Down the memory lane : Iran football in the seventies.

[Nokhodi]

I was watching this with my fellow kids from the neighborhood (we had one of the few black and white Schaub Lorenz tvs in the neighborhood and if a football game was televized, all the neighborhood kids were "Telep at our house". After the game on TV was done, ofcourse all the neighborhood kids were going out and playing gol koocheek in the neighborhood and try to imitate the moves by their football heros.
Good old days.

Hehe, this reminds me of my dad's story about the 1968 Iran-Israel match. My dad, his 2 brothers and my grandfather wanted to see the match live. They went very early but the stadium was packed. They had to climb over the walls of Amjadieh and even then people were sitting on each others shoulders so you couldn't even see the game!
Because of this they left the stadium, my father and my uncles forced my grandfather to buy a tv right then and they immediately took it home and watched the game on TV.

[Ali Chicago]

Hehe, this reminds me of my dad's story about the 1968 Iran-Israel match. My dad, his 2 brothers and my grandfather wanted to see the match live. They went very early but the stadium was packed. They had to climb over the walls of Amjadieh and even then people were sitting on each others shoulders so you couldn't even see the game!
Because of this they left the stadium, my father and my uncles forced my grandfather to buy a tv right then and they immediately took it home and watched the game on TV.

I was only 6 at that time, I was listening to that game on the Radio. For some reason I only remember Mostfa Arab and Isrealie forward Speigel. But I maybe have mixed that with when Taj played Mccabeee in Asian club championship.

[perspolees]

bro, dont worry. today's players are also quite good.
I get a feeling you worry too much about the talent today, as evident in many other threads.
relax bahram jan.

I'd say apart from players like parvin, hejazi, ghelichkhani, and maybe rowshan, today's pack are stronger.
no disrespect to the heroes of the yore, but I must say today we have guys like navidkia the likes of passing & vision you'd be hard pressed to find in that era.
we have other talented midfielders like shojaei, mobaali, karimi ( if he werent such a lazy bum ) whose overall quality not only parallels the best of that era, sometimes, surpasses them too.


and you must remember, in 70's football was not as organized, streamlined professional entity that we see today. even in the best of nations. and an average athlete today is far superior to that of 70's, almost in every area.
so for all the love we have to our legends of the yore, I must say today's TM would definitely beat the 78 team.

with all due respect i disagree!
Football is a team work, and everything is proportional.

Stars will be stars we had them back then and we have them now they sparkle and fade...it is difficult to compare pele with say even maradona let alone compare thirty years agos players and talents with our current batch.

we have to compare the whole team iran to the whole asia or whole europe or whole world in those days and now. comparing players from past with players from now is very difficult. If we want to stratify calculable data you have to purify it as much as possible to get some meanig from the data that you are pooling to extract...

As such the only logical and reasonable conclusion would be that we were undoubtedly the king of asia and qualified to wc thru much tougher grouping/ setting and with a great safety margin back then, unlike the other recent two times.

I have no doubt in my mind that it would have been Iran who would have gotten to 82 and 86 instead of back to back Saudis...

It is also my opinion that the proportions of
Iran football / whole world football

was much larger of a number in 78 than what it is now

as such you cant say any team today beating the team thirty years ago because you have a time factor that you cant stratify to. you cant put brasil 2008 against brasil 1970 and say former beats the latter, because it is an impossible imagination, what you can compare
is brasil of 78/ world football
with brasil of 2008/ world football

in those equations i think you would get just about the same number...something that would not be true for Iran

[zzgloo]

with all due respect i disagree!
Football is a team work, and everything is proportional.
Stars will be stars we had them back then and we have them now they sparkle and fade...it is difficult to compare pele with say even maradona let alone compare thirty years agos players and talents with our current batch.
we have to compare the whole team iran to the whole asia or whole europe or whole world in those days and now. comparing players from past with players from now is very difficult. If we want to stratify calculable data you have to purify it as much as possible to get some meanig from the data that you are pooling to extract...
As such the only logical and reasonable conclusion would be that we were undoubtedly the king of asia and qualified to wc thru much tougher grouping/ setting and with a great safety margin back then, unlike the other recent two times.
I have no doubt in my mind that it would have been Iran who would have gotten to 82 and 86 instead of back to back Saudis...
It is also my opinion that the proportions of
Iran football / whole world football
was much larger of a number in 78 than what it is now
as such you cant say any team today beating the team thirty years ago because you have a time factor that you cant stratify to. you cant put brasil 2008 against brasil 1970 and say former beats the latter, because it is an impossible imagination, what you can compare
is brasil of 78/ world football
with brasil of 2008/ world football
in those equations i think you would get just about the same number...something that would not be true for Iran

I agree 100%.................
today's players are tommorow's old players !!!
I believe,the correct way to compaire is to see what they did then in the world,and we our players do in the world......
yesterday's players,won three asian championships....went to WC,tied scotland,and lost 3-0 to the very best in the world,which was holand.
yesterday's players, were harder to come by,than today's players...
today, most players can be replaced,but then, they could n't.

