Kuwait - Iran game.

[perspolees]

I see your point, but I am sure you saw the way our team played against USA team in Rose Ball back in 2000. Did you see the game? Those days, our team was able to peneterate and maintain possesion in offensive third of other teams.
Since 2005 I barely can watch any TM game where I see a good 7-8 passes in a row in the offensive thrid of the opposition. Changing the point of attack( switiching the ball). Maybe, my expectation has gone higher since I watch a lot of international football. But the team that came to US and played against Mexico and Ecuador or friendly game against USA later played much better in my opinion (under Poorhaydari). I don't expect Iran becomes Brazil, but I expect at least we dont' get worst.

thats exactly what I said!
we are a lucky go around be gooz band be chos peyvand kind of a team!!
we had a generation of good players and they lifted us on their personal capabilities..we have always been like that...after teh rev that is..before the rev our football was much organized and we worked hard and as such we were the undisputed king / dynasty of asia with back to back wins..

mozd an gereft ke kar kard...we suddenly have an iff, a coach and a team lol
and we are lucky oif we score a marvel like the one niki did on his personal technic thats it...sparks is all we are and have been..this coach or that, 4231, or 1-10, or bla bla... hamash k...shere!

[zzgloo]

and why is that, bahram jan?
why is niki such an excellent choice, even if he manages to achieve what he has not, in the past year ( which is lose weight ) ?

I have a feeling all those who tout niki as a good choice or those who give him high marks are heavily influenced by the goal ( that broke the 6 game drought ). as grateful as I am, but one goal does not make a man an excellent choice for a forward, especially the lone forward in this formation.
( take his goal out of the equation and your minds,if possible, and then assess his contribution throughout the game. what did he do that even warranted him staying on after the first half ? )
If bahram jan takes time to explain why niki is such a choice, perhaps I can understand and see it from his angle.

coz from MY angle, niki while having the right skeleton and height for such a role, lacks the intelligence and the skills for it.

payman e Aziz..........
I will probably repeating myself, as most things I am going to say , I had said it often, in many threads...regarding : Foundemental need for a center forward: ( which many here thought it is not so foundemental, as they thought,the game plan is more important ).

First, lets get to this issue,that is phylosophical differenece !
An Ideal football team, should have good coaching,and planing,and the right pieces ( Mohreh ), to implement its plans.
For an offensive coach.....the best plan of action, IS NOT, to prepare defense,and midfield, to get the ball,to the areas of opponant , and creat goal chances !, although, nice as it may sound......
But, better plan of action, is first to know what you can do, in the 18 of opponant, and then plan to set your forwards up, by midfield plans that would feed such activities on the 18 of the opponanat.
In another words,as it is also the case in the Mathematical problems, we need to have an idea,about how the problem should end,and then connect the dots !!!!!!!!!!!
For such offensive phylosophy, a center forward is essential....as he is not just supporting stricker, but a finisher,and a disterbutor.
A center forward is :
1-An Island of stability,in the heart of the enemy ( Like a aircraft carrier in the naval attacks ).
2-A fucal ponit, and some one who keeps the defense honest.
3-Creats, and orchestrat a attacking set ups,by his play without the ball.
4-he could also be instrumental in defense.
..........................
................................
He should have following qualities :

1- Tall.
2- Arrogant.
3-Bully.
4-opportunistic.
5-killer instinct.
6-fast,in dicision makeing.
7-playful.
8-experinced.
9-Smart.
10-possess skills ( heading,kicks,etc.)
..........................................
After these introductions, now I want to explain: " why Nikbakht" :
Nobody,played well,in Kuwait game, to single out nikbakht, nor the coaching is experinced enough to get players active at thier positions.Obviousely, daei did not possess all the perfect qualities either, and also, the foundemental need of TM for such players, specialy with our " slow pace football ":
Nikbakht, is not a new phenomina, as we have long followed his less than perfect currier, and know his imaturerities.
we, used to say, that we missed him alot during the last WC, as he seemed very promising at the time, but he was never " Invested on " !!
As you said, he has the Physics,....more over he is arrogant, and has experince, as he has always been in top scoreing charts,of our league, even where he played less ,at the forwards, yet his style, always has been toward the opponanats' Goal, and he wants to move forward.
With such a drought at that possission in our football, and after loss of daei, No one has his :
Thurst, his physic, his arrogance, his hight, his experince, his killer instinct.
If he is invested on, and had personal trainer, and counted on...he could be the best replacement for Daei,may be even better !!.............and with , demising, hashemian,and naive set of forwards we have......he will be a major force. ( That we desperately need ) !

