Afshin Ghotbi has the advantage of being acquainted with our culture and language(obviously!) whilst simultaneously having his training abroad, in a more professional environment.
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Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. -
Yes. A new coach is simply a short term solution.Originally posted by perspolees View Post
If we want real success, we need quality coaches and players being churned out by our league. The basic standards need to be met(ie paying players on time, clubs selling broadcasting rights, adequate training facilities, etc.)Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.Comment
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Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
Here's where I have a diff. approach.
imho focus should be directed to the problem..these this or that coach questions and arguments are irrelevant...
problem has never been, is not and for a long time will not be who the hell our coah was, is or will be!
simple as that!
so theres no situation as such at hand!
with branko we were that
with gn we are this
the this and that will continue only the main thing will stay the same:
we will regress as the world football progresses.. and the two brnko and gn in the big scheme of things will never have a sensible difference!!deerooz, emrooz, farda
zeeremonan sheeshtayeea
The only dynasty of iranian football. ( At least three back to back championships define dynasty, we had more
Team of the people by the people for the people that fills up 100k stadium like its nothing.
Future of true professional football if any in Iran!Comment
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Well, although I agree in some parts, I must say that a good coach is a good short term solution.Originally posted by perspolees View Post
We must aim to secure our football in the long term, whilst not forgetting our short terms goals. Hiring a good coach is important in this...
The question is not one or the other, but, in my opinion, why not both?Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.Comment
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So, what you are saying,is that, we need to do only one at the time, and there no possibility to do both at the time...and hireing a good coach will not let us to focus on IFF and the league ?...is that what you are saying ?Originally posted by perspolees View PostComment
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persi jan. You know this argument has always had me on the other side.Originally posted by perspolees View Post
and I still say the right way to CORRECT our football shd be MULTI-PRONGED. meaning we can have a comprehensive plan, comprising of several short term and some long term solutions that shd be attacked at the same time and not in series. exactly as bahram jan says. we shd not look at our problems one at a time.
football has many facets and factors or divisions, if you may, that need to be attacked SEPARATELY.
what you want is to have a great foundation and infrastructure and then get a good coach for TM.
but I have always argued we can correct some of the sub-sections separately while we strive to better our foundation simultaneously.
knowing Iran and all its issues, I dont think we'll see that kind of foundation and infrastructure that you want anytime soon.
so what shd we do? be happy with lousy coaches and justify it be saying " een taraf ke kharabeh. baghiyeh ro velesh kon !"
coz if we want to sit and wait for great facilities and lovely stadia and excellent foundation and youth system and .... , we gotta wait a loooooooong long time !
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and loooooooooooooooooooooooong time we shall wait simply because we do not have infra structure.Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Postpersi jan. You know this argument has always had me on the other side.
and I still say the right way to CORRECT our football shd be MULTI-PRONGED. meaning we can have a comprehensive plan, comprising of several short term and some long term solutions that shd be attacked at the same time and not in series. exactly as bahram jan says. we shd not look at our problems one at a time.
football has many facets and factors or divisions, if you may, that need to be attacked SEPARATELY.
what you want is to have a great foundation and infrastructure and then get a good coach for TM.
but I have always argued we can correct some of the sub-sections separately while we strive to better our foundation simultaneously.
knowing Iran and all its issues, I dont think we'll see that kind of foundation and infrastructure that you want anytime soon.
so what shd we do? be happy with lousy coaches and justify it be saying " een taraf ke kharabeh. baghiyeh ro velesh kon !"
coz if we want to sit and wait for great facilities and lovely stadia and excellent foundation and youth system and .... , we gotta wait a loooooooong long time !
and lllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooonger if we think that the coaching factor is of any significance for tm and now....rather than at least understanding that giving all of this dough to a foreigner to come and go and perform like GN did is just waste of time and money...they are all destined to fail! gn, denizli, hiddink, kapello,etc. etc...
with this recipe and belief we will never get there!
every single piece has to be in harmony with the other
every thought to become reality needs hard work and plannig.
The cure is never hiring a great coach for tm...has never been and will never be for a long time, for that our short term history on this board is the witness! nothing has changed drastically!!
this issue of foreign coach and then vatani and then foreign coach has been in the past and mark my words will be in the future used only for political gains of the iff and baraye inke mardomo donbale nokhod siyah beferestand...watch the next iff head..( getting rid of gn and hiring a foreigner perhaps !!
hala shoma ya donbaleroye nokhod siyahi ya belakhare ino meebeeni...I am sure one day you will see the matrix!!
we go up and down based on essentially two things:
players talent and performance at any given time that is never persistant
and
draw of the luck!
so why bang on the coach issue!!?
