Parameters for TM call

[yashar_fasihnia]

the issue that concerns me is khatibi's call.

i dont see any reason why khatibi should be invited.
1)if daei didnt wanna invite UAE based players like madanchi and kazemian (assuming mobali's case is personal with daei or mobali is not good enough for TM or mobali has lot of competition for TM or watever), but wat about khatibi?
he too plays in the UAE and he wasnt appreciated as much the likes of madanchi, kazemian, mobali or even enayati and samereh were.

2)if he wants to inject young blood into the team, khatibi is older than many of the players Daei left. khatibi is 29. hashemian, daei and mahdavikia are the same age or younger than him and definitely madanchi, kazemian and mobali are younger than him.

3)hasnt khatibi failed time and again with TM? so why him again and not others who have shown more promise? like amraei? or mahmoud karimi who has been scoring crucial games for sepahan in ACL!


khatibi's inclusion is really weird... and ofcourse, rahman ahmadi


as for zareh and sadeghi, i guess they play in positions where there is no single player better than the rest. so different people can have different opinions. i give benefit of the doubt to daei for these 2 players. but khatibi???

[Ali Chicago]

the issue that concerns me is khatibi's call.

i dont see any reason why khatibi should be invited.
1)if daei didnt wanna invite UAE based players like madanchi and kazemian (assuming mobali's case is personal with daei or mobali is not good enough for TM or mobali has lot of competition for TM or watever), but wat about khatibi?
he too plays in the UAE and he wasnt appreciated as much the likes of madanchi, kazemian, mobali or even enayati and samereh were.

2)if he wants to inject young blood into the team, khatibi is older than many of the players Daei left. khatibi is 29. hashemian, daei and mahdavikia are the same age or younger than him and definitely madanchi, kazemian and mobali are younger than him.

3)hasnt khatibi failed time and again with TM? so why him again and not others who have shown more promise? like amraei? or mahmoud karimi who has been scoring crucial games for sepahan in ACL!


khatibi's inclusion is really weird... and ofcourse, rahman ahmadi


as for zareh and sadeghi, i guess they play in positions where there is no single player better than the rest. so different people can have different opinions. i give benefit of the doubt to daei for these 2 players. but khatibi???

Hate to speculate, but as you know both Khatibi and Daie are from Azarbaijaan, and you know how that mentality of my tribe vs. your tribe is still in Iran. So that may have influenced the things a bit.

[zzgloo]

He was using another player because he had a Bundesliga player for this position at his service and I personally disagree with his decision to bench him. There isn't a similar alternative for leftbeck and considering the level of leftbacks we have Zare has proven himself game after game as well.

With all due respect for Payman e aziz.....I also believe Zare has been at least Adequate.......
Although, the wish for ,all in one, ( fast ,attacking,strong defensive minded )left back remains alive.....but left back is not the only possition we do not have the ideal player.....
and we seem to be forgiveing kabie's defensive lapses,because of his once in a while offensive thrusts......
Considering we admit we have not had the ideal player for that position
and considering we have to compromise.....
Is it better to train some one for that position ? or is it better to use some one who has not shown any particular weakness,compaire to the other side, who also has extremely valueble experince through ,WCQ s,and WC ?
He has been as solid as kabei,on the left,defensively, if not more solid...and he is participateing more often on offense these days...and he is not too bad in that departement either.....
One more unscientific reason : ...he looks smart !, and seems to be improveing too !

[Martin-Reza]

Dr. Doom, why didn't you quote the whole sentence? It's not quite proper discussing cutting of half of the sentence in order to distort the meaning. So I guess we'll leave it like you said.

zzgloo jan, you're absolutely right. Trying only makes sense if a promising alternative is existing. You also don't try the waterboy as goalkeeper just because the best available keeper is not playing in world class level.

[BehzadB]

kaabi has been used as RB in many teams.
and you forget, kaabi's case has been proven game after game.
there is no doubt about kaabi's abilities.
there IS a gigantic question mark over zareh's however.

but also this: when kaabi was NOT in form, GN rightfully used another player as RB.
why?
becoz he didnt care about the player's "name", when his form doesnt justify his presence.

that right there, your rating of those players you talk about up there are a perfect example of what I have been trying to tell you..

GN didn't bench Kaabi because he wasn't in form, GN would have been practically stupid not to use Kia over Kaabi at RB..

you take Kaabi and Kia to Frankfurt or Hamburg and ask the coaching staff to pick a RB from between the two guys.. most likely you'll get a laughter from them..

