Why not football ?!

[zzgloo]

Our Volly- ball team, got thier Bronz medal in the world, last mounth,being coached by a forign coach.

Our Basketball team, became, asian Champs,also last mouth,being coached by a forign coach.

our No-javanan vollyball,right now in mexico, playing in the finals for the world championship,useing a forign coach.

I also heard, about our badmington successes, our fencing, our chess ( British grand master Nigel short coaches Iran's team), etc,etc......

There so many success stories, I Can understand why our wrestleing uses domestic coaches, but our football ??!!............

All in all, these successes, tell us, when coaching is there, and when the sport is financed, there is no shortage of talent in Iran.,and more over,...forign coaches,indeed,do make a difference!!

And it is apparant, that, islamic Republic,is commited to invest in all sports,( some may say,for poletical reasons),and is aiming for success.

But, when we put two and two together, we may ask ourseleves, is our football more advanced,Internationaly,than our other sports,that no longer needs forign coaches ?

[Adesor Vafaseya]

well you don see that sort of "Hasheeyeh" that we have in football in other sports such as basketball, volleyball etc...
I have never seen Iranian papers writing that sort of rumours and gossips about volleyball, futsal than what they do everyday on our football...

More attention is paid to football federation but yet its is the most un-organized one among other disciplines.

what can I say... I hope this stops one day...

[Ali Chicago]

Agha Bahram,

It is more than just the head coach. It is more the head of federation and as Adesor khan said the whole Hashieh issue.If you follow the Volleyball case, you see that the head of volleyball federation was Yazdani Khorram. He put a program in place several years ago and eventually, brought all these successes in Iran (part of it were Serbian coaches). While Iran wasn't doing well in volleyball no one was all over him and TM coach.

Yazdani Khorrram is such a good manager that they brought him from Volleyball to Wrestling now. And since he has come to Wrestling, already there are sign of progress. One of the first things he did, was to put a rigin plan in place for TM selection. Before him a lot of top wrestlers didn't wrestle in selction matches. Now that is a distant issue.

I think Mahshoon (who himself was a former TM playes )somewhat has a similar role in Basketball.

Also you should know, the amount of money and organization other Asian teams put in Basketball and Volleyball isn't comparable with their football.

You liven in US right? Imagine making the USA national team say in Ping Pong (Table Tennis) is tough but not imposssible for a good athelet. Imagine trying to get to USA National Basketball team or Swimming or Track and field. Almost impossible. The point is the comaparison is somewhat skewed.
I still agree a good forigne coach is good, but not just getting anyone who happens to be not born in Iran. Plus until the Federation has a good organization in place (namely a good technical comittee in place) to oversee the forigne TM coach, that forigen coach can screw us, get his money and if we are not successful simplay leaves (like someone who didn't bother to come back to Iran and try to talk about his decision during the WC)

[zzgloo]

Ali agha .....( See,!,I am calling you agha,too, how does that sound ? )
I agree with you,that football is different,and as adesor noted,it has HASHIEH,...but, there is this thing about football,that since we have some history,and some legioners, we are among the elite,and we can do with our own coaches...............which in fact, our football is in far worst shape than our basket ball or vollyball..............
Our football, is not our wrestleing.....in wrestleing,we have same stature as Brazil does in football..............but, football, we need to come to the reality,that 15 year old federation 700 thousand papulation bahrain still worry us.............................
One, other issue,I want your opinion on,is about the old yugoslavia.....
have you noticed, in all sports,internationaly, Coretia and serbia, have something to say, at high level of all sports ?
it seems, if is Tennis,basketball, football, tracks, etc,you name it, these two countries have talents...........they have high class coaches almost in all sports.....................why is that ? for such small countries ?.....if it was because of system,why other old commenist countries are not like them?
Any way, I hope ,you also have noticed that,and have better explanation for it than I do.

[gol_kuchik]

Our Volly- ball team, got thier Bronz medal in the world, last mounth,being coached by a forign coach.
Our Basketball team, became, asian Champs,also last mouth,being coached by a forign coach.
our No-javanan vollyball,right now in mexico, playing in the finals for the world championship,useing a forign coach.

.....

