Iran vs. UAE Game [merged]

[Doctor DOOM]

My good God!

2 days I'm not here and there are tomes presented as posts !

ok. If Iran beat uae, I'll read each & every word and reply.



=========

and I dont know if I shd laugh along with Iraj, or actually go hide under the bed!

that may seem a very funny post, but the scary thing is that's not very far from the truth !!

[maij]

Actually, I don't see the funny part in ridiculing Team Melli to such a degree hours before a crucial match. I would have expected a bit more sanity, understanding and faith from senior members..... If this is the example we set, then what chances we have with those delinquent juveniles littering the other forum with their immature posts!!!

I don’t know why some of you guys who are intelligent enough, ridicule Team Melli , not criticize but ridicule , mock and think it is cool and civilized thing to do !! It is not civilized nor elegant to do so. Maybe those guys playing football and coaching do not have as high IQ as you have , but they substitute it by trying physically to make you proud…Excuse their shortfalls , but they are trying … and trying their best.

Guys ….How about some appreciation for the boyz , for a change????

[leviathan]

and I dont know if I shd laugh along with Iraj, or actually go hide under the bed!

that may seem a very funny post, but the scary thing is that's not very far from the truth !!

I wasn't trying to be funny or mock any body at all....what i described is how i feel....

I am very frustrated and have no hope of any changes or getting through this round....

we see(me and millions of other fans) a lot of probelms as well as intervention in our football which has moved our team backwards as they are not even able to perform close to how they have been performing in the last 40 years that we have been supporting them....and knowing that the players are doing their best does not relieve our frustration.(P.S. our players are the least responsible for our failures)

[yashar_fasihnia]

amin, its 6 am here, so im gonna just make a quick reply cos i think i have stated my arguments and u have stated urs, anything more will just be repetition:

1)if this system is not working for TM in past 3 games, it doesnt mean its the formation thats not working. i said it many times and many people also agree, this new TM with the young squad and new coaching staff has been formed just 3 weeks back and have played only 3-4 games together. u cant expect them to have good performance and results. i think the problem is more in the limited coordination and understanding the players and the coaches have between each other and themselves. and this can be solved with time.
in other words, in my opinion, if we change the formation, it will only make matters worse cos again the players have to start getting used to their new positions and their team mates new positions and duties, etc. besides, i dont think formation changing will make muhc of a difference because our team needs time. time is our single most important problem at the moment and formation is nowhere even close to being a major problem in my opinion.

i also mentioned an example for this about the porsche, the corolla and the peykan. just because the porsche withouth the brakes doesnt help u win the game doesnt mean its not the best alternative. sometimes, even the best alternative isnt good enough. so by changing, u only make matters worse.

another example: enayati hasnt been scoring for TM lately. so wat, we should change him? and bring in khalili? he hasnt been scoring either. so wat chang again and bring in someone like borhani? that will make only matters worse! enayati and khalili might not be the perfect strikers but u and me both know they arent the problems TM is not scoring! if they are not getting any passes and opportunities, then their limitations as strikers isnt the main problem. the main problem is the team is not creating opportunities for him. we cant keep changing our forward in such a case cos that will not solve the problem! and no, we wont be called LAJBAZ(or atleast, we shouldnt be called) if we continue playing enayati there because, simply, HE ISNT THE MAIN PROBLEM! similar with the team, the formation isnt the main problem! the main problem is our team hasnt had enough time to gel up and become a team and get coordinated with each other, understand each other, etc! so changing the formation wont help in geling up the team and getting them more coordinated! SO, YES, CHECKING THE ALTERNATIVES AND UNDERSTANDING WAT THE MAJOR PROBLEM IS, IS INDEED IMPORTANT!

