TM & Counter-attacks

[Doctor DOOM]

Anyone can remember when and how was the last QUICK COUNTER-ATTACK we've seen in TM ?

how long back and who were involved?

I remember Kia's goal against uae was a typical one.
but have we had something like that after that one?
has it been that long ?
I think we may have had another one or two after that, but I cant remember.

[Mr.Good]

Our second goal against N. Korea in the previous qualifier was the last one I remember.

We always had many counter attack opportunities, but Our strikers can't finish. Remember Khatibi against Portugal.

[zzgloo]

Forget the counter attack.......I wonder if we can have decent passes..

.................................................. ..............................................

1- the passes are for the opponanat,as easily loseing possessions.

2- passes, do not reach fellow players, as the recepiant of the pass,must slow down,turn his head back,and go toward the pass to get it.

3-passes have no massage in them, as in european passes,the recepiant in singnaled to go to the particular direction.

4-passes,if at all, are unimmaginitive,as are just straight forward,with no cureves,no trojectory,no deceptive move to fool the defender,no fancy moves.etc,etc,

5-the passes are slow, as there is no element of surprize, or takeing advantage of time, no " ghafal giri ".

6-passes are unneccessary, as they are given to players in worse positions,just to get rid of responsibilities.

................

once again,thanks to our coach, or is it IFF's fault ?

[Nokhodi]

1998. Kia's goal against USA.

[Doctor DOOM]

so from what we all remember, our last quick counterattack goal was way back in 2005 ?
and before that, it goes to 98 ? ( although I'm sure we;ve had some in between these two.
but as far as the last one going back to 3 years back, that is not a good sign at all !

[Mr.Good]

in 1998 when Kia scored the goal against USA, Daei was center forward, he controlled the ball and gave a perfect pass for kia, and he scored after a beautiful run.

in 2005, Hashemian controlled the ball, gave a pass to Ali Karimi which he held on and took forward a bit waiting for support, then he gave a perfect pass to Nekounam which he scored, in that scene Hashemian was available also in one side and Kia was trailing nekounam.

The point is, Counter attacks need perfect and fast execution. you need high caliber players with high awareness on their surrounding. player that can't control the ball right, or play with heads down will ruin the counter attack. Basically, you need players who understand and can execute the basics of football, i.e. control, pass and shoot. lets count how many of these we have in IPL.

[Nokhodi]

Also I forgot, but 2 of our goals against Iraq in 2001 for World cup qualification were counter-attacks.

[Doctor DOOM]

I must add BOTH Iran's goals against aussies came off quick counters.
bagheri's was the result of tahami's quick run. and azizi's was his run after daei's pass. ( both in 97 )
then it was the usa match. ( 98 )
then we have nokhodi's mentions : against Iraq in 2001.
so it is obvious we USED TO use this tactics more before.
but recently we have not !
I guess, then, everyone agrees we dont score too many off counters.
why is that?
it's not as if we dont have players who can pass into spaces ( straight or diagonal long passes ).
it's also not that we dont have quick footed players.

so why arent we able to make use of quick counters ? and we rarely ( too far & in between for comfort ) score off them?

[purple_haze]

One thing in common about all those goals is Mahdavikia, when he was speedy. We have speedy players today, but none with Mehdi's intelligence and ball control. Hajsafi is the only one in the recent squad that has the potential to be another Mehdi.

[Nokhodi]

I must add BOTH Iran's goals against aussies came off quick counters.
bagheri's was the result of tahami's quick run. and azizi's was his run after daei's pass. ( both in 97 )
then it was the usa match. ( 98 )
then we have nokhodi's mentions : against Iraq in 2001.
so it is obvious we USED TO use this tactics more before.
but recently we have not !
I guess, then, everyone agrees we dont score too many off counters.
why is that?
it's not as if we dont have players who can pass into spaces ( straight or diagonal long passes ).
it's also not that we dont have quick footed players.

so why arent we able to make use of quick counters ? and we rarely ( too far & in between for comfort ) score off them?

Quite simply 2 reasons.

1) speed
2) Fitness - which I believe is the most important factor for success of a team.
I'll write more once I get home from work.

[Doctor DOOM]

actually kia was involved only in ONE of those mentioned above. the usa game.
so I cant say it's all due to kia.

and we certainly DO have quick pacey players apart from kia, like kaabi, madanchi, khatibi, kazemian ( the few occasions we called him up ) and more recently, rezaei and hajsafi.
so it cant be the lack of speedy players either.

[purple_haze]

actually kia was involved only in ONE of those mentioned above. the usa game.
so I cant say it's all due to kia.

and we certainly DO have quick pacey players apart from kia, like kaabi, madanchi, khatibi, kazemian ( the few occasions we called him up ) and more recently, rezaei and hajsafi.
so it cant be the lack of speedy players either.

Well, I may have associated him a bit too much saying all the goals, but you seem to have given him far less credit.

The Goal against USA wasn't the only one.
The second goal vs Iraq in 2001 in Tehran, Mahdavikia received a pass from Peyrovani just behind the half line and ran free for about 30 meters before setting Karimi up for an open net.

The first and 3rd goal we scored vs Korea in AC'04 were both counters and had Mehdi involved in them. The first one was Mehdi's intelligent breaking pass to Kaebi before he set Karimi up and the third one was Mehdi doing one of his trademark runs along the right flank after receiving a pass from Karimi, driving the ball about 20 m and his fast goal mouth pass which caused the Korean defender to score the own goal.

Again in AC'04 in the last game vs Bahrain, our forth goal was a counter, this time Mehdi from the left side broke free and set Daei up for the 4th goal.

As I said, maybe not all the goals, but if you look at the modern era of our football, you see Mehdi's traces in 80+ % of all our goals from counter attacks.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i think we scored a goal on counter attacks agains bosnia before the worldcup 2006 as well. the game we won 5-2, i vaguely remember hashemian controlling the ball in the middle of the field and immediately passing it to madanchi (i think) on the left who had made a run and was unmarked and i think he scored...


EDIT: here, i found the goals on youtube, check the goal in the 2:35minute:

[Doctor DOOM]

yashar jan, madanchi's goal cant be counted as a counter , at least not from what we see here. he just ran into a space.
but even if we do count it, we still arent scoring enough goals on counters.

I remember quite a lot of one-on-ones that our players waste and dont score!
but even those are not as often as they shd be.

I think we arent utilizing the speed of our players and waste too much time on lateral passing or dribbling on turn-overs.
despite the fact that we always have had speedy players available for TM.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i agree with u, we have been poor in our counters.

but madanchi, and specially khatibis goal which is the 5th one looks like a counter to me but clearly, if we had the scenes a few seconds before the goal, we could make a better judgement