The BS called if you are not a pro!

[Mansoor]

Again, you missed the point. If you had brought up your 1,2,3,4 the way you did now, we never had this discussion today. At least not in this thread. This nice 1,2,3,4 that were correct were NOT your usual way to express your point of views. It was your EXTREME approach with lot of foul language and harsh words along with lot of "decorations" that is still the same way. And this last statement brings us back to to the topic of discussion here: It is not so much the complain that is troubling to some, it is the selection of words and how much to extreme some go in expressing their view and criticism against someone much more educated that triggers others to go "are you the coach"? It is the selection of words, it is the strong foul language and extreme approach that takes away so much from the quality and credit.

[Doctor DOOM]

I just spent a whole 5 minutes writting a reply, just to see it wiped off !!

and I frankly cant write all that again !

suffice to say it was about a change of tact on words and adjectives describing various persons of incompetence and intellectually challenged.

ong and short of it was :

===================
oh, I see .

so the problem was the "strong (??)foul" language. and not the message carried in the posts. ( put it down as heat of the moment , or a reaction to some highly controversial or infuriating piece of news, statement or act !)

very well.
so be it.
no more words like gutless, spineless, idiot, bum, .... as much as possible.

even when faced with most abrasive forms of hypocrisy, or most infuriating samples of denials or most ..... by certain well known persons.

well, with us approaching the WC and seeing such inaction, inefficiency, double standards and denials peppered all over TM and its surrounding issues, it IS hard to keep calm and not get angry.

and the closer we get to the games, the worse it'll get.

but we shall keep it under control as much as possible.

-----------------
however, it just amuses me that somehow other members ( who just ... "by accident?" ) are allowed to use the language on other members ( who just happen to be speaking against branko !! ) .... and yet no action taken on such matters !

and dont ask me who, coz I am not one to keep record of such things , nor do I like to name names.
u may either believe me or not.
really up to you.


----------------

but let me say this:
I wont initiate anything.
that, is very different if some other member starts something, which will meet with befitting ... "rebuttals".


==================================
==================================

in fact, just to show I mean it, I went back to the "life's a ..... for branko.." thread and changed ALL THE FOUL LANGUAGE and words from that original post.

no more foul words.

[Mansoor]

Oh, there is a god! This is a special day for me Peyman jaan.

But seriously, if you really think about it, it makes HUGE difference when reasonning with strong logic and less emotion. And I agree with you, we can't help it when emotion gets on the way sometimes as I regret myself for occasional emotional responses. I believe if there is enough logic in the discussion, it would do more than emotional words can.

[Martin-Reza]

Perspolees jan, I will comment on some of your comments, I try to keep it short, so it doesn't get out of hand and becomes neverending Dr. Doom-like postings

You do not have enough knowledge of law and you can't defend anyone in the court of law but you have the ability to see if an attorney is weak and not up to par and not capable of a good defense! or millions of other examples...first part does not conclude the latter part, simple as that..

The difference lies in detail here. You can of course, in certain cases, see weaknesses without much knowledge in that department. But in many cases you probably only believe to see weaknesses, while someone with more knowledge would see it totally different. Main issue is to stick to measurable output when you rate someone with more knowledge than yourself. But if you get into detail and propose how a good lawyer should plan a good defense and how he should argue it's simply ridiculous.

Imagine you have back problems and a specialist believes the root of the problem is an old ankle injury which makes you walk differently and causes back problems. Now he starts working on your ankle and a Dr. Doom like person comes and shouts at him what an idiot and moron he is because "you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that if you got back problems you must not try curing an ankle".

The difference from football to this doctor example is a doctor would explain everything to you, but Branko's not providing a service to the likes of Dr. Doom, so he doesn't (and also can't because of various reasons - eg. he can't openly say this player you like sucks so much and he's such a prick that he spoils the team atmosphere too when he's present, or also because we are not able to understand everything without the same knowledge and experience as him).

Since we communicate in written form it's not possible to get any issue through, but just think about the example you gave and try to realize what the difference to a coach is. Maybe in short, even with little knowledge you can see (or rather believe to see) some shortcomings, but you need a lot of knowledge to tell what in detail is going wrong and what solutions have to be implied - sth Dr. Doom regulary does. He doesn't keep it at a appropriate level saying "I don't like how the team plays" but says which player should play, which one not and that a guy who is much more knowledgeable than him is a moron. Sth that's embarassing for the author - who unbeliveably gets appolous for that too.

writers, commentators, spectators and just simple fans are the most valuable part of any sports and they bash what they do not like and support the ones tha they do.. and trust me that they are the main reason that a player gets recognition for the professors of football to use them! and how funny that the majority does see it te same way. The majority do see ouur problems with our tm...like it or not but those are facts...