2) the formation u suggested does make our midfield less compact and we are left with 1 DM who is not on top form which means more pressure on him for destruction of the the opponents attacks. it does make our defense more vulnerable because, not only we have less midfielders now (so the opponent can penetrate our midfield more) but also, only 1 DM which means less destruction and interception.
add to this, the fact that both madanchi and kazemian are really poor in defensive purposes. they are offensively very good but defensively very poor. thats why u wont see any coach using any of these 2 players as a RB or a LB in a defense line. kaabi and kia were used for RB but not kazemian. similarly zare, nosrati, even nikbakht were used as LB but never madanchi!

so ur formation is very vulnerable defensively, atleast thas how i see it. we can make it a bit more defensively by adding someone like ebrahim sadeghi as a 5th midfielder and remove a striker. sadeghi is more a Central midfielder rather than a DM or an AM. so he can help us more in maintaing ball possession and stopping the opponents attacks with this endless running and pressing.

also remember that, the more the midfielders, the easier the transition of defense to offense and vice versa which u thought was a problem in TM because any transition in a team involves the midfield and goes through the midfielders. so reducing the number of midfielders by 1 will only worsen this situation.

3)the reason i made that point about ghalenoi i made is that, many times, many coaches all around have no choice but to play players out of position simply because there arent any good players for that specific position. branko chose nosrati and zare, ghalenoi chose zandi, daei chose beyghzadeh.
its all a matter of choice because we dont have a decent LB in iran and thats not the headcoachs fault! its the clubs faults who cant produce decent players in LB position. so its not branko's fault that iran doesnt have a good LB! in 5 years time, if no decent LB exists in any club in iran, wat can he do?he has no choice but to play some player out of position but who plays close to that position or who cna partially fulfill the duties of that position. its just a matter of choice then who to choose and play out of position - nosrati, zare, beygzadeh or zandi or whoever? we had a similar problem with RB! branko introduced a 16 year old kaabi who was a RM as RB and after few years, he has become a really good one! he did the same with the LB but unfortunately, our options available for LB didnt have the potential kaabi had to become a relatively good LB! so, point is, sometimes, coaches have to play players out of position because they are the best options available to them.
jaap stam was forced to play RB in milan a few years back! salihamidzic and schweinsteiger have both been forced to play fullbacks when bayern didnt have any better alternatives for fullback position. these things happen!

4)when u say something which is ur opinion, make sure u say its ur opinion otherwise readers, or atleast i wont understand. when u say something like
"DAEI IS BEING LAJBAZ, 4-2-3-1 HAS PROVEN TO BE A FAILURE IN TM ALL THSI WHILE!" it doesnt look like a simple opinion to me. it sounds to me either an expert has conducted some kind of analysis and research and is making such a claim or there is a mathematical formula which can prove it has been a failure. for someone who admits he is not an expert and admits its his opinion, its very wrong to accuse a coach of being lajbaz just to accomodate a player he likes or for any other reason just after 3 games and 2 weeks of coaching! cut the guy some slack and give him some time before starting to accuse him of something which is not even provable but is only an opinion!

5)no, if 18 TM players play 2-7-1, that doesnt mean daei SHOULD play 2-7-1 for them. but it does mean that the players are more familiar and find this formation easier to adapt to rather than a new formation, IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOPD. so, 4-2-3-1 only has AN ADVANTAGE over other formations at this point of time. its upto the coach to use this advantage or not and sacrifice this advantage for another formation which according to him brings more advantages. So, this is the opinion and view of the coach and u must accept it and care for it because if u dont care about it, it means u wont be able to accept his view point!

6)If u had read my post a bit more carefully, u would realize that that half a page of post about different formations was not simply to waste my time and urs. i was trying to explain to u the probable reason which daei chose 4-2-3-1. daei had chosen aerial balls from set pieces, crosses from the 2 sides and direct long balls from the defense and midfield has the main strategy to score and to do this, he must have felt that 4-2-3-1 is the best formation because of the good width the team can have when playing 4-2-3-1 both at the back with the fullbacks and infront with the 2 midfielders on the 2 sides. this is wat i think was going on in daeis and his staff mind and for sure, the formation u posted, 4-4-2 diamond is not as good as the 4-2-3-1 formation for aerial and wing plays.


still long i know, tried to keep it short by not addressing the other issues which i thought werent main issues unless i forgot to address them.. but i guess thats all the points i can remember after reading ur post and my post. anywayz, i hope watever the coaches decide and do, works out for TM and we get the desired results.

