Hunger & Motivation to what extent ?

[maij]

I understand that payman jaan......but, I did not see much acknowledgment ( let alone encouragment ) of those with Objective views !....
I saw more generalizations .

What is your suggesting in this matter? We will surely take aboard.

BTW: There is a button on every thread that one can express his gratitude , encouragement or admiration for the post. It is called "Thanks" button. This is the way that a member can express his/her feeling towards the subject matter or the author.

There is also another way which you can "REP" the author by increasing his power of representation.

All these are available for the members. It is not forced by the staff or moderators neither are they influenced by it.

Perhaps it might not be perfect , but it is giving members freedom of expression , but like I said , we are open to suggestions and improvement if it is a viable and technically possible.

[zzgloo]

What is your suggesting in this matter? We will surely take aboard.

BTW: There is a button on every thread that one can express his gratitude , encouragement or admiration for the post. It is called "Thanks" button. This is the way that a member can express his/her feeling towards the subject matter or the author.

There is also another way which you can "REP" the author by increasing his power of representation.

All these are available for the members. It is not forced by the staff or moderators neither are they influenced by it.

Perhaps it might not be perfect , but it is giving members freedom of expression , but like I said , we are open to suggestions and improvement if it is a viable and technically possible.

Majid Jaan......thanks for takeing time and careing to respond.

here is my suggestion :

Following our exchanges, and the one I had with Mansoor not so long ago, under a thread " Interesting developement on Ghotbi ",in which we had heated,yet very respectful,exchanges,...I have come to the conclusion that..
Many staffs and modarators here are just " fed-up" ,with the amount of Bull-shit and nagging comeing from the youth in this site. and these mods, may be you included, unconsiously, write with braod generalizations ,and only regard those youth as members,as if the are no one els here.( some mods,not you, even go as far as talking as if they are sheperd of a hurd ) !!

My suggestion : " Do n't do that ".

[maij]

Majid Jaan......thanks for takeing time and careing to respond.

here is my suggestion :

Following our exchanges, and the one I had with Mansoor not so long ago, under a thread " Interesting developement on Ghotbi ",in which we had heated,yet very respectful,exchanges,...I have come to the conclusion that..
Many staffs and modarators here are just " fed-up" ,with the amount of Bull-shit and nagging comeing from the youth in this site. and these mods, may be you included, unconsiously, write with braod generalizations ,and only regard those youth as members,as if the are no one els here.( some mods,not you, even go as far as talking as if they are sheperd of a hurd ) !!

My suggestion : " Do n't do that ".

Bahram Jan... Excuse if I misunderstood your suggestion , in all honestly , I have not got it properly, but feel free to correct me ...I will also like to apologize for the Doc for Hijacking this post , we might need to open a separate one , if required.

To start with , most of our staff are young (much much younger than me and you) and I do believe they are doing a good job. However , they are people with certain talents , ability , preferences and writing style that is special to them.

It is simply neither practicable nor possible to impose certain writing style on all and tell each one (me included) what style to use and what not.

We have to admit , that not all of what the staff say or do , is to the liking of all , but we do not cater for individual preferences or moods else we will be running a day care center.

By giving the staff their assignments, remembering that they do that at their own free time , we have to accept that they should be given the freedom within the byelaw's of the PFDC and its policies to say or do what they think is right. Actions such as deleting threads or banning members , will not be popular. But , unfortunately , the staff need to police the forums , else........of course you know what will happen.

I do try myself to avoid generalization , but if you get offended anytime we refer to a subject that you do not agree with , please do not think that you are personally targeted. It is not the intention of PFDC to target the good and the valuable members of this board. Take this as definite policy. If you are in doubt , you can refer to any staff or the webmaster and you are welcome to pledge a complaint any time.

I hope I addressed your concern , please feel free to correct me.

[Doctor DOOM]

and if you really think about it, you'd agree Daei is being treated unfairly by all those who post ridiculing or hateful posts as soon as he does something.

at the moment, the many are picking on Daei complaining about the refs.
and the mob mentality has made it into a mass attitude.
but apart from the FACT that daei and other coaches have A LOT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE SHODDY WAY our referees judge games, I must say arent there a LOT of other coaches who do so as well?
why nobody picks on them ?
why not start such threads on each and every coach who complains about refs ( justifiably or not ) ?