[Ali Chicago]

Probably not a related post here. But I get a feeling that after the Karimi/ Kia, Aziz, Bagheri and before them, Peeyoos, Abedzadeh, Hejazi, Parvin, Gheeleech, Rooshan, etc. etc. it seems there aren't any new superstars coming up in our TM. Currently our TM really doesn't have a super star per se. Karimi is in slump and the next generation of our footballers haven't been able to fill the shoes of past superstars. Neither Shojai, Mobali, Kazemeeyan, Ooladi, Akbarpoor, Khatibi, Enayati at the natioanl level and not even in our IPL level Amrayee, Mir Ghorbani, Borhani, etc.

This is not neccassarily a bad thing maybe for our football atleast. Maybe this will potentialy keep the team away from Hashieyeh.

[maij]

Probably not a related post here. But I get a feeling that after the Karimi/ Kia, Aziz, Bagheri and before them, Peeyoos, Abedzadeh, Hejazi, Parvin, Gheeleech, Rooshan, etc. etc. it seems there aren't any new superstars coming up in our TM. Currently our TM really doesn't have a super star per se. Karimi is in slump and the next generation of our footballers haven't been able to fill the shoes of past superstars. Neither Shojai, Mobali, Kazemeeyan, Ooladi, Akbarpoor, Khatibi, Enayati at the natioanl level and not even in our IPL level Amrayee, Mir Ghorbani, Borhani, etc.

This is not neccassarily a bad thing maybe for our football atleast. Maybe this will potentialy keep the team away from Hashieyeh.

There is two aspects of this.
One: Lack of true superstars , which is incidentally all in the figment of people imagination , probably means we have many stars/players at the same level. Which in itself is a good omen.

two: Superstars , rarely bring championship and accolades to a nation, they only bring glory to themselves. How many of Greek players , who won the European championship , one can name? A team with no superstar that played as a team and won.

So, who needs superstars...???

[zzgloo]

One possibility for lack of super-stars is that, may be theses days..
"we pick the froot from the tree,before its Ripe !! "....
May be, the player go after money,before aquireing neccessary experince........
May be they are admired , before they should !

[Ali Chicago]

There is two aspects of this.
One: Lack of true superstars , which is incidentally all in the figment of people imagination , probably means we have many stars/players at the same level. Which in itself is a good omen.

two: Superstars , rarely bring championship and accolades to a nation, they only bring glory to themselves. How many of Greek players , who won the European championship , one can name? A team with no superstar that played as a team and won.

So, who needs superstars...???

One can argue for pro and cons of the superstars on a team Agha Majid. With our culture of course having superstars can bring problems as well. But one can't still deny the role of a superstar. The true superstar is the guy who with his decicions and actions changes the game outcome (karimi in the 4-3 wiin over the S. Korea in China 2004) or runs he made on Shane Givens in Dublin and he came so close. His presence made Irish realize can't just come in waves against us in Dublin (WC2004 Qualifiers) in the scond half. Another Example is Parviz Gheeleechkhani performance against aussies in wc74 qualifiers, or Nasser Hejazi performance against North Korea in Peyong young or even against Holland in Argentina, abedzadeh in Melborne.
Superstar is like the team's anchor, other players look at him and get confidence.
I heard Bakhtiyarizadeh in a private party said "you should see some of our players in Lipzieg stadium, they were scared to death, of playing in front of the world in a WC game". One can imagine from a player in that emotional state what comes out. At that moments, a superstar with his superior moves or emotional state can be a real huge asset.

Remember Iran mexico friendly under GN. Had Enayati scored that opportunity maybe the game outcome would have changed. Superstars vs. very good players come to the rescue at times like that.

Again, I myself said at least in our less professioal soccer, having superstars has its own problems (karimi Dai saga in Germany is a perfect example), but still wouldn't have hurt to have one two superstars on the team. But I am not going to loose sleep over it.

