Iran - kuwait ( azadi )

[Martin-Reza]

no. he is asking for anyone to come up with a reasonable explanation or view on the matter, since he tried to explain it and he could not come up with a reasonable one !
that's why he is asking others, perhaps someone would have a different view or angle on the issue that has escaped him.
that's why

I really don't think you are. Not that it is important, but maybe to understand why I'm often negative about your comments. You surely believe to know certain things, like Mobali having to be in TM or a 4-1-3-2 to be used against anything weaker than Australia. Can you seriously claim you're even considering to be wrong on anything when three national team coaches in a row don't want a player who has never attracted interest from any club stronger than Al Shabab? No, you "know" Mobali has to be in TM instead of a DM and sarcastically ask why he is not. This is just one example. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding, but that's the impression I have of you.

[Doctor DOOM]

1- somehow I dont see how iran-kuwait game is relevant to my likes or dislikes of players.

2- at the moment I'm talking about those who GOT to be tested and GOT to play and have had poor performances.
there is no escaping these.


3- now, why I like certain players is purely based on what I see them capable of.
as for the 3 coaches, .... heh, shd we be counting branko or daei when it comes to mobaali?
EZ also had 1 official game and that's it.
lets not make that as a measuring stick.

on the other hand, somehow I cant imagine a player who has played so well to be chosen as MVP of a league ( no matter what one thinks about the league, the selection is done by highly professional south american & european coaches ) suddenly transforms into a player ... oh I dont know .... who cant stop a ball, or becomes invisible for massive periods in a game, game after game, or ..... etc.

I find that a bit too hard to fathom
so I guess there are other matters involved here besides the two players' capabilities.

for example if one is constantly fighting or abusive or controversial. then I can understand why no coach would want him.
but we're not talking about niki.

[perspolees]

I do not want to jump in here, and in between MR and DD, but in my opinion every day every where in the world there are comments and suggestions made about football and line ups that are far better thatn the ones made by the alleged professional coaches. The good and real professional ones actually come out and accept plenty of thise points...

I think the substance is what matters and not the title.
...and so what if us the lil football fans that are not professionals suggest changes or formations or have beliefs!!?

That said pls remember that there are no statistically significant double blind, cross over scientific trials that could be done on a football pitch!! so to a certain extent there's got to be a certain amount of belief in the coach's knowledge

that brings this thng back and I now could understand that why Parvin and the rest of football Iran know it alls had created this " morabiye bozorg" gig in Iran cause culturally we are incapable of trusting and not questioning the likes of Daei and ivankovich but ofcourse we would not be able to do that for Hiddink!! there you go with the names!

I personally would love to see a big name coach in Iran to just show that on this ground hamashoon saro tah ye karbasan

[Hajagha]

- Zareh , for a change, had his best game, … which means, by any standard you look at it, was at best, an average game …. But, against a very impotent and weak team … which doesn’t change the fact that he has been one of our poorest performers, along with sadeghi..

I didn't read the whole post (sorry for that), I have a question, can you give me more details about "by any standard you look at it", since to my standard he was the best left back we had since Minavand era in the last three games particularly in this game.

I wanna make sure we both use the same "STANDARD".

For a change, I would consider a coach "out of his mind" if he changes Zare with the performance he had in the last three games. Of course Zare may lose his edge in next few months and then lose his position in the line up, but this is out of the contest here as it will be true for every position and player.

[Ali Chicago]

Ok, my simple point - without reading the whole book you wrote in that initial posting - was that if Daei makes a decision you don't understand, you might start considering the problem might be you not understanding, rather than Daei's decision. Hey, I managed to make my point in 3 lines - without any colored or bold parts

Your post revive the whole pre WC 2006 era all over again. People aren't stupid. They watch the game and can see how the team plays, beside winning or lossing. Russia lost 4-1 to Spain but, after watching the game it was clear it is not a bad team. The team had a bad day. Watching the three games that we won in the return leg (despite the win) is very worriesome.

I can't remember ever watching a game from Iran with so much weakness in our team against a weaker team. Funny thing was the Daie's interview after the game when he said " Kuwait came to Azadi for a vicotory". With this Kuwaiti team, short of a huge goof up by our defense or Rahmati had they plaeyed football for 4 hours they wouldn't have scored. Guess that was in part due to the genius tactical decision by Mr. Daie to have two defensive mid and those really strange subs.

Gholamnezhad in mid!!!! Khalatbari upfront as sub !!!!

Yashar while ago was criticizing fans why they don't go and watch TM games. To be honest the way our team plays, I can't blame them. After 40 something of my life for the first time, I felt the two hours in front of the TV was a total waste of time (granted it is probably due to the EURO 2008 games and its high quality, but still really boring display by our TM).

[Doctor DOOM]

reza jan, I suggest you watch the last 4 TM games concentrating on zareh.

becoz you saying he has played great or he's the best LB since minavand or ... just doesnt tally with what I saw.
neither with what majority of fans saw also.

