The plight of Ali Karimi

[maij]

^^^^

I don't think it is a simple option for the club to tell Ali Karimi he is not wanted without giving a good reason like his performance is not up to scratch. Karimi even played in the ventral defense position , OK ..he was no Franz Beckenbauer , but he did not do badly either...so the excuse about his standard would have been a joke.

So they had to get rid of him via the backdoor.

As for the clubs both in Iran and UAE, it is the wrong timing as most have filled their roster , I would think.

[dvader6]

^ I think karimi showed another side of his abilities by playing central def and doing it so well . come on guys, he's been far better than the likes of ss central def's who are supposed to be specialists in that post.
I think we dont give him enough credit for playing in an extremely different position that he is used to, and doing a fine job at that too.
this shows he is multi-talented and can be a coach's dream.

but I doubt he could remain in IPL. not becoz he wont have takers or teams begging for his services. only becoz as per IPL transfer rules, each team is allowed only 5 (if I'm not mistaken) inter-league transfers from other IPL teams and I am pretty sure all IPL teams (except naft abadan perhaps) filled this quota pretty quickly in the pre-season window.

on the issue of how a player can speak against the manager, who is clearly not doing a good job at the club ...especially with foolishly filling the team with attackers and mids, while forgetting the team needs defenders too (and I wont get into the sepah pasdaran crap, which is very valid, but this isnt a political forum). you cant expect him or any other player to behave like those european professionals. we dont have the set up to expect that from our players.

- we have head of tarbiat badani who bosses everyone around blatantly, and thinks he doesnt have to answer to anyone, doesnt take responsibility.
- the head of fed'n who's dropped the ball on countless occasions.
- another IFF official who brazenly belittles and puts down the families of the players (for not having seen outside Iran),
- you have managers who indulge in all sorts of politics, misdemeanor, cheating, match-fixing, ...
- we have coaches who talk all sorts of nonsense as if they are fukking mesiah's of sports, while getting into childish, immature media wars with others,
- when we have scum like alifar , the mullah, who is an official snitch/spy for the ministry of info,
- when we have the same officials selling our WC tickets to others for a bunch of dollars,
- we have brilliant players' careers ruined only becoz they went to a party,
- when we have coaches sell donated tickets through their daughters outside the stadium we're supposed to play,
- we have coaches acting like agents, taking a cut off of transfer of players,
- when we have ....
- when we have all these, and in the middle of all this mess, you cant expect a player to be a shining example of professionalism

[maij]

All over the world and specifically the civilized world or the West , a player is NOT allowed to speak against club management or coaches. If he does , he will be disciplined , usually fined and sometimes even sacked. The fines are extremely heavy in some cases.

It is NOT up to Ali Karimi to decide how many defenders , midfielders or forwards his team buys...he is an employees of EA and his job is to play in the field. ...period , no excuses , no exceptions and certainly no "Gardan Kaji" .

[dvader6]

but do you see this (below) all over the world too?

- we have head of tarbiat badani who bosses everyone around blatantly, and thinks he doesnt have to answer to anyone, doesnt take responsibility.
- the head of fed'n who's dropped the ball on countless occasions.
- another IFF official who brazenly belittles and puts down the families of the players (for not having seen outside Iran),
- you have managers who indulge in all sorts of politics, misdemeanor, cheating, match-fixing, ...
- we have coaches who talk all sorts of nonsense as if they are fukking mesiah's of sports, while getting into childish, immature media wars with others,
- when we have scum like alifar , the mullah, who is an official snitch/spy for the ministry of info,
- when we have the same officials selling our WC tickets to others for a bunch of dollars,
- we have brilliant players' careers ruined only becoz they went to a party,
- when we have coaches sell donated tickets through their daughters outside the stadium we're supposed to play,
- we have coaches acting like agents, taking a cut off of transfer of players,
- when we have ....
- when we have all these, and in the middle of all this mess, you cant expect a player to be a shining example of professionalism

why shd we hold a player to certain high standards, but suddenly forget about everything else?
if there is a standard, then it shd be for everyone. if someone can ignore it, then we better accept everyone to do so as well.

granted, it is not for the player to decide how many defenders a club shd get.
but you better admit it is not for the coach to be an agent, not for info ministry to have an official spy, not for a national team coach to sell WC tickets, not for a manager to indulge in match fixing, not .... and a 1000 more items.
what about these, then?

[maij]

but do you see this (below) all over the world too?

Should I worry if Malaysia has an Alipour or in Angola has managers who indulge in all sorts of politics ?? what has all that to do with the subject matter??

