Syria Post match comments and rating

[Doctor DOOM]

We knew what kind of game Syria would adopt. A defensively packed, physical game with hope on counterattacks.
Logic dictates in such games we shd keep the following factors in mind and opt for:
1- shooting
2- planning & utilizing set pieces
3- spreading the packed defense wide with our wingers/wider players.
ANY of the above !

1- in shooting, we were so embarrassing to see Syria out-shoot us almost twice the number, in AZADI ! now that is pathetic on our parts.
Especially for the coaching (!!) staff that shd have opted for it and reminded the players to go for it, but did not do so!

2- we had something around 9-10 set pieces apart from corners. About 5 of them DIRECT wide absurd basis of selectionPLAY MAKER.

The absence of a play-maker was most visible and I believe it is this factor that has caused the MOST problems for us in the past 2-3 years and not just this game.
How did it affect us?

i) We saw our forwards come deep, too deep at times and too often to get the ball and try to do something with it. This only meant we lacked players up front and in a zone that enables us to score goal. Both Samereh and Rajabzadeh, who were good enough in my opinion, did this and this reduced their impact on the game.
Why?
Becoz there was hardly any service from the midfield to them!
While Karimi did ok, he did not play the play-maker part well, solely becoz he was not active and energetic enough!
After a while Rajabzadeh came so deep to become a pseudo playmaker. But that meant we had only ONE player up front among the crowd of defenders which nullified our attacks !

ii)iii)ACTIVE and full of runningBottomline:

[khabalood]

Are you serious? No defensive mid against most asian opposition? I'd be interested to know what you consider our group opponents as? Do they belong to that group? If they do, then Syria totally proved that wrong today. We had only one, Teymoorian, today and he had a difficult enough time as it was. We never were able to impose ourselves, because we couldn't control the mid and interrupt the Syrian's game and stats clearly showed it at the end. We had less ball possession despite playing at home!
If now the group opponents don't belong to you category then this whole argument is void, because these are the ones we have to face!

Yes, I am serious. We have the talent in Iran, which would allow us to easy dominate most teams in Asia, putting enough pressure on them, that in essence it would severely limit their time on the ball and ensure us the lead in the scoreline.

Today we witnessed a weak and useless combination between Teymourian (who is barely a defensive midfielder, since it is normally a requirement that they have adequate passing skills) and a lackluster Karimi who was forced to burden himself with the sole responsibility of attacking through the middle of the pitch. Teymourian could barely get a pass through to anyone in an offensive role, and he failed to dictate the pass of the game. Instead he looked blinkered as he tried to read the game and find anyone to pass too. Under these circumstances we never had a chance to control the game and the Syrians gained advantages especially through Teymourians numerous givaways.

Replace this duo with Navidkia or Nekounam and give them the role of cm. Next replace Karimi with a more active player like Shojaei or Mobali and we will have a strong aggressive attack through the middle, which will get more balls through to our forwards and more bodies in the box as well. This will result in goals, which we are lacking at the moment. Navidkia and Nekounam are very good at reading the game, dictating tempo and distributing the ball to our forwards. We have been lacking this for some time in our game.

Asian B teams like Syria, China, Iraq and anyone weaker do not require the use of a defensive midfielder unless they are coming into the game after we have gained a substantial lead. I would even limit their usage under than circumstance. We can dominate these teams and we should move to do so, not hang ourselves because we are insecure.

Also in case you were wondering, I consider Teymourian a pure dog fighter. Great at disrupting the game of a superior opponent (by marking a key player on the other team), if he is supported properly in midfield. He wasn't even given that support today.

[Doctor DOOM]

I, personally, wouldnt mind having a good tough Def-Mid in the line up. someone who tackles well and wins battles in the middle and gets the ball for the team.
BUT then he gives the ball to the play-maker who is ideally in his vicinity and the playmaker can do his job.

this was done at madrid where Makelele used to do the ideal job of holding, disrupting and intercepting the opponents, winning the ball, he'd then pass it to zidane who'd do his magic.
now, we dont have players of that caliber, but the THEORY and essence of this can be applied to TM. pairing of a fighter-distributor in the middle.


the need for a single def-mid is becoz our defenders and defense in general is not that organized and cohesive. so we need someone who forms a primary barrier in front of them and disrupts the opponent's palymaking. he also fills the gap between the midfield and defense.
so I'd say we need one in the team. but never two.
unless we're playing a huge team like brazil or holland and we just want to defend more than anything else.