[Hajagha]

......I do not know, if such country as Iran, needs as suffisticated a fan base, as we are .

I really wonder too. In comparsion to the other nations, we are really crazy (you may read it stupid if you don't get offended).

You either love football or you don't care and both show in your national team. We are really unique in this fashion.

I really wonder how our friends here spend so much time to write (and maybe read) so much details about some thing like this?

Let's change the subject, start from DD, Doctor joon, how do you write this much about this game or this team? Really?

[Doctor DOOM]

bahram jan, you certainly do make a good case for niki .

all the requisites you mentioned are correct. and from what wrote, it seems niki satisfies most of them.
I'm willing to see if he can sustain an acceptable level of performance in that position for at least 2-3 games. who knows. maybe as you said, he IS the answer to our search for the lone striker in this formation.

Altho' I think we all agree he needs to lose a few kilos and get more nimble and agile. he isnt at the moment.

============

reza jan, che konim, bro.
it's this tremendous attachment to TM that compels me to write and even forego my loyalty to daei even.
btw, most of the stuff & points are written as I watch the game. and I just expand it a bit more after the game.

[Hajagha]

reza jan, che konim, bro.
it's this tremendous attachment to TM that compels me to write and even forego my loyalty to daei even.
btw, most of the stuff & points are written as I watch the game. and I just expand it a bit more after the game.

Yah, but there is nothing to talk about. The problem is so basic and obvious that we don't need to dig.

Look, our over 40 team in Canada run more than the average player run in whole Iran... and we are bunch of guys play only for fun. When in a team, their best player (Karimi) is heavier than their coach (Daei), or you don't see a sequence of 3 passes, what you wanna talk about?

You wanna come and make a case out of us? We score more goals and we offer beer after the game too.

I tell you what, let's talk about real football, Arsenal, Barca, Man-United, France, Brazil, even USA,... otherwise these people we talk about now, they don't deserve such an attention. bunch of A$$-H@@@s who have no diginity even to keep themselves in shape for what they are paid for.

These people shuold go and play fantasy football.

[Ali Chicago]

Not to brag or anything, but did u guys saw the thread Mansoor posted in the main forum (the show in teh Tapesh that he had with Mehran Molkara and interview with Payroovani and Namjoo motlagh and Omid Namazi)?

I don't have Tapesh and couldn't see that show on Satelite tv. But I am glad to see they pointed out many of the problmes I have been saying all along about our team (slow Sayed Jalal, uncordinated Hosseini, Benghar pair, slow team speed, Rahmati's short comings, the space behind the Gholamnezhad and Baykzadeh that got abused by Kuwaitits.

I specially loved it when Omid Namazi mentioned how deep our defense plays which in turn elongates the depth of the field for our team. Omid Namazi is a professional coach in US (coched San Diego Woman pro team in the WSL in US) and now coaches an indoor soccer team in the indoor pro league and according to Mehran he is being considered for the coaching job in Metro Stars in the MSL.

Namazi said about the physical conditioning of Iranina players and how sub par it is among Iraniain plaeyrs. This problem in trun translates to not moving without the ball, not supporting the ball carrier, not pressering the oppositon player or not marking the oppostion players who move around.

I have been saying these things all along, but it was good to hear it from them, to get a verification that I am in the "Bagh".