The problem is a majority isn't always right. And that's also why I am so worried. We have many people with a football understanding like Dr. Doom, and it's really below the level of most European countries' fans' level. When an uneducated but very aggressive mob has big influence on our football, we will never get past the current status. We will change coaches like socks and the true problems of our football remain unadressed.

and last but not least:
Have you ever commented on a journalist, better than the other, or doctor being bettter than another one? how do you compare things that you have not gone to school for!!?

It's a difference if I comment on somebody or if I act as if I knew everything better than a pro. Also it is a difference if you comment on general issues (eg. taste or just humanitarian issues) one doesn't need to be educated for, or if you critisize specialists in their job as if you were a bigger specialist yourself.

who says that I cant compare say kameli to kazerani!!?
or enayati to daei!? just because I am not a coach?
just know that if anyone truly believes int hat he or she is a ludicris at best with literally no way to make any decision or comment about anything!

You can compare, but you must be aware that you cannot match somebody who is a specialist in comparing and choosing players. Just like a 6-year-old will not be able to rate players like you or me, we are not able to rate players like a pro coach on high level. Simply because we lack knowledge and also information (how fast is Kameli? How many chances needs Enayati to score in IPL? and much much more).

So if you go there and say "The guy with much more knowledge and information than me is a moron for not chosing the players I would with less knowledge and information", justifying it by sayings like "it's simply obvious..." it's not acceptable. Dr. Doom's a lost case. But I don't get how people can agree with such a person.

o I forgot there was this simple study mny years ago that egular fans and the coach were off only on 5-6 players on their call up!! how would you answer that?
Or just the fact that at least 10 -15 of our tm players would get the majority vote to get called up! So how is it that the regular fans are good in guessing those and how and where they would play but therest of teh stuff that they say is no good!?

I can only guess, but people are heavily influenced by the national team coach.

The important question is can we accept that now everyone claims the coach is a moron for not calling up the 5-6 players he would? I mean this is plainly idiotic, but it is accepted by many here!

[Doctor DOOM]

twsiting and turning is one way to create excuses for incompetence.

very telgraphically put:

- 5 years

- more or less the same players

- persistence of some long standing deficiencies and their repetition in game after game

- severe lacks in some major & vital areas, still unaddressed, some after years

- repeated attempts to shove in a square peg into a round hole

- constant reminders of double standards

- majority cannot be that wrong , as the trends indicate. even if they shd be excused for not living in europe, and being from little-old & sad Iran.

plz excuse us if we dont live in the land of "football supremacy", austria, whose clubs are feared by all god's creatures, and whose national team has redefined "supreme football power" by winning 17 WC titles back to back !
yes, some of us are not so privileged to live in such an environment of football superiority to know more about football !

- facts and common sense is a very good thing to have. and not everything can be explained by a twisted and bent-out-of-shape excuse .

[Mr.Good]

Actually the title of thread should be, "The BS is called if you think that you know better than a pro and call him a Moron".

btw, I think there is a PFDC rule against name calling of TM members.

2/ No labeling or inappropriate attributions toward any PFDC member or political/Non-Political figure,current or past members of Iran’s national football squad is allowed in your posts or signature.

[Martin-Reza]

twsiting and turning is one way to create excuses for incompetence.

very telgraphically put:

- 5 years

- more or less the same players

- persistence of some long standing deficiencies and their repetition in game after game

- severe lacks in some major & vital areas, still unaddressed, some after years

- repeated attempts to shove in a square peg into a round hole

- constant reminders of double standards

- majority cannot be that wrong , as the trends indicate. even if they shd be excused for not living in europe, and being from little-old & sad Iran.

plz excuse us if we dont live in the land of "football supremacy", austria, whose clubs are feared by all god's creatures, and whose national team has redefined "supreme football power" by winning 17 WC titles back to back !
yes, some of us are not so privileged to live in such an environment of football superiority to know more about football !

- facts and common sense is a very good thing to have. and not everything can be explained by a twisted and bent-out-of-shape excuse .