shall we revisit parvin's behavior when things dont go according to his liking?
( boy, we can fill up the whole forum with this one )
what about misaghian who blames the ref, the ground, the ball, the crowd, the grass, weather, .... for his failings?
what about karimi who resorts to childish sarcastic remarks that serve only the kids in the audience?
what about shahgholam who bursts an artery in his neck, everytime his team is undone by mistakes of the ref ?
what about ....
there are numerous examples of such attitude and behavior.

not everyone is ghotbi, who takes things in a calmer, more pro manner.
he is the EXCEPTION in our football. he is NOT the rule.
and this is his first year, btw. I'd like to see him after 3 years of coaching in Iran and see if he has maintained this level of calm and professionalism

But every coach has his vices. why doesnt everyone pick on these guys ?

becoz Daei has been a sensitive issue with the iranian fans and media.
our ppl "enjoy" bringing ppl down from a higher status. it is perverse, but sadly very true also.
we're in 21st century and we still havent changed our ways: instead of LIFTING ourselves to become equal to our betters, we try to drag those ppl above us down to equalize matters !


===============

I'll reluctantly add this too:
I think majid's thread was in line with a MILLION other threads that most of us start or partake in that aim to boost up the morale of the fans as well as generate positive & good wishes for the TM. especially in this very trying times.
havent we had a billion such threads before, whenever TM had some games in the offing? WCQ's. WC games. ACQ's. AC games. and now, WCQ's again.
remember all those "mashalah XXX" or "salavaat baraye XXX" or "In support of XXX" or ... titles ?
what's the big deal ?
why sully such threads with negative bickering and criticism when the whole IDEA of the thread is something else ?
they're generated to show support for a team or player or a coach at a time that they need it. simple. they are not threads dissecting this team or person to see what the pros and cons are.


I said reluctantly coz to be frank, I, personally dont believe in threads as I believe those ppl dont read our posts anyway. so what we say here will NOT have any bearing on that team or player or coach anyway.
but it merely serves to rally ppl behind the subject.
( again. god knows what rallying of a bunch of ppl 1000's of miles away from that team or player would do for them !!!! )
but I dont like ppl turning these threads into discussion & dissection of ppl's virtues and vices.

[zzgloo]

Bahram Jan... Excuse if I misunderstood your suggestion , in all honestly , I have not got it properly, but feel free to correct me ...I will also like to apologize for the Doc for Hijacking this post , we might need to open a separate one , if required.

To start with , most of our staff are young (much much younger than me and you) and I do believe they are doing a good job. However , they are people with certain talents , ability , preferences and writing style that is special to them.

It is simply neither practicable nor possible to impose certain writing style on all and tell each one (me included) what style to use and what not.

We have to admit , that not all of what the staff say or do , is to the liking of all , but we do not cater for individual preferences or moods else we will be running a day care center.

By giving the staff their assignments, remembering that they do that at their own free time , we have to accept that they should be given the freedom within the byelaw's of the PFDC and its policies to say or do what they think is right. Actions such as deleting threads or banning members , will not be popular. But , unfortunately , the staff need to police the forums , else........of course you know what will happen.

I do try myself to avoid generalization , but if you get offended anytime we refer to a subject that you do not agree with , please do not think that you are personally targeted. It is not the intention of PFDC to target the good and the valuable members of this board. Take this as definite policy. If you are in doubt , you can refer to any staff or the webmaster and you are welcome to pledge a complaint any time.

I hope I addressed your concern , please feel free to correct me.

Majid e Aziz ,

First things , first......I am very happy to be a syber friend ,( Hopefuly )of such people as you ( as I am convinced that you are a man of honor ),and many others....( payman,Ali Chicago, smanhoobi, behzad -b, Faraz,Kamran Delan,yashar, etc.....).
I have ,no complaints....I am just happy you guys do not kick me out,and accepted me in this small communty of ours.

Just becuase , I see, you have a " Gooshe Shenava ", I continue with what has been in my mind for the last two and half years...as this issue, defenetly ,is not new to me. You should take it only as a friendly talk....nothing more...and I have absolutly no expectations or demand of any particular out come.
.........................

To clear this issue more, I must say that :

It is not about Ali Daie,
It is not about me being offended,(although,Imust admit I have felt that way some times ).
It is not about any complaints,
It is not about any style of writeing,
It is not about,not being greatful of, hard working ,well intentioned,young Mods.

.........................
It could be however, a suggestion to improve PFDC.
.........................

If, the staff needs to police the forum,as you mentioned, why can n't they do it more correctly....as they are intelegent young people...and I am sure , during a staff meeting by a conference call,or chating room...."the policeing ",can be better comprehended.