[Ali Chicago]

One possibility for lack of super-stars is that, may be theses days..
"we pick the froot from the tree,before its Ripe !! "....
May be, the player go after money,before aquireing neccessary experince........
May be they are admired , before they should !

Well, in other countries still is the same situation but still they get superstars. I think the phonomenon of a superstar has its own timing and charcteristics and it can be just at a certain period of time a team won't have one (which is ok).
Don't mean to be resentful, but to be honest, Mr. Brankovitch has a role in this problem. For 4 years he didn't develope young players like Kazemian, Mobali, Shojai. With his insistance on a group of players who weren't neccassarily very talented (like Alavi, Kamelimofrad, zarre) and developing the young guns like Kazemian, Mobali, Shojai (to make that transition to make from the youth football to Adult football), Mr. Brankovitch is partly to blame.

Let me rephrase that, Mr. Brankovitvh was there to look into the short term goals of good performance of the TM. So his behavior can be justified or undertood at least from his own persoanl gain point of view. However the full blame goes to our football federation that due to lack of a technical committee or an inactive and gutless existing technical committee didn't presure mr. Brankovitch to invest on the younger players and stick to a pool of 25 players no matter what.

[zzgloo]

Ali jaan....how can you explain, the demise of talents ?
How can you explain, getting waisted, before florishing ?
How can you explain, waisting talents such as, Borhani,Oladi,Mobali,...etc....
Players,who in midst of youth,and florishing talents,are already too old ?

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jaan....how can you explain, the demise of talents ?
How can you explain, getting waisted, before florishing ?
How can you explain, waisting talents such as, Borhani,Oladi,Mobali,...etc....
Players,who in midst of youth,and florishing talents,are already too old ?

I totally agree about the impact of money, but Beckham had a contract from 14, Messi was a youth player in Barsa team. So Iran isn't the only country that money impacts the player from a very young age.

Did you read that Man U signed a 8 year old to his youth program initially based on the videos that his grandfather sent to Man united Scounting program.

My only comment was that money is in 90% of footballing world, but they still produce superstars.

My reason for lack of superstars in our team Melli is two fold:
One, superstar creation isnt' a linear process. Superstars are special and at times there will be ups and downs like any other natural process.
The second mitigating factor was the reign of Branko who didnt' invest in youth and developed our potential superstars. As a matter of fact, I think players like Kazemian, Shojai and Mobali specfically were burnt under the shahdow of Karimi, Kia. The same happened to our forward (although older) Samereh, Enayati, Akbarpoor and even to some degree to Hashemian under the shadow of Daie.

I dont' blame Branko, since he had the TM short term goals, it is our federation fault (and the technical committee of the TM if it exists really) to not enforce this policy of younger player development in TM.
All those silly games agains Guam and weaker teams, had our youth played instead of our fixed TM players maybe we weren't in the dire situation we are now.

[zzgloo]

I totally agree about the impact of money, but Beckham had a contract from 14, Messi was a youth player in Barsa team. So Iran isn't the only country that money impacts the player from a very young age.
Did you read that Man U signed a 8 year old to his youth program initially based on the videos that his grandfather sent to Man united Scounting program.
My only comment was that money is in 90% of footballing world, but they still produce superstars.
My reason for lack of superstars in our team Melli is two fold:
One, superstar creation isnt' a linear process. Superstars are special and at times there will be ups and downs like any other natural process.
The second mitigating factor was the reign of Branko who didnt' invest in youth and developed our potential superstars. As a matter of fact, I think players like Kazemian, Shojai and Mobali specfically were burnt under the shahdow of Karimi, Kia. The same happened to our forward (although older) Samereh, Enayati, Akbarpoor and even to some degree to Hashemian under the shadow of Daie.
I dont' blame Branko, since he had the TM short term goals, it is our federation fault (and the technical committee of the TM if it exists really) to not enforce this policy of younger player development in TM.
All those silly games agains Guam and weaker teams, had our youth played instead of our fixed TM players maybe we weren't in the dire situation we are now.

I can not argue with both your reasonings....indeed , may be we could also add, what I had in mind...and that is (Money) !!, not the money you had in mind, but the money I have in mind ! ......
what I mean, is......money in Iran, has a different value !!.....it is not just money, it is " Freedom ".It is a passport to prosperity from bottom of no where..............You may say, England has gettos too,...but, the jump in freedom that Iranian players make with fame, is much more significant.....
Look at, Al-ghahtani's refusal to go to manchester....and our players are willing to go to arab countries by dozens !!!....they want to immidiately cash in !!!.........The immidiate cashing in,is the most thier imagination takes them.

