Who is responsible any way ?

[zzgloo]

The difficult currant situation TM is in ,is not Ali daei's fault....niether it is of IFF,....so, what is to do ?

Ali Daei in his recent interview said...he wants the fans to be paitient,as IFF did not have a head for One and half years.......also, TM had not have decent programs.................

What does this mean ?.............

IFF is not accountable since it is new.

Ali daei is not accountable because he was invited late,and IFF had no previouse preparations.

Which all these , ( along with some fans' believe in paitience ), brings us to a question...........
what this patience mean ?
and to what extent ?
At what point, enough will be enough ?
to what point Ali Daei is not accountable ?
.................................................. .............................
Although,IFF was none existant, but the league never stoped.
The players never took vacations.
The talents kept showing up.
.................................................. ............................

although, it is best to expect a long term planning and systematic growth in Football,...but are we the only country who is in this situation ?
have we been always in real better situation ?
.................................................. ............................
It appears, while even lately established IFF had a chance to hire some one like clemente,and chose not to,......
And while it appears,by above daei's statement, and his recent three year contract, he is to stay with TM for a while.......
Perhaps it will only take , Our disqualification from WC competition, to have any change at the head coaching......
One wonders if Ali Daei, is worth such a benefit of the doubt.?
One wonders if ali daei is the correct choise for such a long term comitment from IFF ?
One wonders if , while The arab nations change coaches with slight misfortunes,( Kuwait and saudi's changed coaches in last 10 days,and bahrain not too long ago),.......is it wiser to not do so at all ?
.................................................. ..............................

1-Ali Daei, has recently taken the policy Branko used to have,toward the media, as he keeps shotting them up.......,and declares TM is doing great.,..with the addition of ,contrary to Branko, TM does not need any particular player.
2- IFF has given him total support,and he has " TOP " connections.
3-Although,he has not been in the job for long....but It does not take a ginues to see experties in formations, Subtituteing strategies,preparations,and Video analysis, and opponant avaluations.

.................................................. ................................

Are we as thirsty as other Asian Nations ,to get to the WC ?
Should 70 million Iranians be given a rain check ?, because we had late IFF Elections ?

[yashar_fasihnia]

just 1 small correction bahram jan, branko never ever talked the way ali daei did in his interviews and to public media.

[Ali Chicago]

I think all of the above, IFF, Sazeman Tarbeeyat Badani, Government, League and even past TM coaching staff are all responsible for where we are now.


People in Iran day by day seperating themselves from TM. Still many football Khoreh like you and I following team melli and day by day, majority of football fans in Iran lost hope for TM. Otherwise what can explain few thousand for Iran Zambia game or less than 40 thousand for Iran UAE game for WC qualification (game was free I beleive even). At the same time, 80K or more for PP game in middle of week day (saturday in Iran). Or I bet you SS, Pegah despite the poor SS record this year will have more fans than TM games.

Football fans in Iran are talking with their feet and eyes for the past 2.5 years after the world cup.

[Ali Chicago]

just 1 small correction bahram jan, branko never ever talked the way ali daei did in his interviews and to public media.

While it is true that Branko was a gentelman and never showed the arrogance that Daie displays most of the times, they are very similar in one aspect, they both are stubborn and it seems realities pass them by without leaving any impact (in other word) they don't learn from their past mistakes.

[Doctor DOOM]

if we want to find out who really is at fault, then we can start form the most trivial of players not doing their job right, to the system, to the player development, to the club's shortcomings, to the IFF's incompetency, to PEO's incompetency, to the lack of basic foundation & infrastructure, to the gov't's hands, to the revolution, to the culture of Iranians, to the religion, to ..... and so on.

but if we want to correct some things, we better recognize for some issues, it may be too late. for some, not so too late.

some issues can be avoided . some reversed with a little bit of hard work.

some need short term planning. some need long term ones.

many are inter-related and one has to go to the root of it to effect the correct change. some you can separate and address individually.

some you have to approach bottom to top. some, the other way around or superficially.

but we have a football that has innumerable problems, from all sides, of all sizes.