I wish I had a day to kill so I could sit and make the stats on zareh's :
1- positive passes vs. wron ones.
2- success vs failure in blocks/interceptions
3- the number of times he was left behind or outrun.

but trust me, when I watched those games, one of the posts I really "observed" ( not merely watched ) was LB post, becoz that post has been one of the most worrying ones in TM in the past few years.
so when I say he has failed , believe me I'm not just saying it becoz I dont like his hairstyle.

bear in mind, I also put it in a larger context. if a player cant defend or do average against the syrians or kuwaitis or uae, then I know he will find life far more difficult against the next phase opponents.
that, is not just my imagination. that is logic , coz I know each japanese winger is 3 times stronger than any syrian, uae or kuwaiti winger. dont you agree ?

[Martin-Reza]

I wish I had a day to kill so I could sit and make the stats on zareh

Well, you could simply skip one of those 270 lines posting and do the stats instead...that would have 2 advantages at once

j/k

[Doctor DOOM]

hehe
these 270 lined posts take only a few minutes ( sometimes I eat or do something else alongside. cant you see the bread or cookie crumbs on the posts ? ).

watching zareh's last 4 games ( apart from the usual acts of laughter at how ridiculous the move is, or feeling sad and depressed at how tragic the situation is , or breaking a pencil at how pathetic the point is ) is equal to me starting a thread, and continue posting for approximately 27 pages, non-stop.
I dont think you'd like that.
I know I wouldnt.

[Martin-Reza]

But seriously, wouldn't that be interesting? I mean I did that for all players late 2002 for Human and your special friend Branko and it was really revealing surprising stuff I didn't expect. Best thing would be two people sitting beside each other, one watching, the other noting, but even alone it only took me about 2-2.5 hours per match.

Still today when I look at done matchstats especially on German sites I am sometimes really surprised about who actually was strongest in one-on-ones, had the highest pass accuracy etc.

Of course such numbers can't tell the whole story, but if neutrally made it really helps judging players.

Maybe I will take the time for a match next week. I don't have the last game on tape anymore, but I have the two before. But actually sitting down for some hours and finally finding out sth that either proves me wrong or sth which will be rated unimportant by anyone seeing it differently anyway is not too tempting at the moment.

[Hajagha]

You don't need to do the whole game. Just do 2 minutes before each goal Iran scored and tell me whether Zare was involved or not? You will be surprised.

Now, you trust me (or yourself).

[Mr.Good]

I noticed something today in Germany vs. Turkey that might be relevant to this discussion, if you haven't watched the game then DON'T continue reading here.


Today Lahm, the best LB in Germany got dribbled so many times by the Turkish players in germany, and one of those resulted in a goal. Can we say Lahm is a bad LB. keep in mind that Lahm is also like Zareh, a converted player from the right side and in fact is a right footer.

On the other hand, I can't not say that Lahm also scored the winning goal for Germany later.

[Doctor DOOM]

LOL.
mrgood jan, you forgot to add the pink elephant in the room:
lahm compensated for his failures in defending by playing a great offensive game, then assisting a goal , and finally topping it by scoring the winner.

now, THAT, I will accept from a defender who fails in defending.
and THAT is the pink elephant which somehow we ignore if we try to excuse horrible performances by a player who failed in BOTH defense AND even passing or ... resulting in many turn-overs, which resulted in more pressure on our team !!!!

shd we compare these two ??????


roberto carlos used to suck in defending. but by god he was a permanent fixture in whichever team he played in.
why?
coz his other attributes ( offensive game, freekicks, ... ) compensated for his bad defending.

mihailiovic used to be a horrible defender, rash and bad tempered, always getting cards. but he, too was always a permanent fixture in his clubs and yugoslavia.
why?
for one thing and one thing only: his free kicks

( speaking of which , germany's Hitzelsperger is included in his team mainly for one thing: his SHOOTING.
this is for those ppl who claimed no coach would select a player for only ONE attribute.
we just saw examples for "freekick taking" and "shooting" .
now, if a player can do both ..... ? )

[Mr.Good]

^^
I did say that he scored the winning goal (read the last sentence in my post), and I'm also aware that he played marvelously by joining the attack. If he hadn't score that final goal, would you think anyone will forget his bad defense.

anyways, aren't you the one that always bring up the fact that the defenders first priority is to defend. I'm not implying anything particular here, just wanted to point out something I noticed.

The point is, that there is much more to football, and player selection than what my narrow minded brain (compared to professional coaches) can figure.

[Doctor DOOM]

yes, my friend.
a defender's PRIORITY is defending.

if we are to choose between 2 defenders, one of which defends well and the other, attacks well, I'd go with the former ( unless we are playing very weak teams that we know there wont be much of a pressure on our defense, or in a situation of do or die that we HAVE TO score goals no matter what ).
I still stand by that.


But you were trying to justify zareh's poor games ( in BOTH defending and attacking ; D=0 , O=0 ) by bringing up Lahm's game, in which while Lahm didnt do a good job of defending, but compensated with good attacking ( lets say D=0 & O=2)

now, THAT, to me is really "reaching" and cooking up excuses by comparing the wrong things.

[Hajagha]

But you were trying to justify zareh's poor games ...

But you are more trying to sell your idea as a fact that Zare had a poor game.

There are so many others that don't agree with you. Besides, it's you that trying again to say that a defender's job is only defending, have you heard about "total football"? it came 40 years ago though.

A left and right D is set to attack in 4-2-3-1, that's why two DM are needed in this formation to cover their gap.

Think about it.