The plight of Ali Karimi

[maij]

Thanks majid jaan......
Indeed, it seems, you have accumulated very valueble insights,about persian gulf nations, thier football,and thier culture etc........., I Also hope you ,like karimi,and many others who live there, are makeing lots of money !

Let's look at it this way , Bahram jan..... I am still waiting for my first Million

Not haveing patience is ,the name of the game every where, and it is capitalism.........and more over, just like , smaller companies pay more to employees,but there is less job securities, so is with Football....
And , You were wise, to have warned him.....Karimi's agent must have told him,that this is going to be like this.....so, it is safe to say, karimi knew this was comeing to him !!!
.................................................. .....................................

You are right about this haste by professional clubs everywhere, but some are worse than other...In Persian Gulf States , it is nearly zero tolerance but mainly with coaches!

I honestly don't know what kind of advice Karimi got about his transfer to Qatar , but something that is clear to me and I truely beleive in is that the best advice comes from people who know the environment and the conditions rather than judging remotely.

I was very tempted to go into this business myself (sport agency and promotion) , but refrained from it due to many reasons one of which is lack of ethics in this field by all parties. There are all sort of shoddy business deals going behind the scene in the football transfer world.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali Jaan, like you, I used to play alot...and frankly, without arrogance, I must say, I was very good too !.........................at least good enough, to know what is good, and who has got the talent and who does not...and noticeing there is that other element..which is the intelegence of a player, and coachability .....
karimi, although,his talents are needed for TM...and we need him, but I would not call him super duper....
If you look at the high lights of his time in Bayern....he most often was man handled and lacked storng stand physics...and he is fenes kind of player....
I consider karimi,May be little better than " Noori khadayari ", but in same catagory.....
Only, recently , after comeing from bayern I have seen passes from him worthy of TM.......I had never seen, anything impresive from him other than dribbling ( no heading, no accurate shots, no speed, no great passing,etc). .....which that also has deminished...yet,his passing is getting better.
By contrast,mahdavikia,has no particular super talents either...but, he is a fighter,and he is a fast learner....which I can not say that about karimi....

If you don't mind me being frank, I think the Karimi's mistake was trying to become a German player. Magath didnt' want another Machinistic German player. He wanted a magician. They called him Magician if you recall. Karimi was supposed to become what Frank Riberi is today for Bayern.

We Iranian or for that matter third world folks when we face the more advanced Europe or America at times get overwhelmed (mostly for the right reason, technology, better system,etc. etc.).

However in Karimi's case in Bayern, Karimi tried to become another Shewyn Steeiger or Demicelis or whoever else. Magath didnt' take him there for that.

In an orchestra u need violin, Piano, viola, etc. etc. Karimi was expected of something else. Instead the kid was probably so overwhelmed with the discipline, organization, field, club that lost his self confidence and tired to become like them. We saw that he wasnt' that succesful.

I read Ando's interview after going to Bolton and how much he was in AWE. He talked about how after each game, he is given a CD that has the parts of the game that he was involved with the commentry of coaching staff. How there are hidden camers during the practice and watches players to evaluate from effort level etc. etc.

Read Bakhtiyari Zadeh's interview after WC 2006 where he said, bunch of our players when got to the field to play Mexico were all in AWE again and totally were overtaken by the whole atmosphere of TV, fans, etc. etc.

Without getting into a holy war of blaming the west for all of our problem (which of course west isn't the only cause of our problems), it is very difficult when it comes for a thrid world person dealing with the whole Western phonomenon. After being 23 years in the west, I still have to work 3 times as hard as in camparison to some white guy called Jim or something to get recognized. The point is, if Karimi didn't do great in Bayern, we have to understand it is much more than just football. Plus I am really surpised, Vahid Hashemian was in Bayern and didn't get any minutes. Even Ali Daie was in Bayren and got much much less playing time from Karimi. I am puzzled why no one get's on Daie or Hashemain's case for the so called "failure"? That is what I am talking about when I say we need to lay off karimi. He is not spiritually strong (like Daie for example Shakhseeyat ghavee nadard). We as fans need to support him for what he has, not trying to make him what he is not.
Karimi wasn't a goal scorer he is a play maker. In Arab clubs, if you don't score goals, no matter how good u are, forget it. See the case of Madanchi becomes the UAE MVP while some one like Mobali which is a playemaker is being passed on.
Of course this is my interpretation of hte events from far.

