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The power of POSITIVITY

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    The power of POSITIVITY

    in my limited knowledge of football, I relate defensive strategies, line ups, formations, systems as negative and on the other hand, the attacking, forward looking ones as positive.

    Today, I had the pleasure of witnessing yet another triumph of positivity over negative thinking.
    If you dont take my statement wrongly, I'd even say I just enjoyed a bunch of ppl getting raped in front of a huge crowd. millions and millions.

    in TODAY's football, we dont see many teams doing what the dutch did.
    TYPICALLY, a lot of teams after going ahead in a match against a rival as powerful and even more famous and decorated than you, you close the shop, get defensive and bring in everyone behind the ball.

    But not the dutch.
    They maintained their positive system and game plan. they attacked and countered as often as they did before their goals. and strangely ( to some proponents of negative defensive football ), they actually scored MORE goals and the victory was even more emphatic and delicious.
    today, we have to rise in respect of the power of positive thinking.

    I'd say this, even if the dutch had conceded goals. becoz this is what makes you watch football games. this is what attracts more fans and wins fans who till yesterday wouldnt watch even 15 minutes of football and would rather watch racing or cricket or rugby or chess. NOT the defensive, negative football typically seen in today's stadia.


    now, why do I bring it up here in F+.
    Becoz even before the start of the game, I was thinking there's so much of a similarity between Iran in asia and the dutch in europe. relatively speaking.

    Iran in asia, much like the dutch in europe have some of the most talented players in the continent. skillful and masterful in the game.
    and sadly, Iran, like the dutch, usually find their worst enemy is their own ppl ! Iran, like the dutch in europe, have been great under-achievers in the continent. always standing below teams whose players cant hold a candle to any of the individual players Iran holds.
    And tournament after tourney, we see the dutch ( much like Iran ) self destruct and ruin their chances by their own hands.
    way too much similarity?

    hang on. there's more.
    the NATURE of the football in both countries are the same too. We, like the dutch, LOVE attacking and positive football. that's why everyone wants to score or come forward. and that's why we struggle to find reliable defenders. parallels with the dutch? you bet.

    But the dutch have always tried to stay true to their nature. and have always been among the most favored among fans due to their display. but they also, always fall prey to their usual INTERNAL SQUABBLES, INFIGHTING, DIVISIONS, PERIPHERAL AND SIDE ISSUES, .... . sounds familiar ?
    Hopefully we'll see the dutch finally overcome this potential demon and let their FOOTBALL decide their fate and not their hashiyeh and divisions outside the pitch. coz if it is dependent on their FOOTBALL only, they'd be winning everything in sight.

    I say we shd model our football after them, mainly becoz of the numerous similarities in our football. we may be a very poor distant cousin, but we ARE cousins.
    and following them is far easier and natural to our football than adopting a negative football that has absolutely NO link to our football, its nature, our inherent youth potential , .... etc.


    ------------------------------
    side note:

    this past few days have been great for me football-wise.
    first the TM got its first win and 3 points which relieved a lot of stress.
    then I relished watching Italians get raped and torn to pieces
    and finally, the dutch getting a massive win
    ( you can add one more: not seeing those english bastards in a european tourney is just too good to pass up )

    and it could get even better for me.
    if and when TM beats syria, it'd be the fourth great point in the week( read 10 days actually ).
    and if & when foolad gets promoted to IPL.
    also to see Spain get a huge win which raises their chances.
    ( would L.O.V.E. to see a holland-spain final .... with the dutch winning it though )

    it's a fine, fine week .

