Perspolis - SS-Ahvaz game

[Doctor DOOM]

I watched the game and it was quite an exciting game.

a couple of observations.

1- SS-A plays a very attractive and free flowing football based on a lot of one-touch passing and skills.
in MY opinion, they play the BEST football in the league.
Sepahan's game may be more "efficient" but certainly not as "correct & modern " ( read "European style" ) as SS-A.

what SS-A suffers from is finishing. in today's game they could have finished 5-3 had their finishers been more mature/experienced and a bit forgiving.

I sincerely hope this team is retained for another season with all its players and staff. THIS is how GREAT teams are made.
sustenance and consistency.
with one more league experience under their belt, the youngsters at SS-A will be unparalleled .
Good for the club and Karimi.


2- Khalili's style as a forward which is closer to the european style of football than asian or Iranian.( I made another thread on this.)


3- SS-A deserved at least a point from this game.
they played a better quality of football, altho' pp played a more efficient one with finishers making use of their fewer opportunities.
SS-A played a more progressive football style ( # of correct passes were more than pp's. far more "one-touch" passing than pp as well ) , cleaner football ( half the fouls of pp ), more attacking and aggressive ( more shots on goal 7 to pp's 3 . more corners 7 or 8 to pp's 2 )... all this while playing AWAY in azadi, home of PP !!!
overall a very good game for IPL.

=============

on a side note.
The nosrati incident and foul:
I know this is the Fifa rule, but isnt it a bit UNFAIR to the attacking team?

here's a player having passed the last defender successfully and if no foul is committed, he will surely face the keeper, IN THE BOX, in a 1 on 1 situation and chances of a goal is very high.

then a foul happens.
but is the red card and mere "freekick" OUTSIDE the box, while the defending team has time to make a 10 man wall in front of the kicker fare ?
I dont think so.
This rule always bothered me.

I know many teams rather have a more "similar situation" awarded to them than a red card and a freekick.
maybe a penalty.
or a 1 on 1 with the keeper from the place of the foul with the other team lined BEHIND the attacker ( not in front of him ).
something.
becoz as you see, in pro football teams would rather concede a red card than a goal. that's why defenders are given such orders.

why shd the rule favor the team that FOULS than the team that had a chance to score ?

[Paradigm]

Dr D I completely agree with you on the issue regarding the red card and SS-A playing the attractive and free-flowing football.

By the way, I still can't digest the fact that Foolad with 5-6 TM starters only 2-3 years ago did not survive in the IPL but SS-A (the weaker team back then) is live and going so strong.

[maij]

There more than one teams that plays good one touch modern football that one can imagine in Iran. Sepahan , SS Ahvaz and even Zob Ahan are the one that have impressed me this season.

I think the fair result would have been a draw , but then again who said football is fair ???

I always say and maintain this theory . Great teams like Perspolis always have the edge. There pedigree and sense of supremacy , their hunger for winning , their pride and many more factors , gives them that slight edge that only champions have.... I dont feel sorry for SS Ahvaz , although they were brilliant (but not brilliant enough to beat a champion pedigree) simply because they misses soooooo many scoring chances......AND you know what happens in football when you miss so many chances ,,,,,,,


I agree with the Doc regarding the professional foul. It is one of those unfair rulings...but then again , there is no guarantee that the p;layer will score !!!!

My take on the scene was the fact that Nosrati , once again , showed how exposed he is against clever forwards.....

[Doctor DOOM]

once again, Majid jan is right on the money.
Spot on on the issue pf "pedigree" and "champion material".
usually teams that have this character prevail against even better teams !
and those top quality teams ( but new ) usually fail at the last hurdle due to the lack of this character.

teams like ss and pp, HAVE this character, due to their tradition of winning leagues and cups for ages.
even when they play the poorer football, this character sustains their momentum and desire. and more often than not it boosts them to victory.

today was such a day.
SS-A for all its quality and modern football and other crucial ingredients, lacked ONE thing and one thing only: experience and this winning character.