One correction ZZ jan,
Our Junior V-Ball team (meaning Under 21) which took the Bronze in
Morocco is coached by Mr.Karkhaneh. In fact the entire coaching staff
(trainer, doctor ...) are Iranian.

I think the main reason vball did well, was because there is not that much
money involved and therefore much less Hasheeheh as pointed out. Also the athletes are
playing the game for the love it more than anything else (compare that to
Football).

I don't know about Basketball, but since I follow Volleyball very closely:

--There has been good investment in Volleyball
--The managers/coaches are left alone and since there is little money as I mentioned,
they instead of NON professional make important decisions. (Compare that again
with Football).
--Of course the youth manger (the one which just won the championship) has
coached the best team in the world (Russia) for many years. That's
like saying you get Lippi to coach our TM.
--Volleyball needs a lot less investment and is much less complex game than
football.
--You don't notice much of EGO in Volleyball players (did you see how
frequently the players are subed in and out, without a foss )?

[zzgloo]

One correction ZZ jan,
Our Junior V-Ball team (meaning Under 21) which took the Bronze in
Morocco is coached by Mr.Karkhaneh. In fact the entire coaching staff
(trainer, doctor ...) are Iranian.

I think the main reason vball did well, was because there is not that much
money involved and therefore much less Hasheeheh as pointed out. Also the athletes are
playing the game for the love it more than anything else (compare that to
Football).

I don't know about Basketball, but since I follow Volleyball very closely:

--There has been good investment in Volleyball
--The managers/coaches are left alone and since there is little money as I mentioned,
they instead of NON professional make important decisions. (Compare that again
with Football).
--Of course the youth manger (the one which just won the championship) has
coached the best team in the world (Russia) for many years. That's
like saying you get Lippi to coach our TM.
--Volleyball needs a lot less investment and is much less complex game than
football.
--You don't notice much of EGO in Volleyball players (did you see how
frequently the players are subed in and out, without a foss )?

I stand corrected..........thanks.
I agree with your points about V-ball...............indeed, the No-javanan,did a magnificent Job................,and this serbian coach needs to be appriciated.

[Ali Chicago]

I posted this in the main forum and thought it is relevant.

A lot of you probably are surprised by this, but the volleyball renewal in Iran started about 15-20 years ago with a guy called Yazdani Khorram as the head of Volleyball fedeation. They brought a guy called Boganeeyook who at that time went to Junior high schools and picked taller guy and tested them for sport abilities. For those who follow volleyball in Iran probably heard of guys like Torkashvand and Behname Mahmoodi.or Iraj Mozaffari. I beleive these two guys are among the first students of Booghaneeyhook.

At that time, Iran wasn't a name even in Asia in Volley ball, beating a Korean or Japaneese or a Chineese team in Asia was close to a Miracle.

I think then they brought a Japaneese coach who was called Matsoo Motto or something like that. That guy I heard was very disciplined. These guys helped to develope our local coaches like Mr. Karkhaneh, Iraj Mozafari, Khojasteh, etc. etc.

Don't want to bore you guys with all these history lesson, but point is Yazdani Khorram as a great federation head sow the seeds of a great volleyball for Iran almost 20 years ago. He didnt' make a lot of noise and was under the radar but he brought in good coaches and for a while he didn't care that we are not winning, he invested. Rest is history now.

Our youth I think it is u19 came second in the world (below Poland maybe). Our U21 came third in the world (that is world not Asia) in Morroco. Our Senior team cleanly beats, China, Asia, Japan in Asia. And hopefully, if we continue like this, soon these youger guys will come to our senior team and we will be a force to reckon with at Senior level as well.

Moral of the story is to have a good head of federation who beleive in long term planning , work without a lot of noise and have patient. We need to invest in our youth and improve our coaching staff.

Lot of folks, it is very simple to bring a forign coach and things will be fixed. I am afraid it is a very simplistic view. Until the federation head doesn't beleive in long term planning, until he is ready to go on the limb and tell the people that we need to take a few short term losses in order to make a bright future, a forigne coach alone won't help. As soon as there are any set backs, head coach comes under fire in Media and by masses and next thing foriegn head coach is gone. Federation head, sport infrastrucutre and long term sport plan is the key.

[purple_haze]

I posted this in the main forum and thought it is relevant.