[yashar_fasihnia]

While it is true that Branko was a gentelman and never showed the arrogance that Daie displays most of the times, they are very similar in one aspect, they both are stubborn and it seems realities pass them by without leaving any impact (in other word) they don't learn from their past mistakes.

i agree with the fact that they both do appear to be lajbaz and stubborn in media, but sometimes when i look at how the media treats our coaches and players, i think maybe this is the way the coaches should treat the media as well. the media wont change, so the coaches should change if they want to survive.

i dunno, i have never been in the spotlight like those coaches to see wat they feel and how they feel, maybe indeed they have no choice but to become lajbaz, maybe they are just showing to be lajbaz, or maybe they just believe in their ideas and might appear as a mistake to one might not appear as a mistake to another.

watever it is, i hope daei tries to become more calm and tone down his voice and choice of words during interviews, the same way ghalenoi did.

[Ali Chicago]

i agree with the fact that they both do appear to be lajbaz and stubborn in media, but sometimes when i look at how the media treats our coaches and players, i think maybe this is the way the coaches should treat the media as well. the media wont change, so the coaches should change if they want to survive.
i dunno, i have never been in the spotlight like those coaches to see wat they feel and how they feel, maybe indeed they have no choice but to become lajbaz, maybe they are just showing to be lajbaz, or maybe they just believe in their ideas and might appear as a mistake to one might not appear as a mistake to another. watever it is, i hope daei tries to become more calm and tone down his voice and choice of words during interviews, the same way ghalenoi did.

Yashar Jaan;
But there is a reality out there beyond personal opinion of each of us. One can't deny the reality. Try to stand in front of a 18 wheeler truck in the highway and say, I don't beleive the truck is real. You soon find out how redicolous that idea was!!!?

I totally agree with your point about Media trying to influence the coach and at times they have to stick to their gun. But I think in case of certain coaches or even each one of us, there are times when reality doesn't agree with what we beleive in and we still repeat what we did.

I am so glad you brought up the GN example. To me he is great example of someone who constantly (so far is improving himself). Look at him the way he was when he took over the TM in 2006 and now. Did he remain the same? I beleive not. While I prefer someone like Mr. Nasser Khan Hejazi on a personal level to someone like GN by a facotr of 1000, however, I have no option but to admit, GN is a way better quick learner and a realist than Nasser Khan Hejazi.

Even on a personal note:
I am a great fan of Nasser Hejazi and respect the man a lot. He is true hero of mine since he stood with a broken shoulder in Iran's goal (since we had no more subs) in WC 78 and with a broken shoulder dove to prevent Peru from scoring the 4th goal against Iran. People who had a broken shoulder can imagine what kind of pain one will be in to stand around never mind dove on that injured shoulder. Than man is full of Ghayrat. So when he took over SS this year, it was a dream coming true to me ( I was outside Iran during his first take over of SS and never so it).

Then I saw he can't do the job in SS and despite all other issues, I didnt' try to stick to my belief and say SS has to be runied but Nasser Khan has to be at helm.

Hegel the German philosopher has a great qoute (sarcastic of course) which goes somoething like that :" Too bad, if reality doesn't agree with my theory". Now it is the story of many of us.

[Doctor DOOM]

let them treat the media like dirt, which is what they deserve.
let them curse , abuse, mistreat or ... the media and the bunch of juvenile morons who are only after raking up some controversy to sell 6 more papers.
they deserve nothing better.

but this lajbaazi is not done to MEDIA. it is done to the FOOTBALL & TM.
it has nothing to do with the media.

by insisting on the wrong players or tactics or .... they are NOT hurting the media. they are hurting our football and TM.

[zzgloo]

1-yashar e aziz says,..... Can a coach ignore the media,because they may deserve it.?

2-payman jaan says,...... the responsibilities is with great number of sources.

3-Ali e aziz says,....... it is matter of if one does not learn from mistakes,how could one hope for improvement?
.................................................. ...............................

1- Media, can not be ignored ;...as it is none of the coaches business , whether they sensationalize issues or not..............media is the only avenue a coach can communicate to the fans....hence the coach and others " MUST " comply...........Rediculeing Media, means rediculing fans.......Not being res[ponsive to the media means not being accoutnable.The head coach,is hired to answer the insiration of more than 50 million Iranians whose only fun in life ,May be this football......the head coach has absolutly no choise.....to either respond at the field with wins, or answer questions !..which with Ali daei it has been niether.