    #2
    van basten is like our ali daei

    -young coach
    -one of the countrys best forwards ever
    -people have a lot of mixed feelings about him, his attitude and his performance and results
    -he doesnt shy away from hashie and has problems with players like van bommel and seedorf
    -belives in young players, maybe sometimes he might even over do it?
    -he is very positive, determined and hungry like doctor doom mentioned
    -he also plays 4-2-3-1 which may look defensive and negative because of 2 DMs and 1 forward upfront but proved to be positive.....again!

    wat might get to van basten and his team is arrogance or other non football matters and generally yougner players and coaches are victims of such situations rather than the more experienced ones. always, winning something is not as difficult as maintaining it!
    Originally posted by siavasharian
    ESTEGHLAL:

    بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
    بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

    Comment


      #3
      I saw only the last 20 minutes of the game, but what I noticed is the triumph of youth and team work over an old team. The Dutch always had a good team and good set of players, but doesn't it makes you wonder why they haven't achieved much yet? I think their problem is exactly like ours and it is "hasheyeh" and of course internal problems. Dutch football is always fun to watch. lets hope they make it far.

      Comment


        #4
        hah!
        how futile an effort.

        not gonna work.

        Comment


          #5
          thats alright, i could guess ur post even before u made it, but oh well, this is a thread for public, not u and me.


          anywayz, wat matters is the decision of the coach and if he think it works or not!
          Originally posted by siavasharian
          ESTEGHLAL:

          بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
          بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

          Comment


            #6
            WOW !
            even more validation for adventurous and positive football.

            and btw, if you'd followed spain, you'd know until euro 08, they used to play with a single forward ( torres ) and at best, used to ebb & flow.
            but today, they played with TWO forwards as the coach has explained he wants to add to his team's advantage and convert on his team's midfield prowess.
            ( so what happens? they score 4 goals in a major tournament when till today they had never had a win with more than 1 goal difference in these major tourneys. tearing into the team that ousted england and was quite a formidable opponent I might add. )

            hmm .... sounds familiar ?


            -----------

            oh, but we have candy for the defensive football fans also.
            Greece is playing not w 4, but 5 defenders !
            that must sound like sweet music to some ears.

            apparently they are playing 5-4-1 !
            that must feel great, eh?

            But I guess when ur team is made up of huge players averaging nearly 6 feet and above, with absolutely no technical ability , this is the only route to make something out of ur team.

            Comment


              #7
              well, what do you know?

              the STRANGEST & most UNEXPECTED things are happening in euroe 2008.

              1- of all the strange unforeseen things: a defensive minded & negative team losing and not being able to score even a single goal !

              2- and more strange extra-ordinary things: an attacking and positive team wins and scores lots of goals !!

              wow. I never would have seen that one coming !!!
              what an unlikely set of events !

              but seriously, any more validation for what ppl talk about ?
              EXCEPTIONS aside, you play defensive game and use defense as ur main strategy, it would be obvious you'd find it hard to score.

              are there any lessons to be learnt from all this?

              Comment


                #8
                hehehe... wat has greece got to do with anything. who supported greece and its football and tactics anywayz? they play a totally defensive game. why not paly 10-0-0 then?

                agha jan, in 1 line,
                4-2-3-1 ISNT DEFENSIVE JUST BECAUSE U PLAY WITH 1 STRIKER AND 2 DMS.

                HOLLAND AND PORTUGAL BOTH PLAYED VERY ATTACKING NICE GAME AND BOTH PLAYED 4-2-3-1! surprising huh, how these 2 worldclass teams played such a defensive formation but won with scorlines like 2-0 and 3-0 respectively, that too against a team like italy!

                hala harcheghadr mikhay, to ba kalamat bazi kon, ba meslha bazi kon.

                P.S. U KNOW WATS IRONIC? THE FOOTBALL CLUB DOCTOR DOOM SUPPORTS, BARCELONA PLAYS 4-2-3-1
                Originally posted by siavasharian
                ESTEGHLAL:

                بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
                بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

                Comment


                  #9
                  Just a funny thing, Netherlands played 4-2-3-1...

                  lol, yashar beat me by seconds. Portugal too of course.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Both sides are wrong to even compare these teams to Iran(ian football).

