The plight of Ali Karimi

[Martin-Reza]

I listed many other players, so I find it amazing among them you select only Gholmanezhad and make such a claim.

Cool down, Gholamnejad didn't fit in there at all, so I objected. Why should I make such a claim about other players when nothing is wrong with you mentioning them in that context??

Anyhow, it seems there is this underlaying current by some PFDC members to undermine Karimi and his abilities. To refresh your mind, Karimi was the Asain players of the year. Something that not many Iranian player will be able to achieve in the recent and coming years.
I repeat IMO a dead Ali Karimi worth Ando, Sadeghi, Gholamnezhad combined. We just agree to disagree I guess.

I will never forget what he has done for TM and Iranian football, but that doesn't mean I have to lie about his current form and performances. I didn't see a good TM match by Karimi after 2004 and I was disappointed for years, but I can't change the facts and sadly will have to live with the fact that he will probably never be the 2004 Karimi again.

[Doctor DOOM]

I didn't see a good TM match by Karimi after 2004 ...

now, you see, I'd have taken this statement very seriously ..... had it not been for your silence on zareh's pitiful and sadeghi patheitc displays in recent games.

[maij]

you see, majid jan, when I read those words "potential", "fade out", automatically I look at sadeghi and zareh, who ARE stable TM fixtures now, and ask are THESE guys reaching the potential pertaining to the level of a NATIONAL TEAM ?

why do we hold these high standards for X and not for Y ?
why do we say "karimi fades out near the end" but we refuse to admit sadeghi just disappears totally for long periods ?
why do we turn a blind eye to utter abysmal performances for one player, but expect another to play like ronaldinho and if he doesnt, we say "he's no good , he's not TM material, he's slow, ... " ??

anyway, I'm just referring to the duality of selection and standards practiced in player selection & assessment at TM.
I dont think it is wrong to expect the same high standards that we hold against the likes of karimi, madanchi, mobaali, shirzad, mohamadi, kia, .... to be held against the likes of sadeghi and zareh too.

To be honest , Peyman jan, your obsession about Sadeghi and Zare is becoming monotonously distasteful. I am not even going to attempt to discuss those as the subject is about Ali Karimi.

I asked you a question about his performance in the league , which is normally a yardstick of a player's form , you declined to answer. I assume that you have not really followed Karimi to form an objective or a subjective opinion.

Let me tell you. Karimi in the league was less than satisfactory , hence the attempt by Qatar FC to offload him. I am not comparing him to run of-the-mill Al yousuf or al kalleh , I am comparing him to Karimi of Al Ahli or even Karimi of Bayern Munich. I am comparing him to a player that used to play in one of the world top clubs and top leagues , advocating your own words about setting high standards.

I am not sure what double standards you are talking about , but simply put, I expect much more from Karimi in form and attitude than what he has shown last season.

[maij]

Hmmm...spot the similarities of this article published today in Alborz with the thread in Football+

[KasraKhan]

I didn't see a good TM match by Karimi after 2004 ...

How about his crucial assists he had in the 2006 WCQ campaign? The 2nd goal vs Japan, and 2nd goal vs N.Korea specifically.

You didnt see Iran vs Costa Rica then before the WC.

Or the match vs Croatia where he scored the 1st goal.

Or how about ACQ where he scored both goals vs Tawian?

He also had a good game in the Quarters vs Korea in the AC. He created the best chance of the game where he dribbled 2 players and laid it off for Nekounam whose shot went just wide in extra time

And dont bring up the WC because everybody knows, as well documented by Nader Jahanfard, that Karimi was in severe pain in the WC and he shouldnt even have been playing.

[gol_kuchik]

I guess I am not following the point being made: Are those in favor of Ali Karimi in TM saying he should be granted a spot no matter what? Even if he is not physically fit? Based on what I heard Daei say about legioners today, anyone that is fit by Egypt game will be invited. That's good enough for me. Now if Karimi would start running 10-15 miles a day that would be a good start.

[kaz]

I guess I am not following the point being made: Are those in favor of Ali Karimi in TM saying he should be granted a spot no matter what? Even if he is not physically fit? Based on what I heard Daei say about legioners today, anyone that is fit by Egypt game will be invited. That's good enough for me. Now if Karimi would start running 10-15 miles a day that would be a good start.

