PP and SS collecting stars again?

[Doctor DOOM]

is it me or anyone else has noticed the flashback to a decade ago and beyond?
when the two ss and pp were the only teams who kept on collecting and amassing stars from all over the league and country and the rest of the league teams looked immatiated and famished in comparison to "names & stars" ?

ss already was packed with stars like jabbari, talebloo, sadeghi, ... , and this year they've hired borhani, maniyee, shafi'ee, ... !!

PP did have some ( not as much as ss ), but aghaei, heidari, nosrati, ... coming in has made them look like the star-packed pp of the decade ago !

are we going to see the same thing at TM also, where it used to be comprised of mainly these 2 teams ?

I hope not.

[Kasra.]

Doctorjaan,

I dont think so. It's only that all the players wanna play in TM and they all know that playing in Esteghlal or persepolis will be giving them a bigger chance to reach that goal.

And also Sepahan signed a star and also Saipa and Saba. The main difference is that when a player goes to Esteghlal or persepolis (The-Red, please notice this ), it will be all hyped up and it will be all in the news, but when a player goes to Saba or Sepahan, like Nouri, Kolahkaj or Kazemi, it will not be that much in the news.

Esteghlal and persepolis are still the main "figures" in our football.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

well thats the same thing with any strong team. Bayern Munich buys all the best Bundesliga players, so do real Madrid and Barcelona in spain. the yonly difference is they have a lot of foreig players in their squad, so their national teams are not affected by that.

put it this way, its a GOOD challenge for the "no name" youth in other teams, cause at least they have a chance to play in their "other" teams to show themselves!

[Paradigm]

is it me or anyone else has noticed the flashback to a decade ago and beyond? ... are we going to see the same thing at TM also, where it used to be comprised of mainly these 2 teams ?
I hope not.

I have the same exact feelings. For a few years between 2002 and 2005 TM's backbone was comprised of Foolad and Pas, but now again it is going to be PP and SS plus the few foreign-based players. We're back to the late 90's. This is because, mostly due to the monetary issues teams such as Foolad and Pas can't maintain their star players which they promoted through their youth ranks. Other factors such as injury (Navidkia, Nosrati, Jabbari, Mirza, etc.) help bring down other ones.

[Kasra.]

Guys on the other hand, we had a lot of Foulad players, but Kameli-Mofrad (for example), is NOWHERE near Sadeghi or Nosrati or Ghorbani. At that point Esteghlal and Persepolis didn't have the "Quality Players" like they have now (from their own youth). There was a little "laydown" of quality in Esteghlal and Persepolis, but whatever happens these two are still the backbone of our Football and it will be even better when they get privatized (INSHALLAH)

[faraz]

I dont think it matters at all where our players come from - as long as they perform well for TM.

Why exactly would this be a disadvantage?

[Doctor DOOM]

becoz it will be just like a decade ago, where :
1- a player who wanted to play for TM had to somehow get to ss or pp.
2- emptying of star players in the rest of the clubs, reduces the amount of competition and we slowly start seeing the two-horse race for the trophy again !!


and just to demonstrate what I said in the original post, here is the list of TM hopefuls that have the skills and are recognized to be picked ANY DAY by any TM coach :

jabbari, niki, borhani, khalili, montazeri, sadeghi, roudbarian, talebloo, pooladi, mani'ee, aghaei, shafi'ee, heidari, mirghorbani, nosrati, ashoubi, rezaei, vaezi, .... and there are a few more !!!!!!


------------roudi / talebloo / vaezi-------------

---rezaei --- nosrati ---- heidari/montazeri ----- sadeghi---

-----ashoubi --- aghaei/badamaki ----jabbari/pooladi ----- niki/mani'ee------

---------khalili/mirghorbani ----- borhani/shafi'ee---------



doesnt this look like a regular TM ?
to ME, it's alarming to see a red/blue TM with scant few players in it from other clubs.
it's a regress to a time where our league was pathetic and lacked true competition.

[Ali Chicago]

I dont' undrestand the point of this thread. EsEs and PP management do the best they can for their respective club. Isn't that what they are supposed to do. It is the mandate of the other club managements to attract quality players????. Other teams are doing it actually. Even Paykan, just signed Tariboo West former Nigerian international.

I think other teams got established enough and have financial resources to compete. Coming to EsEs or PP has disadvantages too. Other team players are being paid on-time, aren't under the scrutiny of media and don't have to watch their every word or step or action during the practices or the geme magnified.
Other clubs, like Saipa, {Paas, Saba, Paykan have their own stadium, training facility, etc. etc. I don't hear people complain that EsEs PP don't have these!!!

