Perspolis - SS-Ahvaz game

[Ali Chicago]

....

Agha Maji;

I enjoyed reading your logical post. One little footnote that EsEs Ahwaz is very popular (fan base) at home. As a matter of fact most Khuzestani teams enjoy a very solid fan base at their home games. Even during the Shah's time, teams from Masjed Soleyman, Ahwaz, Abadan had their own fans when they played against guest teams from Tehran or whereever. Football has a long established history in Khuzestan and teams like Jaam Abbadan, Kareghar, Taj Abadan, Ahwaz, Masjed Solyeman and Shaheen existed in Khuzestan and enjoyed 100% of fan support.

[Doctor DOOM]

Ali jan, while your remarks on popularity of ss-a or naft or .... rastaakheez ( of shah's time ) hold true, you must admit NOT ALL khuzestani teams enjoyed nor do they today, such popular fan support.

Jonoub ahvaz ( the older avatar of foolad ) was one such team that hardly had any fans and at its best days brought in only a small section of fans to its games which were crowded by the ever popular ss-A fans. even when they actually qualified for asian cup winner cup tourney !

same with foolad. although in their championshop season, they did have some more fan support. but I put it to the neutral fans who float between teams based on the style of football these teams play. and that season, foolad WAS playing pretty classy football. also their chance to win the IPL brought more ahvazi fans to their games than normal.
as soon as they started the next season, most of these fans vanished !

I'd say the REALLY popular teams in khuzestan at the moment are just ss-A & Naft abadan.... only !

[perspolees]

We could be sitting behind the keyboards to eternity discussing whether the draw was fair or not and never come to a conclusion.... What you portray as FACTS , I consider it purely a POINT OF VIEW , and it it is yours.

At the end of the day , it is a trivial matter in the whole scheme of things. Teams like SS Ahvaz coming to Azadi and playing attractive football is always a breath of fresh air ..... They are a small club from the provinces , hardly supported even at home , yet manage to shake the might of Perspolis or Esteghlal......THIS IS THE ATTRACTION.

As much as people support winners and champions and that is definitely a forgone conclusion , there are those who love to see the minnows , the underdogs , the dark horses give the mighty ones a run for their money.

I completely disagree with your analysis of Esteghlal Ahvaz, especially the part where you said
Quote>
"Just because for some minutes of the game they portrayed PRETTY football?!! "
unquote>

I really find such statement amazing !!!....... and to be honest , I doubt that you would have said the same words about them if they were playing against SS Tehran.

Of course , the fact that you are Perspolis fan is a factor in your judgment , please don't tell me otherwise ....but you must remember that it is because of teams such as SS Ahvaz , that football is becoming attractive in the country and forcing Perspolis and Esteghlal to improve themselves and not just to do the absloute minimum and expect to win matches based on their fans and popularity.

now you are talking a different tune
making football attractive and playing football was not the topic of conversation..if you are saying the played a clean game and add to the competition and gave persepolis a real hard time and made teh game attractive..then by all means ! but that was not the topic! the topic was clearly something else please read your own comment! deserving a draw, etc...

every one of us have supported the minnows and underdogs but there is a point! where just supporting losers becomes and issue...clearly not this case and not you maijjan, but the whole world of football speaks the same language fair or not that is FACT! oney talks BS walks, winner takes it all losers have to ..

and no my friend it was not my point of view... you can open any paper or any intelligent comment and you will see that.
a t eam that is a man up subbing in to defend and keep the score does not deserve to be applauded, the team that is man down and subs in to win and does, deserves it all...and if esteghlal or any other team does that they deserve the amen...I am a fan but facts are facts!


what is a "point of view" is the one that I said " for minutes of the game they played good" and you perhaps think otherwise that I respect..

what is a FACT is :
they subeed in to hold even a man up, but we subbed in to win and we did...all logic says aside from colors is simply this:

stand up and clap for this desire and thoughful winning of the game, well deserved...and that is a fact..it did happen..they subbed to hold we went in for te kill man down...

