Editorial: We don't need new forwards.

[RaginG Inferno]

In a football team, every position, every player has a job to do, a role to play. For example, a defensive midfielder needs to assist with the defence when they are pressed, or break up fast counters and provide the link between defence and midfield. Additionally, with the other midfielders and defenders, they need to hold and control possession. Refer to the Iran v South Korea game AC2004, where Iran's dictation of possession play led to a classy and emphatic victory. Note that this was one of Iran's best games in the last half-decade.


In football, one cannot expect an essential part of the team to be lacklustre or faulty, without an effect on the other positions. In Iran's case, with the notable absence of Javad Nekounam and the lack of a competent coach, Team Melli's defence and midfield is encountering immense difficulties keeping possession. Consequently, Iran is unable to build up plays and opportunities, for the playmakers to pass the ball around, find the uncovered angle and make the crucial pass leading to goal scoring opportunities. But how is this relevant to our inability to score?


The rather innocuous(ironically!) role of a forward is to put the ball in the back of the net. However, the opportunities to do so should be provided by the midfield. As I have explained, our inability to keep possession denies the midfield of having the angles to create these opportunities. If one analyzes Iran vs Syria, the problem was actually that the forwards were missing easy opportunities. No, the greatest concern was that these opportunities were largely absent. Whose role, primarily, is it to create opportunities? The midfield (Of course, in the modern game, the role of each position increasingly is overlapping due to the maturing athletic prowess of footballists).


Traditionally, we have relied on an Ali Daei, Khodadad Azizi(remember Iran v Australia?) or Vahid Hashemian(Iran v South Korea ACQ, Iran v Qatar WCQ) to produce a moment of magic to salvage some pride for Iran. Now, Iran cannot rely on a killer finisher to carry the team on his shoulders. Chants of Ali Daei's name reverberating around Azadi stadium against Syria suggest fans are slowly beginning to grasp this reality. Consequently, this finally means that Iran's midfield and defence line need to take some responsibility, and keep possession, which, in turn, will lead to more goal scoring opportunities...and be taken to their logical conclusion in the form of goals.


Now, how can Iran play a possession game? To create this footballing culture for the national team is a complicated task which needs to be developed at youth level. But, on a short term basis, a coach like Javier Clemente can develop this capability within a team. That is the IFF's domain.
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[Mansoor]

Good read. Thanks.

[RaginG Inferno]

I also watched Australia v Qatar. I was profoundly impressed by Australia's possession play, they really dictated the game; the ball was their personal property!

I've watched Australia over many years, and I must say they are, currently, a superior team to us.

[Doctor DOOM]

since rage jan brought up the korea game, one thing has to be said about the game.

I know we all love that game, mainly becoz of the exciting reversals in fortune, the number of goals scored and the fact that we scored more of them. we also love it becoz that was one tournament ( and game) where karimi justified all the hype about him.

but let us also remember we had flaws in that same game that have gone unnoticed due to the celebratory score-line.

everytime we wanted, we surged ahead and scored. but what happened after that? we took our feet off the pedal, lost the midfield to the koreans, allowed them to pressurize us and eventually score.
when we shd have merely SLOWED DOWN the speed of the game by possession football and short, safe passing and patient movement, we gave up, retreated back and allowed them to attack us.
so while we celebrate the result, we shd also recognize the result doesnt exactly reflect all periods of the game for us, so I question the use of "emphatic victory" in the original post. coz judging by how the match went on, another 10 minutes and the koreans would have equalized ! ( and another 10-15 minutes, we would have scored again. and so on .... )

on possession football.
being a barca fan I must admit my love for a nice string of passing between players from all parts of the pitch. and I have always longed to see such play in TM.
but as pretty possession football seems, it needs the most basic criteria of all sports: running and movement.
without enough running and movement, there can be no possession football.
the players have to constantly find spaces and move into them, thus availing their mates of an option to pass to.
stationary football loses the ball immediately, becoz the opponent can charge you, mark you and dispossess you easily.