I don't follow PP that closely, but in EsEs case, they got Montazeri from Foolad and Pooladi from Paykan plus Ravankhah from Fajr Shiraz. These three although very talented players, definitly don't have the so called "super star" status at least right now. Other addition, Asghar Nadali isnt' a known player either.The other two additions were Bayati Nia and Borhani specailly the last one was mostly considered in a slump for a while at least. EsEs lost Akbarpoor, Baoo, Kazemi, Hashemi Zadeh, Fekri, Taleb Nasab in return.

Even in PP they didn't get any big name players (even Khalili wasn't a house hold name in IPL), or. So I think the data doesn't support the so called trend for EsEs and PP get all the quality players. Then again, I am a blue supporter and maybe my bias, prevents me from seeing something obvious here.
Traditionally when PP and EsEs been strong, has been good for Iranian football and team melli. It was a nice welcome to see 50K fans in Azadi for EsEs and I am sure even more fans will come for PP game this week. All of this is a good news for our football.

EsEs and PP being good doesn't necessarily comes at the expense of other teams. So for keeping the league competitive, it will be a wrong attitude to expect EsEs and PP to be kept weak. We need to support EsEs and PP and in the mean time, other clubs need to improve.

[Ali Chicago]

becoz it will be just like a decade ago, where :
1- a player who wanted to play for TM had to somehow get to ss or pp.
2- emptying of star players in the rest of the clubs, reduces the amount of competition and we slowly start seeing the two-horse race for the trophy again !!
and just to demonstrate what I said in the original post, here is the list of TM hopefuls that have the skills and are recognized to be picked ANY DAY by any TM coach :
jabbari, niki, borhani, khalili, montazeri, sadeghi, roudbarian, talebloo, mani'ee, aghaei, shafi'ee, heidari, mirghorbani, nosrati, ashoubi, rezaei, vaezi, .... and there are a few more !!!!!!
------------roudi / talebloo / vaezi-------------
---rezaei --- nosrati ---- heidari/montazeri ----- sadeghi---
-----ashoubi --- aghaei ----jabbari ----- niki/mani'ee------
---------khalili/mirghorbani ----- borhani/shafi'ee---------
doesnt this look like a regular TM ?
to ME, it's alarming to see a red/blue TM with scant few players in it from other clubs.
it's a regress to a time where our league was pathetic and lacked true competition.

Doesn't Mir Ghorbani plays in Sanat Naft? Which Haydari are you talking about? Khoosroo Haydari is in Paas who played for our omid team. Sepehre Haydari is a good player but I dont' see him in TM soon at least with both Aghili and Hooseini there.
Nikki's football at TM level is over. Ashoubi is a rising star (but too bad he wasted so much time in Ooghab since he is 26-27 already). Did you see Nosrati in Sanat game. They man has gained so much weight, that I dont' think we will see anything spectacular from him for a while.

[Doctor DOOM]

ali jan,
1- guys like montazeri, khalili, may not be SUPER stars, but they were the STARS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE CLUBS.
so were bayati-nya and pooladi and mirghorbani and heidari ( who IS a very good defender ) ... .

almost all of them are young and WILL become superstars very soon.

2- nosrati's game: we cant judge a player by one game. he IS a star in Iran and one or 2 bad games dont reduce him to B grade.

3- I did explain what such trends do to the clubs, league and the overall level of competition in the league which will slowly affect TEAM-MELLI.


perhaps seeing an SS-coach getting the nod to lead the TM has sparked this trend. I dont know. but if this continues, we WILL revert to those darker days. the fact, which you also mentioned, ss and pp have many problems in terms of paying salaries, lack of infrastructure and stadia and ... and YET, we see such migration of stars to these 2 shd sound off the warning bells of an under-current mood, that could well be what I said and fear.

[zzgloo]

Excelent point DD jaan...I also believe,this is a negative developement....as our league would benefit only by diversity....,the intention of Esteghlal,and perspolise,is not neccesarly to get stronger...but, to gather more fans !!
A good example of diversity,can be ..Navidkia in Sepahan....he has elevated his team mates plays,as he would have been lost in the croud in perspolise !!