[khabalood]

I, personally, wouldnt mind having a good tough Def-Mid in the line up. someone who tackles well and wins battles in the middle and gets the ball for the team.
BUT then he gives the ball to the play-maker who is ideally in his vicinity and the playmaker can do his job.

this was done at madrid where Makelele used to do the ideal job of holding, disrupting and intercepting the opponents, winning the ball, he'd then pass it to zidane who'd do his magic.
now, we dont have players of that caliber, but the THEORY and essence of this can be applied to TM.


the need for a single def-mid is becoz our defenders and defense in general is not that organized and cohesive. so we need someone who forms a primary barrier in front of them and disrupts the opponent's palymaking. he also fills the gap between the midfield and defense.
so I'd say we need one in the team. but never two.
unless we're playing a huge team like brazil or holland and we just want to defend more than anything else.

Doctor jaan, thats true, but even in your example Makelele has the offensive qualities of a cm. Just as Nekounam does. Both these player can play either the dm or cm although both are better at dm. Such players can be used effectively because they are versatile enough to meet the demands of supporting our other players in attack, because of their offensive qualities. Without these qualities however, any dm would just weaken our teams ability to move the ball up the center of the pitch far too much.

[Doctor DOOM]

I agree on the versatility of the player.
I think Neku is closer to a complete player than ando.
although ando is more of a fighter. If neku regains his past form + improves on his tackling, he'd be a better choice than ando.

But I dont think having a def mid would necessarily weaken the team's movement as he is to move ALONG with the team, as a supporting role behind the playmaker and wingers.
in fact he is the one to cover the area where deflected crosses land just behind the opponent's 18.
remember bagheri?
he'd pounce on these rebounds and second balls that fell in that zone. luckily, neku is as good a shot as bagheri.

[purple_haze]

Yes, I am serious. We have the talent in Iran, which would allow us to easy dominate most teams in Asia, putting enough pressure on them, that in essence it would severely limit their time on the ball and ensure us the lead in the scoreline.

Today we witnessed a weak and useless combination between Teymourian (who is barely a defensive midfielder, since it is normally a requirement that they have adequate passing skills) and a lackluster Karimi who was forced to burden himself with the sole responsibility of attacking through the middle of the pitch. Teymourian could barely get a pass through to anyone in an offensive role, and he failed to dictate the pass of the game. Instead he looked blinkered as he tried to read the game and find anyone to pass too. Under these circumstances we never had a chance to control the game and the Syrians gained advantages especially through Teymourians numerous givaways.

Replace this duo with Navidkia or Nekounam and give them the role of cm. Next replace Karimi with a more active player like Shojaei or Mobali and we will have a strong aggressive attack through the middle, which will get more balls through to our forwards and more bodies in the box as well. This will result in goals, which we are lacking at the moment. Navidkia and Nekounam are very good at reading the game, dictating tempo and distributing the ball to our forwards. We have been lacking this for some time in our game.

Asian B teams like Syria, China, Iraq and anyone weaker do not require the use of a defensive midfielder unless they are coming into the game after we have gained a substantial lead. I would even limit their usage under than circumstance. We can dominate these teams and we should move to do so, not hang ourselves because we are insecure.

Also in case you were wondering, I consider Teymourian a pure dog fighter. Great at disrupting the game of a superior opponent (by marking a key player on the other team), if he is supported properly in midfield. He wasn't even given that support today.

You say it yourself in your reply to DD, Nekounam is frist and mostly a DM, now if he has other qualities, that's a bonus and that's what makes him an exceptional player. Navidkia, your other example, can not and has never been used as a DM or at least a sole DM, he simply doesn't have the physical attributes for it. In his breakthrough golden days starting from Busan games, where it was at omid level and maybe somewhat less physically demanding, he played alongside Nekounam in the middle, where Neko could off-load him physically. In Sepahan, he has always had at least one pure DM backing him up.
In any working system in football today and quite frankly for quite a while, the line up has to be balanced. All the trainers, emphasize on the importance of at least a balance player in the middle. One who's main job is to link the defense to midfield, fight in the middle to disrupt the rhythm of the opponents and to clean up behind the OM.