If he's incompetent what are you then? In Austria at least, just like in Germany and in any other European country, people like you are laughed at. People who know crap and act as if they were cleverer than a pro coach.

[perspolees]

good post , persi jan.

but I have a problem with your statement:

"....I want to see the professor use his knowledge and make a great keeper out of Daei......"

agha jan, laazem nakardeh.
first lets see if he can make a proper KEEPER when to exit for crosses ! daei keeper shodan bokhoreh too saremoon !

4 years have passed, and despite having not one, but TWO GK-ing coaches, mirza makes the same mistakes !!!!!

how pathetic is that as a tenure-record for a coach ?

and how pathetic the head coach shd be to still defend these two and persist with them ?


now to some friends this may seem like an incredible discovery fitting only for greatest football minds with 4 diff. degrees, and not simple fans !
to some others ( and thank god they are the absolute majority ) this is clear as day and no nuclear physics, to notice and comment on.

ddjan
obviously I was joking! I was trying to make a point that I do not need to be a coach to know that changing daei into keeper is not possible!
reverse of it is also correct. bottom line I was trying to say we as fans can and do make technical comments...and it is BS to say you cant because you are not the coach!

[perspolees]

Here is my perspective on this topic:
1. From what I have read and understood, Martin did not say not to talk, not to criticize, not to discuss issues, but rather select words more carefully. If this is correct, then I agree with him.
Arrogant and aggressive statements as if you know more than a professional only proves lack of education and understanding of the topic. Extremism has always been due to illiteracy and lack of education in any situation. Although, sometimes the culture also plays a role in it.
I suggest rather than decorating your statements and criticism with arrogance and strong foul language, try to discuss it with only emphasizing on the point you have or the criticism you see. Remarks of harsh harsh words only present your own self as not a creditable person, person of extremism which simply implies lack of understanding, education, and culture.
I am surprise Perspolis jaan(I wish I could have a first name), has constantly advocating that you should maintain respect for Ali Parvin who was Iran's national team captain for so long, when criticizing him, but rather forgets that when it comes to other members of TM, coach or player.
2. I do think that fans and amateurs can sometimes bring in different perspectives that professionals MAY simply miss due to being too tied up in principles of certain subject. Revolutionary ideas have often been triggered by those with no expertise on the subject. Football is no exception. I think the fans should continue to pour in ideas, suggestions, and criticism, but to be more careful and respectful when the criticism is presented. Not to go "ghorboon sadagheh" but to also avoid harsh foul language that only reduces their own value of existance.
3. I think all of us fans should have one simple statement in mind at all time to help us avoid extremism which again only expose our lack of education: The constant question of "is it HIM or ..... is it ME?" This simple question will always help you keep things in perspective regardless of how sure you are of what you think is true is actually true.
Take a look at history. Your own history, History of the fans objecting to something for so long or so aggressively and so on. I'll give some example that are very related to us and our discussion:
Remember the time before Busan games? Remember how sure everybody was of Iran's failure? Remember how this very media smashed IFF, Branko, and the Omid team? Remember how frustrating it was that actually led to lose of one of our great IFF boss every, Farahani? He gave up because he simply couldn't deal with extremism. He simply couldn't deal with people that constantly forget the very simple question "Is it HIM ... or .... is it ME"? At the end of the day, they were left with serious "khit bazi". What did they do? simple statements such as Branko did well, we were wrong and so. But no lessons learned for the future. Same strategy, same extremism, same aganeda type campaign. Nothing learned.
Remember how some of the very members with exact same extremism were convinced Karimi wasn't worth a dime? Remember how sure they were Karimi won't even make it to Europe, and again how sure they were he won't survive there? What happened to that extremism? Did we learn anything from it? NOT REALLY! Just fooling ourselves with simple logics as "well, you can't compare this Karimi to that Karimi" but forgetting that this was never the subject of discussion. It was a)He won't make it there (with extremism and lot of harsh words and no amendment about except this or that) b)He won't be taken (with extremism and lot of harsh words and no explaining about how in the world this currently worthless player and future great player which is no longer "that Karimi" would be bought in the first place by a top 5/10 club in the world?!!)
These are just EXAMPLES to help people learn from the history. Or at least for others to watch and learn how our history is repeating itself again and again.... and unfortunately that is a fact in it's own that you can't do anything about it ....

what are you tlking about!!?
who has insulted who!?
I just said that it is BS to say that one can't criticise technical staff because that person is not a coach! thats all.