Police department as you know, belongs to the exacutive branch, and not Judicial branch...hence, no judgemnts !,no teachings,no preventing,no discourageing,..etc.... only penalties based on not obaying the policies !

If , PFDC, has to have a comprehensive policy and can not change it for any particular individuals.......,
Is n't it better, for an International site, such as PFDC, to base its policy based on the Universal Human rights ? , and total freedom of speech ? so long as it does not deviate from policies ?

Is n't it better, for Mods, to assume all members are adult, wise, intelegent ,with total ,not partial,human rights ? instead of " Bunch of adelecent spoiled rats " ?

This kids ,and I, might not , deserve such accumidations ........But, that should not be any bussiness of PFDC.

I belive ,firmly,contrary to PFDC's assumption, this policy will be practical....and not hard !....because, the Mods have to do less,and not more !

Thanks for your " fairness " .

[maij]

and if you really think about it, you'd agree Daei is being treated unfairly by all those who post ridiculing or hateful posts as soon as he does something.

at the moment, the many are picking on Daei complaining about the refs.
and the mob mentality has made it into a mass attitude.
but apart from the FACT that daei and other coaches have A LOT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE SHODDY WAY our referees judge games, I must say arent there a LOT of other coaches who do so as well?
why nobody picks on them ?
why not start such threads on each and every coach who complains about refs ( justifiably or not ) ?

shall we revisit parvin's behavior when things dont go according to his liking?
( boy, we can fill up the whole forum with this one )
what about misaghian who blames the ref, the ground, the ball, the crowd, the grass, weather, .... for his failings?
what about karimi who resorts to childish sarcastic remarks that serve only the kids in the audience?
what about shahgholam who bursts an artery in his neck, everytime his team is undone by mistakes of the ref ?
what about ....
there are numerous examples of such attitude and behavior.

not everyone is ghotbi, who takes things in a calmer, more pro manner.
he is the EXCEPTION in our football. he is NOT the rule.
and this is his first year, btw. I'd like to see him after 3 years of coaching in Iran and see if he has maintained this level of calm and professionalism

But every coach has his vices. why doesnt everyone pick on these guys ?

becoz Daei has been a sensitive issue with the iranian fans and media.
our ppl "enjoy" bringing ppl down from a higher status. it is perverse, but sadly very true also.
we're in 21st century and we still havent changed our ways: instead of LIFTING ourselves to become equal to our betters, we try to drag those ppl above us down to equalize matters !


===============

I'll reluctantly add this too:
I think majid's thread was in line with a MILLION other threads that most of us start or partake in that aim to boost up the morale of the fans as well as generate positive & good wishes for the TM. especially in this very trying times.
havent we had a billion such threads before, whenever TM had some games in the offing? WCQ's. WC games. ACQ's. AC games. and now, WCQ's again.
remember all those "mashalah XXX" or "salavaat baraye XXX" or "In support of XXX" or ... titles ?
what's the big deal ?
why sully such threads with negative bickering and criticism when the whole IDEA of the thread is something else ?
they're generated to show support for a team or player or a coach at a time that they need it. simple. they are not threads dissecting this team or person to see what the pros and cons are.


I said reluctantly coz to be frank, I, personally dont believe in threads as I believe those ppl dont read our posts anyway. so what we say here will NOT have any bearing on that team or player or coach anyway.
but it merely serves to rally ppl behind the subject.
( again. god knows what rallying of a bunch of ppl 1000's of miles away from that team or player would do for them !!!! )
but I dont like ppl turning these threads into discussion & dissection of ppl's virtues and vices.

Damet Garm Peyman Jan...

Vagen Gol Kardi...

What you have said in this post got much higher value and points than anything that I have tried to say. Good on you.

Thanks.

[maij]

Majid e Aziz ,

First things , first......I am very happy to be a syber friend ,( Hopefuly )of such people as you ( as I am convinced that you are a man of honor ),and many others....( payman,Ali Chicago, smanhoobi, behzad -b, Faraz,Kamran Delan,yashar, etc.....).
I have ,no complaints....I am just happy you guys do not kick me out,and accepted me in this small communty of ours.

Just becuase , I see, you have a " Gooshe Shenava ", I continue with what has been in my mind for the last two and half years...as this issue, defenetly ,is not new to me. You should take it only as a friendly talk....nothing more...and I have absolutly no expectations or demand of any particular out come.
.........................

To clear this issue more, I must say that :

It is not about Ali Daie,
It is not about me being offended,(although,Imust admit I have felt that way some times ).
It is not about any complaints,
It is not about any style of writeing,
It is not about,not being greatful of, hard working ,well intentioned,young Mods.