Taking away DM in any team, be it international or hillbilly league, will take away the balance of the whole lineup. It leaves 4 defenders (if a 3-man defense) 2 of which have attacking duties and aren't pure defenders, thus leaving 2 central defenders, or 3 defenders (if a 3-man defense) exposed to deal with the attacks.

[khabalood]

I used the example of Nekounam because his versatility makes him better suited to the position of cm. Given the choice however, I would rather field a cm than a dm. As we saw today the lack of a designated cm hurt the team, and made Syria an offensive threat that they should not be. Playing with a dm did not alleviate this, instead added to the problem.

Navidkia for his part is very good at holding the ball in the center of the field as well as distributing it. Although he is not a real dm, his aforementioned characteristic makes him a versitile player, and one of our best in the center of the field. That is why I suggested him.

[Martin-Reza]

How in earth could you dominate a team when you don't have a DM or CMs who are strong in defensive one on ones?

You won't even beat Laos with no DM and Shojaei and Navidkia as CMs.

Simply fielding offensive players is not making a team more dominant but highly vulnerable.

It is highly ridiculous that we even have to talk about this.

What's next, playing without defenders or a goalie because we are supposed to dominate weaker opponents?

[khabalood]

You write about the defensive midfield position as if no team has ever won without one. Believe it or not teams have won using the 4-4-2 with two cm's instead of acm and dm.

You dominate the team by using players who can maintain possession instead of turning over the ball numerous times as witnessed today. In football as long as the other team does not have possession of the ball, you are in control. By using players who can maintain possession, you can dominate another team. Limiting their time with the ball and the number of "defensive one on ones" in the process."

Constantly losing the ball in the middle of the pitch is a far greater vulnerability than not having a designated dm.

I also find your laos comment ridiculous.

[Doctor DOOM]

I must say before the introduction of the crappy 4-2-3-1 formation, and coining of the term "defensive midfielder", almost every other formation had only central mids.
without restricting them or their titles as def-mid, team used to have players who became the link between defense line and midfield. in case of 2 CM's, usually one of the two would play slightly behind the other to cover the area. even in a supposedly flat 4 midfield.

so even in a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 formation you'd eventually and practically would have a mid who would have slightly more defensive duties than the next guy.
so I doubt one could say those teams couldnt dominate or even play defensively before the coinage of the term "def mid".

sadly in the past decade, the defensive attitude has become so prevalent and many teams have become more defensive and cautious than usual that now we see terms like def-mid or .. become popular !!

[BehzadB]

I think we have to give Syria credit for a very good and effective game plan...

they defended with multiple defensive layers and were able to put pressure on our defensive line by keeping at least two, and often three players, up front.. those three guys did a great job harassing our defense.. of course they gave up the middle of the field a little bit, but they played smart and with emotions in check....

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On our own team;

I don't mean to put down Ebrahimzadeh, but our formation/line up was crooked...

niki a left back?? Kia a CM??? Kaabi a right Back??

Why would you take a Bundesliga RB and use him as an ineffective CM and then end up taking him out? Denizili didn't use Niki as a left back neither did he use Kaabi as a RB.. GN didn't use Kaabi as a right back.. A second division team in England didn't use Kaabi, PERIOD!!!

Ebrahim zadeh wanted to prove.... what????


What's the point of getting the ball to Karimi in the middle of the field?? What's he going to do with it?? Karimi should get the ball closer to the goal, as Dr. Z told GN on Navad last year..

pulling Samereh for Khalili is not a change.. it is doing the same thing with a different player..

another mistake was Teymourian's vast responsibility as the lone DM.. If you are going to use one DM, why not take a defender out and use to DMs instead?? Maziar Zareh for example...

Ebrahim zadeh wanted to put his signature on the team, but he laid an Egg.. , the size of Syria..