Ofcourse everything is multifactorial, but they are hardly ever seperate when you wat to put a plan to succeed..one feed from another and they go in a harmonious chain reaction.
we do need short term, midterm, longrterm plans, in none of these plans if the idea is to succeed hiring this coach or that for tm is of any significance and can be for a long time to come...thatsdeerooz, emrooz, farda
zeeremonan sheeshtayeea
The only dynasty of iranian football. ( At least three back to back championships define dynasty, we had moreTeam of the people by the people for the people that fills up 100k stadium like its nothing.
Future of true professional football if any in Iran!Comment
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to remind you of your own statement in the other thread, didnt you use the 98 WC games as an example of our best football offered ?Originally posted by perspolees View Post
who was responsible for that?
what kind of facilities and infrstrctr did we have then?
do you mean to say our foundation and facilities were very good by 98 and that's why we performed so well?
but seriously, didnt Ivic have a SIGNIFICANT role in how we surprised ourselves and the world by beating USA and going toe to toe with the giants of europe ( at the time ), yugoslavia ? ... and even germany ?
dont you think it was Ivic's effect ?
in fact , this example of IVIC's significance, can be used to prove good TM coaches CAN improve our football. but that, I agree, is a short term plan.
at the same time, we MUST improve the peripheral and supporting areas of our football also to make any leaps forward by using coaches, SUSTAINABLE and long lasting. this is the long term plan and more fundamental side of the coin.
both plans can run concurrently and simultaneously. and SHOULD, in my opinion.Comment
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Perspolees Jaan...............Originally posted by perspolees View Post
It seems , you are looking at this, alittle in absolutes !!
We need to come to accept,that we are not some other countries, as we are IRAN with all our antiques !!
I know,it is frustrating,but you can not milk the male cow !!
Planning, organization,long term,infur-struture,etc,etc.....are, new Ideas for our culture, and any attemp to do those, will be ,on the job training,and an elementary attemp.................as simple as that !!
have you ever heard that Joke, which talks about ,what happends in iranian " Hell " ??............when there is " GHIR,there is no Ghif, when there is Ghif, there is no Satl, where is there is satl, there is no hendler ""............
this is what we are !!!!!!!!!!!!
Indeed, may be haveing the good coach,is the best thing we can do, as he can cover-up, all over short comeings, and pretend, we are organized.Comment
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Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
I think of people that bang on teh coach issue as obsolete and inconsiderate of Iran and its suitation!!
In Iran without the organization and base work things will not happen, our talent could compensate for some of this but not all.
Our football will not change without base work this coach and that coach will perform the same under these conditions, as they have and as seen within teh past whatever many years that we watch our tm!deerooz, emrooz, farda
zeeremonan sheeshtayeea
The only dynasty of iranian football. ( At least three back to back championships define dynasty, we had moreTeam of the people by the people for the people that fills up 100k stadium like its nothing.
Future of true professional football if any in Iran!Comment
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Please look at the context that I said that. In response to you claiming our recent timesOriginally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post
as I mentioned before, 98 included the reason for sparks in tm has never been the coach!!
it has been:
luck
inconsistant player performance
98 was because of those two and nothing else that we had a spark.
this issue of foreign coach and then vatani and then foreign coach has been in the past and mark my words will be in the future used only for political gains of the iff and baraye inke mardomo donbale nokhod siyah beferestand...watch the next iff head..( getting rid of gn and hiring a foreigner perhaps !!
hala shoma ya donbaleroye nokhod siyahi ya belakhare ino meebeeni...I am sure one day you will see the matrix!!deerooz, emrooz, farda
zeeremonan sheeshtayeea
The only dynasty of iranian football. ( At least three back to back championships define dynasty, we had moreTeam of the people by the people for the people that fills up 100k stadium like its nothing.
Future of true professional football if any in Iran!Comment
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I say again,and repeat myself......you are thinking in absolute !!Originally posted by perspolees View Post
If, you are aware of what is going on in Iran, and if you are considerate of Iran,and if you are an idealist........you need to push for change of regim !, not IFF, and fundemetal change in Football.......
My frind, they go together, in case you did not know !!