Every country has its own culture and some weird ways of doing things..but the majority , if not all , agree on one thing...punish offenders.

why shd we hold a player to certain high standards, but suddenly forget about everything else?

Because , like I said , he is employed to be a player and he HAS to achieve the high standard while playing. That is why he is paid a salary easily equivalent to 10 doctors or at least 20 university professors in Iran. He is NOT employed to be the director and if he dribbles past a few players here or there , it does not entitle him to force his thoughts on the club policies or business.....it is as simple as that .

if there is a standard, then it shd be for everyone. if someone can ignore it, then we better accept everyone to do so as well.

I am not sure what you mean by that , but standards have to be maintained for everyone.

granted, it is not for the player to decide how many defenders a club shd get.
but you better admit it is not for the coach to be an agent, not for info ministry to have an official spy, not for a national team coach to sell WC tickets, not for a manager to indulge in match fixing, not .... and a 1000 more items.
what about these, then?

Fine....but since when if a person commits a violation , a misdemeanor or an offensive and gets away with it , everyone has to follow ?? I keep hearing this cliche all the time..... BUT 2 mistakes does not make a right.

No one here is claiming that the system governing the country and its football is perfect , but the last one we need to rectify it is a guy like Ali Karimi. This player has been the source of trouble and indiscipline throughout his career , and I certainly would not go through the list of his wrong doings , so....how on earth can a guy like him be a role model ?? ..and anyway , who says that he is fighting for the people rather than his own interest?

I see a lot of ill-informed people in the football forum jumping on the bandwagon of Ali Karimi heroics....what heroics ? Did he liberate Khoramshahr ? as far as I am concerned , he put his bet supporting the previous chairman of EA an he lost the bet.

However , if he really did eat during fasting and the law in Iran incriminates that , then he should be punished for it (although sacking is excessive) ..or do you think that because Karimi is special , the law does not apply to him?

[dvader6]

- I dont see anything that is unclear in what I said.
I merely mentioned only a few infringements of the law/professionalism/call it whatever you may by everyone involved in the football structure.

in such a set up where everyone behaves totally unprofessional & amateurish at best and many acts are actually illegal, then it is ridiculous to expect a small part of this massive system to follow rules to the tee.


- all that shows the hypocritical nature of this issue and how double standards exist.
we may not be able to abolish this double standard sitting far from Iran. but by God, we are given the smarts to at least deduct double standards is not the right way to run any system.


- you recount the slogan of "everyone has to follow it" and it just makes me wonder if you are aware of how things are run in Iran. just becoz X is supposed to answer for something, it does not mean he is held accountable and is answerable. this is iran we're speaking of and anyone ought to know the absolute hypocrisy that exists there when it comes to anyone related to the government.

karimi is a trouble maker? hell yes. but it is natural that such a system will only develop such ppl. what did you expect? you put in carrots into the juicer, you get carrot juice. not whiskey.

- and on the law/punishment, ...., I must say no, I dont think karimi is special. I say that such laws are for backward ppl who have no idea of the term democracy. of course I will not agree with the root of the problem, let alone the superficial aspects of "punishment for breaking the fast". that law that says anyone who drinks or eats must be punished is the problem.

[maij]

Davoud Jan , you are making a simple case , very complicated by mixing many issues in your attempt to justify Ali Karimi's action.

Is the rule of Akhonds , hypocritical ? ...hell, Yes.
Is the society in Iran , hypocritical ?...hell, Yes.
Is "Double Standard" a common practice by the people and the government ? hell, Yes.
Do you have to be pardoned if you commit an offense , because of the reasons above? hell NO

That simple.....

If Karimi was fired because he broke a rule regarding publicly eating in Ramazn , then he should be punished according to the laws of the land. Esteel Azin , however , made a big blunder out of this issue...which I still suspect , is not the true reason for Karimi's dismissal.

If he was sacked due to his criticism of the chairman , ( which I suspect is the real reason) then he should be man enough to accept this sort of reaction. He very well knows that this would have happened anyway...Karimi is not that much of a fool.

So , very simple........

I just petty the people who are trying to convert him into a hero after this episode !!!!

[maij]

كريمي سکوت خود را شکست: تحت هيچ شرايطي نه با این آقا آشتی می کنم و نه به استيل آذين برمي گردم

4:01:00 pm - 1389/ 5/ 26 :
در تاريخ خبرگزاری فوتبال ایران پارس فوتبال دات کام
ات
كريمي سکوت خود را شکست: تحت هيچ شرايطي نه با این آقا آشتی می کنم و نه به استيل آذين برمي گردم

علي کريمي بعد از مدتی سکوت گفت: همانطور که پیش از این هم گفته ام من به تمام اعتقادات مذهبي پايبند هستم ولي احساس مي کنم چهره من در رسانه ها مخدوش شده است و به همین جهت تحت هيچ شرايطي به استيل آذين بر نمي گردم.