He is fit and he wanted to come. Daei initially said that Karimi was injured when Karimi came out in the press saying he wasn't. Now Daei is saying "amade" as a term for his own usefulness so that he can say X player is not "amade" as justification for not inviting that player.

As of now, it doesn't look good for our star trio and it looks to be a personal thing. Daei has said he will invite them when they're "amade". I hope that is soon.

[KasraKhan]

I guess I am not following the point being made: Are those in favor of Ali Karimi in TM saying he should be granted a spot no matter what?

Nobody said that.

[Doctor DOOM]

majid jan, I cant help with the "monotonously distasteful" remarks on a matter that IS PERSISTING & PRESENT at TM.
the day I see there is no place for poor performers at TM, I will stop these "monotonously distasteful" remarks.
one scratches as long as the itch is felt.
once the itch or the irritation is gone, scratching WILL stop.

hell, I'd stop if I knew daei is testing 2-3 other players for the posts.
I'd stop if I knew they arent FIXED as starters at TM.
but we know daei isnt testing anyone for LB, who at least plays LB. I'm not counting testign a forward for defender or things like that.
we also know from recent history, despite their poor displays, they WILL START at TM !

--------------

as for karimi's form.
while I havent watched qatar league, hence I dont talk as if I know it, but I can certainly talk about his performances at TM's recent games.
you cannot deny that.

much like the general perception that some players are good in league and not so good at TM, like eneyati, we can expect to see the opposite also.

in the first couple of TM games, which he played, he was by far the best or among the better players in the team for us. better than many who were favored.
shd not that count for something in his favor?
afterall which situation are we talking about? isnt it ultimately how TEAM MELLI performs ?
so TEAM MELLI displays shd matter the most ?

at the risk of sounding "monotonously distasteful" , I must say zareh's league form hasnt translated to TM ( for obvious reasons that he isnt playing in the post he plays in the league !!!!! ) and neither is sadeghi.

so at TEAM MELLI are we to persist with a player who plays poorly in it, but is a star in the league?
how's that going to help TM ?
afterall isnt TM the ultimate entity we want to succeed?

when it comes to a club's ACL or league or whatever games, then the player's performance at the club shd take priority. granted.

lets not confuse the issues here, no matter how "monotonously distasteful" it may look to us now.

[Martin-Reza]

How about his crucial assists he had in the 2006 WCQ campaign? The 2nd goal vs Japan, and 2nd goal vs N.Korea specifically.
You didnt see Iran vs Costa Rica then before the WC.
Or the match vs Croatia where he scored the 1st goal.
Or how about ACQ where he scored both goals vs Tawian?
He also had a good game in the Quarters vs Korea in the AC. He created the best chance of the game where he dribbled 2 players and laid it off for Nekounam whose shot went just wide in extra time
And dont bring up the WC because everybody knows, as well documented by Nader Jahanfard, that Karimi was in severe pain in the WC and he shouldnt even have been playing.

I must say having an assist or scoring is very important, but it's not automatically a sign for a good game. 2004 all the reporters in China came to me telling me they had known Karimi was good but they hadn't known that he would be this amazing. The guy was the heart of Iran's game, unstoppable and dangerous, creative and hard-working.

Of course a player with such talent can still be effective without playing good, but he couldn't live up to the standard he had set 2004 himself a single time in the 4 years since then.

now, you see, I'd have taken this statement very seriously ..... had it not been for your silence on zareh's pitiful and sadeghi patheitc displays in recent games.

Zare did ok, especially considering the pitiful alternatives we have. We simply don't have a Zandi, Shojaei or Jabbari for leftback. Why are you so stubborn and refuse to accept this simpe fact?

[KasraKhan]

I must say having an assist or scoring is very important, but it's not automatically a sign for a good game. 2004 all the reporters in China came to me telling me they had known Karimi was good but they hadn't known that he would be this amazing. The guy was the heart of Iran's game, unstoppable and dangerous, creative and hard-working.
Of course a player with such talent can still be effective without playing good, but he couldn't live up to the standard he had set 2004 himself a single time in the 4 years since then.
?

Well of course, 2004 was Karimi's prime, the best he was and the best he will ever be. We cant expect an aging veteran to put up the same consistency and level of performances.