.........................
It could be however, a suggestion to improve PFDC.
.........................

If, the staff needs to police the forum,as you mentioned, why can n't they do it more correctly....as they are intelegent young people...and I am sure , during a staff meeting by a conference call,or chating room...."the policeing ",can be better comprehended.

Police department as you know, belongs to the exacutive branch, and not Judicial branch...hence, no judgemnts !,no teachings,no preventing,no discourageing,..etc.... only penalties based on not obaying the policies !

If , PFDC, has to have a comprehensive policy and can not change it for any particular individuals.......,
Is n't it better, for an International site, such as PFDC, to base its policy based on the Universal Human rights ? , and total freedom of speech ? so long as it does not deviate from policies ?

Is n't it better, for Mods, to assume all members are adult, wise, intelegent ,with total ,not partial,human rights ? instead of " Bunch of adelecent spoiled rats " ?

This kids ,and I, might not , deserve such accumidations ........But, that should not be any bussiness of PFDC.

I belive ,firmly,contrary to PFDC's assumption, this policy will be practical....and not hard !....because, the Mods have to do less,and not more !

Thanks for your " fairness " .

The quality of any forum is dependent on the quality of the posters and the items that they write. We will be always proud of valuable members who add such values that enhances the support for Persian football , show affection and support and when talking about negatives of our football ( and by God there are a plenty) they do you it in a constructive and civilized manner without restoring to hateful and hostile messages.

I doubt that anyone even thought about you being the bad party. Your discussions and threads have always been received well and I have always joined in with my two cents.

I understand what you are saying , and we will take it aboard. But pardon me to say that it is difficult to implement fully simply because of sheer amount of differing behavior and class of people that come here and post.

Once gain , do not get offended by any staff that posts a general message , even if it is not too your liking. If you feel strongly , then communicate and air your views on the subject matter.

I know it is difficult sometimes , but think of this. Shall I get offended because there is a Police Station a few hundred meters from my house ? I am not a criminal ,so why do I need a policemen in my vicinity?

As for policies of freedom of speech , it is already there and we believe in it within the bounds of the bylaws. But as we have all experienced , many misinformed members think that freedom of speech includes a free ride to bashing , insulting , using profanity and slandering others.

Interesting that you mentioned human rights , which is basically respect for others regardless of color , race , creed , handicap or language. This human rights is certainly violated when a member here ridicules Daei ethnic background and his speech impediment! Yet he goes to a lengthy discussion on how Daei shouts and complains about referees and what have you.

Do you seriousely think that is member takes human rights seriously???

Many of the members who cry for freedom of speech are the ones who violate it , conveniently twisting facts to show their hatred rather than showing disapproval by constructive criticism.

In ideal world , we do not need mods and staff in a forum , like I do not need a police station next to me. Unfortunately we are not living in an ideal world.

I want to highlight one point that Peyman has mentioned , because it is a very important message.

" our ppl "enjoy" bringing ppl down from a higher status. it is perverse, but sadly very true also.
we're in 21st century and we still haven't changed our ways: instead of LIFTING ourselves to become equal to our betters, we try to drag those ppl above us down to equalize matters !"

That is absolutely a strong message which show how we have culturally failed in the long run. People from a President of a country down to the street sweeper have their vices. Instead of us promoting our assets and heroes , we tend to bringing them down at the earliest hint of a mistake or misdeed.

In my opinion , we will only excel if we have more positive forces within us than evil.

Thank for your interesting post and concern.

[zzgloo]

We may continue with more football related issues....as maij jaan, I realy do not want to be one of those Iranians Payman is talking about...and I do not want to bring any one down with me .

And as I said earlier...I have no expectation...so everything is cool !
Yet, my last word on this matter is that : You are looking at the issue from top to bottom .not bottom to top.
You do not see the squeeze felt at the recieveing end.....
Why do you think Ali-chicago comes to this site less often ?
Should n't we gather more positive forces ?

[Doctor DOOM]

ma mokhles-e majid jan & bahram jan va baghiyeh hastim.


I guess we are OVER-analyzing this issue now.
I try to simplify the issue so we can get past it.
Majid started a thread meaning to rally the crowd behind TM and its coach, who is under tremendous pressure ( half of it, HE is responsible for ) & is receiving a lot of criticism from all quarters. I assume his thinking was to create a positive atmosphere right before the WCQ's where TM NEEDS some calm and positive support.