[Doctor DOOM]

only one thing on the supposed question of success or failure of the formation.

as with everything else in life, there are PRIMARY tools to get something, and then, there are SECONDARY or ACCESSORY ones that usually "help" to bolster the primary roles ... but stay what they are: secondary.
for everything.
there is nothing you could find that has a secondary that overshadows the primary's impact ( otherwise, they'd be called primary ).
be it a part of your body or a part of machine or a concept in finance or religion or law or society or ... whatever.

I hope, at least this much, our friends can agree on.


in football, the PRIMARY task of scoring goals in bestowed upon who?
the forwards.

does that mean only forwards score?
no. other players, who are SECONDARY, do take part in it also. but these players ( parts ) have their OWN PRIMARY TASKS , depending on them being a defender ( defense - primary task ) , or a midfielder ( connecting the lines, transitions, creating , spreading ...... - primary task ).

now, any machine or body or ... whose primary elements are failing in the job and has to rely on the secondary elements to bear the burden, they take this body to a HOSPITAL , or the machine to a REPAIR shop , or ... etc.
why?
becoz the ppl in charge have naturally RECOGNIZED THE FAILURE OF THIS SYSTEM, MACHINE, BODY, SOCIETY, ... and are attempting an overhaul or repair or rehabilitate the said machine, body, ... .

and that's why this crummy 4-2-3-1 has FAILED .... read it again : F.A.I.L.E.D. in Iran.


( plz dont come up with "team game or everybody's a part of the team and .... )
-----------------

if you cant walk becoz the nerves or muscles to and in your feet dont do their jobs, and you have to use your hands to move about, it is not the fault of your feet .
and it is NOT natural to walk on ur hands either.

you take that person to a doctor who recognizes the problem and does his mojo to enable you to WALK ON YOUR FEET AGAIN.
the doctor who says "Oh no. walking on ur hands are quite natural" is a f**king moron and has cow dung in his skull and knows jack about reality, let alone his field.


===============


I hope I made this as simple as possible so everyone could relate to and get my point. coz I guess, I usually fail to express my points properly.

coz now I put this question to you all:
ever since we had the miserable misfortune of being forced to adopt this formation by that cursed moron, years ago, HOW MANY GOALS HAVE BEEN SCORED BY OUR FORWARDS ?

I dont deny we have been having a parallel problem of finding great goal scorers in Iran.
but if you think about it, that's only HALF the problem.
coz we see the players who dont score at TM, score freely in their clubs and elsewhere.
so it's not as if the guy cant tap the ball or head the ball or shoot or place himself correctly or .... to score. he KNOWS how to score.
( the FEET know how to walk. they just dont get supplied the nerve impulses to do so )

players like khalili ( 2 seasons of very high # of goals ) , enayati ( many seasons of very high # of goals ), even rajabzadeh( 2 seasons of very good # of goals ), samereh ( 2 seasons of very high # of goals ), ... have been tried lately.
before that we had daei , whose goal scoring needs no introduction and we had a FIT and READY VH who used to score in a much more tougher football, and ... .

in the past 5 years, what STANDS out the most in TM?
isnt it the lack of goals scored off the forwards?

( in between we used to get half starving and amateur teams to trounce like C team from jamaica, or lybia or ... in insignificant friendlies, which if we respect ourselves, we shdnt even count as any evidence )

[yashar_fasihnia]

the "PRIMARY FUNCTION" of a team is to win not to just try and score at any cost because u might score 2 or 3 but concede 4 like some morons from turkey who when criticized about their teams poor performance and results, kept coming up with the excuse, "my team has the best offense line in the league and has scored the most goals"!

wat did that high number of goals scored get him and his team and the fans? A BEAUTIFUL 10th PLACE In THE LEAGUE!
Sorry this idiot who thinks he is too gutsy by playing offensive football without considering the defense part of football lost 5 tournaments in a span of 2 years with 2 of irans best teams!

THIS IN MY OPINION IS A FAILURE!

SCORING LESS GOALS BUT WINNING GAMES IS NOT FAILURE, SCORING 2-3 GOALS BUT CONCEDING 4 FROM EVERY TOM DICK AND HARRY INCLUDING A 9 MAN SEPAHAN IN AZADI INFRONT OF 100,000 UR OWN FANS IS READ AS FAILURE!!