[Ali Chicago]

Let's look at it this way , Bahram jan..... I am still waiting for my first Million



You are right about this haste by professional clubs everywhere, but some are worse than other...In Persian Gulf States , it is nearly zero tolerance but mainly with coaches!

I honestly don't know what kind of advice Karimi got about his transfer to Qatar , but something that is clear to me and I truely beleive in is that the best advice comes from people who know the environment and the conditions rather than judging remotely.

I was very tempted to go into this business myself (sport agency and promotion) , but refrained from it due to many reasons one of which is lack of ethics in this field by all parties. There are all sort of shoddy business deals going behind the scene in the football transfer world.

You siad it Majid jaan as far as lock of ethics, dog eat dog world of professional sport. I witnessed it in a very very small scale for the youth soccer in US and at times, it is horrible. MAybe he is getting bad advice from Abolfazl Jallali or maybe, Fazeli or whoever he works with. Maybe he is a very short sighted person and only considers money. All of that can be true. But if Ali Karimi left alone and let him play football like he can, he is one of the top 5 players in Iran's history. Other ones I can think are some one Like Ali Parvin, Hamid Derakhshan, Hassan Rowshan, Nasser Hejazi and Gheeleech. He is in a different class than Kia, Ando, Kaabi, etc. etc. No disrespect to these players. These players each are an amazing accompolishment in their own, but Ali Karimi (football wise) and players like him are the true example of that poem (

Ta Degar mother Giti choo too farzand bezayad.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali Jan...
My motive is nothing but the support for Ali Karimi. For some reason , I also have belief in him and believe that he has still quite a bit to offer for Team Melli. If we lay off Karimi , then we have abandoned him. If we motivate him and fans demand the best from him , he will feel the requirement to improve and excel once again. OK...I am not expecting top form , but 29 or 30 years old is not exactly the end of the line for a footballer , specially a professional like Karimi.

He needs support , moral or otherwise. He needs to know that people are looking for him and that is a burden that he must take some responsibility. Abandoning him , means he feels unwanted and that is NOT exactly what we want at this stage.

No point of putting our head in the sand thinking Karimi is at top form while he isn't and he is being neglected for reasons beyond form and ability.

Totally agree with everything u said. But it is matter of perspective I guess. I Think what Ali Daie is doing right now with not inviting him with TM ( a pair of him and Shojai inhis current form or him and Mobali) will allow Ali Karimi feel like the true footballer that he can be.

So I think right now what Ali Daie is doing (not bringing him ot the TM) is doing much miuch more harm to him than Alsaleseeyeh or Qatar FC not renewing his contract.

Time will show.

[Doctor DOOM]

why is karimi suddenly being vilified and ridiculed ?
why suddenly, are ppl here and in other forums, going out of their way to put him down or belittle him or .... ??
My point is ; why now, suddenly?

you all know me for many years now and know where I stand w regards to karimi. I'm the last person to take up his cause unnecessarily.
But I'm seeing as soon as Daei showed his intentions on karimi, ppl at once took to arms and are berating and belittling him ... when 2 months back none of them were doing any such things !!!
( refer to what I wrote in the other thread about some fans always aligning their opinion with their idols, irrespective of justified or not )

If we are to criticize karimi ( and boy he does deserve some ) , we'd better do it when we notice those flaws. not when our idols suddenly turn their back on him.

since a year ago karimi was a part of qatar league and hardly ppl portrayed it as a shameful and step-down. now, he's getting the flack for it?
karimi's game was worse than what he showed at TM in recent games. but no one made a peep. now that he's fallen in the eyes of daei, suddenly we discover the flaws in his game?
some of those ppl who would oppose me when I brought up his wastefulness and sub-par performances especially in defending, now come up with the same accusations. and the irony is this that NOW, karimi is a better player in terms of defending and passing !!!!
it's very peculiar.