Kia was and Is 10 times the right back that kaabi will ever be.. one has kept jobs in Bundesliga for years from a young age.. and the other moves from Al Crapy of Quatar to a half season with PP, with a 6 months hair style/ beauty lessons in England, in between..

BUT YET, in your opinion, the reason Kaabi was benched in AFC games was because he wasn't in form, and not because GN's other option was Bundesliga proven Mahdavi Kia.. all matter of opinion. .right?

You would actually take Kaabi (in form) at RB instead of Kia, and you complain why Daie invites Zareh???

remember, I am not saying Zareh is great or even good.. I just don't see him to be as horrible as you see him.. to me our best LB, right now, is Zandi, as a matter of opinion.... and until I see someone that I think is better, that would remain to be my opinion..

selection of players is ultimately a matter of opinion.

[mehdy]

We should bring up a new player asap.

K,Rahmati,Ebrahim Sadeghi,Mojtaba Shiri are already growing up enough, and it is a peak now.

Do u remember defeat 4-0 against Mexico after WC match?

----------------Rahmati
----------Hosseini---Kameli
-E.Sadeghi-------------------Sadeghi
---------------Nekounam
-------Mobali-----------Zandi
---------------Shojaei
-------Rajabzadeh-----Kazemian

I want to see the team that can defeat Mexico!!!

So we don't need such a Peak players...

We should succeed in WC 2010!!


Sattar Zare is not a bad palyer,only for defense....but not a best selection for our Left side.He cannot easily kick centering by the left foot.

If we aim at South Africa, it is foolish that it gives preferential treatment
to the player who faced the peak.

[Doctor DOOM]

Ok, you guys are opening too many fronts for one to answer, and most of these fronts are mere distractions from the main topic.

For example the kaabi-kia-AC07 can be discussed in another thread. Coz I could say GN himself came and said he was not satisfied with kaabi’s performance, hence the decision to replace him.
And it made sense coz if kaabi was in form, GN could have pushed kia up and use both of them, rather than just one.
Two aces are better than one. 1st grade logic. not very "stupid" now, is it ?
But this needs a different thread and not here.

The main thrust of my posts were why our coach does not want to try different players for a post that MANY ppl, more than those with opposite view, admit is our weakest, more vulnerable and has been weak in recent games as well.
Why in a selection of 31 names we see only one name for the LB ( who doesn’t even play LB in his club ) while we see 4 GK’s when rahmati’s been doing great.

Coz if his reason for calling up 4 GK’s is to … ahem …. “test the options”, then why the f**k we don’t see the same attitude for the post that has been FAR WEAKER than the GK post?

And it’s not restricted to zareh. Sadeghi also is another selection that is very much controversial given his recent form and displays which were pathetic. ( now some ppl can claim “X has been good or great” all they want. But it’s there in the videos and we all have seen them ) while other players, who would be 10 times more efficient and benefitial to the team than sadeghi, have been ignored.

I’m talking about double standards.


If his view is players who play in uae shd be warned and punished for playing there, then my point is:
1- why the hell did you, yourself play there?
2- why the hell did you call shojaei and start with him?
3- why the hell did you call khatibi ?

yet another double standard.


These are all questions about the kind of “parameters” used to choose X and not Y in TM
This is the topic.
-----------------------

but in the end we all can say what we want.
Daei isn’t coming here to take advise or get praised.
Arguing the points and repeating line after line of the same views just becoz each time a different person wants to know why one says what he says is becoming silly & tiresome.
( and this repeating the views, to the same questions from different ppl, is what is REALLY TIRESOME. So I've decided as much as I can help it, I will not repeat them. they are there in the corresponding and related threads and anyone can read them )

These are views of fans.
One may say X was good. Y will say nay.
Good.

But I guess those who insist X is/was good, know this that everytime X makes a mistake, everytime X come sup short or passes wrong or is caught or is left behind or … there are some others who are ridiculing these “claims”.

Coz while some ppl stick the individual as their priority , there are others that keep the TEAM as the top priority, even if it means criticizing heroes, legends, giants, kings, …. .

Coz while some ppl think football is one notch behind nuclear physics and it is blasphemy to question decisions and acts, others don’t see it that way, and since it is THEIR TM too ( as much as TM players, TM coach, TM managers, IFF, clubs, … ) , they see fit to question matters that boggle the mind.