The aim in football is to win, not to just score a lot of goals at any cost while forgetting about everything else! Hence, the decision by FIFA to award 3 points to a team who wins 1-0 every game, rather than the team who scores 3 goals but concededs 4 goals at the same time every game!

If u need to get to a destination, then thats ur primary goal, not TO WALK AT ANY COST AND REACH UR DESTINATION! If ur legs can walk but for some reason are not strong enough to carry u all the way to ur final destination (maybe ur knee joints are weak?), then ur better off walking on ur strong arms and hands but atleast make sure u reach ur destination even if it means ur walking doesnt look so elegant or isnt as fast as it is on ur feet! THE GOAL IS TO REACH UR DESTINATION, NOT TO DO SOMETHING ELEGANTLY BUT FAIL TO REACH UR DESITNATION!
Hence,
PRIMARY GOAL - REACH UR DESTINATION! DOESNT MATTER IF U WALK, CRAWL, HOP, FLY OR SWIM! WHICH EVER WAY U THINK IS THE BEST IN HELPING U GET UR DESTINATION, AND NOT WHICH EVER WAY U THINK LOOKS MORE ELEGANT!

The "conservative spineless failed" 4-2-3-1 system has yielded better results than the "gutsy offensive 4-4-2" of that idiot from turkey who left iran empty handed! Now, thats something that can be proved and it has been proven, atleast to most people. The first 60 minutes against mexico in the worldcup says it all. if only our players had more stamina and were more fit!

4-2-3-1 HAS WORKED IN IRAN, WITH IRANIAN COACHES AND FOREIGN COACHES IN IRAN, HAS WORKED WITH IRANIAN PLAYERS AND NON-IRANIAN PLAYERS IN IRAN, AGAINST EAST ASIAN AND WEST ASIAN TEAMS OUTSIDE IRAN WITH ALL DIFFERENT KIND OF STRATEGIES AND FORMATIONS!
HENCE, 4-2-3-1 HAS NOT BEEN A FAILURE FOR IRANIAN FOOTBALL!

[BehzadB]

Adel Ferdousipour asked Clemente on Navad: "what formation will you use (or prefer)"... Clemente responded: "..first tell me who has the ball.."..

that's what football is all about guys, not formations...

Transitional football is where we need to improve on.. going from defense to offense, and vise versa

I can't help remembering ghotbi's famous phrase, "sazemandehee teamee"..

he used that phrase a lot early on.. that's the area we are lacking big time.. and that starts with our defenders.. once we have the right defenders in there, we can get the offense going..

how much offense did any one of our defenders orchestrate today?
How many times did Zareh, Aghili, jalali or Kaabi jump start or initiated an attack?
How does playing with 2 forwards, make our midfield or defenders play better??
How does playing with 1 less midfielder , make our offense better?

by the way, today, Daie made slight changes to his formation, and if you wonder why UAE team had full control of the midfield for such long periods of time, you may want to count your forwards..

[Doctor DOOM]

dear yashar, when you can stay within the topic and not travel through dimensions and other realities, we can further discuss how and whether this formation has worked or not. once again, bringing irrelevant examples that you CAN NOT fathom to be even slightly related to the topic will get you nowhere.
I'm half tempted to quote a gazillion examples ( all irrelevant , btw ) of how 4-4-2 has paid dividend . but I dont have much time, nor do I have that much "imagination to conjure up fantasies and UNREAL circumstances".



I sincerely wish we were talking about some crappy team or club that I didnt care for, so I'd say one deserves what one gets.
but TM is my team and club and ... .
so I wouldnt want to wish anything bad.

I'm sure after today's game you will ( and most probably are ) saying the formation worked and the formation has got the job done !!!

when you have ur eyes closed shut THIS forcefully, nothing can be done.