I'm not pointing at anyone in particular. or only at pfdc.
I see many ppl from many forums behave this way and that is very strange.

-----------------

btw, if karimi's new club is something to be ashamed about, then I wonder would we about say daei joining al shabab ( almost getting relegated or ending up near the bottom) is another shameful and disgraceful insult to our football and blame daei for such an insult?
I wonder.

[maij]

Totally agree with everything u said. But it is matter of perspective I guess. I Think what Ali Daie is doing right now with not inviting him with TM ( a pair of him and Shojai inhis current form or him and Mobali) will allow Ali Karimi feel like the true footballer that he can be.

So I think right now what Ali Daie is doing (not bringing him ot the TM) is doing much miuch more harm to him than Alsaleseeyeh or Qatar FC not renewing his contract.

Time will show.

I honestly don't know about what is going on between Daei and Karimi, perhaps there is a bit of dislike between them and some old wounds. I like to be a neutral there but in the professional world , there is no escape from the rule that everyone knows, respect for the boss.

At the end of the day , if Daei reaches the World Cup without Karimi or Kia or Hashemian , then we need to order huge tonnage of humble pies for the doubters. If he doesn't then he will certainly be crucified and the blame culture will directly relate the failure to the lack of these players in the squad ( even if the case is something different)

It is a risk that Daei is taking and I guess he knows what he is doing ( or at least I hope that). Nevertheless , if any player or players are imposed on a coach , despite his rejection of them , it means that the coach is not culpable or accountable, he is immediately indemnified.

Aragones , despite huge protests from Media and the fans, refused Rauel Gonzales , the darling of the Spanish football ( there was actually some marches in Madrid and several high level protests)....Look at what happened. Spain won the Cup and younger players made it happen.

I don't like any such scenarios. I hope that TM makes it to the World Cup with Karimi and Kia as a personal preference. But at the end of the day , the Team and the country's reputation means a million time more to me than my personal preferences of having player X or Y.

You had a nice post about the complexity of dealing with Human beings. I actually lecture in "Human factors in Aviation" and I know very well how such factors affect the behavior of people. There is no one solution for every person , some are different than others...and as you said , Karimi is different , so is Daei.

[zzgloo]

Let's look at it this way , Bahram jan..... I am still waiting for my first Million



You are right about this haste by professional clubs everywhere, but some are worse than other...In Persian Gulf States , it is nearly zero tolerance but mainly with coaches!

I honestly don't know what kind of advice Karimi got about his transfer to Qatar , but something that is clear to me and I truely beleive in is that the best advice comes from people who know the environment and the conditions rather than judging remotely.

I was very tempted to go into this business myself (sport agency and promotion) , but refrained from it due to many reasons one of which is lack of ethics in this field by all parties. There are all sort of shoddy business deals going behind the scene in the football transfer world.

I would not give up on that idea so soon , If I were you !
May be you ,yourself, need an agent to pomp you up.!...
I do have " some ", experince in Business, and I also have experince doing business in Iran as well ,......
From my point of view....If you were an " stock ", I would have invested on you !