That's why we see a valencia team that plays far better football, loses to a crappy bayen in a european final. becoz bayern is USED TO WINNING. it comes naturally to them.
whereas smaller teams , despite their high quality shd "accept/believe they can win" even against bigger teams and ought to get used to it.
we all can come up with a gazillion examples of how smaller but better teams have faltered in the last moment to let in a poorer but bigger team win !

This character shd be harvested in our TM also. It has been sometime since we really dominated asia and WON !
I fear our players , inspite of their talent and skills, lack that "winner or champ mentality". hence the losses in semifinals and ... !


==============

paradigm jan, to answer you on the foolad issue:
I suspect much of that championship was due to the solid groundwork ( in terms of team tactics and structure. as for "players", it is due to Vingo's efforts, however ) laid down by Luka the season before.
Mladen was there to cash in the check with not much of an input, I believe.

But I guess foolad's crumble was due to many factors.
one was sudden "pulling off the rug from under them" by the govt' which suspended their funds and budget.... for no apparent f**king reason whatsoever !!!!
one would think gov't would REWARD them for achieving such a gigantic task ! huh !

so they had to do with minimal budget ,
let go of their coaches,
luka's effect was wearing thin,
MK's inability to get them to play the same,
mobaali's departure ( very decisive factor ),
inability to retain many of their stars ( soleimani, mirzapoor, sharifinasab, .... ),
too young a team with little experience ( like this season's zob ),
..... etc.
and other factors that made them fall.

[Kaveh]

SS-A plays a class above IPL teams, they only lack maturity.
very technical gifted players.

[perspolees]

I am sorry but why would you say the fair result should have been a draw!!?

and always remember they never give cups to a free flowing football that cant finish and get the result..after all Italy won the 82 wc and not brazil, and holland lost the chance twice in a row with some of the most exciting football there was!
football has many aspects to it and playing pretty may be fantastic for the fams, but NO GREAT COACH and team HAS EVER CLAIMED THE GOAL TO BE PRETTY!!

BACK TO SS-A
On one side you have a chicken of a team that could not breathe towards the last ten minutes of the game and brings in a defensive mid to hold the score and on the other hand you have ten man persepolis that rips the woodwork with free kicks and brings in a forward to take it all home despite being 10!!
they ran and closed the gaps and did not give the oponent any space and took advantage of their game plan, organization, focus and desire to win..simple as that! and that is million miles above and beyond playing pretty!! or free flowing football, etc..koudos to persepolis and the technical staff for the job well done..

on a side note:
Meydavoodi and Bigdeli have an amazing potential and I believe they will be in tm and transfered out to big money pretty soon...

[maij]

I am sorry but why would you say the fair result should have been a draw!!?

.

I say so ........

...And I don't expect for a minute for a Perspolis fan to agree.......

People have different perspective in football , some like to see a good football , some like to see value for the money , some enjoy individualist skillful players who love to dribble , some want results and some don't care less for what they see as long as there are 22 players kicking a ball around ( Ali Asghari football) not to forget those who passionately enjoy , love and worship a team regardless to the style of play, position in the table or success of the team.



Perhaps that is the beauty of this sport ..the variety that it can provide to the masses. There is no rules dictating choice or opinion....When I believe that the result is fair , it is the way I see and believe in it.....you are free to offer your own version.

Good example you provided. Brazil of WC82.

The best ever entertaining football by a team that I experienced in my lifetime , yet that team lost to probably the most boring of the 32 teams. BUT.... to me and perhaps millions other than me , the real Champ was BRAZIL.

If it was all about results , I would have abandoned my passion and love for Team Melli , decades ago.

[zzgloo]

Esteghlal ahvaz....we can tell,thier last year success was no fluke !
and thier coaching staff is doing something right for sure...
but as far as perspolise goes, in last 4 games, the MVP has been Karim bagheri, as he seems to be grsping Ghotbi's system better then the others, and has reinvented himself late in his football life.
I can't wait for the return match of these two teams !!

[Ali Chicago]

Only saw portion of the game, but EsEs Ahwaz if really want to be a contender needs a good goalie. Is this Salari guy, their first goalie? With a goalie like that, no matter how well the team playes, they won't get far.