[Doctor DOOM]

^ true that.
well, that explains why we have two DISTINCT positions on a team: one is an assistant coach, the other is the head coach.
and now we know the roles, duties, requisites and responsibilities of each one is very different.
you just cant expect a good assistant coach to be a good head coach.

[Hadi]

What did we expect? Did we expect that after a year of closing down our TM, after not having a head coach and federation for a long time, and after choosing a guy out of nowhere to lead our team, we were going to win?
Baba Donya Hesab Ketab Dare.

We need a stable condition, a coaching staff and a supportive government and IFF first. After that comes a 3 year timetable for TM. After that comes the process of shortlisting the right players for TM. I have said many times that we are giving guaranteed spots in TM to our legionnaire's even when they are not fit. For example, imagine if Nekonam was fit to play, we would have definitely included him in the lineup without even thinking that a player who has been out for 6 months needs at least another 2 months to reach his maximum physical fitness. Why are we calling up players like Samereh and Nikbakht? What good will they be in 2.5 years? We need a revolution of players in TM. We need new blood. We need to find our new Nekonams, Karimis, Kazemians and Mobalis. We need someone to spot a handful of talents and shape them into national players. We did this twice and both generations ended up being our best footballers. Once in 1996 with Mayelikohan and once in 2002 Busan with Branko. We need to inject youth, motivation and discipline (on and off the field). We need to get rid of BAZIKON SALARI and SOSOOLS. I trust Clemente will do this. He knows thats the only way to have any hope for 2010 WC.


Moving on to Ebharimzadeh. Although I dont blame him for his stupidity (people who appointed him in the first place are to blame) but I believe that: In any job, if the appointed person feels he doesn't have adequate knowledge or ability to carry out the job, it is his moral responsibility to step aside.. But Ebrahimzadeh chose not to do so.
Ebrahimzadeh's sheer dumbness was proved yesterday by insisting on using 2 Esfehani players. He thinks that TM is the place to bring up racial rivalries. Why the hell did Rajabzadeh, who is barely playing in a mid table UAE team, get a guaranteed spot even though he came late to the camp? Aghili is the slowest defender in Iran. I don't think he can run 100 meters in less than 20 seconds. He takes so long to control and pass the ball. Why is Shakori, Nosrati and Bengar benched in favor of him?

Why did he insist on using Teymorian and Mahdavikia? Mahdavikia was obviously out of shape and Teymorian is a bench warmer and they were both late and didn't participate in the 2 week TM camp. And he benched Kazemian, Zare, Mobali and Jabbari. I understand the fact that he doesn't have the balls to bench them because he is a 'small' person to lead our 'big' players.

On the left side, Ebrahimzadeh made the old mistake again by using Nikbakht. Nikbakht will ruin the game wherever he plays. Dont think that Nikbakht as a left winger is any better. Back in 2002, the disastrous duo of Nikbakht and Minavand proved that we must not use Nikbakht in TM ever again, but we are making the same mistake again.

Didn't Ebrahimzadeh know that we needed ONLY A WIN at all costs??? I guess he doesn't even know how to break up tight defenses, something that our TM had started to get good at before the 2006 WC. He didn't know that keeping possession as much as possible, playing wide, changing the side of play with long passes , opening up play, and slowly getting close to their goal without rushing things is the way to beat teams who come to Azadi for a draw (he could have at least watched how we beat N.Korea and Bahrain in Tehran). Instead we played a quick football, with short passes, dribbling, and TAK RAVI. Instead of using defensive midfielder with the ability to dictate pace and possession and press the opponent and get the ball back quickly, he fielded offensive players thinking that the team will score 10 goals and ply like Brazil if they have lots of offensive players.

[Doctor DOOM]

well, hadi jan, I agree that we need injection of fresh blood.
and actually dehdari shd have been mentioned first before AC96 and busan.

dehdari's act was the most gutsy and revolutionary.
MK's was gutsy no doubt but not as whole-sale as dehdari's.
branko also had little to do with it as that team was heavily based on MONAJATI's team that qualified for the youth WC.

