Professionalism!

[zzgloo]

Ali jaan.....this is a very deep,and complecated issue........
1- The vollyball,bascketball...these are new pheniminas, and do not count against tradition of wrstleing and weight-lifiting......
2-the modesty of most Iranians are themseleves,EDDEAA !., it is fake !!
" Ghabeli naderh " is fake,they do not mean it.
" chekeram, mokhlesam,etc, are fake, and do not mean shit.
"In Toos,where ferdosi's memorial is, one can find a small 20 centimeter by 20 centimeter stone,behind, public restroom, where is the grave of " mehdi,akhavan e sales ",as he had asked for,in his will..........; believe me, it is a EDDEA, wraped in a exadurated modesty paper.!!!!
3-Our culture, is that every body has oppinion on every thing,and has suggestion for every body !....Where have you been ? have you not noticed this ?..........Every body is a " Motekaleme Vahdeh " !,......
4- In addition to EDDEAA, we also have what you may call, " TAVVAGHO " which is a by product of EDDEAA, and you must have encountered that.....
have you, or anybody you know, in some dispute with of relatives and other friend ,............if you go through to the core and deep base of all problems amongst us, it is the " TAVVAGHO E BIJA ".
.............................................
To relate our excahnges with today, and the topic of this thread....just look at the situation , now, between ghotbi, and his players , and the Iranian media...............................
Ghotbi previously has said, he would not like to get close to the players, because it is not profesional.....but, he is finding out, in Iran, he needs to ,accomidate the Players' EDDEAA, and be responsive to what they think.
And profesionalism has to wait, untill, players such as Shays and nikbakht,are accomidated !!

[Ali Chicago]

...
Ghotbi previously has said, he would not like to get close to the players, because it is not profesional.....but, he is finding out, in Iran, he needs to ,accommodate the Players' EDDEAA, and be responsive to what they think.
And professionalism has to wait, until, players such as Shays and nikbakht,are accommodated !!

Bahram Jaan;

I reserve the right to go back to the first part of your post later, but for Ghotbi and PP players please consider two things:
First of all, consider our players aren't raised in a pro environment. It has mostly problems but a few advantages. By pro environment, I mean, player who play pro football, since their childhood or at the latest 14 year old (99% of them), played in the youth program of a club, may of them had armature contract etc etc. In Iran, we didn't' have any of that. All of a sudden, 6-7 years ago, thanks to Mr. Dadkan bold step, we had the so called Pro league. So many of these behavior you see is the result of that lack of pro culture. Even these players (Iranian in general) are very fast learners. Remember Azizi and his drama with TM. Nowadays you see our fans, players learned that they need to respect the coaches decision. They grumble but for the most part they follow. This grumbling and discord between play rs and players and coaches is very common in the football. Just follow the current saga between Ronaldinio and Barca and Ricard. Etto's comments, Ronaldinio Etto Quarrel last year. We think our sport papers are bad, read the ACE in Spain that writes about football.
Read English sport papers and grumbling between coaches and players. Read the latest duel of Zi Roberto and Oliver Khan in Germany (since Bayren isn't doing well in the last 5 games). Point is all of these issues are everywhere, but since we are used to put ourselves down and overestimate anything from outside, we magnify our own faults and put ourselves down. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Iran is perfect or a heaven far from that, but so is everybody else.
Ghotbi/players issues for a team at the caliber of PP (as one of the most popular team at the world level or the most popular team at least in Asia) is minuscule.Our players/fans are learning and learning fast. Remember when Abedzadeh went to PP from SS or Hashemi Nasab went to SS from PP. Compare that to Nikki's transfer today. Fans and players both dealt with it much better.

As for the Edda, today there is a several pieces report about Turkey and specifically Istanbul in "The World" on NPR tonight and the following nights. I strongly suggest you listen to it. The World is the BB C's international news that is broad casted in US. You will understand the root cause of some of the cultural issues you brought up (Eddaa).

And finally, if it is about dirty laundry of our family problems, you think in US or Europe these issues aren't there? Watch Jerry Springer's show to see the dirt of the dirt of the American society. Iran's society is having a metamorphism from a traditional society to a semi- (so called) modern. Lot of values and habits are changing. Iran and many developing countries is at a very special moment right now. This transition happed in Europe 100-200 years ago. Keep that in mind.

I strongly suggest you read the book by Dr. Alamdari "Why west progressed and Iran stayed behind". While I don't agree with everything in the book, I think Dr. Kazem Alamdari started a very good discussion. This exchanges between you and I are just another indication that we Iranian need this dialog.

[zzgloo]