[Libertine]

perspolis style is the difference

look at how they use the flanks, both full backs overlapping (sheys and nouri) the midlfielders to supply the crosses

the majority of perspolis goals have come from passes and crosses from the flanks from nouri, niktbakt and sheys.

there football is simple and direct, keep the ball on the floor, use the flanks, get the full back to support the Right Mid and Left Mid


ahvaz on the other hand are quiet exiciting individually, yeh there finishing lets them down, in front of goal some of the ahvaz players were too greedy and instead of laying the ball off for a simple tap in tried to shoot from silly angles instead

but firooz has done a good job at ss ahvaz, like he did at sepahan

[The-Red]

last year for the most of the season Perspolis was playing the best football in the league and we were not getting the results...but people were saying well this is fair because Perspolis doesn't take thier chances,,,now and all of a sudden a shahrestani team comes to tehran, plays good football, misses maybe one or two more chances than Perspolis but loses and they deserve a point??
Perspolis took the risk and went forward and ss ahvaz played for a tie despite being a man down...that to me doesn't say much about courage on the part of ss ahvaz or deserving a point for that matter.!!! maybe I am bias!

[perspolees]

I say so ........

...And I don't expect for a minute for a Perspolis fan to agree.......

People have different perspective in football , some like to see a good football , some like to see value for the money , some enjoy individualist skillful players who love to dribble , some want results and some don't care less for what they see as long as there are 22 players kicking a ball around ( Ali Asghari football) not to forget those who passionately enjoy , love and worship a team regardless to the style of play, position in the table or success of the team.



Perhaps that is the beauty of this sport ..the variety that it can provide to the masses. There is no rules dictating choice or opinion....When I believe that the result is fair , it is the way I see and believe in it.....you are free to offer your own version.

Good example you provided. Brazil of WC82.

The best ever entertaining football by a team that I experienced in my lifetime , yet that team lost to probably the most boring of the 32 teams. BUT.... to me and perhaps millions other than me , the real Champ was BRAZIL.

If it was all about results , I would have abandoned my passion and love for Team Melli , decades ago.

actually we all want the same thing!
beautiful football but also WINNING
we want them both, we all do, so no there's no different perspective here we want them both...the more important thing again for majority is winning, we have actually a diagnosis for people who dig losing!! are negative and always point fingers...
so that siad back to the topic

why a draw was fair?

I gave you my logic:

On one side you have a chicken of a team that could not breathe towards the last ten minutes of the game and brings in a defensive mid to hold the score and on the other hand you have ten man persepolis that rips the woodwork with free kicks and brings in a forward to take it all home despite being 10!!
they ran and closed the gaps and did not give the oponent any space and took advantage of their game plan, organization, focus and desire to win..simple as that! and that is million miles above and beyond playing pretty!! or free flowing football, etc..koudos to persepolis and the technical staff for the job well done..




forget about being a fan or not, I mean after all it is easy for you to say that I cant see it because I am a fan, but were the above facts or not!? and if they were why would eses ahvaz deserve a draw!!? just because for some minutes of the game they portrayed PRETTY football?!! there is no logic in that forgive me for saying so but there absolutely is none!

As I said above to me also the Brazil of 82 was georgeous!! teh most beautiful football ever, but so was their loss to a team like Italy a big dagger in my heart, and million others and no one dug that!! with all due respect the champs were italians because brazilians were dumb founded...being dumb and blonde and curvacious is good and exciting up to the point that you have to listen to them talk and try to do something sensible...beauty makes up the way but just to a point!!

[purple_haze]

EsEs-A surely plays great entertaining football and credit to them and their coachng staff. But, one thing that should be considered is that the same factor that makes them entertaining and spectacular is also making them vunerable and this applies to Zob Ahan too.
What both teams have in common is that majourity of their players are young (therefore speedy) hungry for fame and extremely motivated, specially the motivation part is quadroupled when facing teams like PP and that in AZADI in front of 70k+ fans and millions of TV spectators. These factors makes them go the extra mile, playing out and be the spectacular entertaining units they have been, specially against and in direct comparison to a championship contender. I've said it many times before and I say t again, the motivation factor is a big. big part in sports in generall and particularly in the emotional iranian football.
Ofcourse they enjoy many gifted, technical players who due to their young age, can adapt and excute the tactical game easier than the more matured and formed players.

