PP and SS collecting stars again?

[zzgloo]

Ali jaan, DD jaan
If a club wants to develope its own players,and have youth foundation....in a long run, there will a period,that such club would need 2 to 3 down years !!!
That means, players go away, and the team loses its estructure,which will take long time to replace the missing,links............
In american football, there is no way, a team can stay a dinesty for long.there has to be a down period...unless,you could plug in imported vetrans.
A team, like Buyern-Munich, can never go the rout of youth developement,as its objectives are different than ,lets say Kyzerslauthern,....because, Buyern is aiming at beating Mancherter-United,not just Bundesleagua.
in short, if a team, aims at being a ' Mega yeam ', it needs to have players that fans cheer about,so they keep thier popularities, as well as, being constantly a contender, without haveing a down-time.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jaan, DD jaan
If a club wants to develope its own players,and have youth foundation....in a long run, there will a period,that such club would need 2 to 3 down years !!!
That means, players go away, and the team loses its estructure,which will take long time to replace the missing,links............
In american football, there is no way, a team can stay a dinesty for long.there has to be a down period...unless,you could plug in imported vetrans.
A team, like Buyern-Munich, can never go the rout of youth developement,as its objectives are different than ,lets say Kyzerslauthern,....because, Buyern is aiming at beating Mancherter-United,not just Bundesleagua.
in short, if a team, aims at being a ' Mega yeam ', it needs to have players that fans cheer about,so they keep thier popularities, as well as, being constantly a contender, without haveing a down-time.

As I said in my post to DD, I dont' think a club needs to select one or the another (youth Vs. Buying players). A club needs both. Please read my post again. I never claimed a club needs to go only the youth path or player transfer.

[purple_haze]

As I said in my post to DD, I dont' think a club needs to select one or the another (youth Vs. Buying players). A club needs both. Please read my post again. I never claimed a club needs to go only the youth path or player transfer.

Exactly. That's what I also mentioned. One doesn't eliminate the other and the bigger teams need both simultaneously.

[perspolees]

is it me or anyone else has noticed the flashback to a decade ago and beyond?
when the two ss and pp were the only teams who kept on collecting and amassing stars from all over the league and country and the rest of the league teams looked immatiated and famished in comparison to "names & stars" ?
ss already was packed with stars like jabbari, talebloo, sadeghi, ... , and this year they've hired borhani, maniyee, shafi'ee, ... !!
PP did have some ( not as much as ss ), but aghaei, heidari, nosrati, ... coming in has made them look like the star-packed pp of the decade ago !
are we going to see the same thing at TM also, where it used to be comprised of mainly these 2 teams ?
I hope not.

Our TM has been strongest when Persepolis and to lesser extent esteghlal has been strong.
Historically speaking this has been the case.
Our strongest showing of recent times in TM was 98 and that team was essentially on the back bone of persepolis.
Many reasons could be sited ( correct in Iran and for Iran's state of football ofcourse) as to why this is the case.
Persepolis still is no where near esteghlal as to being star studded. Esteghlal is jam packed this year..........

[perspolees]

clubs have their agenda based on what is right for them. Thinking of this or that as a must and in an absolute manner is incorrect. In Iran footbal has its own rules. We still do not have standard pitches and lited stadiums and schedules that are set ahead of time.
We dig paying millions of dollars to the likes of denizli that come and leave essentially with no impact on our football yet we do claim that why is it that the clubs are pushed to to do this or that!
khesthe aval kaje...until that is taken care of the situation is in khar mire yeki dige miyad!

[yashar_fasihnia]

Payman Jaan,
I am not a PP fan and dont' know, but EsEs has youth programs in Iran. A few of the products of the EsEs youth teams are:
Mojtaba Jaabbari,
Farzad Ashoubi,
Ando Teymorian
Khosro Haydari
Shays Rezai
A.H Sadeghi
Peerooze Ghorbani
Talebloo
Mojtaba Ensafi
Behshade Yavarzadeh
And many others that I dont' recall now.
So EsEs has youth teams but doesn't fully take advantage of it. In big part this was due to instability of the EsEs Management I think.
As for youth vs spending on stars, I dont' think it is a black and white selection. It is a combination of both. EsEs and PP due to their club caliber, need to always remain competetive and therefore need to attract high caliber players.
You post has a good base (inversting in youth program) though which I totally agree with. If 20% of the money spent in the player transefer spent in youth development, it will have better outcome. That I totally agree. But then again, a big part of this is management stability (well assuming the management is half decent at least).