Ali E Aziz.........
I always enjoy our exchanges.......and happy new year,by the way !!
what is it we are talking about ?.....if you are saying, people have no fault, and are the product of thier system, then I agree 100%.....and if, you are saying in time, our players become profesional,I agree with that too....
but, if you are saying, We are same as any where-els, I disagree.....as I believe,we are just a little harder nut to crack !!......We are just a little more " MAN ", as " I ", in our blood !!, we are little more " Raees " as " BOSS ", we are little more self centered , and we are little more " EDDEAA " !!
And , if you are saying, not all are like that, I also agree....., but if you say, other cultures have that too, I disagree, as I believe, they do not have it to our extend......if you say some similar issues can be seen in other cultures,I say, not to the extend of ours, as ours, is so wide spread, and exit in every facet of life,every day.If you say, we are used to put ourseleves down, I disagree ............for many reasons : One, because, if we do it, we disclude our personal self out of it !, ( again another Eddeaa,and another "MAN " ),or if we do it, we do that to forigners too, as deep down, we think,we are smarter ( another " Man ").....,
I have met, some Rich Iranian business owners ( They own hand made oriental rug companies in India,pakistan,and china ),which when I asked them ( I meet them in annual shows ), why would n't they open a manufacturing plants in Iran, they say, it is much easier in India,or China, or pakistan.....as they belive, they can not manage in Iran, ....one because the Governmenr interfiers , another because Iranian workers are not manegeble,and are all " Raees ", as they put it !!!..............When you ask them to do the job " A ", they either do not do it, or they do the job " B ".....and when you ask the workers,why did you do the " B "?, and not "A "?, they say, the job "B" is better !!!!!, and they think they found the improvement !!!!!!!

[Ali Chicago]

Ali E Aziz.........
I always enjoy our exchanges.......and happy new year,by the way !!
what is it we are talking about ?.....if you are saying, people have no fault, and are the product of thier system, then I agree 100%.....and if, you are saying in time, our players become profesional,I agree with that too....
but, if you are saying, We are same as any where-els, I disagree.....as I believe,we are just a little harder nut to crack !!......We are just a little more " MAN ", as " I ", in our blood !!, we are little more " Raees " as " BOSS ", we are little more self centered , and we are little more " EDDEAA " !!
And , if you are saying, not all are like that, I also agree....., but if you say, other cultures have that too, I disagree, as I believe, they do not have it to our extend......if you say some similar issues can be seen in other cultures,I say, not to the extend of ours, as ours, is so wide spread, and exit in every facet of life,every day.If you say, we are used to put ourseleves down, I disagree ............for many reasons : One, because, if we do it, we disclude our personal self out of it !, ( again another Eddeaa,and another "MAN " ),or if we do it, we do that to forigners too, as deep down, we think,we are smarter ( another " Man ").....,
I have met, some Rich Iranian business owners ( They own hand made oriental rug companies in India,pakistan,and china ),which when I asked them ( I meet them in annual shows ), why would n't they open a manufacturing plants in Iran, they say, it is much easier in India,or China, or pakistan.....as they belive, they can not manage in Iran, ....one because the Governmenr interfiers , another because Iranian workers are not manegeble,and are all " Raees ", as they put it !!!..............When you ask them to do the job " A ", they either do not do it, or they do the job " B ".....and when you ask the workers,why did you do the " B "?, and not "A "?, they say, the job "B" is better !!!!!, and they think they found the improvement !!!!!!!

Happy new year to you as well and pleasure for exchanges is mutual.
Well history gives everyone enough enough to argue for or against anything. I am not sure quoting a few rich business man opinion about Iran as if running a sweatshop in India or Pakistan is the only road to success is countring my argument. I just say this. Iran after a bloody revolution, 8 years of war where the whole world was almost against them, with the leadership of bunch of Mullahs that didn't know Crap when they came to power, is rising up and catching up in the region. Today, Iran's industry despite all the sanction and religious nutcases who run the country is looking for the market in the region. Where all of this came from? Bunch of people full of Eddea? Who stoold against Iraqi's army, where two months earlier Nozheh Coup de tata had happened and commander of one regiment of 92 Tank division in Ahwaz fled to Iraq and told them exactly where Regiment 1,2,3 of 92nd division where located? When Sepah wasn't even fully formed. Bunch of the socalled People with Edda stood against an up to teeth armed armies in the middle east. Today, Iranian students do very well in Physics, math, Chemistry at the world level, despite not having access to technology and living under one of the most restrictive regimes in the world. Why you go too far, look at our football. With the sheer to sheer situation we have in Iran, the fact that our team competes at the top level of Asia, is nothing but short of miracle by many Iranians (namely our players). All of these are Edda? You yourself are an Iranian, so is many other people I know on this forum (Mansoor, Yashar, Purple Haze, Regina, BehzadB, DD, etc. etc.). All of these people are an Iranian and very logical people with a good head on their shoulder. I said in the other thread about Ghotbi. There are two exterems. One exterem is the Pan Iranists who say anything Iranian is the greatest and Iran is the cause of anything good in the world. The other exterme is anything Iranian is bad and we are bunch of bullshitters, Eddea, etc. etc. I think the truth is somewhere in between. We Iranians as many other third world countries have many problems, lack fo team work, very proud nation, lack of respect for individual rights vs. collective, etc. etc.. But we are not bunch of bullshitters and full of Edda. We demand to get treated better than people around us, cause we know everyone deserves better. If we aren't behaving like bunch of sheeps that people tell us to do this and that and we dont' follow that, is it supposed to be a bad thing?


Bahram jaan, as for your commments about the Iranian carpet sellers mark my words, after the fall of Soviet Union the so called market fundementalisem (As Goerge Sorus put it) and full fledge capitalisem was drunk with success. I hope both of us are alive in 30-40 years and you will see the extermes of today (running sweatshops and call it a success and economic progress) will be a black period in the history.

On that note, let's just close the book on this topic. It seems we can't find common points here. I was hoping the refrences I gave you (both Goerge Soros's book and Dr. Kazam Alamdari's book "Why west went ahead and we stayed behind" provides all the arguments in detail that I tried to make here. Guess we just agree to disagree on this.