[Ali Chicago]

ali jan,
.....
perhaps seeing an SS-coach getting the nod to lead the TM has sparked this trend. I dont know. but if this continues, we WILL revert to those darker days. the fact, which you also mentioned, ss and pp have many problems in terms of paying salaries, lack of infrastructure and stadia and ... and YET, we see such migration of stars to these 2 shd sound off the warning bells of an under-current mood, that could well be what I said and fear.

I think, what you see right now, is more the reseult of SS and PP management starting to get their act together, rather than a sudden rush of players to play for EsEs and PP.

In the past, PP and EsEs management were really sub par. I mean I am sure they meant well, but maybe they weren't experienced enough. To give you an example, look at the contracts that were signed by PP management with Arie Haan, or Nikolyefeski or Panamanian players, or even Denizli's contract. It was full of clauses and stuff that easily allowed they don't do much for PP yet get to their last cents off PP or even get their money when they get fired.
For EsEs two years ago, whole bunch of players left EsEs (club could have traded them before their contract was up or resign them) but they didn't. Players played up to the end of their contract and then left. This was a huge boo boo by the management.

I think based on the poor performance of the last couple of years by PP and the whole mess of EsEs AFC deadline thing, the respective managements are getting more active. Time will show if, this year sign up was just this, or as you suggest is a sign of the old trend (where good players want to play for PP or EsEs).

[Doctor DOOM]

ali jan, I ask you, since you are/were in an organized football circuit :

which one is "getting one's act together" ?

1- investing in their youth teams so there'd be a constant supply of fresh talent whenever they want, so they dont have to spend XXXXX amounts of money to buy "established stars" of other clubs?

or

2- spending sh*tload of money on established stars , who come with their own set of problems ( ego, expectations, .... ) ?

I think when I see ss and pp start investing in their youth teams and we see a stream of ss/pp omid players in their seniors team, only THEN I will say they've got their acts together.
spending money is NOT getting one's act together, as it will never have a long-term benefit for the club.


hell, they arent even "clubs".
pp & ss are mere TEAMS.
getting their act together means they become a CLUB, by investing that sh*tload of money in their own stadium, facilities, infrastructure first.

[purple_haze]

What you say is correct in theory, but we have to be realistic. The position these 2 have doesn't allow time and space to do immediate infrastructural changes overnight. There are big expectations and all eyes are on them all the time. All the other teams have had the advantage of not being the center of attention and huge expectations so they could and some have done this.
In regards to these 2, I personally think they should do both, just like all the big clubs around the world.
Man U, Barcelona and Ajax for example are world famous for having the best youth systems in the world, but that doesn't stop them from buying the best players they can either. So doing the first doesn't automatically mean not doing the second.

These big teams will die out without their fans and what fans all around the world like the most is....."stars".

I agree with your point about them working on their youth more vali in divar az avval kaj boode and it takes time and a good, smart and caring management.

[Ali Chicago]

ali jan, I ask you, since you are/were in an organized football circuit :

which one is "getting one's act together" ?

1- investing in their youth teams so there'd be a constant supply of fresh talent whenever they want, so they dont have to spend XXXXX amounts of money to buy "established stars" of other clubs?

or

2- spending sh*tload of money on established stars , who come with their own set of problems ( ego, expectations, .... ) ?

I think when I see ss and pp start investing in their youth teams and we see a stream of ss/pp omid players in their seniors team, only THEN I will say they've got their acts together.
spending money is NOT getting one's act together, as it will never have a long-term benefit for the club.


hell, they arent even "clubs".
pp & ss are mere TEAMS.
getting their act together means they become a CLUB, by investing that sh*tload of money in their own stadium, facilities, infrastructure first.

Payman Jaan,
I am not a PP fan and dont' know, but EsEs has youth programs in Iran. A few of the products of the EsEs youth teams are:
Mojtaba Jaabbari,
Farzad Ashoubi,
Ando Teymorian
Khosro Haydari
Shays Rezai
A.H Sadeghi
Peerooze Ghorbani
Talebloo
Mojtaba Ensafi
Behshade Yavarzadeh

And many others that I dont' recall now.

So EsEs has youth teams but doesn't fully take advantage of it. In big part this was due to instability of the EsEs Management I think.

As for youth vs spending on stars, I dont' think it is a black and white selection. It is a combination of both. EsEs and PP due to their club caliber, need to always remain competetive and therefore need to attract high caliber players.

You post has a good base (inversting in youth program) though which I totally agree with. If 20% of the money spent in the player transefer spent in youth development, it will have better outcome. That I totally agree. But then again, a big part of this is management stability (well assuming the management is half decent at least).