A lot of you probably are surprised by this, but the volleyball renewal in Iran started about 15-20 years ago with a guy called Yazdani Khorram as the head of Volleyball fedeation. They brought a guy called Boganeeyook who at that time went to Junior high schools and picked taller guy and tested them for sport abilities. For those who follow volleyball in Iran probably heard of guys like Torkashvand and Behname Mahmoodi.or Iraj Mozaffari. I beleive these two guys are among the first students of Booghaneeyhook.

At that time, Iran wasn't a name even in Asia in Volley ball, beating a Korean or Japaneese or a Chineese team in Asia was close to a Miracle.

I think then they brought a Japaneese coach who was called Matsoo Motto or something like that. That guy I heard was very disciplined. These guys helped to develope our local coaches like Mr. Karkhaneh, Iraj Mozafari, Khojasteh, etc. etc.

Don't want to bore you guys with all these history lesson, but point is Yazdani Khorram as a great federation head sow the seeds of a great volleyball for Iran almost 20 years ago. He didnt' make a lot of noise and was under the radar but he brought in good coaches and for a while he didn't care that we are not winning, he invested. Rest is history now.

Our youth I think it is u19 came second in the world (below Poland maybe). Our U21 came third in the world (that is world not Asia) in Morroco. Our Senior team cleanly beats, China, Asia, Japan in Asia. And hopefully, if we continue like this, soon these youger guys will come to our senior team and we will be a force to reckon with at Senior level as well.

Moral of the story is to have a good head of federation who beleive in long term planning , work without a lot of noise and have patient. We need to invest in our youth and improve our coaching staff.

Lot of folks, it is very simple to bring a forign coach and things will be fixed. I am afraid it is a very simplistic view. Until the federation head doesn't beleive in long term planning, until he is ready to go on the limb and tell the people that we need to take a few short term losses in order to make a bright future, a forigne coach alone won't help. As soon as there are any set backs, head coach comes under fire in Media and by masses and next thing foriegn head coach is gone. Federation head, sport infrastrucutre and long term sport plan is the key.

Very good post Ali jan, right on the money.

[gol_kuchik]

Regardless of the sports I think these are the ingridients that makes up for success:

-Talent pool
If you have everything else (below), but don't have the talent you will be like Tennis
program in England No accomplishment while everything else seems perfect.
--Interest
If you have the talent, but no interest. I think blacks in general and ice hockey are
a perfect example here. Like Football, Baseball, Baskeball they could kick some
arse if they wanted to play ice hockey but they are simply not interested.
--Investment/Management
Now then, that can explain the difference between the success of Football in Europe,
where I really dont think Italian are any better than us, in terms of interest or talent as
evident by our crushing their Vball team a few months back in Juniors championship,
or France just now, but strictly due to investment/management factor which also controls
coaching and planing where we suck and they do a lot better.

[zzgloo]

I realy believe, the main reasons for all these successes, are nothing but The Islamic Republic of Iran !!
I know, The IRI,is not as suffisticated as old soviet Union, but never the less, they are doing what they used to do.
Remmember, the soviet dominance in all sports ? remmeber the little island of Cuba,being great in Volly ball, werstleing, track and field,etc ?
Not only,islamic republic is investing heavily in sport, not only, in today's iran, on TV,you have from south american leagues games to European hand ball,to new games in Iran,from grass snow boarding, some games I can't even spell thier names ,/...and all have forign coaches...
It not only serves as islamic success propaganda, but also, it gives something to do to millions of young people whom other wise have nothing to do, and it certainly occupies TV time, when after GHERAATE GHORAAN, there is nothing else to show.
Why els, all of the sudden there are more than 100 forign coaches in Iran, in different sports, players getting paid 2 to 3 hundred thausand dollars, where economy is so F..ked up, and millions in poverty?
Why els,so many teams,football teams afford to spend so much,when the country's slogan is ," Not to waist " ? there are no private section in Iran !,all is paid, by the government !, the Saipa, saba battery,pas,etc, all !!
It is all part of the islamic republic show !!

