so now we got our coach...

[Haf3z]

to continue majid jan's line of thought, I must agree and add that we dont really NEED a Grade A coach ... at least at the moment.

You see, an A grade coach's usefulness is optimized when that region's football is already a top tier one, fully professional and performing at top levels. the likes of wenger, lippi, capello, rajkaard, ... fit well into the football of spain, england, italy, ... . such coaches make full use of the setting and get the best out of that football.

such coaches, even if they somehow lose their sanity and come to Iran, will not be able to perform at such high levels simply becoz the material at their disposal is NOT on par with their abilities. almost every requisite for success by such coaches is absent or is deficient in Iran. well, maybe only talent is on par with the rest of the world. but you cant clap with one hand. talent alone is not enough.

so to cut a long story short, we not only wont get A grade coaches, we dont even need them to begin with. we must concentrate and hope we get good B grade coaches who CAN work with sub par football. who have shown they are more inclined to "build" rather than "make full use". who have an affinity and patience needed for working with half pros and amateurs, dealing with shortcomings & problems, lacks and deficiencies.

if you give a peykan to Schumy, he wont be able to get much out of it and beat a ferrari or even a renault. so why waste money and time ?



having said that, I , by no earthly means, say we shd settle for any crap that comes our way and lower our expectations and standards to mediocrity that happened with branko.
No. but we certainly can have the likes of ivic, ciro, jorge, terim, santini, denizli , ... who CAN deal with all our problems and still have enough in them to ELEVATE our standards ( not stagnate like branko ).

Right on, it's what I've been saying for some time now. It doesn't really matter if we would have Lippi at the helm at the moment, because Lippi is a pro, while Iranian football still isn't!

[maij]

to continue majid jan's line of thought, I must agree and add that we dont really NEED a Grade A coach ... at least at the moment.

You see, an A grade coach's usefulness is optimized when that region's football is already a top tier one, fully professional and performing at top levels. the likes of wenger, lippi, capello, rajkaard, ... fit well into the football of spain, england, italy, ... . such coaches make full use of the setting and get the best out of that football.

such coaches, even if they somehow lose their sanity and come to Iran, will not be able to perform at such high levels simply becoz the material at their disposal is NOT on par with their abilities. almost every requisite for success by such coaches is absent or is deficient in Iran. well, maybe only talent is on par with the rest of the world. but you cant clap with one hand. talent alone is not enough.

so to cut a long story short, we not only wont get A grade coaches, we dont even need them to begin with. we must concentrate and hope we get good B grade coaches who CAN work with sub par football. who have shown they are more inclined to "build" rather than "make full use". who have an affinity and patience needed for working with half pros and amateurs, dealing with shortcomings & problems, lacks and deficiencies.

if you give a peykan to Schumy, he wont be able to get much out of it and beat a ferrari or even a renault. so why waste money and time ?



having said that, I , by no earthly means, say we shd settle for any crap that comes our way and lower our expectations and standards to mediocrity that happened with branko.
No. but we certainly can have the likes of ivic, ciro, jorge, terim, santini, denizli , ... who CAN deal with all our problems and still have enough in them to ELEVATE our standards ( not stagnate like branko ).

Agha Peyaman ..Gol Gofti....

You have explained it very nicely indeed.


EXCEPT for Branko thing..... I don't know , but I have a soft touch for the guy. Maybe because of my various contacts with him and his down to earth attitude. his coolness and his patience.

We all know , that his cautious approach was below our expectation , but then again...I am asking myself this question ..... Maybe the guy knew the quality of the players at his disposal hence his opted to take such such approach...

[Doctor DOOM]

majid jan, chakerim
but without trying to make this thread a branko-thread one, suffice it to say the guy had not enough ambition, was utterly mediocre even if we consider our level and amount of talent , and simply miles out of his league when it came to the WC. miles. not a bit !

there is a fine line between cool and indifferent, between patience and meekness/servitude, between someone being down-to-earth & someone having been served a far bigger meat that was appropriate for his level.