2 possible reasons are:
1)players are loaned out to other clubs to develop
2)players have to joing one of the arteshi teams

[yashar_fasihnia]

Our TM has been strongest when Persepolis and to lesser extent esteghlal has been strong.
Historically speaking this has been the case.
Our strongest showing of recent times in TM was 98 and that team was essentially on the back bone of persepolis.

or the early 90s when esteghlal formed the backbone of TM...

[purple_haze]

... A few of the products of the EsEs youth teams are:
Mojtaba Jaabbari,
Farzad Ashoubi,
Ando Teymorian
Khosro Haydari
Shays Rezai <-----
A.H Sadeghi
Peerooze Ghorbani
Talebloo
Mojtaba Ensafi
Behshade Yavarzadeh
...

As far as I know and I clearly remember that Shays Rezaei played in PP youth teams, along with Haghighi, Milad Nouri, Mohammad Parvin, Ehsan Khorsandi etc. before getting to play with the seniors. The rest of them though have in fact played in SS youth.

[The-Red]

The reality is that our stars are all taken by UAE clubs and are wasted for the most part and what we have in Iran are potential stars and the fact that many of them are signed by Perspolis and ss(this one for Kasra ) is mainly because these players want the attention and want a path to the TM...I really can't see that this year is the same as 20 years ago as we see many other talents in other teams and there is a balance that exists. Besides it's only normal as some already mentioned that big teams pick up the potential stars or the big names,,,just like Barca, madrid, ManU, Bayern...

[yashar_fasihnia]

Persepolis still is no where near esteghlal as to being star studded. Esteghlal is jam packed this year..........

actually if u compare the 2 squads, u will see perspolis squad is much stronger and more complete than esteghlals.

GK
Talebloo - TM GK Vaezi - TM GK
----------------- Roudbarian - TM GK
----------------- Farshid Karimi - TM B GK
----------------- Alireza Haghighi- TM olympic GK


Defense
Sadeghi - TM Nosrati - TM
Ghorbani - TM B Sepehr Heydari - TM B
Maneii - TM B Pejman Nouri - TM B
Navazi - experienced ex-TM leader Sheys Rezai - TM B & TM olympic
Montazeri - TM olympic Elong - Cameroon National Team


Midfield
Jabbari- TM Badamaki- TM & TM B
Yousefi- TM B Ashoubi- TM B
mansourian- ex-TM and experienced leader Bagheri- ex-TM and experienced leader
Ravankhah- TM olympic Badamaki- TM & TM B
Pooladi - TM olympic Aghaei- TM B

Forward
Borhani - TM Nikbakht - TM
------ Khorsandi- TM B & TM olympic
------ Khalili- TM B

In total, esteghlal has only 7 TM & TM B players, while perspolis has 14 TM & TM B players, double the number! TM B players are those players who are close enough to break through TM!
esteghlal has 3 olympic team players, perspolis also has 3!

so this doesnt show perspolis only has better players, but also more depth than esteghlal. besides, esteghlal has only 1 good GK, perspolis has 2/3/4 depending how you look at it.
esteghlal has no DM and just 1 good GK.

perspolis has good subs in all positions, esteghlal has no subs in GK position, no DM (unless u move motanzeri to DM which means no good subs for CB position).

i think this perspolis team is really good, much better than last years inspite of losing madanchi, kaabi and oladi and has more of a chance in winning the IPL than esteghlal.

P.S. i might be making a mistake about a few players being invited to TM B like khalili, shafei, manei but overall, i think the picture is clear.

[Ali Chicago]

As far as I know and I clearly remember that Shays Rezaei played in PP youth teams, along with Haghighi, Milad Nouri, Mohammad Parvin, Ehsan Khorsandi etc. before getting to play with the seniors. The rest of them though have in fact played in SS youth.

I am sure he (Shays) used to play in EsEs youth player, I heard that from the guy who passed away (RIP) Majid Sabzi who was the coach of the PP youth.

[Ali Chicago]

The reality is that our stars are all taken by UAE clubs and are wasted for the most part and what we have in Iran are potential stars and the fact that many of them are signed by Perspolis and ss(this one for Kasra ) is mainly because these players want the attention and want a path to the TM...I really can't see that this year is the same as 20 years ago as we see many other talents in other teams and there is a balance that exists. Besides it's only normal as some already mentioned that big teams pick up the potential stars or the big names,,,just like Barca, madrid, ManU, Bayern...