But at the same time this youth, the age factor that makes them so likable is what hurts them at times too, due to lack of experience.

The greatest of teams are the ones that can master and complete all aspects of the game.

I give you an example for a totally different world, the world of music. In my early days as a musician, I was more focused and interested in the technical aspects of my playing and you could say that I was more concerned in impressing the crowd by flashy, speedy and technical moves on my instrument based on pure theory and technique.
But the words of a great mentor changed my approach. He said playing is like having a conversation. When you start a conversation you don't start it off by shouting. You have to be dynamic, mixing emotion, speed and control, delivering a whole complete package. You have to learn to be cool and speed things down when needed too.

So teams like EsEs-A and Zobahan, young and full of potential are like the young musician who has to learn to deliver the complete package.

[maij]

actually we all want the same thing!
beautiful football but also WINNING
we want them both, we all do, so no there's no different perspective here we want them both...the more important thing again for majority is winning, we have actually a diagnosis for people who dig losing!! are negative and always point fingers...
so that siad back to the topic

why a draw was fair?

I gave you my logic:

On one side you have a chicken of a team that could not breathe towards the last ten minutes of the game and brings in a defensive mid to hold the score and on the other hand you have ten man persepolis that rips the woodwork with free kicks and brings in a forward to take it all home despite being 10!!
they ran and closed the gaps and did not give the oponent any space and took advantage of their game plan, organization, focus and desire to win..simple as that! and that is million miles above and beyond playing pretty!! or free flowing football, etc..koudos to persepolis and the technical staff for the job well done..




forget about being a fan or not, I mean after all it is easy for you to say that I cant see it because I am a fan, but were the above facts or not!? and if they were why would eses ahvaz deserve a draw!!? just because for some minutes of the game they portrayed PRETTY football?!! there is no logic in that forgive me for saying so but there absolutely is none!

As I said above to me also the Brazil of 82 was georgeous!! teh most beautiful football ever, but so was their loss to a team like Italy a big dagger in my heart, and million others and no one dug that!! with all due respect the champs were italians because brazilians were dumb founded...being dumb and blonde and curvacious is good and exciting up to the point that you have to listen to them talk and try to do something sensible...beauty makes up the way but just to a point!!

We could be sitting behind the keyboards to eternity discussing whether the draw was fair or not and never come to a conclusion.... What you portray as FACTS , I consider it purely a POINT OF VIEW , and it it is yours.

At the end of the day , it is a trivial matter in the whole scheme of things. Teams like SS Ahvaz coming to Azadi and playing attractive football is always a breath of fresh air ..... They are a small club from the provinces , hardly supported even at home , yet manage to shake the might of Perspolis or Esteghlal......THIS IS THE ATTRACTION.

As much as people support winners and champions and that is definitely a forgone conclusion , there are those who love to see the minnows , the underdogs , the dark horses give the mighty ones a run for their money.

I completely disagree with your analysis of Esteghlal Ahvaz, especially the part where you said
Quote>
"Just because for some minutes of the game they portrayed PRETTY football?!! "
unquote>

I really find such statement amazing !!!....... and to be honest , I doubt that you would have said the same words about them if they were playing against SS Tehran.

Of course , the fact that you are Perspolis fan is a factor in your judgment , please don't tell me otherwise ....but you must remember that it is because of teams such as SS Ahvaz , that football is becoming attractive in the country and forcing Perspolis and Esteghlal to improve themselves and not just to do the absloute minimum and expect to win matches based on their fans and popularity.

[Doctor DOOM]

"pretty football"?

persi jan, before "pretty" I must say "CORRECT & MODERN" football.
something that you DO NOT see much in IPL, even at your pp.


from one touch passing, to purposeful running, to the seldom-seen ( at IPL ) correct positioning , and finally to pace & energy of a YOUNG team.
where do you see all these at IPL ?

trust me, before one uses the word "pretty", he must admit to "correct football" first.