Are we obsessed with the ability of a coach?

[Hajagha]

[TM-Fan]

I disagree. It really depends on your expectation from the next TM coach. Yes, even Arsen Wenger cannot do magic for Iran's football, but a good coach can help us reach the WC and even do relatively good there.

We have made/failed to make it to the last four WC's in extremely tight qualification games. Even in the last WC we were about to get eliminated in the preliminary round.

I don't see it any different this time around, specially with the addition of Australia. A good coach can definitely give us the extra edge that we need to get qualified. But I also agree that there are several factors involved in a football team success and coaching is just one of the several.

[zzgloo]

For the same reasons hajagha mentioned....we actualy need a good coach, and we need a foerign coach !!
If players are spoiled, and if a league is without deciplin, and if the culture is without management .....should we conclude , a good coach can not help ?
It is exactly to the contrary...., may be TM of Iran, needs the good coach more than anybody els.....
May be, highly deciplined European players, can do without a strong coach, but we more than any one, need a leader, and fucal point, manement, and programs.
It is said, the best future goverment for Iran, should have a Iron fist, and that is because, our culture only responds to that.
right now, the hamshahri news paper ( Monday eddition ), says, The haYAT ENTEKHABI, has been very impressed by Ghotbi's suggested program,and they have seen things in it, they had never thought possible !....
foerign coaches, particularly european ones, posses a high degree of deciplin, and minute to minute schedual and planning......as Domestic coaches , unfortunately come from the same ill culture.
If, Afshin Ghotbi, with little coaching experince, can out do all domestic coaches by his learned western effisiencies.....Imagin what a proffesional, decorated, deciplinarian like clemente can do .

[mkbf2]

For the same reasons hajagha mentioned....we actualy need a good coach, and we need a foerign coach !!
If players are spoiled, and if a league is without deciplin, and if the culture is without management .....should we conclude , a good coach can not help ?
It is exactly to the contrary...., may be TM of Iran, needs the good coach more than anybody els.....
May be, highly deciplined European players, can do without a strong coach, but we more than any one, need a leader, and fucal point, manement, and programs.
It is said, the best future goverment for Iran, should have a Iron fist, and that is because, our culture only responds to that.
right now, the hamshahri news paper ( Monday eddition ), says, The haYAT ENTEKHABI, has been very impressed by Ghotbi's suggested program,and they have seen things in it, they had never thought possible !....
foerign coaches, particularly european ones, posses a high degree of deciplin, and minute to minute schedual and planning......as Domestic coaches , unfortunately come from the same ill culture.
If, Afshin Ghotbi, with little coaching experince, can out do all domestic coaches by his learned western effisiencies.....Imagin what a proffesional, decorated, deciplinarian like clemente can do .

My thoughts exactly. Just to add; Iran is oozing with raw talent. We need someone who is educated and can create a "regime" that can discipline our players into a formidable force in football.

Look we all know that if it was by raw talent alone, Iran would qualify for the WC every time, but other countries run their football programs better, facilities included. Not only do we need a good coach, we need a good federation!

[BehzadB]

lol.. I love it..
right on the money haji

speaking of ordinary league 2 players .. I remember an Iranian coach who did that once.. I read somewhere it was actually a 3rd league division player that he chose .. and as you said, a coach that does that should have no intention of being popular and it just happens so that , the coach in question, didn't give damn about it and he never was that popular ... of course until he died..

RIP Dehdari...

[Doctor DOOM]

Reza jan, I think you can find ur answer in our WC06 campaign.

a good coach DOES matter.
a good coach, even inspite of our innumerable shortcomings and lacks will be able to cause major changes.

without going into methods of preparation in the run up to the WC games, I'll suffice to say a good, wise coach would have NEVER put all his eggs in one basket, expecting a miracle ... which never came.

a good coach would be able to work with what's given to him as well. yes, the output will not be as ideal as compared to what he is capable of turning out in a more accommodating environment. nevertheless, it will be a progress and improvement for us anyway.

a good coach in difficult situations will earn his money and our trust by acting accordingly, and certainly will NOT sit on the bench like a confused child who's just woken up to the reality that he's far too young for the battle that is suited for grown ups only, and he's being asked far too much, too often to come up empty handed.

let us not forget a lot of the stuff that happened in the run up to the WC and the actual WC games could have been handled better and were direct consequences of coaching.


so, to answer you, YES, A GOOD COACH DOES MAKE A LOT OF DIFFERENCE ... even with our lacks and deficiencies.