Pretty much the samething I posted earlier. I think the fear is unfounded. Right now the huge indurstries like foolad Sepahan, Paykan, Zobe Ahan. Mess kerman and to a lesser degree Foolade Khoozestan have enough money and organization that PP and EsEs dream for.

20-30 years ago, there were no industry supported teams. Today there is. 2--30 years ago, in Iran there wasn't much industry. Shah alomst begged west to get steel industry (Zeobe Ahan) to Iran and damn westerners denided him. He was forced to buy it from Soviet Union then. Today, Iranina industry found a new market (former southern soviet republic, Afghanistan and a few other countries), so inudstry in Iran despite the stupid government policy is somewhat viable (20-30 years ago this wasn't the case since industry in Iran was just shaping up and furthermore, our industry didn't have a market to sell its products). I think this is the main thing DD misses when he makes that comparison.

[purple_haze]

I am sure he (Shays) used to play in EsEs youth player, I heard that from the guy who passed away (RIP) Majid Sabzi who was the coach of the PP youth.

Oh ok, if you heard it from marhoom Sabzi then it must be true. I guess he may have been in EsEs youth but later moved to PP javanan, because I have a magazine from a few years back in which they wrote some short reports of the Javanan league and his name was in PP squad.

[Masoud_A]

I think the reason behind this is that last season teams like Foolad and
Zoub Ahan who had a great line up confronted a 60% decrease in their budget so they had to sell most of their key players and go after their exteremely young players, Foolad got relegated last season and lost alot of his key players, Zoub lost all his key players last season and this season completely, they are playing with their U21 team.

The other side of the story is that PP and EsEs didnt won anything last season one of them got eliminated from ACL due to mismanagement so Sazman had to act as PP and EsEs were their teams, as a result the greatest player dealer Fathollah Zadeh came back to EsEs Iranian capello cam to power, PP went uner siginificant changes, Both teams bought every single star in IPL they could along with some foreign players, all because they have to be the old PP and EsEs and keep ppl happy even if it all results in our football go back to 15-30 years ago.

Another contributing fact can be the old school mentality of our players, they still think PP and EsEs are the road to glory and success the gates TM, Thus it was so much easier for now rich PP and EsEs to buy anyone they pointed they finger at, Khalili, Hamid Shafei for example, they let go of their chance to star in ACL just to join PP and EsEs.

All in all we are not going to progress much as long as the government is the major owner of our football.

[Ali Chicago]

I think the reason behind this is that last season teams like Foolad and
Zoub Ahan who had a great line up confronted a 60% decrease in their budget so they had to sell most of their key players and go after their exteremely young players, Foolad got relegated last season and lost alot of his key players, Zoub lost all his key players last season and this season completely, they are playing with their U21 team.
The other side of the story is that PP and EsEs didnt won anything last season one of them got eliminated from ACL due to mismanagement so Sazman had to act as PP and EsEs were their teams, as a result the greatest player dealer Fathollah Zadeh came back to EsEs Iranian capello cam to power, PP went uner siginificant changes, Both teams bought every single star in IPL they could along with some foreign players, all because they have to be the old PP and EsEs and keep ppl happy even if it all results in our football go back to 15-30 years ago.
Another contributing fact can be the old school mentality of our players, they still think PP and EsEs are the road to glory and success the gates TM, Thus it was so much easier for now rich PP and EsEs to buy anyone they pointed they finger at, Khalili, Hamid Shafei for example, they let go of their chance to star in ACL just to join PP and EsEs.
All in all we are not going to progress much as long as the government is the major owner of our football.

Very good summary IMO from someone who is in Iran and closer to the situation. As Agha Masoud pointed out, Foolad's budget got slashed last year by 60% and you saw the result. Their players were swallowed by EsEs Ahwaz. Kameli Mofrad, Badavi, and a few other teams. This happened to Zob Ahan this year, Rajabzadeh, Haydari,.... .
Also what Masoud calls old school mentality has a role here too. Many players grew up cheering for these teams, if they play for these team, they are on TV every week. These are factors after all.

Overall I dont' think we are going back to 30-40 years back with all the TM players being from PP or EsEs.