[yashar_fasihnia]

aghaye doctor,

my examples and post has 100% relevance to the topic and maybe ur shutting ur eyes to this or im not able to get my point through. i think in the current situation TM is in and with all the circumstances surrounding TM at the moment, 4-2-3-1 seems a good pick for the team. Now if u cant accept it, it doesnt mean im keeping my eyes shut. it just means i see football differently from u as so many other people! its comments like these that makes me say some people think they are football experts when they are not!

ur a fan of denizli and offensive football in general thats no secret. so ur arguments will be around the perspective of football u have which is pro-offensive. so i gave u some failed examples of denizli whose ideologies and perspective of football u support to show u that ur perspective can be wrong as well.

u were saying the 4-2-3-1 failed and we havent scored enough goals.
so i gave u an example where a team or a coach was very offensive, scored many goals but didnt get any results and ended up 10th in the league!
again i would like to remind u of the sepahan perspolis hazfi game. perspolis was playing in azadi with 100,000 fan support. they had ended up 10th in the league and their only chance of saving their blushes was in hazfi. the game ended 1-1 in normal time. sepahan was reduced to 9 men. with all these factors, pespolis went all offensive something u admire about ur hero, but wat happened, conceded 3 goals! this was a time when perspolis needed to score, it was a do or die match for perspolis and for denizli, but wat happened by playing too offense and forgetting about defense? WE ALL SAW WAT HAPPENED!

so in effect, it means that just because u play offensive and score goals without paying much attention to defense doesnt mean u get good results. if it was just scoring goals and forgetting about defense, why not play with 4 or 5 strikers? afterall, ur in a do or die situation and need to score goals!

furthermore, the 4-2-3-1 formation was played very well by TM in the worldcup against mexico until we ran out of gas and our whole team crumbled. we beat bosnia 5-2 and tied croatia 2-2 away as well, but i admit, i dont remember wat formation we played then. logic says it was 4-2-3-1 because those friendlies were just before the worldcup but since im not sure, i wont claim it unless someone can back me up on this.

so 4-2-3-1 hasnt failed at all! it has delivered good results and/or good performance just like any other formation. the 4-4-2 has also delivered food results/and or performance BUT AT THE SAME TIME, FAILED MISERABLY IN OTHER SITUATIONS! this is wat i think u dont wanna accept. all formations have worked in some matches and failed in some others. afterall, in football 2 teams play, and ur team and ur coach doesnt always win and beat the other coach. opponents arent just punching bags, whether our team wins or loses, no matter any team wins or loses, they always get a run for their money by their opponent! every team in any corner of the world has got mixed results with any formation, with any coach, against any team!

maybe its time u open ur eyes and realize winning in football isnt only about scoring goals and fielding more strikers. its about who can score more than they concede! so, again, i did rather have a 1-0 win than lose a game 4-3 but then boast i played offensive football and scored a lot of goals!

P.S. our team played poor, but was that because we played 4-2-3-1?? had we played with 2 strikers, we would be dominating UAE and scoring heaps of goals and winning in style?
THIS MY FRIEND, IS WAT I CALL IRRELEVANCE! BLAMING EVERYTING ON THE FORMATION WHEN CLEARLY FACTORS LIKE HUMIDITY AND TEMPERATURE, LACK OF COORDINATION AND UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE PLAYERS AND LACK OF EXPERIENCE BY MOST OF THEM PLAYERS WERE CLEARLY THE INFLUENTIAL FACTORS IN YESTERDAYS GAME!

[yashar_fasihnia]

thanx to kaveh, for those interested

Neko: We should have beaten UAE with 5 goals!

جواد نكونام:
بايد با پنج گل امارات را مي*برديم
با پيروزي بر سوريه صعود را جشن مي*گيريم

كاپيتان تيم ملي فوتبال ايران گفت: بايد با پنج گل مقابل امارات به پيروزي مي*رسيديم.
جواد نكونام پس از پيروزي تيم ملي فوتبال ايران مقابل امارات در گفت*وگو با خبرنگار ورزشي خبرگزاري دانشجويان ايران (ايسنا)، اظهار كرد: خيلي خوب بازي كرديم و حتي مي*توانستيم با اختلاف پنج گل امارات را شكست دهيم. شرايط ما بسيار ايده*آل بود و معتقدم تيم حريف هيچ برنامه*اي براي بازي با ما نداشت.
وي افزود: اماراتي*ها سعي مي*كردند روي توپ*هاي بلند تمركز داشته باشند كه خوشبختانه اين نقطه*ي قوت ما بود. ما توانستيم با كنترل بازي در طول 90 دقيقه پيروزي را از آن خود كنيم.
نكونام در پايان گفت: اميدوارم با پيروزي بر تيم سوريه بتوانيم صعود به مرحله*ي بعدي را جشن بگيريم