But the underlying factor for all are the same: each time we've had a strong YOUTH system and team, our seniors team has benefited tremendously.

that's why we are struggling now.
in the past 2 years our youth teams have failed more than anything else. our olympics team did miserably and didnt produce more than a scant few potential players ( kolahkaj, zareh, ... ).

and when there no consistent supply of players into TM, or if they are not trusted and given time, the established ones will become complacent.

imagine what could have been if borhani, at his peak, was trusted to play many of those friendly games we used daei. or kazemian instead of kia. or shojaei instead of karimi. or ... .
what would we have NOW?
a far more experienced and settled kazemian, shojaei, borhani, .... that the team revolved around and if kia, vh, or karimi are missing, the team doesnt miss a beat.


=================

on EZ, however, I must disagree.
first, the poor guy knows he's NOT a coach and is supposed to be an assistant to the coach. he didnt ACCEPT THE JOB, per se as there was NO OFFER of the job in the first place. it was like he was a part of the staff and in the coach's absence he had to do the needful. that's all. lets not read too much into what the rags in iran "label".

secondly, EZ , in fear of such accusations, has actually over-looked guys like seyed salehi and ... ( forgot his name ) who did deserve to be in the list of 50.
Not only that, I feel the aghili-bengar pairing is as good as aghili-hosseini pairing and he could have easily put bengar in for hosseini ( with strong enough excuse of their performances in ACL ) if he was what you accuse him of. but he hasnt.
so I think it's a bit unkind to accuse him of being bias towards isfahani teams' players.


and btw, Rajabzadeh played quite well. especially if we compare him with the more famous players at TM.
his inclusion was definitely justified.
in fact he has rarely played BADLY for the team. his performances , as rare as they are, have always been average and above average, IMO. whereas at the same time, many of our more famous players have under-performed and done horribly ... far worse than him. and still we dont see as many critics and cries for their exclusion. always waiting for that "supposedly imminent" spark of brilliance, .... which has not been coming in a VERY LONG TIME now !!!

(Oh boy, did you pick on the wrong two players !!! as both aghili and rajabzadeh played well )

[purple_haze]

On obvious thing about the match was the syrians' fitness and therefore physical superiority compared to most of our players.

Incidentally those who could somewhat keep up where mostly our PGL league players. There were ofcourse exceptions in both groups. Kaebi from the non league players who was in much better shape than in the previous match and from the league players Niki who is, well...he's Niki as always slightly out of shape.

Had we used more of our league players, instead of the out of form names such as Rajabzadeh, Kia etc. we would have faired a bit better. At least we would have had more ball possession in our own home field.

In the particular case of Kazemian, I kinda disagree about the statement that we have been playing Kia for too long and too much, causing Kazemian not to develope. Kia has NOT been there all the time and hasn't played all the matches. The old excuse of Daei occupying the forward spot and being the reason we don't have good forwards doesn't apply here. Had Kia played everytime there was a match, like Daei did, he would have held the number of international games for Iran record now instead of Daei. It all goes back to Kazemian himself. He has in fact had opportunities, but again he's the one who hasn't taken them. He's simply just to inconsistent! Another thing about the Kazemian and Kia comparison and one taking the other's spot is that Kia, apart from having been far to superior, is and always has been much more flexible and adaptable. He has played in all the wing and side positions from defense to forward and excelled in them all. Kazemian on the other hand is a one trick pony! He only succeeds and even that only half of the time, when playing in forward like positions. But even then he's not smart enough to utilize his abilities better. The guy is known for his speed and acceleration but still is caught offside 4 out of 5 times most of the time. His timing after such a long time hasn't improved and he still hasn't learned that with his speed he can afford to take off a bit later than he does!
He came in for an out of form Kia and he still had time to do something, heck anything, but he didn't or should I say couldn't. Somebody should advise him to work a lot harder on his shortcomings instead of whining and playing the victim.

In case of Karimi, I totally agree and I think that he should have been given a break from TM after the world cup indefinitely. But I have my doubts about Shojaei though. I have yet to see any impact from him at any TM, be it senior TM, Omid or whatever. Jabbari, if totally fit would be my first choice, same with Navidkia and then Mobali.