1- You have the intelegence.
2-You have the education.
3-you have the knowledge.
4-you have the love.
5-you have the connections.
6-you have the language skills.
7-you have the technical skills.
8-you have the Ethics.
9-you have the maturity.
10-you also have the support , ( from all of us in PFDC ! at least )
11-you also have the location !
.................................................. ..................
In business, " what you may think is your negative, is acctualy your positive, if you use it as such ".
.................................................. ..........................................
this , agent business, considering the poletics,of today's of Iran...has very promissing future...as you know, and it only gets better........
The more this business grows, the more technical it gets, and the more technical it gets, the less will be based on " Chakhan-bazi ", and it will be more on substance, and referals,and know how,and ethics..
.................................................. .....................................
read this please....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/sport/s...z-agents.shtml
.................................................. ............................................
It is going to be a very lorative business for next 50 years !
And, you have the tools !!!....

[maij]

why is karimi suddenly being vilified and ridiculed ?
why suddenly, are ppl here and in other forums, going out of their way to put him down or belittle him or .... ??
My point is ; why now, suddenly?

you all know me for many years now and know where I stand w regards to karimi. I'm the last person to take up his cause unnecessarily.
But I'm seeing as soon as Daei showed his intentions on karimi, ppl at once took to arms and are berating and belittling him ... when 2 months back none of them were doing any such things !!!
( refer to what I wrote in the other thread about some fans always aligning their opinion with their idols, irrespective of justified or not )

If we are to criticize karimi ( and boy he does deserve some ) , we'd better do it when we notice those flaws. not when our idols suddenly turn their back on him.

since a year ago karimi was a part of qatar league and hardly ppl portrayed it as a shameful and step-down. now, he's getting the flack for it?
karimi's game was worse than what he showed at TM in recent games. but no one made a peep. now that he's fallen in the eyes of daei, suddenly we discover the flaws in his game?
some of those ppl who would oppose me when I brought up his wastefulness and sub-par performances especially in defending, now come up with the same accusations. and the irony is this that NOW, karimi is a better player in terms of defending and passing !!!!
it's very peculiar.

I'm not pointing at anyone in particular. or only at pfdc.
I see many ppl from many forums behave this way and that is very strange.

-----------------

btw, if karimi's new club is something to be ashamed about, then I wonder would we about say daei joining al shabab ( almost getting relegated or ending up near the bottom) is another shameful and disgraceful insult to our football and blame daei for such an insult?
I wonder.

Peyman jan.....
The reason that people do such things is because quite of a lot of them have independent minds and certain amount of intelligence. A few will follow the party lines , but many express their opinions the way they see it. Not all of their views are similar to yours and not all of their logic is same as yours , and unless the event is clearly defined , no one can be wrong.

2+2= 4 , there is no argument in that...........Karimi joining Al Saliya is either a biggest shame of football in Iran or the biggest most significant success of Ali Karimi's career. To prove the point , one needs to provide arguments...there is no 100% right answer here.

For instance , I remember that I was quite critical of Daei joining Al Shabab , not because I was an Einstein and the ones who supported him were fools. My reasoning was that Al Shabab was a struggling club at the time , someone else would have seen it from a different perspective. Simply it is the way people think and they are different.

Karimi always had the 2 extremes group of fans, the one that loathe him and the ones who worship the ground he walks on. If I remember correctly , you were hardly what I count as complimentary towards him. But using your own reasoning process...Why are YOU suddenly supporting him???


Beside , forums are not a personal duel between people and taking count of casualties. Even the most informed of people make mistakes or error of judgment.

[maij]

I would not give up on that idea so soon , If I were you !
May be you ,yourself, need an agent to pomp you up.!...
I do have " some ", experince in Business, and I also have experince doing business in Iran as well ,......
From my point of view....If you were an " stock ", I would have invested on you !

1- You have the intelegence.
2-You have the education.
3-you have the knowledge.
4-you have the love.
5-you have the connections.
6-you have the language skills.
7-you have the technical skills.
8-you have the Ethics.
9-you have the maturity.
10-you also have the support , ( from all of us in PFDC ! at least )
11-you also have the location !
.................................................. ..................
In business, " what you may think is your negative, is acctualy your positive, if you use it as such ".
.................................................. ..........................................
this , agent business, considering the poletics,of today's of Iran...has very promissing future...as you know, and it only gets better........
The more this business grows, the more technical it gets, and the more technical it gets, the less will be based on " Chakhan-bazi ", and it will be more on substance, and referals,and know how,and ethics..
.................................................. .....................................
read this please....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/sport/s...z-agents.shtml
.................................................. ............................................
It is going to be a very lorative business for next 50 years !
And, you have the tools !!!....