[Ali Chicago]

I can not argue with both your reasonings....indeed , may be we could also add, what I had in mind...and that is (Money) !!, not the money you had in mind, but the money I have in mind ! ......
what I mean, is......money in Iran, has a different value !!.....it is not just money, it is " Freedom ".It is a passport to prosperity from bottom of no where..............You may say, England has gettos too,...but, the jump in freedom that Iranian players make with fame, is much more significant.....
Look at, Al-ghahtani's refusal to go to manchester....and our players are willing to go to arab countries by dozens !!!....they want to immidiately cash in !!!.........The immidiate cashing in,is the most thier imagination takes them.

I am not sure about the characterization you make of Iranian money from outside Iran money and the whole freedom thing. Maybe you elaborate a bit more (to help this Khneng khoda (me) follow your line of thinking better).

As far as Alghahtani, you forget that he probably makes a pretty good money in Suadi already, so there is no incentive for him to go outside. Alitahad, Alshabad alkooft va alzahremar players in Suadi Arabia make very good money (super stars in the range of million dollar per year) and no taxes. So for him going to Man city money wise is worst (since income tax in Europe is way high).

The issue I think is somewhat a consequence of lack of professionalisem in our football and high level of competition in our football. Right now, Iran can probably field 3 TM with more or less the same level.

Let me share a memory with you to make support my claim. I remember back in 1998 WCQ, when Bagheri had two yellow from the qualification games plus the game against Japan and initially couldn't play against Australia, everyone had maatam va aza (a guy I know and at that time was working with the Canadian soccer federation (he was Iranian), used his influence and got a waiver for Bagheri at that time on a technical ground).

Again in summary, two factores: lack of professionalisem in our society and our foorball (which just simply takes time to be developed).
Higher and closer level of comeptition among our players, makes the players more or less at the same level (my argument for current 3 TM with more or less the same level). Please remember our so called B team beat Iraq and won WAFF. The same Iraqi team beat Australia 3-1 and won to win the AFC championship.

[zzgloo]

[QUOTE=Ali Chicago;897559]I am not sure about the characterization you make of Iranian money from outside Iran money and the whole freedom thing. Maybe you elaborate a bit more (to help this Khneng khoda (me) follow your line of thinking better).


Lotfan Choob-kari nafarmaeed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ali Jaan,...........The country has 30 to 50 % unemployment, the youth of iran, has the highest sueaside percentage , ....the lack fun, driniking alcohol,no party drug addictions,.......punishment of being with a femail, whipping slashes,of the youth, bombardment of religouse shits,no freedom, unfair judicial system.etc,etc,etc.............................has created an atmospher of " worshipping western culture,and wanting to get out of Iran, with any means neccessary !!!...............Going to UAE, is indeed, a luxury,and makeing money,along with being able to be with femails,and away from islamic presures,is a freedom Football can bring !!!

Defenetly, as you stated, the lack of professionalism,may be the real reason , yet, Freedom,is an additional incentive, that freedom starved Iranian youth is looking for !!

[Ali Chicago]

[QUOTE=zzgloo;897606]

I am not sure about the characterization you make of Iranian money from outside Iran money and the whole freedom thing. Maybe you elaborate a bit more (to help this Khneng khoda (me) follow your line of thinking better).
Lotfan Choob-kari nafarmaeed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ali Jaan,...........The country has 30 to 50 % unemployment, the youth of iran, has the highest sueaside percentage , ....the lack fun, driniking alcohol,no party drug addictions,.......punishment of being with a femail, whipping slashes,of the youth, bombardment of religouse shits,no freedom, unfair judicial system.etc,etc,etc.............................has created an atmospher of " worshipping western culture,and wanting to get out of Iran, with any means neccessary !!!...............Going to UAE, is indeed, a luxury,and makeing money,along with being able to be with femails,and away from islamic presures,is a freedom Football can bring !!!
Defenetly, as you stated, the lack of professionalism,may be the real reason , yet, Freedom,is an additional incentive, that freedom starved Iranian youth is looking for !!

I haven't been in Iran for 20 something years now. So I don't have a good pulse of what is going on. But I definitly was amazed with the worship like behavior toward west (come to west anyway u can).