[the-ali]

He was coaching Cameroon in 2005. That wasn't high pressure?

nothing compared to iran for the reasons I have already mentioned

[maij]

majid jan, chakerim
but without trying to make this thread a branko-thread one, suffice it to say the guy had not enough ambition, was utterly mediocre even if we consider our level and amount of talent , and simply miles out of his league when it came to the WC. miles. not a bit !

there is a fine line between cool and indifferent, between patience and meekness/servitude, between someone being down-to-earth & someone having been served a far bigger meat that was appropriate for his level.

Peyman Jan , I agree that enough has been said about Branko era , and I don't disagree about your impression on his aspiration at top level. But , again I ask the question .... Don't you think he had enough experience with Team Melli players for realize that he has some serious limitations on this supposedly talented individuals....emphasis on individuals ???

You have already mentioned that a top professional coach will struggle to come in terms with the status of Iran's football , and a working environment much below the high standard of Europe...So , what could have Branko done in the World Cup better than he did ? An all out attack against the likes of Portugal and Mexico with a leaky defense ??

Anyway , his era is gone......I still think he is one of the most successful coaches of Team melli and his records shows it quite evidently....Perhaps not the ideal coach , but he must have known the limitation on the quality of players he had within his grasp......

[zzgloo]

I am very bad with names.....but there exist some coaches who do not fit those catagories we talked about......
What was his name....the coach who coached Mexico,and costa rica, and then some other countries ( China I guess ), in 12 year span, and took them all to WC ?......
He defenetly was not top class coach, yet, he knew how to work in different cultures, and how to maximize potentials......
he knew, what little mistake all third world countries do,that make them fail to qualify........
The Job of these coaches, ( and there are more like him , Like currant coach of RUSSIA ) .....is not make a team that can beat Germany in WC, but the job is, to make the team qualify to go to WC, in a very weak competition qualification round..such as cocacaf,or asia.......
I call these coaches " The missionaries ", or " handy mans ".

[maij]

I am very bad with names.....but there exist some coaches who do not fit those catagories we talked about......
What was his name....the coach who coached Mexico,and costa rica, and then some other countries ( China I guess ), in 12 year span, and took them all to WC ?......
He defenetly was not top class coach, yet, he knew how to work in different cultures, and how to maximize potentials......
he knew, what little mistake all third world countries do,that make them fail to qualify........
The Job of these coaches, ( and there are more like him , Like currant coach of RUSSIA ) .....is not make a team that can beat Germany in WC, but the job is, to make the team qualify to go to WC, in a very weak competition qualification round..such as cocacaf,or asia.......
I call these coaches " The missionaries ", or " handy mans ".

Bora Milutinović

[zzgloo]

Bora Milutinović

Thanks, yes, Bora !!!
he was not, what you call, top coach, yet he knew how to prepare and demistified football.

[Doctor DOOM]

Peyman Jan , I agree that enough has been said about Branko era , and I don't disagree about your impression on his aspiration at top level. But , again I ask the question .... Don't you think he had enough experience with Team Melli players for realize that he has some serious limitations on this supposedly talented individuals....emphasis on individuals ???

You have already mentioned that a top professional coach will struggle to come in terms with the status of Iran's football , and a working environment much below the high standard of Europe...So , what could have Branko done in the World Cup better than he did ? An all out attack against the likes of Portugal and Mexico with a leaky defense ??

Anyway , his era is gone......I still think he is one of the most successful coaches of Team melli and his records shows it quite evidently....Perhaps not the ideal coach , but he must have known the limitation on the quality of players he had within his grasp......

aakh .
zakhm dobareh baaz shod !
I'll try to be short.


1- the main thing that sticks out is his stubbornness, illogical insistence on wrong decisions even after they were proven wrong. his inexperience. his stupidity to over-rely on a selected few and having let go of ( or be indifferent towards ) the rest of the roster. something that ultimately, bit him in the arse ( injury & loss of form to his selected few ). and many other factors. and worst of all, at the WC he was like fish out of water !!!

2- he is among TM's most LUCKY , especially in his last 2 years. success and branko dont fit when we consider these two years. he was just saved becoz of the VERY easy route of qualification & group. as for "records" and "stats" , well, I think GN had a FAR BETTER record and stat than branko. but I dont see anyone piling accolade on him !

3- granted our infrastructure was/is bad. but we still could have done better than him for the WC.

we must remember we DID and still DO get some high profile coaches ( good B grade ones ) to Iran or at least are ready to come: ivic, ciro, gunes, denizli, jorge, santini, ... .