in recent TM's we dont have enough movement almost everywhere! be it forward line, midfield or defense.
I can think of very few ppl who actually keep moving and finding spaces. kia may be one. VH sometimes does that. I've seen enayati do that. kaabi uses his quick feet to do that. but that's it. I cant recount anyone else doing so.

madanchi isnt intelligent enough to do so, despite his pace!
karimi is way too lazy to be bothered with such trivial things !
ando uses his quick feet for interception and disruption of opponents more than freeing himself for mates.
niki ? do we have to talk about him?
nekunam? not sure but I dont think he's as nimble as he shd be but he has had on and off days.

these are more or less the usual suspects for a TM line up in a game.

in fact this lack of movement is why sometimes players seem to be taking time to decide ... whereas they are actually trying to see who frees himself and dont find many runners or ppl moving into spaces. hence the delays in passing, and labels of "being slow decision makers" !

[zzgloo]

We Do Need A Center Forward !!

I also initiated the thread,"An Idea for Center forward ", and also did not want to start another one....but, I have no plan to negate Raging-inferno's statement, as they make sence in general.....
We need center forward, and we need it badly....
the role of a center forward is :

1-score Goal.
2-to be an "island", or " Aircraft carrier ", or a distributing center,in the heart of the enemy camp.
3-occupy the defenders,and free other forwards.
4-help defense, on deiferent occations, specialy corners.
5-Break off-side traps.
6-out muscle defenders.

although,midfield needs to feed the forward line, but, center forward, must be the agent for the midfield to carry its plans...
We had no body,since ali daie,and hashemian appears to be lost all alone.
The currant situation, with all untested prospects,is just pethetic.
We need this position much more than a better goalkeeper, or a left back....we need it so badly,that we can not wait for another talent show up some time in future......we need it so badly, that we need to artificialy make one, or trasplant ..which I suggested,( Nikbakht )......
Ali daie scored 107 or so goals,in last 10 years or so !! ( which translates to so many wins).......would we have been as successful without him?..and would our other forwards had as much chances without him on the field ?

[Mansoor]

http://www2.irna.ir/fa/news/view/men...7630103641.htm

[Doctor DOOM]

http://www2.irna.ir/fa/news/view/men...7630103641.htm

thanks mansoor jan.

( a bit off topic but related to daei's piece:
first, I'm very proud of him being a part of such a committee.
hmmm... I wonder "who" brought up the issue of time wasting. )

But he speaks the truth that the main problem is we dont CREATE situations for the forwards ( and other players ) to score.
and the most apparent explanation is the absence of a PLAY MAKER in the team.

[zzgloo]

Mansoor jaan............
If the lack of scoreing is not because of forwards.......does that mean we have the right forwards ?
The issue,in this thread is not finding out why we did not score......., we had lack of scoreing even in the asian games... as mostly ,we counted on center-defense to come and head the balls,on set kicks....or midfield to help out......
we saw,even in Asian games, how lonely hashemian was....as if he was looking for help.
" Inshaallah " when we get a coach, and when we have some strategies for the offense, and working midfield...we will realize, why Branko,insisted to keep Daei !,even a non-fouctional Daei......
he used to say, he and Hashemian is the best Iran has......and we the fan used to say, no we have lots of talents....................so, a year or so later.....who is it we have ? specialy to play as center forward ?
who do we have, to pair with Hashemian ?..............
this period of finding a partner for Hashemian has taken so long, that hashemian himself, is getting so old !
And if we are to play without hashemian, which is very soon ?..........
You do not think we need forwards ?, specialy center forward ?................
I do not agree with daei at all, if he is to say we are fine at the forward position.