[zzgloo]

In that , program,ali jaan is talking about, Molkala,was asked which coaching candidate he thought was better ?.............
and his answer was : " NON " !
We, our players, and our league, and our coaches are so behind, that those who believed, domestic coach would be better, must have had something in thier tea !
Only, a foerign coach can , stay aside from all, distractions, and only a foerign coach can make us " over-achive " !.....and only with a team, based on legioners fram work .
Ali Daei, is so wrong in believeing we can do without them, and he is so wrong that he think he can make ' whole sale-changes " in player selection...as if we are so rich,.... which we are not !.....
the level of experince among domestic players, and the level of football knowledge among our domestic coaches are so low...that, we have no choise but to be dependent on foerign players, and foerign coaches....
Why els, all who have spent a year or two , playing in foerign lands ,are so successful among our coaches ?...on thier very first year !!.............
what hajagha, suggesting to pay more attention to thier over-40 team, is not so funny.....and they may very well, go to Iran, and coach, and win the league !.....
and thats how pethatic our situation is !
.................................................. ..........
Payman Jaan,......... if only, the coaching staff asign a personal trainer for him, For his, stamina, weight,and new duties as center forward !

[Doctor DOOM]

bahram jan, now you are expecting ppl to assign a personal trainer for this one player, who somehow MAY fit the role of lone forward.
and then assign other ppl to train him on the duties and tasks of this lone forward post.
then what's next ?


My belief, as you well know, is :
I say we shdnt even THINK about the single forward formation in the first place, .... let alone waste time searching for the right forward for the job.

look at it this way: when we have such a difficult time to find a forward/player who could satisfy the specific duties of this role, and have to bring a midfielder , albeit a heavy over-weight one, to fit into the role, we ought to know WE ARE IN TROUBLE. and that this formation IS NOT THE ANSWER.

look. almost everything is pointing out to this fact that we are NOT ready for such a formation. simply becoz we DO NOT HAVE the right players for it.

I dont see why we shd persist so much on a matter while the answer has been screaming at us for a few years now.
why?


and mind you, if we find Niki the ideal one for this, after such a long search.
but when he isnt a 90 minute forward, what are we to do?
play him for the 45 minutes that he can be useful ..... and then what ?
1- play a sub player who CANT deliver the specific duties?
or
2- revert to a different formation.
right?
which means the WHOLE team's orientation and roles and duties shd be changed and modified with one player's exit !!!

so basically we are f**king up one whole team becoz of ONE player, who cant even sustain himself for more than 45 minutes !!!!!!!!!!

does that even make sense ?

arent we bending backward and sacrificing a larger entity ( majority ) for an idea that suits an extreme minority ?
an idea that we've seen month after month, game after game, that has more failure than success ?

again I'm compelled to ask: WHY THE INSISTENCE ON THIS GODDAMNED FORMATION?

[perspolees]

Not to brag or anything, but did u guys saw the thread Mansoor posted in the main forum (the show in teh Tapesh that he had with Mehran Molkara and interview with Payroovani and Namjoo motlagh and Omid Namazi)?
I don't have Tapesh and couldn't see that show on Satelite tv. But I am glad to see they pointed out many of the problmes I have been saying all along about our team (slow Sayed Jalal, uncordinated Hosseini, Benghar pair, slow team speed, Rahmati's short comings, the space behind the Gholamnezhad and Baykzadeh that got abused by Kuwaitits.
I specially loved it when Omid Namazi mentioned how deep our defense plays which in turn elongates the depth of the field for our team. Omid Namazi is a professional coach in US (coched San Diego Woman pro team in the WSL in US) and now coaches an indoor soccer team in the indoor pro league and according to Mehran he is being considered for the coaching job in Metro Stars in the MSL.
Namazi said about the physical conditioning of Iranina players and how sub par it is among Iraniain plaeyrs. This problem in trun translates to not moving without the ball, not supporting the ball carrier, not pressering the oppositon player or not marking the oppostion players who move around.
I have been saying these things all along, but it was good to hear it from them, to get a verification that I am in the "Bagh".