                    When teams like Portugal or Barca play 4-2-3-1, they have the players for it to do so. Portugal has the best wings out of all the teams, Holland has great midfielders who are masters at ball distribution and transiting from defense of offense with amazing players on the sides!
                    Not to mention the above average forwards these teams have.

                    Please stop comparing these teams to Iran.
                    Persian Pride running through my veins!

                    Esteghlal for life!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      neither can u compare a defensive team like greece to iran or a team like spain with iran.

                      spain has a worldclass DM like cesc fabregas and other great midfielders who can run for 90 minutes and control the game even if they play 2 forwards upfront, not to forget worlds best GK casillas guarding their goal and a defense much stronger and more experienced than irans.

                      so u cant compare spain with iran either.

                      point is, the TM coach found 4-2-3-1 most suitable at the current situation for TM, they used it.
                      Originally posted by siavasharian
                      ESTEGHLAL:

                      بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
                      بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ok. now I understand why you guys havent realized what we are talking about.

                        your mind keeps translating the wrong things in your heads.
                        no wonder !

                        for the nth time, noone is saying 4-2-3-1 is horrible. as you so "astutely observed" ( ) both my favorite teams outside Iran play 4-2-3-1.
                        doesnt it make you question your interpretations then?

                        the most important thing that somehow is escaping your very observant minds is WE DONT HAVE A PLAYER LIKE VNR OR SNEIJDER OR MESSI OR RONALDINHO OR ....
                        now. dont say a word.
                        let this all important fact sink in.
                        give it a couple of minutes. no need to react. chew on it first.

                        next: WE DONT HAVE A SET UP AS ORGANIZED & PROFESSIONAL IN ITS PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AS THOSE COUNTRIES.
                        again. dont react.
                        just sit calmly and close ur eyes and THINK about this too.

                        once you have digested both FACTS, I am sure you will reach the same conclusion that we had reached a long time ago. without the proper development, our players arent suited for the tasks and they have shown in these years that they are finding it difficult to satisfy the requirements and duties of this formation.
                        remember lads; OUR PLAYERS.
                        nobody's talking about what Kuyt would do or what Xavi would do.
                        it is about what Kaabi would do or what shojaei would do.

                        I sincerely hope you did take ur time reading and DIGESTING the above facts and differences. so we can avoid repeating the obvious again and again.

                        ==============

                        secondly, the kind of football & players barca and holland have, they could be playing 4-5-1 and they'd still show POSITIVE football. becoz their defenders & midfielders are chosen mainly based on their .... (here's they key word now. pay attention) .... FORWARD MOVES.

                        that's why I shudder whenever barca plays tough & physical teams. and only such teams can withstand barca's attacks and mount dangerous ones of their own.
                        I have always wondered why barca doesnt hire someone like Terry, Gallas, Materazzi, Campbell, Ferdinand, Nesta, .... TOUGH, BURLY defenders who would cut you in pieces if you try attacking them.
                        All they have is a great Puyol who is more about timing and technique than tough, physical presence !
                        they have a mexican b1thcy dancer, who shd go back to mexico and take up ballroom dancing.
                        Thuram was a good move if they had hired him 3-4 years back. not now when he's too old!

                        so you see , the way these teams are made up, they reek offensive football, even if they play 5-4-1.

                        Iran's case is very different. you cant and shdnt even compare.
                        it's ridiculous to compare ando with xavi.
                        or nekunam with deco.
                        or niki with ronadinho
                        or kia with messi
                        just plain ridiculous.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          after digesting the facts, i realized:

                          1)holland scored with the same formation 3 goals against italy and buffon. we have to face UAE defense and GK. so if holland has better players than iran, so does italy have better players than UAE. its a relative thing.