[Hajagha]

Thanks guys for your answers. However, as I mentioned in my initial post, I am not surprised by your obsession with “good coach” and given a “superman” role to a person.

As I mentioned in another words “a good, expensive, super digital Mac computer” can not be used as a “shovel”. Now, you go and bring me a world of reasons that such a computer is used in NASA several times and it’s proven it’s super computer. Baba, I need a shovel, I know this computer is thin too, but, it ain’t shovel.

Wake up guys, there is no fairy tail. We got our best ever team under the most stupid coach in 1996, called Mayeli-kohan. Or, you wanna tell me that you’ve seen some light of sharpness in the guy?

I will trade a world-class player with a world-class coach in any time in Iran situation. A world-class coach who has these static/snub players (with a big mafia behind them) for only few days before a game, can not do magic without a wand, you got a wand? Then it will be easy.

Doctor joon, in 2006, we needed a shovel to remove the big obstacle called “Daei” from the team. It’s not Arsen Wanger’s job, it’s Asghar-sag-sibil’s job to do so. Besides, we are not in WC situation yet when you have your team for a decent amount of time and any player (even lazy ones) gets motivated to show off.

I suggest you guys to watch Syria game one more time. Oh, don’t forget your cold beer for that matter.

Cheers,

[Ali Chicago]

I agree with the gist of what you are saying. I dont' think Haji is trying to deny the role of great coach, that is why he used teh word obssesed in the post. All he is saying is "our expectation is unrealistic from a coach" that as long as we have a good coach all of the other issues will be magically solved. Which it won't, I agree full heartedly with it.

[Ali Chicago]

Reza jan, I think you can find ur answer in our WC06 campaign.

...

so, to answer you, YES, A GOOD COACH DOES MAKE A LOT OF DIFFERENCE ... even with our lacks and deficiencies.

I don't think Haji denying the role of a good coach at all. He is saying a different thing. That is why he used "being obssesed" with the coach's ability.

[Doctor DOOM]

well, to me the word "obsessed" meant are we making too much of a deal of this issue.
and I think we HAVE TO. if to cover or rectify even a small area of our football, at least. coz otherwise, we'd under-achieve even more.

[zzgloo]

I agree with the gist of what you are saying. I dont' think Haji is trying to deny the role of great coach, that is why he used teh word obssesed in the post. All he is saying is "our expectation is unrealistic from a coach" that as long as we have a good coach all of the other issues will be magically solved. Which it won't, I agree full heartedly with it.

Ali jaan, salam.................where have you been ?
...........
hajagha e aziz, makes broad generalization, and calls all obssesed, and belives, the culture that desreves " Shovel", will have no use for computer !....which there may be some truth to that, and he appears to be very convinsed that is the case.....
But, with that mentality, how could we explain , Ghotbi's success ?
13 year old boy leaves the country, and studies in america, and only heading coach is with a university................and some video analysis with korea....and learns some deciplin on the west......
then all of the sudden , he goes back to Iran, after 30 some years, and starts the job, the very first week....and knowing nothing about the system, and still not knwoing.................and only being there for only 6 mounths !!
, and if you add that 6 point reduction of FIFA, he is well above all, I repeat " ALL ", domestic coaches .
How can with explain that ?.................
could it be, that ,the western deciplin can work in Iran too ??..........and iranians can improve with out side mentality ?
Could it be, that not only western system works in Iran, but also is better than what Iranians in Iran can offer ?

[Hajagha]

Ali jaan, salam.................where have you been ?
...........
hajagha e aziz, makes broad generalization, and calls all obssesed, and belives, the culture that desreves " Shovel", will have no use for computer !....which there may be some truth to that, and he appears to be very convinsed that is the case.....
But, with that mentality, how could we explain , Ghotbi's success ?
13 year old boy leaves the country, and studies in america, and only heading coach is with a university................and some video analysis with korea....and learns some deciplin on the west......
then all of the sudden , he goes back to Iran, after 30 some years, and starts the job, the very first week....and knowing nothing about the system, and still not knwoing.................and only being there for only 6 mounths !!
, and if you add that 6 point reduction of FIFA, he is well above all, I repeat " ALL ", domestic coaches .
How can with explain that ?.................
could it be, that ,the western deciplin can work in Iran too ??..........and iranians can improve with out side mentality ?
Could it be, that not only western system works in Iran, but also is better than what Iranians in Iran can offer ?