[Doctor DOOM]

I'll put it very simple so ppl can understand:

If your pen that you're writing with, isnt writing well and you see smudges or gaps or ... in your writing ( and unless you refuse to accept reality and want to believe the pen is writing well ) while you're doing it leisurely , if you dont change the pen or at least try a different one especially when you want to use it for your all important exam, then ..... ummm.... there are not very complementary words to describe such a person.

[Martin-Reza]

I'll put it very simple so ppl can understand:

If your pen that you're writing with, isnt writing well and you see smudges or gaps or ... in your writing ( and unless you refuse to accept reality and want to believe the pen is writing well ) while you're doing it leisurely , if you dont change the pen or at least try a different one especially when you want to use it for your all important exam, then ..... ummm.... there are not very complementary words to describe such a person.

If your alternative is a stone a banana or a ****ing crocodile, would you test it or stick to the bad pen??? Maybe this is simple enough for other ppl to understand now .

You act as if the alternatives would be unknown until "tried". Tried for you means used in a televised TM match, that a national team coach has other ways to analyze and therefore rule out alternatives before giving them a try doesn't come to your mind apparently.

[Doctor DOOM]

banana and crocodile.
hahahaha
good one. :thumbs up:
but no biscuit. read the thread on left back.
I dont think I said lets try khamenei for LB.
these are players who , unlike zareh ( key statement here ... which somehow eludes you and a few others ... hence the repeated doubts !!!!! ) , DO PLAY THE POSITION ... and quite successfully too.

---------------------------

ليست مردان منتخب علي دايي براي رقابت*هاي غرب آسيا، مثل هميشه داراي نكات مبهم و سؤال*برانگيزي هم است كه در توصيف آن مي*توان صفحات زيادي را صرف نوشتن، براساس منطق كرد و از منظر فني پرسش*هاي فراواني در رابطه با آن مطرح نمود اما در بطن اين انتخاب مثل هميشه آن نكته*اي كه پررنگ*تر از همه اين پرسش و اشكالات فني مي*نمايد، تعلق خاطر آقاي سرمربي به تيم باشگاهي*اش است. *ر بستر اين علاقه و شيفتگي البته كه نامتعارف مي*توان به نكات ظريف و جزئيات جالبي دست يافت كه به نوعي يك معادله چند مجهولي و البته مثل هميشه بدون جواب رسيد.

مرور ليست تازه* تيم*ملي نشان مي*دهد كه علي دايي شش بازيكن از سايپاي فصل قبل، تيمي كه رهبري*اش را در دست داشت به تيم*ملي فراخوانده. رحمان احمدي، جلال حسيني، مجيد غلام*نژاد، ميلاد زنيدپور، كيانوش رحمتي و ابراهيم صادقي شش بازيكني هستند كه از سايپاي فصل گذشته به تيم*ملي دعوت شدند، تيمي كه رهبري آن را علي دايي برعهده داشت و همين كليدي*ترين نكته اين انتخاب معنادار است.

علي دايي اين شش بازيكن را در حد تيم*ملي مي*داند و سايپا فصل قبل به رتبه نازل يازدهم رسيد و پارادوكس دقيقاً همين جا شكل مي*گيرد. در شرايطي كه پرسپوليس قهرمان ليگ، چهار سهميه در تيم*ملي دارد، سپاهان سه سهميه و صبا دو سهميه، از تيم يازدهم جدول براساس چه پارامتر و چه استدلالي شش بازيكن به تيم*ملي دعوت شده*اند،

آيا واقعاً تيم يازدهم جدول تا اين اندازه غني و پرمايه است كه شش بازيكن آن در حد تيمي ملي هستند؟ روي ديگر اين معادله بي*جواب همين جا شكل مي*گيرد. اگر سايپا واقعاً تا اين اندازه غني و پرمايه بوده كه شش بازيكن آن بتوانند به تيم*ملي راه پيدا كنند، پس چرا در فصل گذشته به رتبه نازل و غيرمقبول يازدهم رسيده؟ پاسخ اين پرسش بدون ترديد برگرفته از مسايل فني است و پيكان تيز انتقادات را به سوي نيمكت و كادر فني باز مي*گرداند. آنجايي كه علي دايي قرار داشت و اين پاسخ تنها توانايي*هاي دايي را مورد ترديد قرار مي*دهند.