                          2)again, i disgaree with our players having problem with this formation 4-2-3-1 only. for one, again i repeat, majority of TM players have been playing 4-2-3-1 in their clubs, both inside iran and outside iran in europe. the same kaabi u mentioned plays 4-2-3-1 in perspolis. both sepahan and perspolis played this formation and rocked IPL and ACL. so majority of our players have been playing 4-2-3-1 for sometime now and their teams have been successful with this formation and these players.
                          nosrati, kaabi, vaezi, bengar, aghili, hajsafi, nikbakht, khalili, nekounam, teymourian just to name a few besides the others like zare, zandi and shojaei who have played 4-2-3-1 previously in TM.
                          its not as bad as u make it sound.

                          now, after u sit for a few minutes and digest these 2 facts calmly, im sure u will reach the same conclusion some of us have long time ago.
                          Originally posted by siavasharian
                          ESTEGHLAL:

                          بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
                          بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm tired of repeating the obvious again and again.

                            IF you say our players are doing their jobs correctly in this formation, then why the hell arent we winning games against teams that have inferior players, inferior physical status and inferior systems ?

                            why do we find it hard to score goals?
                            why do we find it hard to defend even, altho' we pack our defense with 6 + 1 players. players from jordan uae, syria, kuwait, iraq, .... - all B grade asian teams - find their way through our defense with alarming regularity and we only have to thank god they dont have good goal getters !
                            and so many other "why"s .
                            I have said all this before too.
                            but I give up. coz I hate to repeat the same thing over & over.

                            as I said ;

                            you cant wake the man who PRETENDS to be asleep

                            we'll just go ahead with YOUR view.
                            our players know exactly what to do and how to do it.
                            and they are doing it exactly according to the tasks required in this formation.
                            now, if we see striker number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, .... NOT scoring goals, it is becoz they are doing what is required: not scoring.

                            we are fools to think they COULD NOT score.
                            the truth is they CAN, but REFUSE to, or they just DONT WANT to.

                            we are fools to think to advance, we'd need WINS.
                            coz the truth is 0-0 draws will do the job for us.

                            we are fools to think to win, you gotta SCORE GOALS.
                            coz the truth is as long as you dont concede, according to fifa rules, you get 3 points.


                            the TRUTH is becoz we ( ppl like me ) dont know what this formation is, we think our players arent doing their job. I thought all systems share a common goal in football: to WIN. I guess I was mistaken, coz for a win, you need to score, and to score, you need .... anyway . forget it.

                            ok. very well.

                            vassalam.

                            ==============

                            oh, btw, we also play 4-2-3-1 in our football weekends.
                            so I guess we are ( to quote you ) "not having any problems with the formation".

                            Comment


                              #15
                              why dont u quote the whole line? notice the word "having problems with 4-2-3-1 formation ONLY"

                              i gave an example before, i give it again. if i wanna race with schumacher in formula 1 and i can choose between peykan and corolla while he has his ferrari, do i have a chance to beat this guy in the first place?? NO i dont!
                              neither a corolla nor a peykan is good enough to beat a ferrari. both of them have problems. but, i did rather choose the corolla than the peykan because the corolla has less problems than the peykan inspite of still having problems.

                              now just because our team isnt getting the best results (which have a millions of reasons not just formation) with 4-2-3-1 doesnt mean our team will perform better with another formation, say 4-4-2. watever formation we play, we will have problems because iranian football lately has been having lots of problems and our players arent the best players either.
                              now, in ur opinion 4-2-3-1 is the peykan and 4-4-2 is the corolla, my opinion can be something else, TM coaches can have a different opinion.

                              vasalam!

                              P.S. im tired of repeating the obvious as well. wat u see are the reasons with TM not scoring, not performing well etc, isnt necessary wat everone else sees. ur opinion isnt the only correct one and isnt the only one which can have supporting arguments and examples. others opinions also have supporting arguments and examples and can make much more sense than urs too. nor does it mean other people are keeping their eyes shut on ur so called "facts". get used to it.
                              Originally posted by siavasharian
                              ESTEGHLAL:

                              بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
                              بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

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