[RaginG Inferno]

Mansoor jaan............
If the lack of scoreing is not because of forwards.......does that mean we have the right forwards ?
The issue,in this thread is not finding out why we did not score......., we had lack of scoreing even in the asian games... as mostly ,we counted on center-defense to come and head the balls,on set kicks....or midfield to help out......
we saw,even in Asian games, how lonely hashemian was....as if he was looking for help.
" Inshaallah " when we get a coach, and when we have some strategies for the offense, and working midfield...we will realize, why Branko,insisted to keep Daei !,even a non-fouctional Daei......
he used to say, he and Hashemian is the best Iran has......and we the fan used to say, no we have lots of talents....................so, a year or so later.....who is it we have ? specialy to play as center forward ?
who do we have, to pair with Hashemian ?..............
this period of finding a partner for Hashemian has taken so long, that hashemian himself, is getting so old !
And if we are to play without hashemian, which is very soon ?..........
You do not think we need forwards ?, specialy center forward ?................
I do not agree with daei at all, if he is to say we are fine at the forward position.

Hashemian is a decent forward, and Enayati is not a bad striker. The same goes for Samereh, Khatibi etc. People don't simply forget how to score when they play for Team Melli. Is it not a coincidence, that every forward we test recently cannot score? They are professional players, I don't believe they simply choke. One or two, maybe. But every single one? Without exception? I don't think so.

In fact, the disorganization of the national team's tactics and formation is what creates this drought. It's not a lack of quality, but a fundamental problem with the national team. I have identified this problem in my editorial.

Bar Iran vs Malaysia, Iran's forwards barely missed any goal scoring opportunities throughout the Asian Cup. Watching Iran - Korea (AC2007) demonstrated that our forwards simply are not being given the opportunities to score.

I don't think anyone here would argue that Hashemian, Enayati and Samereh are incapable of scoring against Syria. They are individually better than any player in the Syrian squad and have demonstrated so in their club football. Sure, none are at the level of Raul or Drogba, but even they would find it difficult to score with the lack of scoring opportunities provided by their teammates. In fact, Ali Daei commented to 'futbol mundial' that the reason he was able to score so many goals should not solely be credited to him, but his teammates who gave him such opportunities to score. Would Ali Daei racked up so many goals without the magician Azizi behind him(Remember Iran v South Korea 6 -2)? Without Bagheri? Absolutely not.

Our current line-up of forwards are more than enough to do the job. But, as with any job, the prerequisites need to be fulfilled before the job can be done properly. This is where the employment of a competent coach is beneficial.

[RaginG Inferno]

on possession football.
being a barca fan I must admit my love for a nice string of passing between players from all parts of the pitch. and I have always longed to see such play in TM.
but as pretty possession football seems, it needs the most basic criteria of all sports: running and movement.
without enough running and movement, there can be no possession football.
the players have to constantly find spaces and move into them, thus availing their mates of an option to pass to.
stationary football loses the ball immediately, becoz the opponent can charge you, mark you and dispossess you easily.

in recent TM's we dont have enough movement almost everywhere! be it forward line, midfield or defense.
I can think of very few ppl who actually keep moving and finding spaces. kia may be one. VH sometimes does that. I've seen enayati do that. kaabi uses his quick feet to do that. but that's it. I cant recount anyone else doing so.

madanchi isnt intelligent enough to do so, despite his pace!
karimi is way too lazy to be bothered with such trivial things !
ando uses his quick feet for interception and disruption of opponents more than freeing himself for mates.
niki ? do we have to talk about him?
nekunam? not sure but I dont think he's as nimble as he shd be but he has had on and off days.

these are more or less the usual suspects for a TM line up in a game.

in fact this lack of movement is why sometimes players seem to be taking time to decide ... whereas they are actually trying to see who frees himself and dont find many runners or ppl moving into spaces. hence the delays in passing, and labels of "being slow decision makers" !

This is true, however there is a root cause for this. Ando commented that in Iran, the level of physical conditioning is low. Running and movement is only possible in a team of athletes in peak fitness.

Also, I must disagree with your example of Nekounam. Sure, he doesn't sprint all over the park, but he has the sixth sense of soccer or 'football intelligence'. He knows when to run, when to stay, when to go forward, when to support. He can read the game quite effortlessly. Although, he is seemingly casual in his approach, this is an illusion. He is the master of positioning. If you have any doubts, just read his statistics for Osasuna, where, in almost every game, he makes the most successful, unintercepted passes in the team. He is a very busy player on the field, but he does not unnecessarily waste energy.