If that was the case, I can say that Daei was a disappointment from 2002-2006 because he did not live up to the standard he created for himself in 1998-2001

[Martin-Reza]

Well of course, 2004 was Karimi's prime, the best he was and the best he will ever be. We cant expect an aging veteran to put up the same consistency and level of performances.
If that was the case, I can say that Daei was a disappointment from 2002-2006 because he did not live up to the standard he created for himself in 1998-2001

True, but I must say unfortunately for Karimi (but fortunately for us) there are players closer to that standard now than Karimi for OM. Daei, despite being past his prime, barely had real competition. And this also goes for Zare, who Dr Doom is so obsessed of. He has the "luck" not having any strong competition so what he shows is enough to be a regular starter.

[Doctor DOOM]

Zare did ok, especially considering the pitiful alternatives we have. We simply don't have a Zandi, Shojaei or Jabbari for leftback. Why are you so stubborn and refuse to accept this simpe fact?

if zareh's (& sadeghi's , as some of you keep insisting on ) performance(s) are to be deemed "OK", then by God, karimi did magnificently in those games he played.


secondly, why is it hard for daei or X or Y to actually TRY guys like asadi or shirzad or nouri in a couple of games anyway, given how important and troublesome this post is ?
if the player these coaches insisted on isnt playing brilliantly and is actually leaving some doubts ( I'm feeling very generous today ) in minds, then why is it so bloody hard to try a couple of others in test games?
what can daei or X lose in the process?
they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. ( why is this simple fact hard for ppl to understand ? )

the WORST thing is they will play horribly ( that is "more" horribly than zareh ) and that way the coach's choices are justified and validated.

and if they ( god forbid , zaboonam laal, gooshe sheytoon kar, ... ) do slightly or more-than-slightly better than zareh, then the coach has shown great character and flexibility in eyes of everyone, has gained more respect and adoration from all around, has shown great skill in solving a problematic issue at TM, will gain much accolade and gets showered by nubile 18 yr old virgins in the streets of tehran riding triumphantly on their white stallion, .... etc.
why is this so hard to comprehend?


I'm not talking about a call up to camp and then the rudimentary striking off the name with no REAL TEST.
I'm saying we have some test games.
we have time to work on team.
this post has been TM's achille's heel for ages
even if we are sure shirzad or nouri or ... arent good, what do we have to lose in playing them in a 90 minute game?


-------


lets say zareh is the phenomenon in world football. epitome of skills and brilliance in defending and attacking and all that's in between. lets say he is nesta's and maldini's and carlos's grandfather.
dont we need a back up for him in case his hard-as-steel legs get injured?
( we all remember the fiasco of WC06 and how the best laid plans [ told you. I'm being extremely generous today ] can come unraveled by a couple injuries to main players. )
what will happed to the coach if he tries one/two of these guys in a couple of 90 minute games?
afterall doesnt he do the same with GK's mids, strikers?
and some of those posts are quite solid and safe .... nothing like the LB.

who's to say they wont deliver?
some players do well at the camp and then in official games play crap. we know who.
the reverse may hold true too.
maybe nouri or asadi or ... need to see a fraction of trust daei puts in zareh, put in them . maybe that will help them relax and play well.
afterall they HAVE BEEN playing well the whole season.
who's to guarantee they will not deliver if they play a couple of 90 minute games?

again, how difficult is it for ppl to comprehend such a simple matter ?


-----

I'd maybe understand a coach not bothering to try new faces for posts like aghili's or hosseini's or nekuonam's or ... where the players we normally use and start with are doing well and great at times.
so if a coach says I dont need to call up 2-3 alternatives to these guys, although a bit questionable ( referring to what happened to us at WC06 ) I'd not worry as much as now.
but we all know zareh is nowhere near great. he isnt even ok. yes some may say he was ok. while many others dont.
that makes him being even "OK" debatable and doubtful.
( how many are ready to say neku wasnt "OK" ? or aghili or hosseini or kaabi werent "OK" ?
NOT MANY )
hope everyone gets my drift.



=============

I'm not obsessed.
( I CAN get quite sarcastic as well, if need be. shd I ? )
I'm bothered about two players or positions that unlike other positions where we have plenty of good choices, we dont have, especially LB. and that means all the more attention shd be given to these positions to make sure no stone is left unturned.

again, it's a simple logic.
hard to NOT understand.

[Martin-Reza]

So Al Sailiya now, 8th of 10 teams in Qatar last season.

[maij]

Well ...... the sad news is getting even worse.

I am not even going to talk about Al Saliya ...cuz it is an embarrassment.