Bahram Jan , thank you for your kind words, man Sharmandeh...

Something that I found about about this business of sport promotion and player's agency ( and this is as recent as 8 months ago) is that you need to be aggressive and as we say in Farsi "Poost Kloft".

Trading in football is not always according to set rules and regulations as I found out. Despite FIFA's attempt to regulate it , even the western football agents who normally advocate ethics and take pride in respect for the law & discipline bend rules the way they see it to their benefit.

This requires a mind-set that I unfortunately don't have nor can I easily acquire after decades working in a tightly regulated industry where every step one follows has a rule and regulation.

Also , the connection.

The person who is controlling the TV broadcast rights in the Middle East , has been working in FIFA for many years and he gets the rights by merely having connections with the federations. He simply negotiates the rights , receive money from the TV stations , and without spending a penny himslef , he pays the Football federation minus his cut (which is quite significant of course)

I was never involved in football professionally , and to build such a reputation needs a lifetime.

However, I really wished I was karimi's agent , I could have given him a tip or two

[zzgloo]

I am puzzled why no one get's on Daie or Hashemain's case for the so called "failure"? That is what I am talking about when I say we need to lay off karimi. He is not spiritually strong (like Daie for example Shakhseeyat ghavee nadard). We as fans need to support him for what he has, not trying to make him what he is not.
Karimi wasn't a goal scorer he is a play maker. In Arab clubs, if you don't score goals, no matter how good u are, forget it. See the case of Madanchi becomes the UAE MVP while some one like Mobali which is a playemaker is being passed on.
Of course this is my interpretation of hte events from far.

Yes,I agree, we need to accept him as what he is, specialy if we need his services.........................................
But, Hashemian,kia,or even Daei, were never out hustled by others !,and thier games were divercified,and not single dimention !

[zzgloo]

Bahram Jan , thank you for your kind words, man Sharmandeh...

Something that I found about about this business of sport promotion and player's agency ( and this is as recent as 8 months ago) is that you need to be aggressive and as we say in Farsi "Poost Kloft".

Trading in football is not always according to set rules and regulations as I found out. Despite FIFA's attempt to regulate it , even the western football agents who normally advocate ethics and take pride in respect for the law & discipline bend rules the way they see it to their benefit.

This requires a mind-set that I unfortunately don't have nor can I easily acquire after decades working in a tightly regulated industry where every step one follows has a rule and regulation.

Also , the connection.

The person who is controlling the TV broadcast rights in the Middle East , has been working in FIFA for many years and he gets the rights by merely having connections with the federations. He simply negotiates the rights , receive money from the TV stations , and without spending a penny himslef , he pays the Football federation minus his cut (which is quite significant of course)

I was never involved in football professionally , and to build such a reputation needs a lifetime.

However, I really wished I was karimi's agent , I could have given him a tip or two

As you wish ;.......only you, knows you the best !
My mother used to think, all people who were " KAASEB " are kind of a crook !
........, she was wrong !......
It is possible, specialy in today's world, and specilay in western world, to be honorable,'good, and " Kaaseb "......., I am a liveing proof of that !

[maij]

As you wish ;.......only you, knows you the best !
My mother used to think, all people who were " KAASEB " are kind of a crook !
........, she was wrong !......
It is possible, specialy in today's world, and specilay in western world, to be honorable,'good, and " Kaaseb "......., I am a liveing proof of that !

Thanks for the thoughts.

You Mother , I guess , was thinking about Kaseb in Iran...I must say that I quite agree with her in General.