[maij]

It is no good talking about the bygones , when Hashemian did this or Daei did that..... A team has to work within its present capabilities and resources.

Definition of a team , is a group of players and any team that depends on one or two players , where their absence will adversely affect the performance or results , cannot be considered as a serious contender for championship.

On the subject matter , I say , of course we need high quality striker(s) and would add one word to that... Consistency. I careless if Hashemian scored a goal a few moons ago against Korea , or Azizi against Australia. I need Hashemian and his mates to frequently repeat their scoring feats else he is just a figure that completes the 11 players.

on the subject of the midfield , which I personally think , is a serious problem despite the riches of talents and skills in Team Melli , it is either the game-plan by the coaches which is ineffective , or the inability of the players to apply themselves in the match. Whatever the reasons , it has created the present situation of goal drought.

we must not forget the "Route 1" , the good old English classical way of football. Balls deep from inside the defense directly to forwards or wingers.

All such plans require certain qualities that TM sees to be lacking at the moment.

[zzgloo]

We got so many intelegent posts on this thread...and they are the proof, this issue,is indeed dynamic........
here are some questions :

1-Is our mid-field functional ?
2-Are our forwards sub-par ?
3-Are the offensive coaching strategies at work ?


1-....

A= Kia is at the end of his football life,and has lost step.
B= karimi may have had nothing more than some nice dribles, and have recently lost that too, due to confusion of mixed coachings.
C= There are only few midfiled players who have nice touches to feed the offensive line....such as Navidkia,and Ando,and neko,or Kia, as other midfielders may be better in defensive duties,or individual skills,such as karimi,Madanchi,or Nikbakht..............
there are no inside,off-side trap beating passes....
there are no smooth flowing connection between defense and offense.
There are no, intelegent set kicks, or crosses, that are curved and go up fast, and then come down fast at the opponants 6 meter box.

2-.....

A= the Goal hashemian maid against korea last year,and tiped the ball over the korean Goalie....could have only been done by hashemian,,,,as we have no one,in our forwars, to have such combination of : killer instinct, fighting spirit, fast immidiate reflection, soft touch, and composure and psycological balance to handle it..............
all other forwards we have seem to not have all those qualities all at once. at skills alone may not be sufficient for that position.
There is no center forward to play as distributing point in the middle of the opponants defense.
There is no forward with good heading skills.
There is no forward with nice finishing touches, and missed fires are far too many,while we do have scoreing chances.


3-.......
Some believed all Branko had, was a set of two or three set sheems, mostly done through Kia,and kabei, to advance to the ball and create scoring opportunities...and nothing more...............yet, we can see, How ,even a two to three sheems ,can change the offense, let alone, Intire offensive strategies, which is designed based on the opponants gaps analysis, or streangth of our own offense...

[Doctor DOOM]

I absolutely agree on the lack of physical conditioning in iranian players in general.

I also agree with the need for a center forward, but that means we have to have 2 forwards line ups that allow for a center forward who holds the ball, feeds his partner or gets fed.
but unfortunately the crappy 4-2-3-1 formation seems to have set in !! I curse the day we were forced to adopt this sh*tty formation with absolutely no idea that our players do not fit into it ! I curse the idiot who brought it also.

[RaginG Inferno]

Definition of a team , is a group of players and any team that depends on one or two players , where their absence will adversely affect the performance or results , cannot be considered as a serious contender for championship.

Fabulous post. It is precisely for this reason, that we should not wildly exclaim "we need new forwards and everything will be fixed!". In fact, even if Dejagah plays for Iran up front, it will be a band-aid solution to the obvious problem: We are not creating scoring chances. A guy like Dejagah, Azizi or Daei can hide this problem with their lethal finishing.

Instead of hiding the problem, let's fix the system whereby we are in desperate need of an Ali Daei to save our team. Let's hire a coach that will establish a system of possession football, above all else.

[zzgloo]

We scored two Goals during the last WC....
Both by our defensive players !
we are a team that can not afford to waist the little opportunities our offense creates....specialy against better team.
when it comes to play against good teams, our offensive players have no punch.