[Doctor DOOM]

Yashar jan, without going through a protracted argument and back-n-forthing of notes, I'll make it simple and snappy:

1- talking about another set of players and another coach has NO relevance at all. whether I like the coach or hate him. I dont know how difficult is that for you to see.
it would be highly irrelevant for me to tout Roma's success as much as Barca's failure, to what we are talking about : HOW IRAN'S NATIONAL TEAM HAS PERFORMED.
one can forever tout coaches who have had success with 4-2-3-1 in europe or africa or ..., while the other touts the success of 4-4-2 ( which btw, will outnumber 4-2-31's success by a power 20 or more as it's older and there are more examples to tout. so for each one of your cases, I'll have 20 in favor of 4-4-2. do you still want to look that bad ? I didnt think so )
But it just doesnt make sense.
the TOPIC is different.

and I feel you have not understood the issue here. the issues is NOT that system X is good and system Y is not. each one will have its success stories as well as failures.
the issues is how has IRANIAN NATIONAL TEAM fared with a given system. that's it and that's all you have to work with.


we also dont know how denizli would have fared at TM given TM's kind of players and not paas's or pp's. again, it make NO SENSE.
unless you put him in charge of TM for a year and observe his performance, it would be irrelevant and nonsensical to quote his name when we are talking about TM's system.

you want to defend the system of 4-2-3-1? go ahead. knock yourself out. I'm sure there are plenty of european teams and players you can bring in as evidence.
but when it comes to it being applied at TM? you have no case.

===================
btw, quoting players or coaches with "we shd have won by 5 or 6" is no supportive evidence.
coaches and players will obviously boast about how they were unlucky to do better and .... and so on !
again, unsubstantive and irrelevant.

we all saw the game and if you change the jerseys you'd be bemoaning the countless chances you got and lost and that it was YOU who deserved the win.
and mind you, uae had FAR MORE chances ( quantitatively ) and more dangerous chances as well ( qualitatively ).
they suffer from lack of a reliable striker. if they had just ONE good scorer, we'd have lost both games !

======================

now, it is up to each one to either accept the reality or deny it.

for me, the reality is what I see at TM.

- according to MY reality, OUR TM is and has been finding it very hard to score.
the score-lines of the past 4-5 years prove it.

- according to MY reality, at OUR TM no matter which unfortunate player we put as the lone striker, he fails.
and we have tried almost every tom, dick and harry there. all to the same result.

- according to MY reality, at OUR TM, the center of gravity of the team too deep into its line up with 7 defensive players that stifles our attacking nature or creative moves. which is becoz of the two def mids.
( now, if we're playing a huge european or south american team that clearly is above and beyond our category, by all means play this defensive hotch-potch , trying to avoid getting ripped to shreds ( fat load of good that did for us against mexico or portugal !! )


and I repeat, for better understanding, all the above points do not point at 4-2-3-1 formation being a bad formation. na agha jan. it's the best. in fact, I'll say it's humanity's greatest achievement in any area after discovery of freaking fire.
BUT IT'S NOT WORKING FOR US, .... meaning the IRANIAN NATIONAL TEAM.

you can quote coach X or Y, or team X or Y, or player X or Y till next thursday, and nothing will change.

ALL that, unless you are truly happy with what has been happening at TM.
meaning, strikers failures to score. and how our players look uncomfortable with the duties and fail to realize them properly , therefore the satisfaction with half-arse pretense we see at TM. and if all you want and expect from TM is not to concede against B and C grade asian teams ( coz clearly A grade asian ones can still tear us apart. and lets not even talk about europeans ).
if this is the ceiling , then you've got your wish, my friend.

vassalam, nameh tamam.

[yashar_fasihnia]

oh well, this is my last post too. in brief,

1)i gave examples of both european and iranian teams to show it works with all kind of players and coaches against all kinds of strong and weak opponents. i gave examples of perspolis and sepahan in IPL and ACL as well. im giving a general picture, stop focusing on 1 example.