بازيکن استيل آدين افزود:تحت هيچ شرايطي حاضر نيستم به استيل آذين برگردم مگر اينکه آجرلو همان طور که در صدا و سيما به من تهمت زد در صدا و سيما هم از من عذرخواهي کند.
وي ادامه داد:با حسين هدايتي در اين مورد صحبت کردم و او از من خواست آرامش خود را حفظ کرده و همه چيز را به او بسپارم تا راه حلش را پيدا کند ، اما به هيچ وجه با این آقا آشتي نمي کنم.

[maij]

You Know what. ? .... regardless to Karimi's misdemeanor , if there ever was one regarding his fasting , I would totally support him against the uncivilized bordering the barbaric action by Ajerloo.

Publicly humiliating a person without proper investigation , disciplinary hearing and giving him the opportunity to defend himself is inhumane and belongs to the stone ages.......( A place where Ajerloo seems to live!)

[kami_kakashi]

[maij]

1- It is NOT Karimi's business to direct the club affairs..period..I think we have beaten this issue to death.
2- If Karimi thinks he is dealing with non-professionals , what the hell is he doing playing for n Steel Azin and getting paid something like 700 million annually ? Why did not he stay with the professional outside Iran specially in Germany?
3- A club which did not exist a few years back , is challenging for the championship of Iran....while some other clubs who have been established for over 50 years have never managed to win league. Surely , there is SOMETHING that is being done properly and professionaly in this SA organization,

Do not mix Iran with Europe. In Europe players are professional because they are guarded by the contract and they can legally expect professional behaviour from their managers hence they stay professional where as in Iran it is totally one sided. Late payment of Salary , low quality of equipment, lack of organization, low quality of personal, etc... are standard in IPL and players only choices are put up or shut up and put up or shut up as oppose to Europe where a player can sue the club based on his contract if his needs are not met.

Sure....No one can claim that Iran is even close to the European standards of professionalism...BUT then again , who forced the likes of Karimi to get involved in such unprofessional environment ?

You can not be selective in professionalism. You either believe in it and practice it or don't and if you are not a professional enough of a person , then your claims of unprofessional treatment is nothing but crocodile tear.

Ali Karimi is the flag bearer of unprofessional conduct and he should be put in the hall of fame for his misconducts on and off the field ....NOW ..he is complaining (or at least his supporters ) of unprofessional conduct by the club....... It is like this chain smoking Doctor telling you that smoking is bad for your health......... Hmmmmm ....How authentic!

[Ali Chicago]

Agha Majid;


I was away almost for a year and you still managed to keep this thread about Ali Karimi alive? Baba mashallah be hematet!!!

[maij]

Agha Majid;


I was away almost for a year and you still managed to keep this thread about Ali Karimi alive? Baba mashallah be hematet!!!

Avalan ...welcome back.....We did , well at least , I missed your valuable presence....I was loosing my touch ..but many thanks to Bahram for keeping it alive.

This thread ...!! I actually might end up writing a book about Ali Karimi.. and what better than such s thread. This is the most valuable of assets in writing such a book including events and the problems he has been though.

So,,,,,,, keep it up,

[maij]

...And Ali Karimi's saga continues unabated.

Perhaps justice has been served after Karimi was reinstated to the club following the harsh and inappropriate way that he was treated by Ajerloo. The club Chairman sacking of Karimi smelled of politics and personal vendetta more than discipline and professionalism.

Hossein Hedayati , the club owner , maintained sanity in this chaotic affair and some level-headed decision making by him allowed the rule of the law to prevail. Karimi was fines a hefty amount of US$ 40,000 , a figure which is huge in terms of Iranian football economics , but certainly dwarfed by the actual annual income of the player.

Karimi denied any wrong doing and reiterated his respect for the religion but accepted the verdict of the club disciplinary committee. Karimi is back training with his club teammates.

Despite this unpleasant event which resulted in quite a huge outcry in the football community with majority supporting the player stance, this did not please the other side of the equation. The Steel Azin Chairman resigned in protest which in itself should benefit the atmosphere in the chaotic football politics of Iran.

Perhaps it is a lesson for many that mistreatment of players and unlawful actions , will not succeed and can backfire. Karimi , like it or not , has championed this cause.

[Martin-Reza]

Maybe it's a bit of an over-interpretation, but it seemed the national team functioned better without him against China. Since his footballing skills are very much beyond doubt, I guess it would have to do with his character, unless my impression is wrong.