is no cultural,inviroment to grow.
Zidan,and stoichkov...............grow up, in far more open, cultured,free,femail friendship,and most importantly,higher class friends...............
The enviroment in Iran, does not encourage personal advancements.