You can criticize Parvin from here to moon and I respect that and you will never hear me using the excuse of since you are not a coach you cant critice him! that's flat out weak and to be honest goes to show the weak roots of whatever that one is defending!

I have been reading your posts and I think you are just jumping on this one! You can choose to be a blind supporter of who ever you wish to but do not tell me that I am insulting anyone with just saying that branko sucks in his coaching skills! thats my opinion and I do not need another fan telling me to shut up just because I am not a coach...simple as that ! FOR YOUR INFO AS MUCH AS i DESPISE bRANKO i AM ALSO AGAINST LETTING HIM GO NOW AT THIS STAGE. iT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN A TIMELY FASHION AND WE HAVE MISSED THE BOAT.

I think it is the naivest of discussions and explanations and goes to the root of the gray matter tht supports it when someone pulls that crap out! that since you are not a doctor you can't have an understanding of who is a good or a bad physician! or a coach or a whatever! we do not need technical degrees to have ideas about someones technical aspects of function!

[perspolees]

Perspolees jan, I will comment on some of your comments, I try to keep it short, so it doesn't get out of hand and becomes neverending Dr. Doom-like postings
The difference lies in detail here. You can of course, in certain cases, see weaknesses without much knowledge in that department. But in many cases you probably only believe to see weaknesses, while someone with more knowledge would see it totally different. Main issue is to stick to measurable output when you rate someone with more knowledge than yourself. But if you get into detail and propose how a good lawyer should plan a good defense and how he should argue it's simply ridiculous.
Imagine you have back problems and a specialist believes the root of the problem is an old ankle injury which makes you walk differently and causes back problems. Now he starts working on your ankle and a Dr. Doom like person comes and shouts at him what an idiot and moron he is because "you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that if you got back problems you must not try curing an ankle".
The difference from football to this doctor example is a doctor would explain everything to you, but Branko's not providing a service to the likes of Dr. Doom, so he doesn't (and also can't because of various reasons - eg. he can't openly say this player you like sucks so much and he's such a prick that he spoils the team atmosphere too when he's present, or also because we are not able to understand everything without the same knowledge and experience as him).
Since we communicate in written form it's not possible to get any issue through, but just think about the example you gave and try to realize what the difference to a coach is. Maybe in short, even with little knowledge you can see (or rather believe to see) some shortcomings, but you need a lot of knowledge to tell what in detail is going wrong and what solutions have to be implied - sth Dr. Doom regulary does. He doesn't keep it at a appropriate level saying "I don't like how the team plays" but says which player should play, which one not and that a guy who is much more knowledgeable than him is a moron. Sth that's embarassing for the author - who unbeliveably gets appolous for that too.
The problem is a majority isn't always right. And that's also why I am so worried. We have many people with a football understanding like Dr. Doom, and it's really below the level of most European countries' fans' level. When an uneducated but very aggressive mob has big influence on our football, we will never get past the current status. We will change coaches like socks and the true problems of our football remain unadressed.
It's a difference if I comment on somebody or if I act as if I knew everything better than a pro. Also it is a difference if you comment on general issues (eg. taste or just humanitarian issues) one doesn't need to be educated for, or if you critisize specialists in their job as if you were a bigger specialist yourself.
You can compare, but you must be aware that you cannot match somebody who is a specialist in comparing and choosing players. Just like a 6-year-old will not be able to rate players like you or me, we are not able to rate players like a pro coach on high level. Simply because we lack knowledge and also information (how fast is Kameli? How many chances needs Enayati to score in IPL? and much much more).
So if you go there and say "The guy with much more knowledge and information than me is a moron for not chosing the players I would with less knowledge and information", justifying it by sayings like "it's simply obvious..." it's not acceptable. Dr. Doom's a lost case. But I don't get how people can agree with such a person.
I can only guess, but people are heavily influenced by the national team coach.
The important question is can we accept that now everyone claims the coach is a moron for not calling up the 5-6 players he would? I mean this is plainly idiotic, but it is accepted by many here!

Martinjan I beg to differ!
I am going to keep it short.
My friend you can argue with an attorney as to the facts that he is arguing are weak and the law that he is referring to is non existant if you do a little research. you do not have to have the degree!

Every day in our lives we do that. We comment on a driver's driving and compare what he is doing to ourselves or what our perception of the right is .
We comment on a philosopher's beliefs that wow accidentalism is BS!! etc.