Please kno u r much better than comparing urself to namazi trust me on that! was just an fyi

[zzgloo]

payman e aziz....
For so much time, even till today, we seem to have had too many midfiled players......which this phenamina, may have some type of socio-pyscological explanation, which is not our topic here, yet, it has been true,for some reasons...............
It also has been the case, we have had, far too many " Supportive strickers ", and almost no " central forward " or a " Finisher ".......
This, also may be to some, psycological gaps,within our culture, etc.. ...., yet, it,also has been true........
It is not matter of single forward formation !, it is matter of " Converging our offensive efforts ".....or , the end, to the " confusion at the 18 of the opponants ".........
For too long, it seems, our " football doctorin ",( as elementary as it may be ), prefers to go to the corners, and cross the ball, rather than ' take the ball inside the 18 '......., or there is the fear of getting close to the opponanats' 18, so much so, very few of our forwards, have the compposure, to at least kick the ball , within the goal bounderies...and they, the forwards, have far too many ,and abnormal,out of box shots, or mis-kicks !
...........In recent years, other than daei years, almost all our goals, were scored by, midfileders, or even backs,rather than our forwards......only, because, there is no finisher !, and supportive strickers,are just not the ones who can do them...........
there is also, the other unfortunate phenamina, in our football, and that is , inability, to Kick the ball..............
some, such as Branko, believed, our tradition of playing in " Bad " football fields, has created a psycology, that players need to stop the ball, and have complete control the ball, before they attempt to kick..............which also has caused , hasitations, and waist of time, as well as bad kicks, and consiquently missed chances.
.............................
So, there are more than one reason, we " DO NEED A FINISHER "......

[Doctor DOOM]

bahram jan, you are right about the habits of our football players and teams.

you are also correct, on principle, on converging all our efforts on the last man who touches the ball last, before it crosses the goal-line.
but I say by limiting our options to ONE man, instead of TWO, we make marking and nullifying of this target easier for the opponent.

you are, again, correct on the matter of our goals coming more from midfielders than strikers in recent times.
but there's reason behind it.
becoz we were unfortunate ... nay, I shd say BAD-BAKHT enough to have a moron coaching us and trying to change our nature and style from an offensive minded football to a defensive one. by packing the midfield and assigning not one, but TWO defensive mids, and hence REDUCING the number of strikers from the group. to top that, he persisted with an aging star unnecessarily and so much that nobody else got a chance at surfacing as an alternative or even a future replacement to him !

all of which spells one thing: diminished success for the striker(s), gradual impotency of the team in offense, and with more number of midfielders, mathematically more chances of any of the 5 players getting a goal than the 1 ( forward ) up front.

notice I didnt even go towards the fact that the moron rarely agreed to be tested against even a half-decent team, for us to notice how we are regressing. so this disease had set in a long time BEFORE poor GN took the reigns. the only thing is with skillful manipulation, branko succeeded to avoid being tested and evaluated until it was too late ( WC ) !!!

[Ali Chicago]

Please kno u r much better than comparing urself to namazi trust me on that! was just an fyi

I met him only once when he was coaching the SD women team and he seemed very knowledgable. I took my daughter to watch their practice and after that I talked to Omid Namazi. He seemed very knowledgable. Plus he is coachign professionally and getting paid for it, so I assume he knows more than I do. I dont' know him personally and this post wasn't trying to promote him by any means.
But thanks for the FYI. Never hurts to know.

[Doctor DOOM]

doesnt AGHILI's excellent performance today make us pause and rue our luck that our young coach was wrong in keeping aghili off the roster against kuwait?
coupled with the SERIES of mistakes by aghili's replacement , bengar and how he was totally out of synch with hosseini !!!

I know I feel very bad. coz one wise decision could have easily meant we come out of kuwait game with all 3 points and didnt have to argue and fight, or get the calculators out to check which scenario will mean what for our advancement !!

inexperience in coaching shows itself in these situations !

[zzgloo]

Daei said,after the game : " This was the best kuwait I had ever seen before, I did not think they could play this good "
................
So much for out coaching the opponants and firgureing them out !