Bahram along with many others are also saying daei is not perfect ( which he is not indeed ) and we all shd be allowed to discuss these imperfections.

Ed: But perhaps we can do so in separate threads.


and I think we all agree there are a lot of kids in general forum who comment and accuse and berate X or Y not after logically reasoning the pros & cons of the issue at hand, but from a more base and emotional ( mass & mob mentality included ) stand point, which not only doesnt help with the quality of the forum, it also sustains the negative atmosphere around the TM camp !

God knows Daei has faults. but there are methods & places to discussing it.


================

and btw, bahram jan, YOU are not the target of my comments, bro.
it is those little juvenile kids who just say some rubbish for the sake of going along with the crowd. those who act & comment with no sound logic behind it.

and thank god for F+ and its rules that has distinguished the quality members like you all and the rest of those delinquents.

again, thank god for F+ coz we know there's nothing really inane or malicious about what members discuss or say here.
............. unless someone opens the pandora's box and starts praising branko ... after which I'll go nuclear on their arses by proclaiming maliciously that they are inane.
but apart from that, I think we're ok here.
so I dont know why you say Ali is visiting less frequently. in fact we were discussing ss matters in the other thread here.

[zzgloo]

Thanks payman ,and thanks majid , ma niz mokhlesim...........
I think payman is right about me, and I may have over analysed this ....and I thank majid for his patience.....and for finality of this, and to say a " Salavat ", I request Majid e aziz, to PM Ali-chicago, and make sure we do not lose him in this site.....I hope I am mistakeing here....but it does not hurt !
I will owe you a big one majid jan if you do that.
I know why I over analysed. May be is the PFDC's fault, or may be I get offended,when talked down to, which I should n't.....may be I am too old to cope !,or not psycologicaly balanced......either way, may be there is a good reason,people my age do not often come to this kind of sites ! ......It is not made for us .

[Doctor DOOM]

bahram jan, nobody talks down to members like you. that much I'm sure of.
I havent seen it anytime.

[maij]

Thanks payman ,and thanks majid , ma niz mokhlesim...........
I think payman is right about me, and I may have over analysed this ....and I thank majid for his patience.....and for finality of this, and to say a " Salavat ", I request Majid e aziz, to PM Ali-chicago, and make sure we do not lose him in this site.....I hope I am mistakeing here....but it does not hurt !
I will owe you a big one majid jan if you do that.
I know why I over analysed. May be is the PFDC's fault, or may be I get offended,when talked down to, which I should n't.....may be I am too old to cope !,or not psycologicaly balanced......either way, may be there is a good reason,people my age do not often come to this kind of sites ! ......It is not made for us .

Bahram Agha

First of ll I am not aware of an exchanges that have upset Ali , so if you can fill me in , I have no problem whatsoever to PM Ali. What is the story ?

About being over-sensitive, trust me Agha Bahram , I am in the same boat...( ask my wife , she will tell you all about it ) . It is true that at our age group , we tend to become more sensitive. Far from claiming that I have a solution, I can only say to myself to be more positive, which works in most cases.
One thing I enjoy about discussions and forums is that one can learn from others like I have during these exchanges. That can only be positive , but there are the negative side a well.

Like Peyman said , Thank God for Football+ though.

[Ali Chicago]

Guys;

Everything is fine as far as I am concerned. I was disappointed at the decision to ban Kaz two months ago and in that decision Agha Majid or Payman had no role.

I totally respect both of these members and for that matter Behzad, Armin Kasra, Yashar Mansoor, ...... .

In a civilized society disagreement and variety of opinion is tolerated and encouraged as a matter of fact. So to make sure it is clear, I have no quirm with anyone.

Like I said, I beleive when Kaz was banned, it was very unfair that only he got banned and not other involved parties by Mansoor. But I don't have a say in that kind of issues.

I got banned msyself twice and despite that, I come back here siince I love football and love to play it and talk about it.

Agha majid and I may have different opinions about many issues, but there is no point in getting upset about things. I have never felt Agha Majid disrespected me or Payman or for that matter any member of PFDC (besides my two bans of course). Unless I haven't followed all the threads (which is possible).

Mokhless hameh shoma Ali.

[Doctor DOOM]

I think ali tried to kiss some other member and for that he was banned.
( thank god for the law against kissing members )

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Azizan,

there is no point gettin soo emotional over football discussions. In the end of the day these are just discussions and no court verdicts.

relax, cool down, and stay objective. In the end of the day what we all care is our football - we are all on the same boat!