That doctor you gave an example of that pipoints the rootcause may misdiagnose you. It happens every day of our lives that lay people criticize and sue doctors, engineers, lawyers etc! based on THEIR understanding of what was done wrong or right. and they win!

All that I am saying is it is truely a weak defense and it is naive to say for instance DD is wrong because he is not a coach! I have had my shares of agreements with you and him as well as our differences, but to just say that you cant claim what you are just because you are not a technical director it is imho weak!

You and I for the most part agree with the technical staff that for instance Karimi should be called up! I think I can do that even if I am not a caoch and blast him if he did not call him up even if he says he has his plans!! he cant tell me as he never does that since I am not a coach I cant talk! he says he digs it that way and thats his rite!

simply put you want to argue your points and at least you I know that has the knowledge to do so based on your knowledge and merits not by blanket bashing a comment based on the fact that someone is not a coach!
It is unheard of! EVen Branko himself never says hey you since you are not a coach do not bring up these technical reasonings and where is your degree!!

He can as he says that he is hired to run teh show according to what he thinks is rite and thats his rite, among his rights are not bashing people because of their beliefs or putting down suggestions that they are incapable of rendering an opinion just because they are not a coach.

[Martin-Reza]

Martinjan I beg to differ!
I am going to keep it short.
My friend you can argue with an attorney as to the facts that he is arguing are weak and the law that he is referring to is non existant if you do a little research. you do not have to have the degree!

If you can argue that way with an attorney after a little research he is a joke of an attorney. But Branko has bosses. People who were in football for a long time. People who, after he had worked for a while in Iran already, three times gave him a new contract. It's not that there is noone competent to judge him. Regardless of Dadkan & Co's class, they are yet cleverer than Dr. Doom and if Branko was on the level of the described attorney, those people wouldn't pay him lots of money.

Why on earth is it justified for a fan to badmouth a coach, but not for a fan to critisize another fan, both for his knowledge as well as for his whole behaviour? This is what I am doing. And by the way using the same terminology he uses writing about the coach.

Every day in our lives we do that. We comment on a driver's driving and compare what he is doing to ourselves or what our perception of the right is .
We comment on a philosopher's beliefs that wow accidentalism is BS!! etc.

That is true, but people who exaggerate it are hypocrites. And you must differ between issues. We all can drive so we can easily and rightfully critisize other drivers, or we can judge from the output (accident=bad driving) without knowing much about driving. But if I never sat in a car I can't say Schumacher is a moron for this and that. The guy is knowing what he does very well, much better than me, so if he doesn't get the results I can say he must do sth wrong, but when I start annoying talk about how he should have changed the setup of his car it is ridiculous. Do you see the difference?

That doctor you gave an example of that pipoints the rootcause may misdiagnose you. It happens every day of our lives that lay people criticize and sue doctors, engineers, lawyers etc! based on THEIR understanding of what was done wrong or right. and they win!

Of course, but you judge solely by the output in that example, which is rational. You say you tried to cure me and it still hurts, so you failed. You don't say used a wrong technique or stuff like that, but you need another expert to analyse the mistakes for you. Similarily in football. Stick to critisizm of the output and when it comes to problem solving, leave it to the experts or at least don't be a prick in presenting your amateurish ideas. The tone makes the difference. If you're a nobody, don't call Professor Ivankovic who has a very impressive track record as TM coach a moron.

All that I am saying is it is truely a weak defense and it is naive to say for instance DD is wrong because he is not a coach! I have had my shares of agreements with you and him as well as our differences, but to just say that you cant claim what you are just because you are not a technical director it is imho weak!

You don't seem to understand. DD is not a coach, so when he disagrees with a coach (or rather with a whole coaching Staff) on coaching matters he is most likely wrong. Now the problem is not that we all sometimes disagree with a coach, but when somebody constantly acts as if the coach was a complete moron it's simply annoying to people.

You and I for the most part agree with the technical staff that for instance Karimi should be called up! I think I can do that even if I am not a caoch and blast him if he did not call him up even if he says he has his plans!! he cant tell me as he never does that since I am not a coach I cant talk! he says he digs it that way and thats his rite!

But if a successful coach decides not to call him up, he surely has his reasons. I mean the assumption that he has suddenly gone nuts and doesn't see Karimi is good or doesn't want to have success is plainly ridiculous. Yet this ridiculous assumption in much less strange cases (Mobali really is not Karimi) is the basis of almost all of Dr. Doom's critisizm.

simply put you want to argue your points and at least you I know that has the knowledge to do so based on your knowledge and merits not by blanket bashing a comment based on the fact that someone is not a coach!
It is unheard of! EVen Branko himself never says hey you since you are not a coach do not bring up these technical reasonings and where is your degree!!