[gol_kuchik]

I realy believe, the main reasons for all these successes, are nothing but The Islamic Republic of Iran !!
I know, The IRI,is not as suffisticated as old soviet Union, but never the less, they are doing what they used to do.
Remmember, the soviet dominance in all sports ? remmeber the little island of Cuba,being great in Volly ball, werstleing, track and field,etc ?
Not only,islamic republic is investing heavily in sport, not only, in today's iran, on TV,you have from south american leagues games to European hand ball,to new games in Iran,from grass snow boarding, some games I can't even spell thier names ,/...and all have forign coaches...
It not only serves as islamic success propaganda, but also, it gives something to do to millions of young people whom other wise have nothing to do, and it certainly occupies TV time, when after GHERAATE GHORAAN, there is nothing else to show.
Why els, all of the sudden there are more than 100 forign coaches in Iran, in different sports, players getting paid 2 to 3 hundred thausand dollars, where economy is so F..ked up, and millions in poverty?
Why els,so many teams,football teams afford to spend so much,when the country's slogan is ," Not to waist " ? there are no private section in Iran !,all is paid, by the government !, the Saipa, saba battery,pas,etc, all !!
It is all part of the islamic republic show !!

For the longest time IRI was looking the other way when it came to drugs. To me, it was strange that people could
get arrested for showing their hair, yet if you went to some well known places like
Park Laleh or Maydoon Mohseni, you could simply sell/buy drugs at any time
with no consequenc. (I saw this with my own eyes).

But if they are now trying to get people to focus on sports that's good in my book, regardless of the motivation. The old soviet system had substantial sports facilities, so if they are trying to emulate U.S.S.R then that means they have to build good sports facilities and promote sports.

While they may reap benefit from this in terms of postivie advertisement, this
will also enhance peoples interest in sports. I am sure now that VBALL team
has created such honor, many young people will want to take that sport.

The more people wanting to play Volleyball and basketball instead of using
drugs the better.

[Ali Chicago]

......
It not only serves as islamic success propaganda, but also, it gives something to do to millions of young people whom other wise have nothing to do, and it certainly occupies TV time, when after GHERAATE GHORAAN, there is nothing else to show.
Why els, all of the sudden there are more than 100 forign coaches in Iran, in different sports, players getting paid 2 to 3 hundred thausand dollars, where economy is so F..ked up, and millions in poverty?
Why els,so many teams,football teams afford to spend so much,when the country's slogan is ," Not to waist " ? there are no private section in Iran !,all is paid, by the government !, the Saipa, saba battery,pas,etc, all !!
It is all part of the islamic republic show !!

Bahram jaan,

Don't mean to turn this into politics, but I think all of this (heavy investment in sport coaches, opening new sport complexes 14 new one will be opened on 15th of Shabban (tavallod Imam Mehdi)), in big part is due to Oil prices going up to 70 dollars. As long as the price of oil is hight IRI will be able to get money, buy military stuff and spend. Look at the Sahame Edalat program and all of the low interest loans by the government to lower class.

So the party will continue until oil price is high. Now, if oil prices go low (which isn't very likely due to oil shortage in the world), all of a sudden government willl be in huge and I mean huge trouble.

I listend to a well known American schoolar and he was talking about how the crash of oil prices in 80s contributed to the demise of the Sovite Union. Soviet Union heavily subsidised soical porgram, health, housing, etc, etc. inside their country. Well the oil prices dropped, all of those subsidies couldn't contiune. I am not saying Sovite Union collapsed just for this reason, but this had a huge impact.

The new oil revenue has created a young aggresive geneartion of capitalists who are well connected with Sepahe Pasdaran as well and aggresively going after the market of the former Asian Repulbic of Soviet Union, Venezuella, Cuba, Lybia, Syria to expand their market.

Anyhow there is a lot of new revenue source for IRI due to higher oil prices, so we shouldn't be surprised the suddern rush of investment in Sport.

