"Thank you God for creation of football"

[yashar_fasihnia]

nekounam may have some "tendencies". but then as "tendencies" go we may even see hosseini and aghili show some "tendencies".
the question is ARE THESE PLAYERS "PLAYMAKERS" ?
NO.

even gatusso, senna, engelaar, ... show these "tendencies" . afterall in a game these players also do make a few passes to create chances , but that does NOT make them "playmakers".

we NEED creative players who make things happen with passes or moves with such frequency that regular players arent capable of producing.
players like navidkia, for example.
nekounam is NOT such a player.
I've even seen ando give a couple of through passes to the forwards that were pretty nice. but does that make him a playmaker? NO.

this frequency has to be that much higher since our forwards' strike rates arent high enough and we make life difficult for ourselves by reducing their numbers also! so we need that much more chances created to score the one or couple of goals needed.
The difference is do we want to constantly supply our forwards and runners with options and passes or do we want to create a pass once every 20-25 minutes? and considering the poor strike rate of our forwards ( Henry's or VNR's are maybe 4-5 goals out of 10 chances. ours may be 1-2 out of 10 ), no wonder we have had such a drought of goals with this system!

still "off" ??

sorry, i still disagree with u.

neither aghili nor hosseini show those tendencies. nor do engelaar and gatuso. they may make a few such passes but so will andranik. let me rephrase my sentence, so u dont "misinterpret" or "misunderstand" my words.
nekounam can do to a good extent, wat pirlo does in italy which is more than wat engelaar and gattuso do for holland and italy respectively.

so no, u didnt get my point, nekounam can to a great extent do wat pirlo does. if he could do wat pirlo could do, he would be considered a worldclass player and be playing in AC milan! but ur comparing iranian players and their standards with italians and their standards. and by this, i dont mean only nekounam vs pirlo, i mean all the other 10 players who are surrounding nekounam and pirlo in their respective teams as well because their game also afeects nekounam and pirlo's game!
obviously our players will only be able to do an extent of wat the worldclass players do, otherwise they would be worldclass players themselves.

yes, we might need someone like navidkia who can do more of those passes but navidkia's defensive duties are too weak to play next to andranik infront of the 4 CBs. (if u meant navidkia for another position and not next to andranik, then thats a different argument because we are talking about the player infront of the 4 CB and assuming we are playing 4-2-3-1)
pirlo has good defensive abilities as well and makes good interceptions and tackles quite well as well which nekounam can do quite well but navidkia cant.
thats why i used the word "tendencies" when i was referring to nekounam, because nekounam can do a good amount of wat pirlo does both in offense and in defense but aghili, hosseini, engelaar and gatusso cant. in other words, nekounam's style of play in my opinion is much closer to pirlo's than someone like gatusso or engelaar or aghili or hosseini.

[Doctor DOOM]

no yashar jan, I am NOT comparing nekounam with pirlo.
( our players' DUTIES in a given formation may be the same as the europeans. in theory, we can compare the DUTIES. but we shd not compare the LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE )
I am comparing pirlo with gatusso and so on.

but to shed more light, I'll put it this way:
nekounam is NOT a playmaker like navidkia, karimi, jabbari, mobaali, shojaei, ....
I hope this much we agree. ( or do you really think nekounam is a proper playmaker? coz if ur answer is yes, then our argument is unnecessary & pointless )

this does not take away from nekounam's efficiency. but he just doesnt fit the role of a playmaker becoz his game is NOT that of one.



and I agree, these playmakers' defensive duties may be lighter ( we can say they also show "tendencies" in defending. but does that make them true DEFENSIVE mids? NO ) ... hence the need to pair them up with a player whose defensive duties are heavier.
enter Mr. Javad Nekounam, stage right. or in his absence, teymoorian.

we need THIS kind of pairing , hence all those examples.

-------------------

saying "to an extent" or "showing tendencies" is fine.
for example taghipoor is used up as a forward when his teams need an extra man. up there, he does show "some tendencies" or a forward "to some extent".
he may score a goal, even, on a header. or a kick or ... .
but does that make him a forward ?
NO.

[yashar_fasihnia]

this does not take away from nekounam's efficiency. but he just doesnt fit the role of a playmaker becoz his game is NOT that of one.



and I agree, these playmakers' defensive duties may be lighter ( we can say they also show "tendencies" in defending. but does that make them true DEFENSIVE mids? NO ) ... hence the need to pair them up with a player whose defensive duties are heavier.
enter Mr. Javad Nekounam, stage right. or in his absence, teymoorian.

we need THIS kind of pairing , hence all those examples.

i think this is the part i disagree with u. i would prefer nekounam over one of those play makers u mentioned next to andranik in the 4-2-3-1 system while u want either teymourian or nekounam next to one of those midfielders u mentioned. i guess thats the difference in our football perspectives and we cant do anything about it.

the rest, i agree with u, dont worry

[Doctor DOOM]

^ true.
not all ppl shd like the same thing.
that's why we have more than one ice cream flavor.
by the same token, we have ppl who like attacking football & some like defensive ones.

but what we face at TM, at present goes beyond the matter of one's "preferences or likes".
If we see TM can benefit from a different philosophy, albeit different from our preferences, we must be open to adopting them.

[Ali Chicago]

I dont know if everyone's noticed it but I feel the general direction of top class football ( basically, european football ) is becoming more positive after a period of negativity.

by negativity I mean teams playing too deep, more defensive oriented strategies than offensive ones, spreading the line up & formation with emphasis on defensive duties than attacking ones, even the formation 4-2-3-1 becoming prevalent with 2 def mids and ... etc.
No wonder teams like greece and Italy won major trophies, with their clear emphasis on not conceding and relying on chance or counterattacks to score.

...
I guess you shdnt underestimate the energy and drive of youth.

I think basically pro football is an entertainment industry that has to keep its tv viewing rating and draw adverstisement money. Therefore, if it aint' exciting it won't draw people to TV and less advertisement money. FIFA is trying very hard to even draw women toward football with promoting girls football (more pair of eyes, specially women who do the most shopping). So you see that football needs to remain exciting and entertaining despite the stakes for a win are very hight.

[Hajagha]

To give credit to DD jigar tala, we do have 4-1-4-1 formation ( but not 4-1-3-2) which is riskier and more fun to watch. Saying that, I love to have Nekonam-Jabari-Shojaei in the midfield, we may get crushed, but I am sure we entertain more as well.

By the way, you (DD) can not refuse a formation because we are Iran and do not have quality players since we compete with the same quality teams as well. Besides, your argument as more forward means more goals is useless when you don't provide goal opportunities which come from midfielders.

Please write less if you want me to read them. thanks.

Cheers,

[Doctor DOOM]

To give credit to DD jigar tala, we do have 4-1-4-1 formation ( but not 4-1-3-2) which is riskier and more fun to watch. Saying that, I love to have Nekonam-Jabari-Shojaei in the midfield, we may get crushed, but I am sure we entertain more as well.
By the way, you (DD) can not refuse a formation because we are Iran and do not have quality players since we compete with the same quality teams as well. Besides, your argument as more forward means more goals is useless when you don't provide goal opportunities which come from midfielders.
Please write less if you want me to read them. thanks.
Cheers,

ok. telegraphic version:

1- how does "nekunam behind shojaei and jabbari" mean getting crushed?
we have the required def mid who stands in front of back 4
we also have two energetic mids who can create chances.
in one stroke we deal with defensive as well as offensive needs of the team.


2- Not if we have a creative midfielder who can consistently supply balls to the forwards
something that has been lacking at TM becoz we take up the slot for this creative mid with yet another def mid !