I think one thing we can take out of TM's branko-experience.
every coach has his limit of usefulness.
once he reaches that limit, it shd be noted and he shd be replaced by fresh ideas, mentality, attitude of the next coach.
to persist on a dead horse, just becoz a year back he was winning races is futile.
branko's last 2 years WERE a total & continuous regress and gradual preparation for the fall.

That's why I am worried about Jorge and any subsequent coach we might have at TM.
have we learned our lessons?
will we still persist when we clearly see the coach has run out of ideas and isnt benefiting the team anymore? or will we cling onto a futile hope that perhaps one day the dead will rise again?
I must say zombies are not a pretty picture to look forward to.

[zzgloo]

aakh .
zakhm dobareh baaz shod !
will we still persist when we clearly see the coach has run out of ideas and isnt benefiting the team anymore? or will we cling onto a futile hope that perhaps one day the dead will rise again?

I think, Branko lacked coaching in leagues....had he done that, he would have been used to use different strategies with different opponants,....
Coaching in leagues,divercifies coaches play book

[Doctor DOOM]

ironically, bahram jan, apparently he's HAD coaching experience in leagues .... according to some ppl who put up his resume'. ( I just cant be bothered to google him or check wiki. I just dont care about the bum . so I'll take his fans' words that he's had some coaching experience).

-------------

anyway, getting back to the main topic, we saw a new crop of players, many of them debutants, against hansa.
and in MY opinion, they did .... ummm.... less horribly or rather they could have and shd have performed far worse, given the circumstances.
not having a coach, the team formed a week back. so many first timers. so many young and inexperienced players. no time to instill tactics or strategy or even practice as a team. far too many names to reach a semblance of a team. and .... etc.

given the above factors, I expected them to play like little children. but what I saw, especially in the first half really surprised me. lots of pace and enough one-touch passes going round. if the strikers were a bit more experienced they'd have buried at least 2 goals in this half. we could sense ebrahimzadeh's insistence on quick passing game rather than individualistic one. and I'm happy almost all players followed that.
gone are the days we'd see a karimi style dribbler who'd want to dribble 4 players and go round and round. at least there wasnt much of that.

yes, instead we saw impatience ( jabbari, kolah-kaj and heidari ) mixed with pace. But I'm willing to bet with more practice and exposure, we can keep the pace and instill patience and sense into the inexperienced youngsters.

another positive is how Assadi filled the LB role. I know becoz he's not so famous and he's not a pp/ss player many fans wont notice or talk about him. but he didnt do much wrong here and I'm glad for that.
if he continues to perform at this level, I wouldnt be surprised to see him even start at TM's LB post.
shiri want bad either. but considering we have the likes of hosseini, bengar, aghili, heidari in that post, I doubt he'd be picked for the final 24 or even 30 list. But he showed he can be reliable just in case.

lack of a true playmaker was evident and I think if a more patient jabbari had started the game, we'd have a far better showing. and this lack resulted in diminished number of chances and opportunities created for the forwards. so I cant really fault the forwards all that much.

the first 30 minutes of the first half was quite a pleasant surprise for me. and that gives us some foundation to build on. especially when we know a whole lot of SERIOUS talent is yet to join them. shojaei, khalili, mobaali, kazemian, madanchi, aghili, bengar, mohamadi, ... are players that would really weigh in with their talent & experience.


so I'm happy and give a positive thumbs up to the team so far.

[zereshk-ali]

I think the most worrying aspect of Jorge's CV was what he did to Oliveira's exciting Portugal side (the most talented young team in Europe at the time) in not taking them to WC 98.

True, they were unlucky against Germany in the qualifiers (should have beaten them in Germany but for a ridiculous decision to send off Rui Costa for walking off the pitch when substituted and they were 1-0 up)...but the fact that he failed to even qualify with the golden generation of world youth cup winners of 89 and 91 is a huge stain.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

well now we are back to square one and the drama continues.

new name pop up: Simoez!

surely a prminent coach on youth levels, who coached several promising youth teams in his career and also few senior teams.
At the very moment, we just need a coach... anybody fine with me.

[ardi11]

[Kasra.]

/\ since when are you F+?