Again, I also argue the points, but each single point is not important. Important is an attitude that is starting to take over people. As soon as there is a difference in a pro coach's decision and a fan's thought the coach is attacked and labelled an idiot. Noone is eager to learn, to try to understand or at least not insult a person much more competent.

We MUST NOT let this attitude overcome rationality.

He can as he says that he is hired to run teh show according to what he thinks is rite and thats his rite, among his rights are not bashing people because of their beliefs or putting down suggestions that they are incapable of rendering an opinion just because they are not a coach.

But it is his right to insult and put down a person valued by others as well as being more intelligent (in football aspects) then him?

Again, I think you missed my complete point. You seem to believe I am against people critisizing a coach. If that is the case, please, if you are interested , read what I write again.

It's an attitude that is inappropriate and lowers the quality of the discussions. It is how you say it, and the how is heavily influenced by the attitude. Critisize, but remember who you are and who the one is you critisize.

[Doctor DOOM]

I dont know who closed the other thread , but since someone's level of comprehension is so beyond repair or help, this is the "answer" they are tearing themselves for.

the same answer that was given many times.
but since they didnt "LIKE" the answer , they behave like a childish brat who wants HIS kind of junk food ( his choice ) rather than the vegetables put in front of him !!

here's the answer, for the nth time:
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...4&postcount=30

and I am not going to repeat these answers again and again, just becoz of ur lack of comprehension and fortitude in grey cells, ..... tough !
live with it !

[Martin-Reza]

I dont know who closed the other thread , but since someone's level of comprehension is so beyond repair or help, this is the "answer" they are tearing themselves for.

the same answer that was given many times.
but since they didnt "LIKE" the answer , they behave like a childish brat who wants HIS kind of junk food ( his choice ) rather than the vegetables put in front of him !!

here's the answer, for the nth time:
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...4&postcount=30

and I am not going to repeat these answers again and again, just becoz of ur lack of comprehension and fortitude in grey cells, ..... tough !
live with it !

You did not answer, you simply answered a question that was never asked. The question was "who is more knowledgable, Branko or you". The question was not "did you claim to be a coach".

It's ok, you revealed your character. No wonder the "coward"-issue is so important to you...

[Hajagha]

On this board time and again I see this nonesense called that if you are not a pro do not comment!! or do not criticize!
For those weak anologies do I need to point out that the best and greatest of directors and coaches are sacked all around the world just because the press or fans push them out!!?
Believe it or not although Rehagel won the europe but you wont see many people cheering for him! This game is on because it brings people to stadiums and people watch it on their screens. I can't but think that an ugly defensive and game destroying minded coach can maybe win a tourney but not the heart of the millions of fans and soon finds his way booted from here to timbaktooo! and you bet us regular people do that!! you look at the evolution of point systems and attack football tht changed the face of the planet football in less than 20 years! It was not because 5 professional Gods of football sat down and said lets change tehb point system to 3. They wee smart yet regular people that were thinking of making the game pretty...and guess for who!! for us regular people to see and cpomment on players coaches, etc!

Regular people every day have their minds at simple things as this doctor is good and the other one is bad, they do not need to have gone to medical school for that honor of commenting!!

Every day Juries sit on the bench to decide for another fellows life or death yet they have no clue about the law!! and legal proceedings

regular people vote and elect presidents and the way their countries should run yet they do not have the slightest clue as to what politics is!

So please stop this nonesense of if you are not a pro, shut up and just follow!

the world would not have been the place that it is now if human race stopped from advacing, criticizing and embarking on new challenges. regular people taking larger than life steps to embark on a dream or an idea that many times was not even what they knew well! let alone a simple fan saying Branko you suck!
baba aghlham onsore sharifiye!!

Good post, plus Soccer ain't rocket science. baba, they give a knife to some one's hand to do surgery after a few years watching. Look at us, we watched this game for a life.

Now let me read the rest.

[Hajagha]

Well, I gave up. Can you guys write shorter? I don't think you have zelion poinits to make it in zelions lines.

What you do is only losing another reader by repeating yourself.

I don't mean any one particularly here as I didn't read them.

Have a good life.

cheers