چرا تيمي كه سرمربي تيم*ملي را دارد و شش تن از يازده بازيكنش، ملي*پوش هستند، بايد به نيمه دوم جدول برود؟ اگر اشكال از بازيكنان است، پس چرا به تيم*ملي *فراخوانده مي*شوند. اگر بازيكنان به*راستي در اندازه تيم*ملي هستند چرا شش نفره كاري براي سايپا انجام نداده*اند؟!

[Martin-Reza]

The examples of course were exaggerated, but do you agree a coach might not have to play some players in order to rule them out in advance, although they play the position? I mean day in they out the whole TM coaching staff has nothing to do but evaluating players. They have observed players, taped their performances for review, seen them in training and training matches and probably have lots of stats on them (fitness, speed, maybe even passing accuracy and other stuff).

So obviously the likes of Asadi have been ruled out as leftbacks compared to Zare and Nosrati already before being tested. Beikzadeh seemingly did better and got two matches, after which he apparently was ruled out as well at this point of time.

[Doctor DOOM]

the answer is there in LB thread

I refuse to repeat the same thing over & over about trials, need for testing, .... etc

[Martin-Reza]

I refuse to repeat the same thing over & over

Holy shit, are you ill? That's like Karimi refusing to dribble!

[Doctor DOOM]

one thing I've noticed among some members in general as well as F+, is how they react to different matters, and how these reactions are influenced by an ulterior/major entity.

lets assume I, by myself an neutral to ( or even may like ) a player like Beigi, who is not a major name in our football.
on the other hand, I really like a major person/entity ( like coach, player, club, manager, ... ). lets assume, Dr. Z.
when the paths of these two cross, my like or dislike or support or hatred of the minor figure is dictated by what the major figure thinks/reacts about him/it.
so now, if Dr. Z supports Beigi, I'd support Beigi and fight for him and argue with others. even if Beigi doesnt perform well !!!
or if Dr. Z criticizes or fires Beigi, no matter how Beigi plays , good or bad, I will be against him and criticize him and berate him !!!

the most amusing is when a minor figure who was in good books of a major one , suddenly gets into his/its bad books. I've seen members change positions with a snap of a finger! as easy and quick as that !!!

why is that?
why shd our decisions be dictated by another person/entity's ?
dont we have our own set of standards or measuring sticks as to what we like or dislike ?
what is this dedication to the major entity that makes us copy each and every move or act of theirs ?

tomorrow I wouldnt be surprised to see some of those who hate and criticize X or Y becoz these werent in the good books of A or B, change 180 degrees if A or B calls up , hires and starts supporting X and Y.
and the reverse is true too. I'm seeing it as I speak, all over the general and F+ boards. a player who was in a team's or coach's good books, is suddenly vilified just becoz now he isnt !

there's this compulsion to defend one's major and his/its decisions & acts, to fall in line & parallel to his/its direction ... no matter if it is valid or justified or logical or not!!! as if this major person/entity can do NO WRONG !
I've seen this with personalities, clubs, teams, ... . like if you're in my club, then you're good and deserve to be at TM and ... . but if you're not, no matter how good you are, you are below the guy who is from my club! same thing with what my favorite personality ( player, coach, manager, ... ) thinks good or bad of different ppl or clubs or teams !!!
that's hilarious ... in a tragic way.

is it impossible to think for OURSELVES and have OUR OWN likes/dislikes based on what WE have seen/read/heard ... rather than what another person or club or coach says?


be khoda , nothing will happen and no bolt of lightning will strike us is , for example, being a PP die hard I say an SS player is better than a PP player and deserves to be at TM at the cost of the PP player.
or we will not melt into the ground or get hexed by 1000 witches if we like a player while our favorite major coach or manager dislikes them.
trust me.
nothing will happen.
I guarantee it. I'm still here with no bolt of lightning singing my arse.

[Ali Chicago]

Payman Jaan;

Welcome to trying to understand a super complex phenomenon called Human Being. What you are refering to is called BIASE and how pathetic in general human being problem solving is.

In the Western colleges, if you did/ or forced to take Psychology 101, it is covered extensively in the psychology text books.

After reading that chapter, then you wonder how come from such a flawed thinking and problem solving method, likes of Heisenberg, Einstein, Faraday, etc. etc. comes out. But then again,maybe those guys still suffer from the same flaws as rest of us (BIASE and POOR PROBLEM SOLVING IN GENERAL) in majority of the times, it is just here and there, they get a break or have moments of brilliance (tad better than rest of us) and solve Physics/chemistery, ... problems.