.................................................. .................................

2-Who is responsible, although may be very dynamic.....but that is not realy our problem...!!, how..............As I said in another thread, we need to only look at the issues, they way it is being looked at in Iran from fellow fans....as to them, IFF,Government, etc, etc, etc,...although influential, yet , since they have been accepted as the part of life in Iran.....they are no longer the problem !....( I read in a book, that Although life is difficult,but If we accept it to be difficult,it is no longer difficult ).....so, for Iranian fans in Iran, the Gov,IFF,inferstruture,money,facilities,etc,etc, are not the problems.
That is why, I recommand all of us, to ignore those facts as well, just like our fellow fans in Iran.....and only talk about, what can be changed....which, in our case......is " THE HEAD COACH ".................he is single most persona of TM, and single handedly,fair or unfair, is responsible party in Iranian system.
And if they can not stand the heat in the kitchen,they can get out of the kitchen.
.................................................. .....................................

3-Regarding learning from mistakes.......,No one can say, he knows it all....and if a coach has no coaching tranining, and has no experince, and does not show ginues of some kind to give a hope that he knows by nature..........can he afford not to learn / can he afford to not ask for help ? can he afford not to take the recommandations of experts ?............
Indeed, TM is no place for the in job tranining, let alone if one does not even want to learn.............they say, " AROOS " should either cook good or dance good,or be good in sex !...........with Ali Daie, we have a " Aroos " that has been dumped on us !!!
.................................................. .....................................

Saudi arabia just fired thier head coach yesterday...even though he was not so bad.............although we do not want to copy saudies, but it tells us that... for the saudies : " Failier is not an option "...I wonder if we think the same in Iran !

[gol_kuchik]

ZZ Jan,

The problem is we try to re-invent the wheel every time, and unfortunately what we come
up with is not even round.

So long as:
--IFF is controlled and its leader SELECTED in a one man contest
--So long as the line between POE and IFF is not drawn clearly and after each
game AliAbadi threatens to do this, cut this funding or add to that funding
--So long as IFF is acting as a government entity, even though it shouldn't

All else is just a side show.

Look at it this way:

Geroge Bush, arguably one of the most unpopular presidents in U.S will leave office
in a few months. Will the structure of football in U.S be impacted by that even one iota?
Now imagine (God willing) Ahmadi Nejad leaves office. Do you think AliAbadi will still
be running the show for every sports activity in Iran?

We tend to evade the most basics necessary to run a organization, starting from ACCOUNTIBILITY/TRANSPARENCY/CLEAR
DEFINITION OF RESPONSIBILITY. Then we open these threads pointing finger in every direction. Why
are we the only country (or among few losers) facing this type of issue all the time?

Now I ask you:

Who allocates IFF budget?
Where does the money (rather substantial) from FIFA goes to?
Who control T.V rights of football game?
Who negotiates coaches contract?
Who tries to organize friendlies?
Who got FIFA's assigned seats in WC 2006 but some how Iranian many fans could not even get in the stadium, while Mexican fans outnumbered us 3-1? Whatever happened to that?

Well then that's who is responsible. Of course you can blame Ali Daei, or Branko
But that's exactly what AliAbadi and everyone with monopoly on power but
no accountability wants.

[zzgloo]

The problem is we try to re-invent the wheel every time, and unfortunately what we come
up with is not even round.
Of course you can blame Ali Daei, or Branko
But that's exactly what AliAbadi and everyone with monopoly on power but
no accountability wants.

gol-kuchik aziz

I can not argue with the truth,.......But,Niether can the truth Argue with itself !
What I mean, regardless of what,the " Show ", ( our football ) must go on !
This is the whole point, most of us in foerign lands have harder time to comprehend than the ones inside Iran.
In iran....the IFF, Aliabadi, governemnt,etc,etc,...have been accepted as part of life, but out side with us,in back of our minds,we think we have an option !...............and back again in Iran, since, the show must go on, and since the system, with all its limitations have been accepted ( As there are no choices ), hence, they are not considered as responsible parties !

You may say, it is not fair to blame Daei, but I say, then who els ?
We do not want a coach who is good anywherels...we want a coach who can move this broken wheel forward !......., the job of fixing the wheel is not upon a coach,........., the job of the coach is to do a better job,than previouse coaches did with this " Broken Wheel ".