[Hajagha]

well, to me the word "obsessed" meant are we making too much of a deal of this issue.
and I think we HAVE TO. if to cover or rectify even a small area of our football, at least. coz otherwise, we'd under-achieve even more.

You have only a limited resource of time/energy/money. If you keep all your resources to fix some thing is not effective. Then I call it "obsession".

Otherwise, as Ali Chicago mentioned who said we don't need a coach?

As I mentioned, this view came to me after 10 years of being around guys like you with good knowledge of football, I don't expect you accept this in a blink. But I am sure a wise guy like you will get there.

Cheers,

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jaan, salam.................where have you been ?
...........
hajagha e aziz, makes broad generalization, and calls all obssesed, and belives, the culture that desreves " Shovel", will have no use for computer !....which there may be some truth to that, and he appears to be very convinsed that is the case.....
But, with that mentality, how could we explain , Ghotbi's success ?
13 year old boy leaves the country, and studies in america, and only heading coach is with a university................and some video analysis with korea....and learns some deciplin on the west......
then all of the sudden , he goes back to Iran, after 30 some years, and starts the job, the very first week....and knowing nothing about the system, and still not knwoing.................and only being there for only 6 mounths !!
, and if you add that 6 point reduction of FIFA, he is well above all, I repeat " ALL ", domestic coaches .
How can with explain that ?.................
could it be, that ,the western deciplin can work in Iran too ??..........and iranians can improve with out side mentality ?
Could it be, that not only western system works in Iran, but also is better than what Iranians in Iran can offer ?

Bahram Jaan,

Salam aziz, I am kind of upset about the whole Kaz ban and try to come to PFDC less to be honest. I feel there is a strong bias toward certain point of view (which is fine), but at times it is being forced upon and enforced forcefully to certain number of people who aren't subscribed to that point of view and speak up against it.

Back to the topic at hand. Please read your post. Your post I think clearly makes the piont that Haji points out. You see the PP success as a result of Ghotbi. You say no I didnt' mean it that way probably, but see you didnt' mention the role of Estili and Marzban and Azizian to bring really good players at teh end of season, role of Kashani and his pal who forced Ansarifard out, even role of Denizli from the last season and many other probable reasons that you and I aren't aware of.

I am not saying Ghotbi didnt' have a role. I wouldn't dare to say that, I am sure he had a role maybe bigger or smaller than what you and I claim. But nevertheles he did have a role (probably a very major one).

But to you all you mention from PP success is Ghotbi. I think this is the point Haji trying to make (hope not putting words into Haji's mouth, Haji please clarify, if I am right or wrong). Haji doesn't say Ghotbi or X or Y role is miniscule, he says Coach isnt' the only factor. As farsi saying goes abroo, baado mah khoorsheed va falak dar karand, ta too nanny be kaf aree va be ghaflet nakhoori. Now in football (one element granted a a major one is the coach) and a very important one mind you but not the only one.

Look at the threads in F+ or even worst in the main thread, how many threads about current and former head coaches? How many about other issues? That is the point.

[Doctor DOOM]

lol.
reza jan, take back your "hendooneh".
I'm just a simple minded fan, whose obsession may be, not with the coach, but with his TEAM MELLI, just like the rest of you.

to tell the truth, ( lloolll .... nazani-haaa ) I havent understood the thrust of this thread ( ) ......... really!
am just writing some crap, for the sake of writing !!


but if I am to quote ali when he said : "...he says Coach isnt' the only factor", I have to agree. success in football ( or anything else, for that matter ) is multi-factorial.
a coach is just ONE side of the multifaceted object. ( players, infrastructures, attitude, culture, money, ..... etc etc etc are others ).
so when you ask "are we obsessed with ability of a coach", I must say shdnt we be obsessed with the tires of a car that we drive? as much as we shd obsess with the engine, or lights, or the cabin space or ... . becoz we cant simply obsess about the car without obsessing about its different parts.

But at the same time, I dont see ANYONE claiming "once we get a good coach all our problems are solved".
which brings me to ....... ... what were you trying to say ?

( No. believe it or not, I'm NOT drunk . just dense, today )