[zzgloo]

For the longest time IRI was looking the other way when it came to drugs. To me, it was strange that people could
get arrested for showing their hair, yet if you went to some well known places like
Park Laleh or Maydoon Mohseni, you could simply sell/buy drugs at any time
with no consequenc. (I saw this with my own eyes).
But if they are now trying to get people to focus on sports that's good in my book, regardless of the motivation. The old soviet system had substantial sports facilities, so if they are trying to emulate U.S.S.R then that means they have to build good sports facilities and promote sports.
While they may reap benefit from this in terms of postivie advertisement, this
will also enhance peoples interest in sports. I am sure now that VBALL team
has created such honor, many young people will want to take that sport.
The more people wanting to play Volleyball and basketball instead of using
drugs the better.
One point though, we can't have it both ways: If we fail in football and
everyone says we did because IRI does not want to see us happy, then
this win certainly creates an anomoly. no?

gol-kochik jaan.................you are very right, as being good in sport is by no means negative !!.............
I never believed that IRI wanted our football to fail....what we see,is thier naive way of manageing football federation.............it is not that they do not do thier best, it is that thier best,is not good enough !!, just like any other sector in Iran.

[zzgloo]

Bahram jaan,
Don't mean to turn this into politics, but I think all of this (heavy investment in sport coaches, opening new sport complexes 14 new one will be opened on 15th of Shabban (tavallod Imam Mehdi)), in big part is due to Oil prices going up to 70 dollars. As long as the price of oil is hight IRI will be able to get money, buy military stuff and spend. Look at the Sahame Edalat program and all of the low interest loans by the government to lower class.
So the party will continue until oil price is high. Now, if oil prices go low (which isn't very likely due to oil shortage in the world), all of a sudden government willl be in huge and I mean huge trouble.
I listend to a well known American schoolar and he was talking about how the crash of oil prices in 80s contributed to the demise of the Sovite Union. Soviet Union heavily subsidised soical porgram, health, housing, etc, etc. inside their country. Well the oil prices dropped, all of those subsidies couldn't contiune. I am not saying Sovite Union collapsed just for this reason, but this had a huge impact.
The new oil revenue has created a young aggresive geneartion of capitalists who are well connected with Sepahe Pasdaran as well and aggresively going after the market of the former Asian Repulbic of Soviet Union, Venezuella, Cuba, Lybia, Syria to expand their market.
Anyhow there is a lot of new revenue source for IRI due to higher oil prices, so we shouldn't be surprised the suddern rush of investment in Sport.

The oil has something to do with it, but not much !!
Why, this oil money is not invested in any other thing ?
why, so many industries are bancropt ?
why, the teachers do not get paid for 6 to 9 mounths ?
why,Roads are so bad, Iran is first in the world,in road fetality ?
why,Tehran's city budget,is less than one million population city in any other country ?
why,we import, GASolin, wheat, sugar,meat,etc, ?
Why,there is 35% unemployment ?
Why, 70% of highschool graduates,can not go to university ?
so many,so many whys .................
..................
the islamic regim, spends money only on what serves its immidiate survival
On , sepahe pasdaran, on tablighate islami,on propaganda( including sport ),on arms, On forign groups that help its interest, etc,....

[Ali Chicago]

The oil has something to do with it, but not much !!
Why, this oil money is not invested in any other thing ?
why, so many industries are bancropt ?
why, the teachers do not get paid for 6 to 9 mounths ?
why,Roads are so bad, Iran is first in the world,in road fetality ?
why,Tehran's city budget,is less than one million population city in any other country ?
why,we import, GASolin, wheat, sugar,meat,etc, ?
Why,there is 35% unemployment ?
Why, 70% of highschool graduates,can not go to university ?
so many,so many whys .................
..................
the islamic regim, spends money only on what serves its immidiate survival
On , sepahe pasdaran, on tablighate islami,on propaganda( including sport ),on arms, On forign groups that help its interest, etc,....

I didn't say Oil money will change our country to a paradise. If it did, it should have happened during the former regime. I was merely talking about the infusion of the cash.

Ahmadi Nezhad government is spending the money on populist programs (like sport and the so called Sahame Edalat) while expeditiing the privatization. Part of the what u listed in a structural problems in Iran, lack of good technocrats in Iran, Economic Embargo, poor work ethic of our work force, etc. etc. . These are structural problems, that u can't just throw money at it. However oil money and expensive oil provided enough cash flow for the government to throw money and subsidzie heavily populist programs (even Gasoline rationing seems to be a long term goal to make sure, if UN and USA put a oil sale sanction in Iran, country won't fall into immidiate crisis).