[gol_kuchik]

You may say, it is not fair to blame Daei, but I say, then who els ?
We do not want a coach who is good anywherels...we want a coach who can move this broken wheel forward !......., the job of fixing the wheel is not upon a coach,so he needs to shot up........., the job of the coach is to do a better job,than previouse coaches did with this " Broken Wheel ".

ZZ jan,

To be fair to Daei, he is doing just that, moving the broken wheel forward. It is only after
he wins, and the uninformed fan says: Oh but that game was not pretty, that he has to
speak out. I think of myself as a fair individual. To me when Daei took the job (for
whatever reason) he took a great risk as well. To be frank, even for the next round
we need a higher caliber coach than Daei. I look at what Uzbekiztan and Bahrain are
doing and it will be very rough road ahead. But first thing first. For this stage he is
delievering. The rest of broken stuff, isn't really his fault.

[zzgloo]

ZZ jan,

To be fair to Daei, he is doing just that, moving the broken wheel forward. It is only after
he wins, and the uninformed fan says: Oh but that game was not pretty, that he has to
speak out. I think of myself as a fair individual. To me when Daei took the job (for
whatever reason) he took a great risk as well. To be frank, even for the next round
we need a higher caliber coach than Daei. I look at what Uzbekiztan and Bahrain are
doing and it will be very rough road ahead. But first thing first. For this stage he is
delievering. The rest of broken stuff, isn't really his fault.

I agree...............to be exact ,....I have no chioce but to agree !
,but saying ' He is doing just that,moveing the broken wheel forward ', is not ,and can not be a correct statement....
when a coach has so many, as in our country,distractions and limitations,...the best job is to miximize the little things, HE CAN DO !
such as, bring in all avaielble talents !
such as not elianating some good players.!
such as getting advise from other experts!
such as studing the opponants,and thier limitations !

Branko, with all his antiques, did not spare any help he could put his hands on,and created a mesh ,and reletive cohesiveness.

for now, the best policy is to shot up , and wish the best for TM and daei for remaing games in round 3.........

But, we must have our " ANTENAS " up, to know what to do next.

[Ali Chicago]

I agree...............to be exact ,....I have no chioce but to agree !
,but saying ' He is doing just that,moveing the broken wheel forward ', is not ,and can not be a correct statement....
when a coach has so many, as in our country,distractions and limitations,...the best job is to miximize the little things, HE CAN DO !
such as, bring in all avaielble talents !
such as not elianating some good players.!
such as getting advise from other experts!
such as studing the opponants,and thier limitations !
Branko, with all his antiques, did not spare any help he could put his hands on,and created a mesh ,and reletive cohesiveness.
for now, the best policy is to shot up , and wish the best for TM and daei for remaing games in round 3.........
But, we must have our " ANTENAS " up, to know what to do next.

Got news for you he signed a 3 year contract, so he will be around for a while.

[Doctor DOOM]

If we really want to make changes and improve our football from the way it's run today, we HAVE to separate different issues.

we cant say we'll hold off on correcting the mistake of players who cant trap the ball, becoz our clubs dont have their own field. we cant say we cant address the needs of a pro club when we dont have enough stadiums and facilities. we cant say we cant build stadiums if our federation is incompetent . and so on.
it's a long chain of issues interconnected, from the most trivial and small things to the biggest ones.
becoz no matter at what point we try to come in, we always see another issue behind that that needs to be corrected.

( it reminds me of a proverb :
"For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. for want of a shoe, the horse was lost. for want of a horse, the rider was lost, for want of a rider, the battle was lost. for want of the battle, the kingdom was lost. All for want of a nail."
... which actually isnt always right.)

I dont think we shd look at things that way at all.

we separate matters into different categories. what CAN be changed and remedied, shd be done. irrespective of what other categories' problems, which in turn shd be addressed in parallel.

Players' problems and lacks shd be attended by themselves.
TM's problems shd be dealt with irrespective of how IFF is run.
and IFF's the same and so on.

so if we want to see who's at fault , we better separate the problems first.
we can make a list of the problems we see , no matter how small or how big. and we can get a differential diagnosis for each one.