[perspolees]

"pretty football"?

persi jan, before "pretty" I must say "CORRECT & MODERN" football.
something that you DO NOT see much in IPL, even at your pp.


from one touch passing, to purposeful running, to the seldom-seen ( at IPL ) correct positioning , and finally to pace & energy of a YOUNG team.
where do you see all these at IPL ?

trust me, before one uses the word "pretty", he must admit to "correct football" first.

you call it modern I call it pretty does not matter, we are talking the same thing, all and every thing that ahvaz has done persepolis has done as well, this season as far as tactics seeing the holes and positioning nobody is as good as us, thanks to ghotbi...
one touch passing and clean football was not the topic here!!
the topic is relating that to " deserving" a draw or a win!!

clean modern, pretty football or whatever you want to call it means this:


NOTHING IF IT DOES NOT DELIVER

plenty of world footballing events and teams are teh historical witnesses of this

no body is against modern/ clean/ pretty football but if does not deliver then that means that you are ignoring other important facts of the game and that my friend is naive!

[perspolees]

and once again my whole point is that no they did not deserve the point
they maybe wanted ot andplanned for it, but you have to look at it from both sides, on the other side you had a team that would not settle for a draw..

in other words:
if we say that the game deserved a draw then it is even worse and more unfair to underestimate what persepolis did ....a man down bringing in attack to take it all home as opposed to an opponent that is happy and dug in to tie... for that effort and actually sealing it I think persepolis deserved to win

[Doctor DOOM]

persi jan, clearly it is about the age old argument on 2 philosophies:

does the end justify the means?
or is the journey more important than the destination?

SS-A played better quality of football. but where they came short was their finishing.
does that mean they didnt deserve a draw? according to me they did.

[maij]

now you are talking a different tune
making football attractive and playing football was not the topic of conversation..if you are saying the played a clean game and add to the competition and gave persepolis a real hard time and made teh game attractive..then by all means ! but that was not the topic! the topic was clearly something else please read your own comment! deserving a draw, etc...

every one of us have supported the minnows and underdogs but there is a point! where just supporting losers becomes and issue...clearly not this case and not you maijjan, but the whole world of football speaks the same language fair or not that is FACT! oney talks BS walks, winner takes it all losers have to ..

and no my friend it was not my point of view... you can open any paper or any intelligent comment and you will see that.
a t eam that is a man up subbing in to defend and keep the score does not deserve to be applauded, the team that is man down and subs in to win and does, deserves it all...and if esteghlal or any other team does that they deserve the amen...I am a fan but facts are facts!


what is a "point of view" is the one that I said " for minutes of the game they played good" and you perhaps think otherwise that I respect..

what is a FACT is :
they subeed in to hold even a man up, but we subbed in to win and we did...all logic says aside from colors is simply this:

stand up and clap for this desire and thoughful winning of the game, well deserved...and that is a fact..it did happen..they subbed to hold we went in for te kill man down...

Agha Perspolees .... perhaps you missed this part of my argument in this thread:

"I always say and maintain this theory . Great teams like Perspolis always have the edge. There pedigree and sense of supremacy , their hunger for winning , their pride and many more factors , gives them that slight edge that only champions have.... I dont feel sorry for SS Ahvaz , although they were brilliant (but not brilliant enough to beat a champion pedigree) simply because they misses soooooo many scoring chances......AND you know what happens in football when you miss so many chances ,,,,,,,"


Saying that (Perspolis team as a pedigree of championship) does not at any rate means that the opposition are relegated to a bunch of players waiting to be defeated and stop playing attractive football. When a team like Ahvaz excels in playing football such as the match that I saw in front of mighty Perspolis , then such team deserves better......I said that I don't feel sorry for Ahvaz that could not maintain the result and lost it in extra time , but that does not mean that they deserved to lose.....

Apologies, but I could not put it in a better perspective ..... But perhaps what the Doc said

Quote:

SS-A played better quality of football. but where they came short was their finishing.

unquote

Explains a lot in this argument.... Thanks Doc...