2)i repeat, TM has been delivering results and/or performance with 4-2-3-1 quite well and i gave examples. so i have a case.
on the other hand, the same 2 striker formation can be destructive a well which i gave examples as well.

i think 4-2-3-1 has been working quite well with TM. maybe we havent scored the most number of goals, but we certainly have won many games which is wat matters the most. so i have a case, and i gave examples again but u dont wanna accept them.

i didnt say denizli would fail with TM. i said even denizlis offensive tactics can fire back. THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW PLAYING OFFENSIVE WHILE DISREGARDING UR VULNERABLE DEFENSE CAN BE CATASTROPHIC. ITS ABOUT WINNING GAMES. AND WINNING DOESNT MEAN SCORING GOALS, WINNING MEANS SCORING GOALS WHILE CONCEDING LESS OR NO GOALS!

3)Im certainly not satisfied with TMs performance, but i dont wanna mix up things and blame it on formation or blame it on the single forward struggling upfront. I said earlier wat i blame it on which was clear in the poll i made.
the aim of football is to win, not for strikers to score goals. if the cost of victory of a team is a single forward upfront struggling among 4 defenders, then we have to pay for it cos atleast we are winning. wats the use of putting up a 2nd striker and letting our strikers have it easier but then conceding goals and losing?

and u seem to either not read or nicely ignore certain comments in my posts like all those examples about perspolis and sepahan. also, i clearly said my fav formation is 4-4-2 diamond, but at this moment given the circumstances, i would totally understand and supprot daei if he opts for the 4-2-3-1 formation which he did. i see a lot of reasons why this formation was most suitable at this time for TM. if u dont, then thats ur view of football, nothing more, nothing less. i havent closed my eyes on anything, and i have provided enough examples from all around the world, including iran and TM where 4-2-3-1 has been successful in terms of results and/or performance while other formations with more than 1 striker have failed. its upto u to accept them or not. mind u, this doesnt mean 4-4-2 is a failure and 4-2-3-1 wont fail at all. it just means, there are positive and negative results for all types of formations, even in iran. so i cant accept ur argument that 4-2-3-1 has failed with TM and certainly, some coaches and experts cant either!

thanx for ur time.

[Amin_]

Yashar, it’s almost 1 am here and like you, I’ll try to keep the reply as short as possible. I also believe that everything that had to be said has been said and everything else from now on will be repetition, and frankly I don’t feel like making such a long post (ever) again lol

1) It’s not been only 3-4 games, it’s been the last few years that TM had to play this formation! Sometimes when you see that a certain strategy doesn’t work, as it doesn’t give you the desired results or a satisfying game performance, and has not worked for us in the past as well, one has to try another strategy! Like I said in my othr post, sometimes a coach tries a specific system for his team, they keep underperforming every time, and as a result the coach gets fired. Then comes another coach, who plays another formation with the same group of players and from their very first game under this coach you see a totally new and fresh team who plays nice football and gets results. This means that the system the previous coach (and in TM’s case, coaches) tried to implement, simply did not work for this group of players!
We’ve whitnessed over and over again that this system has not only been bad for our performance, it also has failed to bring us results (I know we won yesterday, but please read DD’s other thread, we even played worse than in Azadi, and with this performance we’ll definitely get our asses burned in the next round!).
We easily could’ve drawn or lost the match, and where would have we been standing then? Indeed, with 3-4 points from 4 games…




2) Madanchi and Kazemian have played RM and LM before, not only at their clubs but also in TM. They are good enough to fulfil defensive duties, plus bring a lot to our offense. They also have the strength and the potential to fill up gaps, run in free spaces and transfer back for their defensive role when we’ve lost the ball, and that for a great part of the match (not only 10-15 minutes like some of our other players). Anyway the most important part for me is to have a clear playmaker and 2 strikers, that’s how I see it. (I could go into this deeper, but I’m trying to keep the post as short as possible).

Transition from defence to offense doesn’t have to get any better with more midfielders! We’ve seen that with Ando/Sadeghi playing! Perhaps if we had other players, like Bagheri (from past), this could’ve worked, but with the actual players it has only gotten worse, cause they simply are not capable or not in form enough to play a role in this transition!
So again, I’m not saying this system in awful in general, as it could be working for any team if the right players are present and if the team adapts well to it (which TM hasn’t!), but not in TM!!