This is what you need to go after,if you realy, realy think about foundations,and do not want to settle with what is at hand.Comment
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Originally posted by perspolees View Post
so, according to you, what is to be done?
shall we wait till our foundation and base is strong and sound , and then attack the more "superficial" aspects of the game like nat'l team coaches?
ok.
lets say we choose to wait.
till when?
2 yrs?
5 yrs?
10?
you know Iran pretty well I presume. you really think 5 yrs or 10 years down the line with this gov't and these problems in the country, any of our shortages is going to be resolved ?
which ones?
lack of youth system?
lack of stadia?
lack of proper & correct attitude among the officials and all the peripheral ppl to the game?
....etc.
ok. lets say 10 yrs down the line ( I know it's almost an impossibility, since we are NOT japan or china. but lets just "IMAGINE & FANTASIZE" ) if we are LUCKY and start serious work TODAY, funnel lots of money and hardwork and personel into the plan, we'd get to the correct levels of infrastructure.
what do we do in the meantime?
10 yrs make do with the likes of GN and MK and ... ?
would YOU, want that?
knowing what it means. which is more losses. falling behind all asian rivals even more. more heart-breaks and more eliminations.
not that bringing the likes of denizli means otherwise. but at least we know the small part of "coaching at TM level" is sort of taken care of .
what do YOU propose.
and plz dont just say we shd have good foundation.
a little more precise and in detail , plz.
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bahram jan. I say even if we push for change of regime ( football shouldnt be the reason for it. Iranian people shd be the reason ), it would take another 5-8 years after that, to see any kind of attention given to the sports befitting of what we need.
the first few years will be spent on rebuilding of the country and football will not ( and shd not ) be a priority.Comment
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Payman jaan.....Perspolees Jaan..........
Let me assume, you guys have not been in Iran lately.
1-You go to buy Bread.....the guy uses his fingers that was just in his nose,and fixes the KHAMIR ..........Do you think, you can dare to say something ?....he will throw you out of his shop.
2-You go to bank........there are 30 bank employees, which 26 of which are on the other side of the counter,behind thier personal tables,some have computer,some going through stamping some papers, and most tables ,the guy is not at his table,in other tables,the employees are getting together and haveing tea together,and other tables,there is no one behind it, and God knows where he is.........and more than 50 to 60 people are in 4 lines ( not a civilized line ),some pushing over the counter to pass others,and some begging the 4 tellers ,for faivor to take care of bussiness........you want balance on your account, you wait,half an hour, then write you info and sign and date a form...then, go to another teller wait for 10 more minutes, and give it to him...them he says, come tommorow,to get your print-out...........( Believe me,I am not exadurating )
3-You go to Shahrdari, to prepare papers to sell your house........
, There is not enough space here for me to explain to you what happened to me,during 10 consacetive days,and crying and begging, and bribbing, and HERAST,and darboon, etc,etc,etc.........the most heard comment,is " COME BACK NEXT WEEK " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4-you go to streets, there are thousands of thousands,unfinished projects, ..form asphalts to pipes,to electricity, to water, to side walk, to abandened buildings,etc,etc,etc.
....................
the country is ****ED UP!!
The organizations are totaly redicules.....the manegment, is worse than, non-existance...........Bribery,theft, charkh la sang andakhtan, non-attendance of employees,non-accountabilities, party bazi, famil Bazi, no production, etc,etc,etc,..............................
Perspolees Jaan, THE IFF, may be the best maneged,best founded, best organized, organization there is in IRAN.
Some body told me, with the traffic in tehran...if there was any corporate manaegment in Iran......70% of traffic would have been cleared...as, these 70%,are people who are going to places for thier 10 TH or 20 th time, for something you and I do with 2 minutes telephone call,in Europe or USA.Comment
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heh!
bahram jan, dsat roo delam nazar, baradar.
last year I was in Iran ( for a few months, in fact. Had spinal disc prolapse which prevented me from travel & had to stay put for 3 months ! ) and I had to correct a spelling mistake on my nat'l ID.
My good God, a simple correction of a simple "spelling mistake" took almost 2 months !!! believe me, I KNOW it is pathetically khar too khar in Iran and nothing works! the lines, the indifferent officials, the cumbersome and unnecessary paper work, the disgusting work ethics ( or lack thereof ), ... all say one thing:
if we want to wait for the infrastructure and foundation to get corrected, we gotta wait for half a CENTURY !Comment
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