[maij]

Agha Maji;

I enjoyed reading your logical post. One little footnote that EsEs Ahwaz is very popular (fan base) at home. As a matter of fact most Khuzestani teams enjoy a very solid fan base at their home games. Even during the Shah's time, teams from Masjed Soleyman, Ahwaz, Abadan had their own fans when they played against guest teams from Tehran or whereever. Football has a long established history in Khuzestan and teams like Jaam Abbadan, Kareghar, Taj Abadan, Ahwaz, Masjed Solyeman and Shaheen existed in Khuzestan and enjoyed 100% of fan support.

Ali Agha .....

I have no doubt that the hot blooded Khuzestanis support their teams , but in reality , the only team that matters out there is Sanat naft...they pulled more crowds in the 2nd division than Foolad in first.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali Agha .....

I have no doubt that the hot blooded Khuzestanis support their teams , but in reality , the only team that matters out there is Sanat naft...they pulled more crowds in the 2nd division than Foolad in first.

Of course Sanat is very popular in Abadan, but not as much in Ahwaz. If you lived in South of Iran, you should know about the rivalry between the cities (for example Abadanis and Masjed Soleymanis don't get along well and so on). So Sanat is very popular in Abadan but not as popular in rest of Khuzestan, and people in those cities cheer for their local team (even in Dezful). EsEs Ahwaz has a very solid fan base. Much more than foolad in Ahwaz.

[perspolees]

persi jan, clearly it is about the age old argument on 2 philosophies:

does the end justify the means?
or is the journey more important than the destination?

SS-A played better quality of football. but where they came short was their finishing.
does that mean they didnt deserve a draw? according to me they did.

that is not the focus here my friend!
how about a balance?
play pretty and wining kept in perspective as much as possible...but if you want to be remebered or lift up the trophy you better win first...plenty of disasterous examples out there..

I disagree that they had a better qualityy of football against persepolis...I think persepolis was as good if not better, certainly better on the bench with right on subs and even better the desire and fire to win even with ten man...so thats why I think ss ahwaz was not better
did they deserve a draw, well I do not want to just repeat myself imho ...no!

[perspolees]

Agha Perspolees .... perhaps you missed this part of my argument in this thread:

"I always say and maintain this theory . Great teams like Perspolis always have the edge. There pedigree and sense of supremacy , their hunger for winning , their pride and many more factors , gives them that slight edge that only champions have.... I dont feel sorry for SS Ahvaz , although they were brilliant (but not brilliant enough to beat a champion pedigree) simply because they misses soooooo many scoring chances......AND you know what happens in football when you miss so many chances ,,,,,,,"


Saying that (Perspolis team as a pedigree of championship) does not at any rate means that the opposition are relegated to a bunch of players waiting to be defeated and stop playing attractive football. When a team like Ahvaz excels in playing football such as the match that I saw in front of mighty Perspolis , then such team deserves better......I said that I don't feel sorry for Ahvaz that could not maintain the result and lost it in extra time , but that does not mean that they deserved to lose.....

Apologies, but I could not put it in a better perspective ..... But perhaps what the Doc said

Quote:

SS-A played better quality of football. but where they came short was their finishing.

unquote

Explains a lot in this argument.... Thanks Doc...

I agree with you as I said in te beginning that the ss-a team put up a great match against us, I think we missed as many chances as well...and I think missing chances does nto qualify a team to win, draw or lose...

we just differ in opinion as to whether or not they deserved a draw.
imho two teams get on the field

1. they get out to win it all
2. they get out there wishing for a draw ( two options here, by all means defend or antifootball to get to what you want , like old italy games..or get out there and play a head on football and hope you come out with a draw...bank on a minute chance of even a win on accidents, etc...)
3. they get out wishing that they will lose ( this category is not within the terms of competitive sports and is not normal as such we will let go of this choice..its sickness depression, vandetta, agenda etc...)

imho again te match is a full 90 minutes a chess game and a full athletic battle all over the pitch...
clearly ss-a was not antifootball
but as clear as that is they did not come out to win it all nor did they play a heads up game TO THE END as they folded in 80th minute even with one man up..for that reason I thought the score was well deserved for both sides...

[xoraster]

Speaking of Esteghlal Ahwaz, how old is Davoud Haghi?

[maij]

Speaking of Esteghlal Ahwaz, how old is Davoud Haghi?

Born 2nd May 1981 which makes him 26 years old