3) Again, I brought up Branko, simply because it’s been his system that we’re playing today and to say that when you don’t have the right tools for a certain system, don’t play it. But don’t be a wimp and play your most crucial player out of position just to have him in the starting line up and cause you’re afraid to take out other players (this is a general thing).
Please see my previous post on this point for more ,where I explained the Zandi, Qn/Branko issue deeper...

(yes, still trying my best to keep it as short as possible, I think I need a vacation after that previous post lol).


4) Again, and please try to understand this, no one of us here on this forum (ok perhaps except for Mansoor) is a (professional) analyzer, and whatever we say is nothing more than PERSONAL VIEWS!!!! It’s nothing but common sense.
So when I say something like "DAEI IS BEING LAJBAZ (btw I haven’t said that part), 4-2-3-1 HAS PROVEN TO BE A FAILURE IN TM ALL THSI WHILE!" it’s common sense that it is MY OPINION, so I don’t see the need to say that everything I've said have been MY OPINION everytime I post something, and I don’t see the need to present it in a way that people get that it is not a mathematical formula. Everyone knows that we’re just expressing opinions here on this forum and that no one of us is a professional analyzer!

I’m not saying that they should hang Daei for using this system, all what we’re doing here is having a discussion and trying to find answers to why certain things happen in our football and what is the best solution (as just TM fans who’re interested in their team).

So excuse me if my post gave the impression that I was a professional analyzer, but I am not
I’m just a simple fan with average football knowledge who loves TM and tries to find answers to certain matters.


5) Again, it’s not like the players are not familiar with other systems and would take 10 years for them to adapt to new ones! Just because a couple of players play the same system in their clubs doesn’t mean they are more comfortable playing it! Perhaps the system works for their club team and the players they have there, but it does not mean it would automatically work for TM as well if you have 8-9 players in your team who’ve played this system for a couple of games in their clubs. And like I said before, the level, players list, opponents, coaches etc are all different in club competitions!

Also, I bet that even had we had only 1 player in our current TM squad who’d been playing the 4-2-3-1 system at their club, and had we had 17 players playing 4-4-2, still we would be playing with the 4-2-3-1 system. I’m completely certain of this.


6) Believe me, I did read your post with care. You assumed that I wanted wing play, which wasn’t the case, and you kept writing how me “wanting wing play in TM” (which is not true) is dubious because it doesn't fit other formations. But like I already explained to you in the previous post, it was a wrong assumption, and in fact I was saying that currently I don’t necessarily want to have wing play in TM, because we don’t have the right tools at the moment, and more importantly, because I believe having 2 strikers and a clear playmaker would be much better.


I really didn’t feel like writing so much and tried to keep it as short as possible, so sorry if it turned out to be a long one after all.

I also hope for the same. Long live Iran, long live TM.

Inshallah that we see TM in South Africa!

[Doctor DOOM]

TM has been delivering results and/or performance with 4-2-3-1 quite well and i gave examples.

TM has been ...... "winning" with 4-2-3-1 ?

whom? lybia? panama?
THAT is the stats that supports this statement?

Do-zaari hala oftaad.
My apologies.
for a while I actually thought we ALL want TM to be BETTER than what it is.
I thought we ALL would like to set a moderately higher standards for our national team .... say for example going toe to toe with japan or korea, at least.
I wasnt aware beating lybia and zambia ( with gift-penalties ) is the ceiling of our demands.

no wonder I see the statement: "TM has been getting the results ....".
my sincere apologies for wasting everyone's time here. I, for a second, thought we'd like to keep our level ABOVE that of lybia and azerbaijan and panama.


rest assured I wont press MY demands on anyone here anymore.

I have always stated what "MY" opinion is and what "I" want from TM and what would satisfy "ME" and will not expect anyone else to follow suit.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i think we played 4-2-3-1 against bosnia and croatia as well.

u didnt expect us to beat portugal did u?
please tell me how many games 4-2-3-1 played against STRONG OPPONENTS of UR STANDARDS and wat the results were.

how many games did we play against korea, japan or any strong team of UR STANDARDS with a 4-2-3-1 formation that ur complaining?

u talk as if we have been playing all top teams and 4-2-3-1 didnt work with any of them