[maij]

على كريمى: چاره اى نبود بايد پيشنهاد السيليه را قبول مى كردم




على كريمى با گذراندن يك فصل ناموفق در باشگاه القطر مجبور به پذيرفتن پيشنهاد تيم گمنام سيليه شد و حالا دومين فصل قراردادش با كميته بازيكنان خارجى فوتبال قطر را در اين تيم سپرى مى كند. كريمى در اولين مصاحبه پس از انتقال به سيليه در گفت و گو با روزنامه الرايه قطر اعتراف كرد كه چاره اى جز پذيرفتن اين پيشنهاد نداشته است.وى در اين خصوص گفت:بعضى از مشكلات موجب اين جدايى شد اما نمى خواهم به تفصيل در مورد آن صحبت كنم. براى من باشگاه القطر تمام شده و ديگر به آن فكر نمى كنم. حالا صفحه جديدى مقابل خودم باز كرده ام و اميدوارم در السيليه موفق شوم.من مجبور شدم از باشگاه القطر جدا شوم اما نمى خواهم در مورد آن صحبت كنم. ستاره ايرانى با تشريح شرايط خودش اظهار داشت:طبق قرارداد من دو سال بازيكن اين تيم بودم و بايد به قرارداد عمل مى كردم. پيشنهاد كردند سال دوم را در السيليه سپرى كنم و من هم پذيرفتم.خوشحالم در تيم جديدى بازى مى كنم.با توجه به شرايط من مجبور بودم اين پيشنهاد را بپذيرم. چاره ديگرى نبود، قرارداد ۲ ساله اى داشتم و از اين پيشنهاد استقبال كردم. اميدوارم روزهاى خوبى در السيليه داشته باشم.كريمى در خصوص عملكرد خودش در تيم القطر گفت:قبول دارم كه در ابتدا چندان خوب و موفق نبودم اما در دور آخر به شرايط مطلوب نزديك شدم و بازى هاى خوبى انجام دادم. تيم ما در ليگ و جام حذفى مدعى قهرمانى بود.فكر مى كنم تجربه من در القطر مثل همه تجربه هاى خارجى ديگرى كه داشتم موفق بود. بازيكن ايران باشگاه السيليه تاكيد كرد پيشنهاد خارجى مناسبى از كشور هاى ديگر داشته اما در قطر نمى توانست به تيم ديگرى برود: پيشنهاداتى داشتم اما من با كميته بازيكنان خارجى فوتبال قطر قرارداد دو ساله داشتم و بايد تا پايان سال دوم در تيم هاى قطرى بازى كنم. من به قرارداد و تعهد خودم احترام مى گذارم.

[perspolees]

As sure as teh sun across the sky Karimis skills cannot be denied!
Also witht he same confidence one could say that his lack of self confidence and desire is a fact!
At his peak he never wanted anything better than a lazy afternoon in Dubai!
This kind of mentality I do not want anywhere close to my TM...

Karimi unfortunately is an uneducated, mentally weak player with exceptional talent that needed at least an average mind!! He is way subpar in that area and his legacy is just as such!


If Daei with his strategy of keeping him away could ignite some burn in his belly to use whats left in him thenn I am all game ..but not this lazy empty, lost Karimi!

[maij]

As sure as teh sun across the sky Karimis skills cannot be denied!
Also witht he same confidence one could say that his lack of self confidence and desire is a fact!
At his peak he never wanted anything better than a lazy afternoon in Dubai!
This kind of mentality I do not want anywhere close to my TM...

Karimi unfortunately is an uneducated, mentally weak player with exceptional talent that needed at least an average mind!! He is way subpar in that area and his legacy is just as such!


If Daei with his strategy of keeping him away could ignite some burn in his belly to use whats left in him then I am all game ..but not this lazy empty, lost Karimi!

I must say that this would be a great challenge for Karimi..... Let's see if he can prove many people wrong and starts to put himself together.